On Dongles

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Zeras:

wulf3n:

Zeras:
Would you be incensed if there were male strippers at a Video Game event?

If you don't, then there's a double standard - which has been fueled by the empowerment movement ("you can be anything you want to be").

I would be incensed by the presence of strippers of any gender "hired" to perform at a Video Game event.

So would I (probably why I've never gone to one), but this example exists: the tweet of how sexist two peoples' joke/private conversation was about dongles - which seemed to be just because the two people were men - probably wouldn't have happened had it been two women making a joke about something sexual and a man overheard them talking.

It's strange that Grey and Cory titled this strip after that event, I don't see how the two events are related. given that the "dongle" issue was "loosely" a case of double standards.

I want all kinds of parties. Including with and without strippers.

wulf3n:

Zeras:

wulf3n:

I would be incensed by the presence of strippers of any gender "hired" to perform at a Video Game event.

So would I (probably why I've never gone to one), but this example exists: the tweet of how sexist two peoples' joke/private conversation was about dongles - which seemed to be just because the two people were men - probably wouldn't have happened had it been two women making a joke about something sexual and a man overheard them talking.

It's strange that Grey and Cory titled this strip after that event, I don't see how the two events are related. given that the "dongle" issue was "loosely" a case of double standards.

You use quotation marks A LOT. I mean even on "hired." Do you not think they were paid?

I'm not disagreeing with your points, however. Just noticing that. But there is SOME double standards with gender in the work places.

As for the strip, I don't think it was one of their best, not by a long shot.

ninjaRiv:

wulf3n:

Zeras:

So would I (probably why I've never gone to one), but this example exists: the tweet of how sexist two peoples' joke/private conversation was about dongles - which seemed to be just because the two people were men - probably wouldn't have happened had it been two women making a joke about something sexual and a man overheard them talking.

It's strange that Grey and Cory titled this strip after that event, I don't see how the two events are related. given that the "dongle" issue was "loosely" a case of double standards.

You use quotation marks A LOT. I mean even on "hired." Do you not think they were paid?

I do :| . In hindsight not all make sense. the "hired" probably should have been bold, I was trying to clarify that they were paid to be there, as opposed to strippers that may be attending because of their love of games.

the "dongle" one doesn't make sense either, or "loosely". Argghhh, I think my brain has broken :O

I think they had way too much fun drawing that ass because I'm having way too much fun looking at it, dayum.

Loop Stricken:

DVS BSTrD:
From this perspective it looks more like Zone of Enders.

image

Also. Butts. Booty booty booty booty.

Leo says it all.

What have I just seen..

Desert Punk:

Denamic:
Bullshit.
No one is good at dwarf fortress. You can only be marginally less bad at it.

She is one of the few who actually figured out how to win...

Dwarf Fort is like Thermonuclear War. The only way to win... Is to not play at all. :P

Dwarf Fortress IS like Thermonuclear War, you always go out with a bang! Also everybody dies.

wulf3n:

Zeras:
Does that change the fact that there are different standards for male and female behavior, especially in the workplace?

Does that "fact" have any bearing on the Issue of hiring female strippers to a Video Game event?

What's the problem here? People are there to talk about games and enjoy themselves and considering around 90-95% of the crowd are men, it fits perfectly.
Hell, even in the comic Erin is the only obvious woman there :P

Grey Carter:
On Dongles

It really does.

Read Full Article

You are making it very hard to not change my avatar.

Aaron Sylvester:

wulf3n:

Zeras:
Does that change the fact that there are different standards for male and female behavior, especially in the workplace?

Does that "fact" have any bearing on the Issue of hiring female strippers to a Video Game event?

What's the problem here? People are there to talk about games and enjoy themselves and considering around 90-95% of the crowd are men, it fits perfectly.

Because it's a video game developers conference, what does party music and strippers have to do with that?

