Jimquisition: Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb

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The gaming industry is in such a titanic climb right now that they're about to stall straight into a nosedive. Gamers are wising up to the crazy shit that publishers and developers are trying to get away with, and it's not going to work for very much longer.

ineedbettername:
The gaming industry is in such a titanic climb right now that they're about to stall straight into a nosedive. Gamers are wising up to the crazy shit that publishers and developers are trying to get away with, and it's not going to work for very much longer.

Oh I think it will. EA games are still selling well. Their DLC and microtransactions are selling even better.
Those big evil companies - they know us better than we know ourselves.

Adon Cabre:

It's very hard to lose a connection in California, because the internet carrier suffers the most when you decide to move onto another. I had fast internet at work, college and at home; and not to mention my cell phone.

So you're using the same short-sighted fallback as Microsoft.

mrblakemiller:
That last minute was immaculate. The conceit we're being shown is unconscionable. I'm almost looking forward to some big crash (I'm getting too old for hardcore gaming anyways), and seeing what rises from the ashes.

How old is too old? I'm 34, married , 2 kids, work etc blah blah blah. The biggest issue for me is lack of time (maybe that's what you meant). It's why I gave up on Dark Souls. Just couldn't grind out the hours required and get over all the dying! I still haven't finished Fallout NV. I say never too old though. I just resent the ever expanding list of ideas, processes and activities that people expect me to participate in and conform to. That's what makes grumpy old men I guess.

OT: Frankly, the suggestion of an always online console in order to play disc based games is appalling and incomprehensible. Lucky that Sony is offering a product that still allows users to choose whether to connect or not, and to play single player games offline regardless of connectivity status. I have really enjoyed my 360. It's 5 years old and never broken down, but it might well be joined by a PS4 in the next year or so.

Zachary Amaranth:

Adon Cabre:

It's very hard to lose a connection in California, because the internet carrier suffers the most when you decide to move onto another. I had fast internet at work, college and at home; and not to mention my cell phone.

So you're using the same short-sighted fallback as Microsoft.

#deal with it! :D

image

Anyways, I've recently begun to have quite a change of heart with consoles. All of this buzz surrounding the Xbox720 (Durango) and PS4, and all of this speculation across the tech industry has me leaning toward a PC exclusive life. Well, a PC and tablet. Technology is evolving more rapidly than many realize, and the industry will leave these consoles in the dust in about three years. (I can easily see the iphone 7 having a 2.4 GHz dual core processor.) I'm pretty sure that by next year, you'll be hearing about developers tapping out 100% both console's graphical and computer processing capacity.

Getting back to the point, I don't play any online multiplayer, but I need a stable connection for Netflix and other social media software on the PS3. The world is becoming too connected to not be always on line. I watch a lot of small tech convention interviews and panels. Entrepreneurs are really pushing innovation toward a smart city.

I guess that's why I'm really liking what I see from Watchdogs.

Adon Cabre:

I guess that's why I'm really liking what I see from Watchdogs.

Gaming severely lacking self-awareness? >.>

Sorry, the irony of Watchdogs gets me every time.

Dear Jim Sterling, I am your number one fan, but why have you switched to this unpleasant fascist layout? The only thing you have advocated genocide on is bad practices in the games industry, you don't need to associate(dirty) yourself with those guys.

-your number one fan

grey_space:

cheetahguy:
actually this has been confirmed and Microsoft is making the new Xbox with DRM, they even gave the prices and said "if your internet connection goes out for 3 minutes you Xbox will shut down" what an epic fail.

where has it been confirmed? Thought it was just unsubstantiated rumours at this point

It was actually revealed on escapist news now, its a pretty new video so when Jim made this it was before they said "yes its DRM confirmed" though Microsoft may pull out and make it offline accessible, but I really don't think they would do something that smart last minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUDtLeRGSr4&list=PLAbMhAYRuCUiwLRJCOE-Oen0Dfqd1TLrB&index=41

p.s the video is about an interview with the new Xbox's pricing but its revealed near the end that the new Xbox will have DRM.

TomWiley:

ineedbettername:
The gaming industry is in such a titanic climb right now that they're about to stall straight into a nosedive. Gamers are wising up to the crazy shit that publishers and developers are trying to get away with, and it's not going to work for very much longer.

Oh I think it will. EA games are still selling well. Their DLC and microtransactions are selling even better.
Those big evil companies - they know us better than we know ourselves.

Oh I don't think so. EA may try and act like they are doing well but lets face it, EA is scared of all the things they say their not. (here's and example) No matter what EA says they are scared that Steam is going to do better than Origin and if you want to know why its because if EA says "Origin is doing so much better than steam" then why did EA (this is true!) want to buy steam at 1 million dollars, yeah that's right EA offered steam 1 million for the rights, so when EA says their not scared of steam then it begs the question "if your so quick to insult steam on how small it is, then why were you begging and pleading and go so far as to offer 1 million just to own steam".
EA just likes to pretend that they are unmatched but in reality they are the type of company that's "to big to fail" but is also "to oblivious to survive"

TomWiley:
Oh I think it will. EA games are still selling well. Their DLC and microtransactions are selling even better.
Those big evil companies - they know us better than we know ourselves.

