Nintendo Needs To Reboot Mario and Luigi

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Great intro. I always kinda like that movie too.
Anyway, I guess you could reboot Mario (it'd be interesting at the very least), but I don't think it'll happen.
It'd be like rebooting Winnie the Pooh.

Mr.Mattress:

theultimateend:

Mario 64 without loading screens would be boss.

Mario 64 without loading screens IS Mario 64... Both the original and the DS Version...

OT: No way. Mario does not need rebooting. It's not like the Looney Tunes, where it was acceptable to do stuff like that back in the day, but now you can't, so you have to make it a modern sitcom that only hints at it's past. Mario is timeless really. And people should want to keep it that way. Adding story, or making it grimmer, or explaining everything, would not make it timeless, and then you would need to keep adding and removing stuff, like the Looney Tunes.

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't use the right word. I thought it was obvious.

Mario 64 without instanced maps...

No. They just need to stop making them completely.

I don't believe the plumber could really use a reboot. The 2D Mario games already focus too much on going 'back to basics', and any way you could change the universe with a reboot would only serve to distract people from what made Mario games special; their creative level design and wholesome (yet hilarious) sense of humor. Any dramatic change to Mario's universe would probably be better received as an entirely new IP rather then hijacking a successful and popular series.

With that being said, I really hope Nintendo's next announced installment to the 3D platformer side of the Mario series gets something out to really excite me. While the 2D games are fun yet uninspired, the 3D platformers never fail to impress me and capture my imagination. With the possible exception of Mario 3D land. Nintendo just needs to let loose with Mario and stop restraining him with tradition and nostalgia.

Eventually this generation of classic Mario players will pass and there won't be much about Mario that really leaves an impression on today's youth. I love Mario and I don't like to have to say it, but this business model will only sustain itself for so long without Nintendo putting some serious effort into stirring things up and giving us a memorable experience. Without it I'm not sure if Mario can really survive for another 10 years.

firmicute:
and maybe peach could be more that an object to get`?

maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and batteling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.

They had a game like that, Super Princess Peach for the DS. Didn't do too hot, but some form of reboot is definitely needed from the dead cow.

Mario is the gaming Mickey Mouse, he's an icon. If he were to change to look different for a 'reboot' it'd cause a negative reaction from people and what would it gain them? A few people who'd bitch about how pathetic it is, a bunch of people annoyed that it changed and a few people enjoying it, but outnumbered by those who didn't.

Mario was born in the area of games appealing to a younger audience and an audience who enjoyed fantasy. He doesn't belong in the disgusting gaming market of today where realism is the way of making a 'good' game.

The Towel Boy:

firmicute:
and maybe peach could be more that an object to get`?

maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and batteling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.

They had a game like that, Super Princess Peach for the DS. Didn't do too hot, but some form of reboot is definitely needed from the dead cow.

I highly doubt you can call it a dead cow when it still rakes in cash for Nintendo.

Well, Nintendo might consider this to be the official backstory:

Fansub.

Fandub:

How do you reboot a series that changes genre on a whim and has no connecting stories?

Aiddon:
that's....impossible. Mario doesn't really HAVE a continuity, explaining stuff ABOUT Mario, Peach, and the Mushroom Kingdom would be stupid (in the same vein of trying to make elaborate backstories about Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, or Donald Duck), and an image change would be even MORE stupid. There's no reason for a reboot. Heck, the only Nintendo series I think even has a POSSIBILITY of a reboot is Metroid because that series is dependent on it being the life story of its ONE protagonist whose lifespan is finite.

This. Except for the part that almost all the Nintendo series' didn't need a reboot. I'm still waiting for Nintendo to do Twilight Princess: Non Half-Assed Edition

I guess if you really think it'd bring back those who "shouldered" mario. I like Marios platforming. In truth, its getting to be my only real platforming need-filler. We used to have sonic and megaman beating down the door, delivering excellent playthroughs over and over, and then crash bandicoot would come crashing in with his silliness,and Blinx the cat would stop time enough for me to actually consider the xbox from microsoft housing some really quality platform titles...But alas. mario is all i have left. The blue bomber and the blue blur are slowly gone. Please guys, dont take away the plumber too. Hes all i got ;_;

Zachary Amaranth:

I don't know, I think Yahtzee is familiar with MLP. He strikes me as a Fluttershy fan.

