Nintendo Needs To Reboot Mario and Luigi

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Nintendo Needs To Reboot Mario and Luigi

Nintendo really doesn't have anything to lose by trying a reboot of its most popular (and worn-out) series.

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I like the idea of doing a "real" Mario reboot, especially if they manage to implement at least some of the idead you have brought forth, but I don't think that a "grittier" mario reboot is something we'll see anytime soon, especially if the franchise continues to make truckloads of money.
Because as we all know, there is only one thing Nintendo loves more than milking a franchise until it's udder shrivels up and dies.
And that's money.

Oh good. I was starting to worry that I was the only one who enjoyed that film.

that's....impossible. Mario doesn't really HAVE a continuity, explaining stuff ABOUT Mario, Peach, and the Mushroom Kingdom would be stupid (in the same vein of trying to make elaborate backstories about Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, or Donald Duck), and an image change would be even MORE stupid. There's no reason for a reboot. Heck, the only Nintendo series I think even has a POSSIBILITY of a reboot is Metroid because that series is dependent on it being the life story of its ONE protagonist whose lifespan is finite.

Ignoring for a moment that Nintendo is simply planning to skip the expensive conference in favor of their own cheaper Nintendo Direct shows, that actually not a horrible idea. An open world style Mushroom Kingdom? Yes please. And the action RPG part brings to mind the usually good and funny writing of the various Mario RPG spinoffs. Do want!

Also... BOB-OMB! MONKEY!

mjc0961:
An open world style Mushroom Kingdom? Yes please.

You know, if they gave us something somewhat in the vein of Prince of Persia 2008 with a bunch of platforming sections spread out through an open world, I would be up for it.

Calibanbutcher:
I like the idea of doing a "real" Mario reboot, especially if they manage to implement at least some of the idead you have brought forth, but I don't think that a "grittier" mario reboot is something we'll see anytime soon, especially if the franchise continues to make truckloads of money.
Because as we all know, there is only one thing Nintendo loves more than milking a franchise until it's udder shrivels up and dies.
And that's money.

I don't really see the point in making it gritty either. There's enough of that around, and I don't think irony dollars will accumulate as quickly as earnest ones.

One aspect they could approach is that Mario is just as worried as Luigi in there situations, but puts on a brave face because he's the older brother.

You're forgetting something, Yahtzee. "Gamers" over the age of twenty are not the target market for Mario games. Kids are. And they always have been. The only reason adults enjoy them at all is that they're well-made games. Well-made kids' media that doesn't talk down to its audience will always have broader appeal. And when people who fail to realize this decide that they are the primary audience and that the franchise should retool itself to appeal more to them, they tend to get dumped on by people who know better. Ask me about My Little Pony fans sometime.

I think the problem is that Nintendo has reached a point where they've decided aiming their new games at kids who aren't familiar with the franchise's history and thus won't notice they're being fed a repackaged version of the same thing is just as profitable as actually being creative. You see it a lot in kids' shows; they run for 65 episodes and then, assuming their original audience has outgrown it, repackage it for syndication.

Articles like these only serve to remind me that imagination and creativity don't run the movies/games industry and never will. Nintendo really doesn't have anything to lose here, and they still won't do any of these, or anything else that would mean re-examining the franchise and deviating from the established formula. Japan in general doesn't do it, and there's always someone in such a big company who desperately feels they need even more money, and want to play it safe.

And for JRPGs this has cost them their reputation because they won't reboot JRPGs as darker and grittier stories which isn't afraid put the mantle of maturity on.

I'd like to see something like that. Mario was born in an era when story was not usually considered important to gaming and narratives were simple and archetypal, if they existed at all, so Mario's formula hasn't exactly aged well. It'd be fun to expand on the narrative and the characters, give them personality and depth, maybe give Peach something to do other than just be kidnapped for no better purpose than to make sure Mario will rescue her because she's really insecure and doesn't believe anybody could ever love her because she knows she's a shallow twit with no personality . . .
Sorry, I was reading too much into it again.

On the other subject, no, I don't think the live action Mario was any good. It had interesting ideas, but the creators weren't trying to make a Mario movie, didn't want to make a Mario movie, but were forced to take an idea they already had and turn it into a Mario movie. They didn't care about the project and all the actors hated it. It shows.

gyrobot:
And for JRPGs this has cost them their reputation because they won't reboot JRPGs as darker and grittier stories which isn't afraid put the mantle of maturity on.

