Jimquisition: Objectification And... Men?

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Objectification And... Men?

A common argument in the ongoing debate over gender and videogames is that women and men both are equally objectified. Is that really true?

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So i heard you like beating dead horses :U
Truth =/= Urgency
One does not trivialize the other and vice versa and one is not objectively more harmful even if it would be a lot more frequently occuring for example.

Wonder what tired old subject will be tackled next week
DRM?
Bad Business Practices?

Really starting so sound like a broken record by now but oh well...

I bet on this episode of Road Runner, the coyote tries to catch the bird and fails. Fuck this show.

Your use of forward slashes has totally changed my way of doing things. I'll do a top ten gaming babes next week.

Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".

You should do a episode about the way male characters are portrayed in video games.

I'm trying my hardest to find all the videos I've done addressing the idea of male objectification before. I must have been on some killer drugs to forget all those.

=/=/=

What? But that video wasnt scheduled until 3 weeks from now....
Wasnt next week going to be: Selfentitled gamers gonna be selfentitled?
and then after that we would have a following episode about racial stereotypes in games and alternative sexuality-tropes?

Still waiting for that lets play with facecam and funny noises eventually....

are people really complaining about your persona being too smug?
way to miss the point lol

Yeah, Jim, stop talking about this immediately!

I recall having a similar discussion about the portrayal of men vs the portrayal women in popular culture overall. For from objectifying men, this other person seemed to think that men were unfairly stereotyped as fat idiots who were completely dependent on women to save them from themselves. Now I want you to look at these pictures and ask yourself
imageimage
Which standard is harder to live up to?

jokulhaups:
Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".

Thankfully im not one of those however i will say "Lets talk about it but just not repeat ourselves with the same thing so that it doesnt become as much of a discussion and more of a pls-agree-with-me-footrace"

In the sense that, yeah i like that we're having the discussion i just dont like any discussion, discourse and debate to be onesided or to be basically all the people saying the same thing but formulated differently, thats not what debate is to me.

All very good points and arguments that have, unfortunately, been covered many times by many people for about a year now. Sure, people still use this defence so you could argue it bears repeating, but honestly this has been said ad nauseum. No new perspectives were brought up, no new ideas, just the ones covered by everyone else.

Not that it detracts from the points you've made. I firmly agree, it's just dull to see what you've seen before.

Calumon's sleeping, I'm lazy. Bleck.

Sir Christopher McFarlane:
Yeah, Jim, stop talking about this immediately!

What I like is that you posted what was *really* wanting to be said.

"This is getting old" is always a reliable way to mask, "I dislike this topic."

Good stuff. As usual, I totally agree.

Pretty nice video, you resolved the problem I had with "power fantasies" because I don't feel powerful when playing as certain characters, but I do feel like they have very strong ideals. I feel it is better to call male characters idealized than "power fantasies" since that term only applies in few games. (God of War, Warhammer 40k Space Marine) While Idelaized cna include physically weak but morally strong characters like Lee, Luigi and Link.

I think more companies could attract a female audience if they made male characters for them: Alistair and Thane are great examples of male characters made for women that don't "repel" men and are publisher friendly, but this is only a half-measure, but we need to get publishers to accept females as a audience that can sell a game before we start with truly unique and cool female protagonists.

Don't change Jim, your the Jim we know and love.

Jimothy Sterling:

Sir Christopher McFarlane:
Yeah, Jim, stop talking about this immediately!

What I like is that you posted what was *really* wanting to be said.

"This is getting old" is always a reliable way to mask, "I dislike this topic."

The only topic I dislike is Jim talking about his abs and not showing them.

Jim just a personal question, do you have thing for dead or alive beach volley ball??

The so-called "Jimquisition persona" is what got me into watching your videos in the first place. In fact, I think that it's part of what makes them stand out. Yeah, it's not likeable, but is it really important to have a "likable" talking head? Also, I bet you're doing it for comic effect anyway. It's like complaining about a stand-up comedian exaggerating things or actors in slapstick wasting pies.

I think I could have happily lived the rest of my life without hearing those sounds from Jim.

I have heard this argument before when people talk about comic book women being objectified. This is the best response I have seen.

image

Make of it what you will.