If the audience wanted to go to a strip club/night club, fine, go to a club, but keep the video game developers conference as a conference of video game developers conferring about video game development.

edit: And now you've raised a chicken or the egg style dilemma. Is it ok to have strippers because there aren't many female developers, or are the few female developers because of this type of attitude.

Muspelheim:
"Remember, folks. Adamantine is fun. Adamantine is useful. Adamantine is not worth it!"

"...Who hired the clowns? WHY ON ARMOK'S BLOOD-SOAKED GREEN EARTH WOULD SOMEONE HIRE CLOWNS!?"

Kalezian:
LIES, DAMNED LIES AND STATISTICS!

No person is good at dwarf fortress!

everyone loses, it all ends in tears, elephants, cheese, renditions of cheese, miasma and magma.

And aquifers, and giant robots, and Cthulhu, and dead babies... And don't forget that masterwork obsidian statue of our mayor... Which may or may not contain the mayor. (<.<) (>.>) (<.<)

To be fair though, just lasting a few years can be seen as an accomplishment. It means you are doing something right. Which of course means that you are playing it wrong.

wulf3n:

Aaron Sylvester:

wulf3n:

Does that "fact" have any bearing on the Issue of hiring female strippers to a Video Game event?

What's the problem here? People are there to talk about games and enjoy themselves and considering around 90-95% of the crowd are men, it fits perfectly.

Because it's a video game developers conference, what does party music and strippers have to do with that?

If the audience wanted to go to a strip club/night club, fine, go to a club, but keep the video game developers conference as a conference of video game developers conferring about video game development.

edit: And now you've raised a chicken or the egg style dilemma. Is it ok to have strippers because there aren't many female developers, or are the few female developers because of this type of attitude.

I wasn't there so if they were genuinely STRIPPERS stripping their clothes off down to thongs/breasts then we have a problem because would be completely inappropriate.

However if they were nothing more than dancing girls in sexy clothing then that is more than fine, they're just there to dance and put on a show. The word "stripper" seems to be getting tossed around rather lazily in this thread, it makes me think people know what an actual stripper is and what an actual stripper does :S

edit: Yup, digging up more info on this incident, here we go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/03/27/really-igda-party-at-gdc-brings-on-the-female-dancers/
Strippers my ass, just TWO dancers. However it seems that enough people complained about that so the IGDA won't be doing it again. I can see that it was inappropriate, this wasn't just some typical gaming convention/party. Fair enough.

The fact that it made the female co-chair of IGDA's Women In Games Group step down is HILARIOUS though, so that's all it takes to make a feminist run away? Talk about over-emotional :P

The irony of a fanservice comic about a sexist or at least inappropriate situation is staggering.
Not that I mind, the context is just hypocritical and something that I don't respect.

That's assuming the wonder twins writing and drawing this thing are against "sexism" in gaming, which has so far been my impression.

erttheking:
You know, as an American I might get called a prude for this, but there's a time and a place for stuff like this. This wasn't one of them.

That doesn't make you a prude. It's called common sense, something a worrying amount of people seem to lack when it comes to these things.
It's like you're saying, it's inappropriate, not because it's exotic dancers, strippers, performance artists or whatever you want to call them, but because it's at a place where they don't belong, at least not when it's not a pure boys club and there's a good chance people of a professional nature, be they men or women, are present and would not appreciate it.

I'm not saying I think it's inappropriate, because I don't and anyone can freely leave something they don't wish to attend, I'm just saying why it's inappropriate in terms of current views on these things.

SidheKnight:

A dongle joke is rampant chauvinism?

I'll leave this here:


Seriously, you can't possibly agree with the woman that got one of those guys fired. Fortunately the case got to 4chan and they got her fired in return.

Wow, that was a great vid. Sums up my views nicely on how pussified we've become.

If anyone stands up for my sexuality the same way people "stand up" for women on this forum, I'd kindly ask them to fuck off and worry about their own problems.

