The Big Picture: Dumping Irony

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Uhm.... stupid question from someone not US based:
Why is the title of the show "Chuck Norris: Karate Kommando", written with a "K" ?

Shouldn't it be Commando, with a "C" ?

We're generation X. We experience neither spiritual highs nor lows.

Really? What's that like?

Meh.

geier:
Uhm.... stupid question from someone not US based:
Why is the title of the show "Chuck Norris: Karate Kommando", written with a "K" ?

Shouldn't it be Commando, with a "C" ?

Yes it is supposed to be a C but occasionally companies will substitute other letters in the titles as a marketing gimmick.

Basically they just did it so that Commando would synch better with Karate. It also probably makes it easier to trademark the title.

I feel like the whole 'like what you like' idea is pretty recent, so people aren't used to it yet. I mean, the whole gay rights movement is all about people being allowed to enjoy things that other people don't like or understand. Before, with things like civil rights, it was about giving all humans equality, but now we've moved past physical forms and into mental and emotional ones, dealing with the rights of thoughts and feelings rather than bodies. Unfortunately, giving people the freedom to think what they want to isn't as fun as it sounds, as can be seen in almost any flame war. I think the real problem isn't that people are afraid to be themselves, but that they fear the backlash from their peers. When people come out and tell the world that they like things that are stupid or bad or even mildly offensive, it's the job of the world to accept that. Within reason, of course, but where we have to draw the line is impossible to know.

I think the elephant in the room that Bob forgot to mention, was that for Generation X, enjoying pop culture was a taboo. Whereas for Generation Y and beyond, it's something that is celebrated, and almost required to exist.

We're living in different times. Generation Xers grew up with their elders hating every kind of music or entertainment made after 1975, and were told we were worthless for liking it. Current generations basically grow up with constant approval, and their parents feeding them whatever media they like, or at least allowing them access to what they want.

We didn't have the internet to satiate ourselves, we were fed what the Baby Boomers and even "The Greatest Generation" wanted us to see, with little choice in the matter. Speaking of Generation X, I thought in the last episode, Bob mentioned that he was in his early 30s or something? That's Generation Y, not X.

Thanks Xenedus, i thought so.

For me, the whole irony thing showed itself as a deep, cynical, and desperate blight when crap like the Scott Pilgrim graphic novels/movie took off. "Oh look, he's in a band with the word Bob-omb....(groan)....oh look, there's a Smashing Pumpkins Zero t-shirt.....(wanders off to shoot one's self)."

I knew something eerie was afoot at that point, when irony had evolved from an artistic device into a form of entertainment currency. For me, irony certainly has a very distinct shelf-life but recent years have shown that it can quickly rot into the stylish nihilism that characterizes the worst short-run hipster crud we've been seeing more and more of in the arts, in entertainment, in attitudes, and in dialogue.

Personally I never understood the use of the term "guilty pleasure" when applied to things that we all do.

some examples I've heard include... Watching cartoons, reading comic books, being a wrestling fan and going to the movies in the middle of the afternoon. HOW ARE THESE GUILTY PLEASURES!?

A guilty pleasure is something that you SHOULD feel bad about enjoying. Like the people who slow down to look at a train wreak or a car accident.

BTW if you thought Chuck Norris getting a cartoon was something...Check this out!

The problem during the 90's was that society was not ready for people to embrace geek culture. So if you liked something that wasn't "cool", irony was a defense to hide behind. With things how they are today, you can be a geek and that's ok. I don't think that you have to be ironic to enjoy something, but irony in the case of Chuck Norris is still (was) kind of fun in itself.

FYI: He-man and Thundercats, always sucked.

"How could I not show the whole thing?"

Tact? Good taste? Sanity?

...

Never mind.

And here I thought I was the only one that remembered Hawk the Slayer.

Yeah Irony is cool but the reason for the defence is because strangely enough is because of the previous generation. They're still around and still holding the keys to the stuff we want to rise in to. Heck My parents still ask when I'm going to 'grow out of video games'.

But it's changing, I mean look at the Brony movement, (but not for long). These things had a big part in our collective childhood and we're not about to let them go. If we did we really wood be the cynical slacker generation we were predicted to be.