As well as their games might be selling, they're still posting weak profits when they do, and significant losses when they aren't. Why? Staggering production and marketing costs.

So it's more like EA is playing a dangerous game.
If consumer confidence and good will backlashes even a little (by accident or realization) it hurts them a lot more.

Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?

Diablo 3 and SimCity's launches failed because of volume that the servers couldn't handle. If a console always had to be online and connected to a server, then publishers would be able to see how many people are online at any given moment and better prepare for games with always-online connections since they would have to be linked to a server.

... Having said that, this one not-quite-braindead idea does not negate anything you said about the poor internet service many areas have, alienating gamestop, the lack of a need for it anyway for many games, etc etc.

canadamus_prime:
I'm almost tempted to get Twatter just so I can throw those words back in their faces.

That would not be a constructive way to utilize Twitter.

CaptOfSerenity:

canadamus_prime:
I'm almost tempted to get Twatter just so I can throw those words back in their faces.

That would not be a constructive way to utilize Twitter.

You mean there is a constructive way to utilize Twatter (not a typo)?

Oh, and one other thing that I don't think Jim brought up: Orth said in one of his tweets that "we live in an always-online world". The difference, Mr.Orth, is that when I download something off of iTunes, I don't need to stay connected once it's been downloaded. I can listen to Ghost Love Score on an airplane or watch doctor who in a dead zone. I can play Dark Crusade while my LAN is down and wait for it to come back up. Those devices are not always online (not in the way we're talking about here) because they still work without the online connection.

And as to the vacuum argument... Actually, never mind, I don't think I need to explain why that's dumb.

QUINTIX:
I'll disagree with Kevin Dent here too https://kevin-dent.squarespace.com/blog/2013/4/5/in-the-world-2929
however, I will agree with him & Manveer Heir that the Orth is not deserving the bile he's receiving.

From my bigoted perspective, this vitriol filled reaction to perceived threats (especially anti-feminist ones) is to be expected from our latchkey generation with many of its "young men" staying teenage boys into perpetuity.

what? lolz

What if the focus on copyright is just a way to distract customers? Misdirection. If they wanted to, it would be easy to upset the community an manipulate what it is they are speaking about. In cases where you couldn't control that in a positive way, you could always limit it by starting on a focused point.

The rather large copyright issue would be a perfect way to take the focus off media content itself. In cases where the uncontrolled community would effect sales negatively. It seems simple to me that they would want to guide the conversation to topics that don't effect sales as much or at all.

I think you have already lost if you care about this stuff at all. You're a gamer, an your goal is to play games. How much if any of this has anything to do with that? In many cases our behavior as gamers is counter productive to our actual goal. I could be playing games, instead I'm trolling about them.

how sad,

xGSx

cheetahguy:

p.s the video is about an interview with the new Xbox's pricing but its revealed near the end that the new Xbox will have DRM.

Is it something specific, though? Because the current system has DRM, too.

If you're a console gamer, the question should be "so what?" Unless there's a radical change.

HalfTangible:
Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?

Diablo 3 and SimCity's launches failed because of volume that the servers couldn't handle. If a console always had to be online and connected to a server, then publishers would be able to see how many people are online at any given moment and better prepare for games with always-online connections since they would have to be linked to a server.

... Having said that, this one not-quite-braindead idea does not negate anything you said about the poor internet service many areas have, alienating gamestop, the lack of a need for it anyway for many games, etc etc.

This actually dovetails with the reason I came back into this thread, so I'll quote it.

I get the DA position, but companies always play it conservatively with servers, and that's part of the problem here. Microsoft ran like 3 years straight having trouble keeping XBlox Live up over the holidays. That wasn't as big a deal to me when I got started out, because I didn't even have gold and so my online connection was more or less a trivial thing. But at a time when huge MP titles were coming out, it meant that a lot of online players couldn't play the games they had just bought.

Now, picture a service-wide outage because of this. Where not only are Halo 7 fans impacted, but also anyone who bought a game months before. Hell, Kive was having serious problems for almost half of the Double XP weekend for Black Ops 2 this week, and I'd be surprised if the two weren't related.

If Always-online games become common, so will outages.

HalfTangible:
Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?

Diablo 3 and SimCity's launches failed because of volume that the servers couldn't handle. If a console always had to be online and connected to a server, then publishers would be able to see how many people are online at any given moment and better prepare for games with always-online connections since they would have to be linked to a server.

How would that be different? The console has to be online to begin and logging automatically connects you with the server. I mean that's how computers work, I don't think publishers seeing how many "potential users who might log-in" changes the how well they are going to handle those users.