Dark and gritty does not equal mature and not every concept is suitable for a dark and gritty tone. As I keep saying (apparently in vain) dark and gritty is an aesthetic choice. It is not automatically superior to every other style and tone of movie you could make and our obsessive need to make everything dark and gritty is only a sign of our own lack of maturity, because it says we need to look adult to feel secure about ourselves.

I would respectfully disagree, since this is kind of what Sega did to Sonic. While I know Sega and Nintendo are leagues apart (hell, it's not even the same sport at this point), I don't see this ending well.

I'd sooner say scrap the whole series and move on.

I recently started playing MB3 and Yoshi's Island and have been enjoying them thoroughly. Mario 64 is always a go to if I catch a fever, and Mario RPG has aged surprisingly well. I'm cool on Mario. I'm FINE on Mario. 86 it. I'd MUCH rather see Mario become a reference for some kind of new IP who explores a new and interesting mechanic.

I think in short it comes down to this. Mario is a ham sandwich. A really good ham sandwich. Nothing you don't need but the ingredients are good. Trying to make it like something Yahtzee mentioned in the article is like adding hot sauce or switching the lovely Swiss with blue cheese. It might be interesting, but you always go back to the classics when you get a hankering for it.

I want to see Mario with a fried egg on it.

cidbahamut:
Oh good. I was starting to worry that I was the only one who enjoyed that film.

The film wasnt great, but it did have its charm.

Anyways, Im still waiting for that Mario FPS I was promised...

(and related picture)

image

I would be all for a more serious take on the Mario mythos. might be the first Mario game in a long time that I bother to buy.

Capcha: "Move along". ... yeah, yeah, nothing to see here. Nintendo drained out their creativity tanks long ago.

It's funny you mention the Mario Bros movie because I recently read an article explaining what a mess the making of that movie was and how much the actors DIDN'T enjoy themselves doing it.

This is sarcasm, right?

No, rebooting won't help this franchise. They either keep milking this cow or finally let its dried out carcass hit the ground. I vote for the second option, but on the other hand someone still enjoys these games, so who am I to object to that?

I cannot believe any of you are taking this seriously. Come on, guys.

I can think of a much better way to reboot Mario and Luigi


Just do all ^that with real people.

"I'm probably the only person who thought that film was quite good"
Yeah, you probably are Yahtzee, sorry.

As for a reboots, most of the games are not even attempted at connecting in terms of plot. About the only franchise that is Mario in which the plot is connected throughout the games is the Paper Mario series.

I don't know why Mario would need a reboot when just about every game in the franchise is already a reboot. Unless what you mean is a gritty reboot. Which is a terrible idea. An explanation for the world would be fine, especially in an RPG series. But the aesthetic of Super Mario is right where it ought to be, far, far away from gritty realism.

Those of us who buy millions of copies of Mario games, do so because we don't want to buy millions of copies of Call of Duty. For a Mario game to work, it needs to be what Mario is. Not alienate us by pretending to be something else. Something we don't want.

WanderingFool:

cidbahamut:
Oh good. I was starting to worry that I was the only one who enjoyed that film.

The film wasnt great, but it did have its charm.

Anyways, Im still waiting for that Mario FPS I was promised...

I'd also want to see a Mario fps, I'm hoping it would look something like this...

image

cidbahamut:
Oh good. I was starting to worry that I was the only one who enjoyed that film.

It was a fun movie. Not great, but I could certainly live with "enjoyable."

Steve the Pocket:
Ask me about My Little Pony fans sometime.

I don't know, I think Yahtzee is familiar with MLP. He strikes me as a Fluttershy fan.

WanderingFool:

Anyways, Im still waiting for that Mario FPS I was promised...

(and related picture)

image

Is Luigi using a P-90? More reason to like him.

More importantly, does the star on Mario's firearm mean he's invincible?

EstrogenicMuscle:

Those of us who buy millions of copies of Mario games, do so because we don't want to buy millions of copies of Call of Duty.

I don't think it has to be either/or.