I'm not sure i like anything ironically. Maybe the venture brothers (bull shit I love that show) but i do go from hating something to 180 and loving it later.

We're still getting there bob. And I liked eye for an eye out. I liked MIA. I hated.. I loathed.. I despised walker texas ranger and even more importantly anyone who liked walker texas ranger. But lets get off that.

Your whole point sucks ass, as you view fast and the furious as a guilty pleasure. You smugly look down your nose at it and feel you've done it a giant favor by admitting you like it. As if "oh My God i might lost my street cred I don't have with real critics if i get caught liking an action movie."

your whole point is something you.. yes you need to sit down with and take notice off. you are a bad satire of your own generation bob, wishing you were some mix match of comic book guy and kevin smith.

your not proud of your generation and you feel we shouldn't be either.

I love Kim Possible and I am not ashamed!

EDIT: Although, seriously, that show was good. Most of what I watched as a kid is pretty unbearable now (even the Pokemon cartoon, which I wasn't expecting) but Kim Possible is a class act by most people's standards

This episode just seemed like an excuse for Bob to showcase that ridiculous Chuck cartoon intro.

Nice on Bob! Thank for that!

Well I happen to like Chuck Norris and the shows/movies ect, and if that sticks in Bobs craw.. all the better tbh

Does this mean I can't call it ironic that I hate the "Drink and Party Culture" and yet still enjoy a bit of the music that sings about it?

...Or that It's annoying that a lot of music sounds the same now, but I listen to some of it anyways, because "hey, doesn't mean its not catchy"?

Should I just call it what is is? A "Guilty Pleasure"?

Meanwhile... I genuinely don't have any problems with My Little Pony, and I watch it and enjoy it... And I have no intention of calling it "Ironic".

That's something that I'd probably just call a "guilty pleasure" though because some parts of culture still look down on it.

Naturally, there seems to be some level of disconnect between the things I normally call "Ironic" which are guilty pleasures, and the things I call "Guilty Pleasures" which are really just things that people mock me for liking (Even though there's no reason to dislike them).

misterprickly:
Personally I never understood the use of the term "guilty pleasure" when applied to things that we all do.

some examples I've heard include... Watching cartoons, reading comic books, being a wrestling fan and going to the movies in the middle of the afternoon. HOW ARE THESE GUILTY PLEASURES!?

A guilty pleasure is something that you SHOULD feel bad about enjoying. Like the people who slow down to look at a train wreak or a car accident.

BTW if you thought Chuck Norris getting a cartoon was something...Check this out!

Yup! That brings back memories. These days, an R-rated movie being pitched as an animated series would get you run out of town by angry parents.

I'm in complete agreement. I enjoy things that are not typical of my age group or things that are not made to appeal to the 30-35 adult white male demographic. As an adult man, I have had to justify my likes and dislikes to friends and family alike, and I always greet it with the same attitude and words. Those words are: "As adults we should all recognize that it's Ok to enjoy things that others may find childish or dislike in general, and it's OK because so long as we are not hurting anyone in enjoying it, there is nothing wrong with it." Great episode Bob. I'm with you, it's OK to genuinely like things because you enjoy them, and you don't need to make excuses as to why you enjoy them. I have never liked anything ironically, and I never will like things ironically.

You know what? Just ignore this post.

Challenge Accepted.

Chuck Norris movie that I like: Lone Wolf McQuade

Agreed, like what you like, hate what you hate, move on with life.

Which is why I'm openly vocal about being against Uncharted in almost every way and praise Starbreeze's Syndicate no matter how many people who never actually played it say it sucks.

Yeah, pretty much hate how irony is used today. People who use that justification piss me off to no end. Standing behind "irony" is pretty backhanded toward what that person is appreciating. After all, it's the camp humor or spectacularly over the top and out of place moments in a show, film, or game that the viewer is drawn to.

Think of the dialogue in Symphony of the Night or the first Devil May Cry. Or Will Shatner's acting in Star Trek. Or the zaniness in '60s Spider-Man cartoons. They aren't terrible as much as they are ridiculously camp. These exaggerations are the parts viewers remember most, and they remain as fond memories that are brought back and parodied today. Pissing on something and still claiming you enjoy it makes you look the fool.