Based on a podcast I recall watching a few months ago where he was talking about Fandoms along with Bob and Jim, he made a comment about it where he still seemed to be under the impression that bronies are an "ironic fandom" pretending to like MLP, which implies he probably hasn't been paying any serious attention to them.

OT:

Actually, a Friendship is Magic style reboot might be the most useful for Mario.

Still sugary and cartoonish and kid-oriented, but with enough worldbuilding and characterizations to be more enjoyable for adults.

A grimdark epic fantasy would just be the butt of all jokes, with everyone laghing at it instead of with it. It would be exactly the kind of thing that Yahtzee imagines bronies to be, where we ironically pretend that now the Mushroom Kingdom can be taken seriously.

But if it would be only a little bit more "mature" in an elaborate way, like MLP, it could likewise actually be taken seriusly.

Entitled:

Based on a podcast I recall watching a few months ago where he was talking about Fandoms along with Bob and Jim, he made a comment about it where he still seemed to be under the impression that bronies are an "ironic fandom" pretending to like MLP, which implies he probably hasn't been paying any serious attention to them.

And yet, he's calling for a darker reboot to appease the "irony" base.

Perhaps he doeth protest too much.

Nah, I'm not seriously entertaining this, nor do I really care. I actually DON'T like MLP, so it doesn't matter to me if he is or isn't.

Several points:

1)Mario will never change as long as Shigeru Miyamoto is still alive. He has been frequently quoted saying he prefers not making games with complicated or detailed stories, and there's a video on youtube which demonstrates this escalating pattern with the more recent New Super Mario games; same premise, almost identical music, lazy copy/paste design from Mario Galaxy 2. So there's no hope from that quarter.

2)An actual Toad game. Mario 2 put forth the workable prototype. Moviebob put this out there during his Game Overthinker show, and it is the most solid fresh idea I have heard suggested for the Mario franchise since forever.

3)Nintendo just doesn't take big risks on its penultimate core game (hardware excluded because... duh.).

Still, I'm behind Yahtzee. This is a worthy idea to put out there.

Yeah, they should reboot them as a cart game. No, how about a paper version of Mario? I bet they could do well by rebooting Mario as some kind of party game.

Another reboot, another rehashing of the same thing they've been peddling since the 1980's would be ridiculous. I mean, if they have a great idea in mind then sure, bring it to the table. But they absolutely need to get some legitimate new IPs. I'm tired of the damn plumber. Great childhood memories, but Nintendo just isn't keeping up with me.

NO. Just... no.

Anything that makes Mario more "innovative" completely destroys what makes the series so special.

Super Mario Bros is the only series in gaming that still embraces the retro appeal of the NES, SNES, and N64 era. Get rid of that, and there's nothing left to stand in the way of the convoluted mess that is modern gaming.

I would play this game.

Asuka Soryu:

The Towel Boy:

firmicute:
and maybe peach could be more that an object to get`?

maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and batteling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.

They had a game like that, Super Princess Peach for the DS. Didn't do too hot, but some form of reboot is definitely needed from the dead cow.

I highly doubt you can call it a dead cow when it still rakes in cash for Nintendo.

True, true, they still make more than any innovative or interesting games and concepts.

Horror reaches the height of its efficacy when it leaves the right areas undefined, invoking the limitless power your own imagination holds over you. The Mario series, in its lack of definition, has the same potential. Difference being it would provoke fantasia rather than horror. It does not need to reboot, but rather... shift a little. It needs to create the nudge; the subtle set of signals that would compel even jaded men like Mr. Yahtzee to fill in the blank with his own mind. The most horrifying thing to someone is known only by that someone. Same goes for the most fantastic.

Reboot? I'm sorry, did you see what they did to Bomberman? :(

There's nothing there to reboot in the first place. It's like Call of Duty, who would even notice if you rebooted it?