It was because there was a #1reasonwhy conference on the same day. Some of the female dev's on that panel thought it was a bit of a slap in the face to have exotic dancers at the after party.

I don't think they are that riske tbh but whatever.

*looks closer*

Wait, is it me, or does one of the strippers look like an Erin doppelganger?

Obviously the real one is there, but the other one can't possibly be Sharon.......she wouldn't be one to just devalue herself, more of a punishing work-boss sorta thing. 0,0

Still a bit dangerously close to the real Sharon.

Moonlight Butterfly:
It was because there was a #1reasonwhy conference on the same day. Some of the female dev's on that panel thought it was a bit of a slap in the face to have exotic dancers at the after party.

I don't think they are that riske tbh but whatever.

Ah yes the 1reasonwhy hash tag. A group of people predominately not in the industry, complaining about how hard it is to be a woman in an inudstry the overwhelming majority were not actually in.

Got to love professional victimhood.

Desert Punk:

rhizhim:

Desert Punk:

I was using google image search for stills, not videos! Gimme a break! :P

image
NEVAAAAAAR!

your google fu is a SHAMEFUR DISPRAY!!!!!!!!

I am sorry I have failed you oh sensei, I shall take the only honorable path available to a shamed one such as myself!

image

I have absolutely nothing to say about this topic that hasn't already been said and i know im going to get a "mark" from the admins for low content but the back and forth you guys have going about google fu is some hilarious shite and you made me laugh, this type of spontaneous, undiluted awesome is why i like the escapist forums so much and i just needed to say that :)

Catcha: - Thumbs Up! (I swear the damn catcha system is a sentient being)

Some scream SEXISM!
Some yell IGNORANCE!
Some even say MALE POWER FANTASY!
I question WHERE THE BOOTY AT!?

Andrew_C:

canadamus_prime:
So is this about that woman who got those guys fired over a dongle joke?

Its a reference to that but also to the various after parties at recent conferences (including by Mojang) where there were rather underdressed dancers, who quite obviously weren't conference attendees. Mojang's excuse was that they were hired by the venue, not them.

People need excuses for strippers now?

To every privileged straight male defending the strippers:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male strippers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

rhodo:
To every privileged straight male defending the strippers:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male strippers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

What strippers? I see no strippers involved. I see dancers are mentioned, but unless they are taking there clothes off for money, then no strippers were involved. An if this is the case, this would appear to be another case of knee jerk, hyperbolic gender-begging... The classic "oh who will think of the women" situation.

If you have to make stuff up to be angry about, its a pretty good sign that you don't really have anything to be angry about.

rhodo:
To every privileged straight male defending the strippers:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male strippers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

Imagine how silly you will feel once you find out what actually happened at the afterparty, what the "strippers" actually were, and how this comic is massively exaggerating/fabricating the scenario for giggles.

Just imagine.

Yuuki:

rhodo:
To every privileged straight male defending the strippers:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male strippers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

Imagine how silly you will feel once you find out what actually happened at the afterparty, what the "strippers" actually were, and how this comic is massively exaggerating/fabricating the scenario for giggles.

Just imagine.

I'm assuming there is more to this story then actually appears in the web comic.

matthew_lane:

rhodo:
To every privileged straight male defending the strippers:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male strippers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

What strippers? I see no strippers involved. I see dancers are mentioned, but unless they are taking there clothes off for money, then no strippers were involved. An if this is the case, this would appear to be another case of knee jerk, hyperbolic gender-begging... The classic "oh who will think of the women" situation.

If you have to make stuff up to be angry about, its a pretty good sign that you don't really have anything to be angry about.

I think a better analogy would be Chippendale dancers wearing nothing but a thong for no reason. Many people would be put off by that. No strippers involved in any case.

matthew_lane:

rhodo:
To every privileged straight male defending the strippers:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male strippers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

What strippers? I see no strippers involved. I see dancers are mentioned, but unless they are taking there clothes off for money, then no strippers were involved. An if this is the case, this would appear to be another case of knee jerk, hyperbolic gender-begging... The classic "oh who will think of the women" situation.