I don't know that the Mario series necessarily needs a reboot, but a series that has been running this long is definitely ripe material for reimagining in some sort of spinoff. Mario has been around so long he's a part of our cultural lexicon. Even your mom knows who Mario is. He's made it into a lot of contemporary art and music, especially with the current "retro" trend. And if you want to see how a more serious look at themes just glazed over by the main series, just look at the Escapists's own There Will Be Brawl. Was it a silly idea? Yes. Was it super awesome? Hell yes.

Of course, a reimagining, rexamining spinoff of Mario doesn't have to be all 90's grimdark. The various Mario RPG games have already started exploring the world a bit more, and they're still very rooted in the Saturday morning cartoon, sugary breakfast cereal commercial aesthetic. I really like the "blue collar Supermen" angle, and I really, really, really like the "Peach as John Carter of Mars" angle. Hell, we've all heard the joke about Bowser being an inept villian and Peach allowing herself to be kidnapped so Mario has something to do, and also because she's kind of into it. It's such an obvious joke even College Humor made it. Probably more than once. But it illustrats the point that there are interesting avenues the series could explore or explain that don't currently make sense to the people who grew up on Mario, but that don't need to make sense to the kids that are currently discovering him. And they don't have to be ridiculously overserious or all black, brown, and grey. Nintendo can eplore the Mushroom Kingdom in this way without alienating its younger audience. We can have both cartoon Mario and Super Mario.

Why do we have to disregard the Yoshi's Island games? I think they could be rebooted too and then tie in rather well. Mario and Luigi are babies living in Brooklyn. One day they're taking a bath and a strange magical force sucks them down the drain (oh hey! an explanation for the bubbles!). Maybe there's something about one of their bath toys being a powerful magic item in the Mushroom Kingdom, and that's why they're pulled there (maybe it's related to F.L.U.D.D. somehow). Oh, and I like your idea for Peach, so she's just another baby who is pulled into the world for whatever reason. Yoshi is the hero here, and takes the babies on a quest to stop the villain (a shy guy leader?) and send the babies home.

After all these events as babies, they're returned home. Of course, like most of us, they grow up forgetting what happened to them when they were babies. A few years later, there's a new threat on the Mushroom Kingdom. The citizens know they need one of there past heroes to save them, and they choose to drag Peach in to be their hero.

This goes very well, so well that they name Peach as their ruler. But not everyone is happy about this, and a young Koopa named Bowser rally's together a force of those who oppose this outsider being their ruler (oh! so that's why not every Koopa and Goomba is on Bowser's side! It's just the ones who oppose Peach). They analyze how Peach has fought in the past and train and strategize until they know they can capture her and have Bowser take over. The citizens need another hero, and this time they pull Mario and Luigi into the world to defeat Bowser.

You know what? I've written this much already anyway, let's try something else. So we're saying the villain Peach fought was a new one. How about one with cloning powers, who used his powers to make an army of Toad clones (Goombas). He's trying to take advantage of this power struggle and is hoping to overthrow Bowser too so that he can take over. But instead of going to do it on his own, he clones Mario and Luigi to create Wario and Waluigi, too minions who are in charge of taking down Bowser. They serve as rivals to Mario and Luigi and occasionally get in their way.

Hey, wait a minute, why didn't this cloning guy try to use his power on Peach? Hm, could this be a backstory for Daisy? What if she's a clone of Peach who started out as a minion, but eventually had a change of heart. Oh! And then what if this villain is the king of Sarasaland, who's plan was to expand his Kingdom into the Mushroom Kingdom, but then when Peach defeated him Daisy took over. What if this king villain guy was Tatanga? Oh, what if Sarasaland is just a whole land of clones? And Diamond City is located there!

Wow, this is fun. I think I might try writing some more later.

and maybe peach could be more that an object to get`?

maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and batteling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.

I was thinking the main part of the story in the games that needs to be explored is why there is a "war" between the Mushroom Kingdom and the Koopa Kingdom? Thinking back to the original game, I believe it said that Bowser cursed the Mushroom Kingdom so the Mushroom people were turned to blocks, what if there was a spin on that? That what if Peach had the power to turn inanimate objects alive and built the whole Kingdom and Bowser wants things to return to normal. Peach is too powerful to kill but kidnapping her is the only solution he has. Meanwhile Mario and Luigi show up while the Kingdom is slowly reverting back to the original state and the remaining Mushroom people set him out on the quest to save their princess. Like Peach, Mario and Luigi find that they have powers here too but they're just not as good as Peach's. Where she can bring things to life M&L can internalize the powers of the Mushroom Kingdom allowing them to grow, spit fire, fly, etc. This reinforces them as Blue Collar Supermen, as they could have potential to be God-Kings like Peach has made herself but they don't have the skills or know-how to make it happen so they figure out how to utilize their limited powers and still save the Kingdom.