ITT: People who aren't the main targeted audience of Mario want to be the main targeted audience for Mario.

You guys AREN'T the main targeted audience. You simply are not, yet you ask Nintendo to cater to you. That's not how the world works.
Kids are the main targeted audience. The only reason why adults and so called "core" gamer can enjoy Mario games is because almost every game in the franchise is top notch, top quality and most importantly, pure fun.

What you guys want is not Mario. If you're looking for Not-Mario games, then look for Not-Mario games. But don't ask Mario to not be Mario. You want to take away the franchise form people simply because you have outgrown it and/or are bored by it and/or because it's simply for kids and you don't want to have games for kids.

The game industry is slowly facing the same problem that the comic industry faced and the only company keeping it "safe" is Nintendo. The hobby, gaming should NOT grow up with you. Not every company needs to grow up. Some games need to be for kids. We NEED fresh blood, new gamer, so called "casuals". If Nintendo doesn't keep making games for everyone, for kids, adults, casuals, core... not many companies will. And once we "grown up" gamer get bored of it or simply die, the industry will lose a big chunk of the consumer base and possibly shrink so much that it will just die because it's not profitable enough.

Mario doesn't need a reboot. Mario needs to stay as it is. If you want something different, then look at other games.

I think what you're looking for is Paper Mario. Something that keeps the classic elements of Mario (jumping on turtles and saving the princess), but takes a tongue-in-cheek look at some of the tropes (such as the Bowser stages in Thousand-Year Door) and does new things with the mechanics.

As weird as it is, this is a great idea. For me Mario died around Mario Sunshine. It's not that that game (or Mario Galaxy) isn't a good game. It's just that the entire concept is played out. I bought Mario Galaxy 2 and tried to play it, I think I got about 30 minutes into it and discovered that it's basically like more levels for Mario Galaxy. At that point I turned off and gave away the Wii (which I had bought for Mario and Zelda). Nintendo has this problem with all their big franchises right now because they're all totally played out.

They need something new for now so that they can properly reboot the classic series' later. At this point I'd rather play Sonic Generations (Because of the solid gameplay, the story Sonic universe has become filled with utterly annoying minor characters and I HATE all of them). If your game is more played-out than Sonic, you have an enormous problem.

If they go for the gritty reboot, what I would really like to see is that it starts all gritty and horrible, in new york. Mario and Luigi in dead end jobs, fixing the plumbing. But one day in the sewers they are attacked by koopas, and through one way or another, find their way to the mushroom kingdom, and all the grittyness and depression dissapears. It could be great, seeing that bright, sunshine world for the first time, and then you explore, and find out what exactly is going on, take on the hero's face, and save the princess who is also a human.

Make it so people see the mushroom kingdom like we did as kids.

"You have a character who is mundane in their home environment, but is transported to an alien environment where something ubiquitous that the locals consider normal - the yellow sun in one case and mushrooms in the other - has extraordinary empowering effects upon their biology. Acquiring a sense of importance and belonging that they never had in their home worlds, the heroes accept the responsibility to defend these kindly weaker beings."
That PRECISELY describes John Carter of Mars (in his case, the low gravity empowers him). And you even mentioned John Carter of Mars, but specifically avoided mentioning it in this context.
"But getting back to Mario and Luigi, the main difference between them and Superman is that Superman is every inch the standard archetype of a destined hero. He was sent from his home planet as the last hope of a dying race, and even without his superpowers he's a prime physical specimen. Whereas Mario and Luigi are two shlubby blue collar dudes for whose absence their home world couldn't give two shits. And that's what I think makes this concept really interesting."
That's also basically the concept of John Carter of Mars, which significantly predates Superman by the way, so basically you're just saying that Mario and Luigi are John Carter of Mars.
Actually, now that I think of it, isn't his power basically a super-jump, and isn't he also in a world alien to us specifically, also just like Mario, and unlike Superman? That's weird.

Im going to go to the far left and say we make a game based of the movie :P

And Yahtzee tells us he doesn't hate nintendo.