Jack and Calumon:
All very good points and arguments that have, unfortunately, been covered many times by many people for about a year now. Sure, people still use this defence so you could argue it bears repeating, but honestly this has been said ad nauseum. No new perspectives were brought up, no new ideas, just the ones covered by everyone else.

Not that it detracts from the points you've made. I firmly agree, it's just dull to see what you've seen before.

Calumon's sleeping, I'm lazy. Bleck.

It really is and thats why we use terms like broken record and beating a dead horse because well...thats all there is to it if no new perspective is brought up or if someone has already said it better before.
I really see no point in arguing and or debating for well...the sake of debating because we need to debate about the debate and need to debate the debate...*headache*

People often say to other people critisizing opinionvideos like these for: Well if you have something better to say why dont you make it yourself?

Well i would if it wasnt already said better by someone else so im not gonna waste other peoples time with simply watching a video of my opinion that is already very similar to someone elses video with for example better content value.
I have something better to say but its not different enough to justify it being said at all just for the sake of saying it, that kind of defeats the point of debate if it becomes stagnant with the same viewpoints being formulated differently time and time again

Some interesting points and well personally it breaks down like this for me. Companies trying to make it so women can't be used outside a handful of stereotypical roles is a issue but women being used in those roles is not a issue. Designers should be able to create the game that makes the most sense and plays as great as possible and if it does tropes along the way sure what ever. Games are fantasy and should be allowed to do what ever they want and if people don't want to play what they provide that is fine what ever floats your boat but don't say it is wrong or hurts people somehow. If a company is forcing designers to objectify women or develop a role outside of that it is a big problem because they are actively doing it because they are women and hold back the creative process of any game.

Jimothy Sterling:
Your use of forward slashes has totally changed my way of doing things. I'll do a top ten gaming babes next week.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////// do an episode on money for in game currency and economies this whole diablo 3 fiasco has led me to believe that the whole idea and focus is silly but I could be wrong.

Seriously though, the thing you have to remember about video game issues is that they readily solve themselves and never snowball out of control. They also lack any nuance and cannot be approached from multiple angles or points of discussions. Further, continuously championing or talking about a topic has never led to change. Also I am a starfish and I live on the moon.

Good points Jim, but, perhaps you've forgotten - there are male characters made for a female audience.

Male characters made for specifically a female audience, usually a teen female audience, over in Japan. They're those effeminate pretty boys so much of the western male audience seems to hate. So, oddly enough, when male characters are made specially 'for women' the reaction is about what the female reaction is to female characters made to appeal to men.

Personally I always rather liked the prettier eastern male characters, if for no other reason that they were a breath of fresh air, an escape, from the constant barrage of overly muscled, overly masculine and utterly nonsensical male characters of western games.

Monxeroth:
So i heard you like beating dead horses :U
Truth =/= Urgency
One does not trivialize the other and vice versa and one is not objectively more harmful even if it would be a lot more frequently occuring for example.

Wonder what tired old subject will be tackled next week
DRM?
Bad Business Practices?

Really starting so sound like a broken record by now but oh well...

Don't you think the reason people, (Not just Jim, Bob made this same point a good while ago), keep talking about these problems may be because they haven't stopped being problems?

Ignoring the problems won't make them get better.

Jimothy Sterling:
I bet on this episode of Road Runner, the coyote tries to catch the bird and fails. Fuck this show.

Every dog has his/her day. Even Coyotes.

He did finally get the Bird on Robot Chicken.

Monxeroth:

Jack and Calumon:
All very good points and arguments that have, unfortunately, been covered many times by many people for about a year now. Sure, people still use this defence so you could argue it bears repeating, but honestly this has been said ad nauseum. No new perspectives were brought up, no new ideas, just the ones covered by everyone else.

Not that it detracts from the points you've made. I firmly agree, it's just dull to see what you've seen before.

Calumon's sleeping, I'm lazy. Bleck.

It really is and thats why we use terms like broken record and beating a dead horse because well...thats all there is to it if no new perspective is brought up or if someone has already said it better before.
I really see no point in arguing and or debating for well...the sake of debating because we need to debate about the debate and need to debate the debate...*headache*

People often say to other people critisizing opinionvideos like these for: Well if you have something better to say why dont you make it yourself?