If you have to make stuff up to be angry about, its a pretty good sign that you don't really have anything to be angry about.

So his point is invalid because he referred to them as strippers instead of dancers? As if that makes even the tiniest difference at all and isn't a way to completely sidestep his argument.

And how dare he actually try and consider a woman's point of view on something, AMIRITE?

OlasDAlmighty:
So his point is invalid because he referred to them as strippers instead of dancers?

Yes, by definition. If i run around screaming "aliens are invading" & you point out that those are clouds & not aliens, is my point that aliens are invading now not valid on the basis of a lack of invading aliens? OF COURSE IT IS!

Why should a company not hire dancers to dance at a party? Should musical directors no longer hire dancers? What about theatre troops, should they not have dancers either... After all dancer is apparently a synonym for stripper... Hence a ballerina is now the same thing as a stripper.

OlasDAlmighty:
And how dare he actually try and consider a woman's point of view on something, AMIRITE?

Because a nonsensical hyperbolic statement is wrong no matter who says it, be they male or female.

Hey, matthew_Iane. I'm sorry, you're right. Then please consider this:

....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male dancers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Now you can understand why there was a righteous outrage at this.

rhodo:
....imagine you're a videogame developer at a videogame convention. Suddenly, a bunch of male dancers wearing only a tanga hop on the table and put their asses in front of your face, just like the girl is doing in this comic.

Except thats not what happened if you are talking about the YetiZen party.

It didn't happen at a videogame convention, it happened at a rave party sponsored by the YetiZen & not the convention: Complete with terrible dubstep noise, people pretending that dubstep noise is music & people who are not on E pretending that glow tubes are cool.

In fact the party in question was not part of the convention at all. The YetiZen party was held on Tuesday March 26 at Ruby Skye, a San Francisco nightclub.

it was not until the next night, Wednesday at the same club, a party was hosted by the con.

So again, lets put the breaks on the runaway hyperbolic train & stop talking nonsense.

matthew_lane:

Except thats not what happened if you are talking about the YetiZen party.

It didn't happen at a videogame convention, it happened at a rave party sponsored by the YetiZen & not the convention: Complete with terrible dubstep noise, people pretending that dubstep noise is music & people who are not on E pretending that glow tubes are cool.

In fact the party in question was not part of the convention at all. The YetiZen party was held on Tuesday March 26 at Ruby Skye, a San Francisco nightclub.

it was not until the next night, Wednesday at the same club, a party was hosted by the con.

So again, lets put the breaks on the runaway hyperbolic train & stop talking nonsense.

How dare you use logic and reason to rationalize the clearly despicable actions of all male game developers and lower the justified outrage of internet teenage boys, who are fighting a sacred crusade on behalf of all women!
How dare you sir, when the patriarchy is so obviously close to winning and taking over the world!

matthew_lane:

OlasDAlmighty:
So his point is invalid because he referred to them as strippers instead of dancers?

Yes, by definition. If i run around screaming "aliens are invading" & you point out that those are clouds & not aliens, is my point that aliens are invading now not valid on the basis of a lack of invading aliens? OF COURSE IT IS!

Because a nonsensical hyperbolic statement is wrong no matter who says it, be they male or female.

Its more that 'The aliens aren't invading in flying saucers, they're invading in tripods' isn't really relevant, the aliens are still invading. Whether or not the entertainers were strippers isn't terribly relevant, unless you also want to contend that there were no pole dancers or barely clothed women.

Aaron Sylvester:

wulf3n:

Aaron Sylvester:

What's the problem here? People are there to talk about games and enjoy themselves and considering around 90-95% of the crowd are men, it fits perfectly.

Because it's a video game developers conference, what does party music and strippers have to do with that?