Aiddon:
that's....impossible. Mario doesn't really HAVE a continuity, explaining stuff ABOUT Mario, Peach, and the Mushroom Kingdom would be stupid (in the same vein of trying to make elaborate backstories about Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, or Donald Duck), and an image change would be even MORE stupid. There's no reason for a reboot. Heck, the only Nintendo series I think even has a POSSIBILITY of a reboot is Metroid because that series is dependent on it being the life story of its ONE protagonist whose lifespan is finite.

Except Mario, Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, and Donald duck do have a story.
The last 3 in particular have a VERY detailed story.
Metroid doesn't need a reboot, have you seen Prime?
It just needs better story telling, No Other M's.

The idea of Princess Peach earning her mandate via John Carter ass-kickery has me tickled pink.

Where do I buy that game?

Overall, I think this is a pretty decent idea for a reboot - a lot more decent than some OTHER video game reboots at least - but this is extra-tricky to pull off without it backfiring spectacularly. For one thing, a more "serious" story doesn't always mean one that is going to satisfy fans, let alone satisfy people actually looking for a good story. For another thing, a reboot can't be justified with having a more complex story arc if the controls are as basic as - or god forbid, EVEN WORSE!!! - than the original game.

The Sonic series certainly has a good example of a "bad reboot" with Sonic 2006 and Shadow the Hedgehog, where even the more tolerable moments of the stories were overwhelmed by the sheer amounts of badly-flubbed attempts at "being serious", and the gameplay was even worse making the shift from 2D to 3D platforming.

Mortal Kombat (2011), on the other hand, is a good example of a "good reboot": it takes the scraps of the timeline of the Mortal Kombat series, and expands the narrative in ways that makes sense, throwing out curveballs in the plot to show it isn't telling the EXACT same story as the original games, and, on top of all that, the gameplay came a LOOOONG way from the original 1992 arcade release (as Yahtzee himself points out in his review of the game, where he spends the start ranting about the original game based on the "reboot stealing the same name as the original game" joke).

I for one can't speak for gameplay (just different enough from the original that it's not essentially a graphics mod, but not so radically different it totally alienates all the existing fans), but the story hits many of the right notes: the Mario brothers being everyday plumbers from Brooklyn, Princess Peach being another human who took control of the Mushroom Kingdom (thus implying some role beyond "dumbass in distress who gets kidnapped and re-kidnapped to create 50+ sequels"), but I think that the idea to arbitrarily make it "darker and edgier" has a greater chance of making it fail than anything else: the Mario movie is the perfect example, as most of the darker and edgier stuff falls flat since it doesn't add any more substance - it just sucked all the bright, colorful stuff that would appeal to the kiddies and "young at heart" who make up Mario's market, and was still too dumb to be taken seriously by mature audiences.

Instead, the overall tone should be light-hearted, even whimsical - just have it expanded into epic levels. I mean epic in an "epic fantasy" way, where the world overall is expanded in ways that look as bright and appealing as the overall franchise at first glance, but have depth that gets more cynical viewers interested. The environments should have the same asthetics that fans will recognize, but built beyond mere 2D platforming sections with different backgrounds - there should be more to explore, like towns and natural landmarks, and hidden areas that give benefits beyond "lots of coins here". The enemies should be more varied and challenging, but still be consistent with the franchise - or at least, not so dark and edgy they gave players nightmares. The characters should have their personalities expanded beyond their roles in the original games (especially with Princess Peach being competent enough to scrape her way to ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom, and Mario facing more challenge starting out than the completely invincible superhero he is in current canon), but not so they're a total 180 from their old identities. This last bit is particularly important, as this gives all too much room for the writers to shoehorn in cheap plot devices that end up cheapening the character.

So, that's all I got: get the canon of the Mario-verse cemented, make the characters and story more complex than Nintendo's current "graphical paint-job rerelease" trend, but don't go so into grittiness that it turns off the fanbase altogether - and, for that matter, turns off people who know "gritty" does NOT always mean "mature" - and gameplay that's beyond the bare-bones of the original, but doesn't become a clusterfuck trying to be gimmicky.

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