Well i would if it wasnt already said better by someone else so im not gonna waste other peoples time with simply watching a video of my opinion that is already very similar to someone elses video with for example better content value.
I have something better to say but its not different enough to justify it being said at all just for the sake of saying it, that kind of defeats the point of debate if it becomes stagnant with the same viewpoints being formulated differently time and time again

If that was your problem why did you not say that instead of suggesting I'd tackled this topic in my series already, which is factually incorrect?

If you didn't like the video because you say someone else said similar things, whatever. That's not what you said though. You said my show had covered this exact topic before.

Monxeroth:

jokulhaups:
Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".

Thankfully I'm not one of those however I will say "Lets talk about it but just not repeat ourselves with the same thing so that it doesn't become as much of a discussion and more of a "pls-agree-with-me-footrace""

In the sense that, yeah i like that we're having the discussion I just don't like any discussion, discourse and debate to be one-sided or to be basically all the people saying the same thing but formulated differently, that's not what debate is to me.

Actually that is what a debate is. The point of a debate is to get your point across, and change people's minds. You do this by reiterating your point in as many different ways as it takes to get the furthest person to your side. That is the how you debate, and even a simple discussion.

Monxeroth:

jokulhaups:
Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".

Thankfully im not one of those however i will say "Lets talk about it but just not repeat ourselves with the same thing so that it doesnt become as much of a discussion and more of a pls-agree-with-me-footrace"

In the sense that, yeah i like that we're having the discussion i just dont like any discussion, discourse and debate to be onesided or to be basically all the people saying the same thing but formulated differently, thats not what debate is to me.

This is almost like debating how Creationism has equal standing with Evolution as a science.
Arguments can be one-sided and still be interesting.

Jimothy Sterling:

Sir Christopher McFarlane:
Yeah, Jim, stop talking about this immediately!

What I like is that you posted what was *really* wanting to be said.

"This is getting old" is always a reliable way to mask, "I dislike this topic."

Sure it is but same goes for the reverse situation where someone who faces counterarguments or critique goes "Oh youre just saying this is getting old because you really dont like this and you dont want me to talk about it QQQ" please stop sounding like tom preston haha.

Its the same way people label other people who disagree with them on the internet as "trolls and haters". Theyre not trolls and haters they just have a different viewpoint which is a healthy thing for a debate and since the one being critisized to begin with doesnt like different viewpoints or critique well its very reliable and easy to say "eurgh, stupid trolls and haters hating on my videos because theyre haters"

Jack and Calumon:
All very good points and arguments that have, unfortunately, been covered many times by many people for about a year now. Sure, people still use this defence so you could argue it bears repeating, but honestly this has been said ad nauseum. No new perspectives were brought up, no new ideas, just the ones covered by everyone else.

Not that it detracts from the points you've made. I firmly agree, it's just dull to see what you've seen before.

Calumon's sleeping, I'm lazy. Bleck.

You'd be surprised to find out just how many people don't know or haven't seen things that you would think that everyone should have heard about already.

I know people who haven't seen Star Wars, anime fans who haven't watched Cowboy Bebop, shooter fans who haven't played Half Life, Half Life 2, or Portal.

Just because you think everyone has heard this already, doesn't mean they have and if a tenth of the audience Jim has has learned something new, then I would say this is a video well made.

Sepko:

Monxeroth:

jokulhaups:
Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".

Thankfully im not one of those however i will say "Lets talk about it but just not repeat ourselves with the same thing so that it doesnt become as much of a discussion and more of a pls-agree-with-me-footrace"

In the sense that, yeah i like that we're having the discussion i just dont like any discussion, discourse and debate to be onesided or to be basically all the people saying the same thing but formulated differently, thats not what debate is to me.

This is almost like debating how Creationism has equal standing with Evolution as a science.
Arguments can be one-sided and still be interesting.

Sure they can but in most cases theyre not.
Consistency is good sure but, just repeating for the sake of repeating makes no progress whatsoever towards anything.
It is and always will be more interesting when it is two-sided however.
Yes one-sidedness can SOMETIMES be interesting in a few rare cases (this isnt one of them btw)
but more often than not the two-sided debate is healthier and a lot more interesting

Monxeroth, it is not everyone has seen all internet videos before. Even if it is a covered topic, that does not make it any less valid or relevant. I see people saying things like this all the time, as recent as the whole Dragon`s Crown issue.

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