You lost me at the comparisons to Superman...
Lets not dig further into the rabbit hole than necessary, especially any rabbit hole that MovieBob found.

If there is any subversion of heroic tropes, it was done purely on accident. Mario is not Superman.
(even when Mario dons the cape he can only take 2 hits before being KO'd)

When Super Mario Bros was new, and lets be honest, it was a surreal game.
Grown-men eating mushrooms and to grow in size so they can stomp on turtles or magic flowers that let them throw fire from their hands is the kind of thing that only the 1980s could produce.

The story is what justifies our "heroes" looking like two lost pixelated handymen who have a penchant for jumping down the inordinately numerous, man-sized pipes in the Mushroom Kingdom. Even the "reward" of rescuing the princess is a cliche'; a reward that is based predominantly on the fact that the two heroes are human, so they would want a human reward.

(Wario is a perfect subversion of that; whereas a rescue is considered a token reward for heroes, Wario just wants money because he's darker and greedy, and yet he's doing largely the same bloody thing as his "Nice Guy" counterpart)

There isn't any deeper meaning to it; it's just a way to rationalize otherwise weird ass elements tied to gameplay mechanics. And that is why a lot of video game movies fail; their fantastical elements make little to no sense unless they are already conforming to tropes in film (like Mortal Kombat; martial arts films, especially weird/bad Hong Kong cinema, predates MK by 40 years at least)

In that, I agree that the Super Mario Bros movie we got was about as good as we could have expected from the time.
Because I saw the alternative. I watched the Super Show when it was new, and staying true to the elements in the game only served to highlight just how convoluted and surreal it was outside of its environment.

So..I dunno. Maybe a reboot of the Mario Bros could work creatively, but asking Nintendo to reboot Mario is like asking Disney to reboot Mickey Mouse; they aren't going to budge because they rather like the icon they've got.
(and ironically, it has sort of been done before for both characters. Steamboat Willie vs Donkey Kong)

I've always been wondering if they'd get the balls to try something like this. I once even debated trying to make a little indie adventure/horror game using the cast of Mario as the base for a deconstruction of the very (as referenced in the article) morally questionable behavior and potentially harmful attitude. Anything different from what they're doing would be interesting at this point.

Lol I love all the ideas!

Not that Nintendo will ever do any of this, Mario is what he is. I would love any sort of retake on the old brothers, how about a game where Luigi bribes Wario to help him save Mario? Of course Mario is their invincible icon so Nintendo would probably never do that. (maybe he's asleep and won't wake up?)

Yeah Nintendo is perfectly happy doing the same old crap, I can't even think of what horrible thing would have to happen to the company for them to even consider shaking things up with their franchises. So lets just all keep dreaming. They're nice dreams...

Zachary Amaranth:

Steve the Pocket:
Ask me about My Little Pony fans sometime.

I don't know, I think Yahtzee is familiar with MLP. He strikes me as a Fluttershy fan.

I seriously doubt that he is a brony.

OT: I don't really care if Mario needs a reboot or not, as long as they're fun.

I don't have much of an opinion per se on what they do with the games, but the movies I feel are a sticking point for adaptation because I feel, much like with Avengers, that the point is to try and make it seem like something that could happen in real life or at least bring the feeling of the game into straight narrative, and a radical redesign like the Mario movie, though agreed can be...interesting, just defeats the purpose. HOWEVER, things like character dimension and subtext would make for a massive improvement to an adaptation from a medium that doesn't focus on it while still keeping the iconography like they did with the comic-based films.

For example, a Megaman movie would most likely need to be action-packed but somewhat cheery and humorous, not a cold-blooded gun fest (see Megaman X attempted reboot game, the one where X doesn't have a damn face). You've got the basic set-up: Light vs. Wily, Megaman fighting Robot Masters, fortress invasion, stealing powers, etc. It's the characters and meaning behind the conflict, though, that will make it work - Megaman, a naive, moral do-gooder, encounters Protoman, who left Light because he wanted to become independent and sees the Light/Wily war as a sick ego-stroking grudge match where the robots are disposable tools and tries to convince MM that his love and devotion to Light isn't genuine but some misguided sense of obligation that holds him back from making real choices.