If the audience wanted to go to a strip club/night club, fine, go to a club, but keep the video game developers conference as a conference of video game developers conferring about video game development.

edit: And now you've raised a chicken or the egg style dilemma. Is it ok to have strippers because there aren't many female developers, or are the few female developers because of this type of attitude.

I wasn't there so if they were genuinely STRIPPERS stripping their clothes off down to thongs/breasts then we have a problem because would be completely inappropriate.

However if they were nothing more than dancing girls in sexy clothing then that is more than fine, they're just there to dance and put on a show. The word "stripper" seems to be getting tossed around rather lazily in this thread, it makes me think people know what an actual stripper is and what an actual stripper does :S

edit: Yup, digging up more info on this incident, here we go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/03/27/really-igda-party-at-gdc-brings-on-the-female-dancers/
Strippers my ass, just TWO dancers. However it seems that enough people complained about that so the IGDA won't be doing it again. I can see that it was inappropriate, this wasn't just some typical gaming convention/party. Fair enough.

The fact that it made the female co-chair of IGDA's Women In Games Group step down is HILARIOUS though, so that's all it takes to make a feminist run away? Talk about over-emotional :P

Let's take a look at another industry with similar gender makeup. Most engineering disciplines are heavily male dominated, just like the video game industry. Last time I went to an Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) sectional, not once did I see any female performers, entertainers, strippers, or hired eye-candy. If you are having a professional get-together, why do you need female performers? It doesn't matter if all their clothes stay on. The simple fact you hired women for an event just because they are women is crass.

This is comedy gold for me.
It just is.

I'll post my opinion on the Donglegate and the Pole Dancer conference incidents:

Donglegate:

The woman is 100% at fault here (can't remember her name). A guy tells his friend a programming joke privately during a programming convention (The joke involves "dongles" and "forking", both programming terms in this case). A woman overhears them and feels "offended"[1] by what is essentially a "dick joke". What does she do? Tell the speakers or the organizers of the conference about this, according to her, inapropiate behaviour? Hell no! She takes a picture of them a posts it on twitter humiliating them, causing one of them to get fired.[2]

Pole Dancers:

It was inapropiate, for the following reasons:

1) It was a supposedly professional conference, and this kind of things makes them seem less serious.
2) There were both men and women present, therefore catering to only one gender's preferences[3] is discrimination.
3) So they had to either have both male and female dancers, or have none. Otherwise, it's sexism.

[1] Seriously, people get offended for the most ridiculous sh!t these days
[2] Fortunately the case got to 4chan and they did justice by posting screenshots and links of her own dick jokes from her twitter account, which got her fired. Too bad it didn't give back the other guy his job.
[3] I'm not counting gays and lesbians to keep it simple, because my point stands anyway

Is it me or did the stripper kind of look like Erin's boss?

AC10:

erttheking:
You know, as an American I might get called a prude for this, but there's a time and a place for stuff like this. This wasn't one of them.

Having dated a German, they really like to talk it up about how sexually expressive and free Europe and the like is. I'd say it is true, but not nearly to the extent they seem to have in their heads. I'd like someone to tell me how "Turn me on, Dammit! (origina: Få meg på, for faen)" is so much more free in its sex than something like American Pie. Arguably American Pie treats it's sexuality with "humor" (not that I found it that funny), but at least it was a better movie in my opinion.

In fact, visiting Germany I was expecting whores to be pouring out of brothels and naked men and women to be banging on giant posters in the streets, but none of this was the case. In fact, I'd say most people were dressed more conservatively than the average high school student at amall here. Which is good, as they seemed to actually have a sense of style :P

You have to visit Munich. Here we have old men riding naked on a three seater bicycle in the park.

OT: This is either about the inudstry meeting with the "strippers" or is about the chauvinism in the industry as a whole. I doubt it was abotu the "Dongle" incident but I can see why they chose it.

As for that little incident I think that women was way out of line with reporting it. She got a guy fired because he was telling a in no way misogynist but sexually charge joke to his friend and coworker beside him.

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