You are either be prepared or you're not.

I mean even if this scenario were the case, if I have a single-player game I would have to connect online?

Lovely Mixture:

HalfTangible:
Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?

Diablo 3 and SimCity's launches failed because of volume that the servers couldn't handle. If a console always had to be online and connected to a server, then publishers would be able to see how many people are online at any given moment and better prepare for games with always-online connections since they would have to be linked to a server.

How would that be different? The console has to be online to begin and logging automatically connects you with the server. I mean that's how computers work, I don't think publishers seeing how many "potential users who might log-in" changes the how well they are going to handle those users.

You are either be prepared or you're not.

I mean even if this scenario were the case, if I have a single-player game I would have to connect online?

The idea is that if every console was online, then one could more easily tell how many servers they need for a new game release while simultaneously stress-testing the servers. Moreover, they would be able to reuse servers for the same game, since the console is what's always online instead of the game.

This is bullcrap, of course, (especially since they'd ALSO be making the games always-on and doesn't really negate the problems with internet connections brought up here) but I did say I was playing devil's advocate.

HalfTangible:

Lovely Mixture:

HalfTangible:
Can I play devil's advocate here for a second?

Diablo 3 and SimCity's launches failed because of volume that the servers couldn't handle. If a console always had to be online and connected to a server, then publishers would be able to see how many people are online at any given moment and better prepare for games with always-online connections since they would have to be linked to a server.

How would that be different? The console has to be online to begin and logging automatically connects you with the server. I mean that's how computers work, I don't think publishers seeing how many "potential users who might log-in" changes the how well they are going to handle those users.

You are either be prepared or you're not.

I mean even if this scenario were the case, if I have a single-player game I would have to connect online?

The idea is that if every console was online, then one could more easily tell how many servers they need for a new game release while simultaneously stress-testing the servers. Moreover, they would be able to reuse servers for the same game, since the console is what's always online instead of the game.

This is bullcrap, of course, (especially since they'd ALSO be making the games always-on and doesn't really negate the problems with internet connections brought up here) but I did say I was playing devil's advocate.

Ok I see, that makes a little more sense. I wish I could try to go Devil's Advocate for this, but it's something I cannot reason. So I commend your volunteering.

Zachary Amaranth:

cheetahguy:

p.s the video is about an interview with the new Xbox's pricing but its revealed near the end that the new Xbox will have DRM.

Is it something specific, though? Because the current system has DRM, too.

If you're a console gamer, the question should be "so what?" Unless there's a radical change.

There is radical change, if your not connected to the internet for 2-3 minutes your console will shut down and won't let you use it until you can log back on. So you cant play any offline games or acess anythig without being connected, not even the dashboard.

cheetahguy:

There is radical change, if your not connected to the internet for 2-3 minutes your console will shut down and won't let you use it until you can log back on. So you cant play any offline games or acess anythig without being connected, not even the dashboard.

But did they specifically confirm this as you implied? Even the rumours are moving away from that, so I'm betting the BLOGGER in the youtube video has, as well. But the point remains, these are nothing more than rumours and the source you're quoting cites a blogger, not anyone in a real position to confirm it. Not to mention the fact that a hundred dollar subscription based XBox 3600 already exists, adding to the questionable journalism here (How anyone could say that the pricing model included here is expensive for a new console and hold any credibility is beyond me).

No, it wasn't really "revealed" at the end. Paul Thurrot, a blogger who has a spotty record on such claims, claimed that it would be, based upon the same information that claimed (for example) that the new XBox would have been revealed this month.

So it's not a radical change until actually confirmed to exist. Remember, the PS4 was going to be always online and stop used games (and the PS3 was going to stop used games and rely on online DRM), and this was "confirmed" by dubious blogging sources as well. I am not saying that it won't have this horrible DRM, but I will not accept it as fact until we have some actual basis on which to do so.

And given that the rumour mongers are shying away from the always-online claims now, I'm betting we won't. But I don't know for sure, because (encore une fois) we don't have the information necessary.

im excited about this rant. I liked it.

Zachary Amaranth:

But did they specifically confirm this as you implied? Even the rumours are moving away from that, so I'm betting the BLOGGER in the youtube video has, as well. But the point remains, these are nothing more than rumours and the source you're quoting cites a blogger, not anyone in a real position to confirm it. Not to mention the fact that a hundred dollar subscription based XBox 3600 already exists, adding to the questionable journalism here (How anyone could say that the pricing model included here is expensive for a new console and hold any credibility is beyond me).

eh, either way i'm not exited for any of the new consoles that are coming out.

cheetahguy:

eh, either way i'm not exited for any of the new consoles that are coming out.

Nor am I, though I'll wait for Microsoft to underwhelm me themselves, rather than buying into some blogger's BS.

By the way, said blogger? His new "confirmed" rumours undercut these ones. So...Yeah.

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