Though you've got the iconography, it's those missing details that change the context of the entire story, the one that is only hinted at in the game and becomes the embodiment of the character itself, ie Megaman is a robot learning to be human and fights for justice, but finds that the most human emotion, love, can be deceptive and determines the decisions he makes. He also begins to understand the hypocrisy of fighting his robot kin and becomes torn between his creator and his brethren. Boom - conflict.

It's the kind of story that will make you think differently when you go back to play the games. That's what I think a good adaptation should do - not just show you the same stuff again, but improve it and add perspective to the the characters and their series. Capcom alone has some properties ripe for that kind of treatment and Nintendo and Mario certainly have room for expansion. (a thought on Mario and Luigi - Luigi is a coward but also sensitive and somewhat intelligent while Mario is brave but child-like and somewhat stubborn, which would get him into a trap that Luigi would know instinctively to avoid and become a short "Mario's Missing" sequence where Luigi would overcome his fear and save his bro).

Atmos Duality:
When Super Mario Bros was new, and lets be honest, it was a surreal game.
Grown-men eating mushrooms and to grow in size so they can stomp on turtles or magic flowers that let them throw fire from their hands is the kind of thing that only the 1980s could produce.

The story is what justifies our "heroes" looking like two lost pixelated handymen who have a penchant for jumping down the inordinately numerous, man-sized pipes in the Mushroom Kingdom. Even the "reward" of rescuing the princess is a cliche'; a reward that is based predominantly on the fact that the two heroes are human, so they would want a human reward.

...

So..I dunno. Maybe a reboot of the Mario Bros could work creatively, but asking Nintendo to reboot Mario is like asking Disney to reboot Mickey Mouse; they aren't going to budge because they rather like the icon they've got.
(and ironically, it has sort of been done before for both characters. Steamboat Willie vs Donkey Kong)

The idea of "rebooting" Mario is terrible, but rebooting the world he is in could be interesting. The surreal aspects of the original game have lost that effect over time. Mario fights a fairly similar set of enemies each time. To some degree, the worlds aren't surprising at all. In fact, playing a newer Mario title is comfortable.

So, the change I would want to see is having the traditional Mario end up in a completely different World. One that brings back that surreal feeling you got from the Super Mario Brothes. The US Super Mario Brothers 2 was totally surreal as well, since it was actually all based on a completely different game. After Super Mario 3 things have been very samey. So, Nintendo, how about creating something so weird that even jaded gamers have no idea what is going on.

It could ONLY happen in a spin-off series. People like to dump on Mario, but here we are, 30 years later. and Mario Galaxy is considered on of the best games on it's generation. Not best Mario or Nintendo game, but one of the best overall. You also have to deal with the fact that he has basically become the mascot for Nintendo, and you don't mess with the mascot. Sega, among it's many other faults, forgot that and well... We all all know Sonic's story.

mjc0961:
Ignoring for a moment that Nintendo is simply planning to skip the expensive conference in favor of their own cheaper Nintendo Direct shows, that actually not a horrible idea. An open world style Mushroom Kingdom? Yes please. And the action RPG part brings to mind the usually good and funny writing of the various Mario RPG spinoffs. Do want!

Also... BOB-OMB! MONKEY!

An open world mushroom kingdom would be great. It would definitely be the kind of thing that could breathe life into the franchise without going over board.

It could still have traditional levels in it, but have them be part of a larger world. I would love that.

-Dragmire-:
image

Aside from the fact that Peach gets to be more badass, this is a horrible idea and one of the reason I respect Nintendo so much is that they'd never have the lack of sense to do something this terrible. This is around 30 times as horrible of an idea as Shadow the Hedgehog at least. And Shadow the Hedgehog was a horrible, terrible, disgraceful idea.

If this is what one means by "reboot", then Mario is one of the last things on the planet that needs a "reboot". And such a reboot would be one of the worst ideas in the industry ever. Up there with ideas like making Final Fantasy All the Bravest a horrible cash in game.

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