Thunderous Cacophony:
Did anyone else think that Super-Ninja sounded exactly like Cobra Commander? (in addition to looking like him)

OT: I've got $10 that says that someone brings up bronies in the first page of comments.

The Expandables 2 were terrible. Chuck Norris actually made it funier. He over the top persona made me actually laught out loud in the movie as it was not based on his carreer as a movie star, but it was about the internet pun he became.

Worgen:
I think chunk norris's popularity is the name, hes got a very recognizable name.

I also think that irony like your talking about might be diminishing. I mean we have a big population of people who are willing to wholeheartedly embrace this. image
When pretty much anything that is geared towards girls or children is seen as something that you can only enjoy 'ironically'.

That really did a lot to damage the Irony requirement for liking things. If people can really like mlp, why not Adventure Time? Gravity Falls is awesome, Invader Zim deserved more seasons, I will wear that classic Voltron shirt, ext.

In the same way I think it hurt Irony heavy shows like Family Guy. Not really Robot Chicken since that seems to embrace nostalgia rather than mock it.

You know, someone told me transformers were silly after the second movie came out. I forgave the first movie A LOT and convinced myself I enjoyed it, but I didn't, and honestly transformers did a lot for me growing up. I don't get angry at a lot, but some things do anger me, and Mr. Bay has turned me off transformers by missing a big point, a point that can not be summed up with "Come on, it's for kids! Technically, this is a family film man!" which is what my friend was telling me to defend the Transformers 2. That, and how could I NOT like it "Ironically", apparently the way I obviously loved the toys I still collected.

I've always unabashedly loved the transformers. I outgrew other things like G.I.Joe, He-Man, and believe it or not, Rainbow Brite, but NOT Transformers! They were just my thing, rather than just be an action figure where I HAD to play with them beating each other up in awesome epic stories I made up, I could just appreciate not only that they turned into something else, but HOW. I loved how they came together to be something else entirely.

As I grew up, I grew into more complex things that did the same, like Models of cars, and Gundam Models too. These hobbies often cost more, and once you were finished, you were finished and just had a thing to display. They still didn't sum up what made transformers awesome. I still collect them, and I still love them JUST FOR THAT.

But then there was the writing, which while it may not have been GOOD, did things for me that nothing else could have because of WHEN I watched it. It introduced me to concepts such as the villain who dreams of being the bigger villain, who is weaker but an opportunist. Heroes that were so big they couldn't fall, but then they do! Tragedy was introduced to my young mind through transformers, and this is something that can probably only be appreciated by kids who grew up at the same time as me. That being said, I think everyone has some "transformers" as well, and when someone opens up and shows me something they love like that, that is what I listen for. How did this "silly little thing" change someones perspective for good. I have NEVER loved transformers ironically, and I have NEVER feared that someone might make me feel bad for it. Rather, I'd love for them to try, because they aren't winning that one.

That being said, this is why I hate this "Irony" trend. I originally hated it for that god awful song from an artist I otherwise don't hate(but it's a really really really bad song!), but it has since grown to this. Because pretty much any generation that wasn't raised in the 70s(yes I'll include 80s AND 90s kids in this one) is supposed to be desensitized, sarcastic, ironic, and aloof, then we don't care when people drag that which is precious to us through the mud, and when we put up any complaint, we get "relax, it's for kids!".

Well you know what, SO WAS THE ORIGINAL! And that is why I LOVED IT! This new shit isn't that old stuff, and I DON'T LOVE IT! I FUCKING HATE IT!

Yeah, The guilty pleasure thing doesn't make any sense to me, and the subversion of that is, at it's heart, what geekdom *is*. While other groups define themselves by what their peers like, we define our peers by what we like, which, to me, makes a helluva lot more sense.

Yeah, you know why we liked all that bad stuff from the 80s? Because we were 10 years old (give or take five to ten more years)!! We simply didn't know better... But the people who created all that stuff were a lot older and did know better and did not care.

I see a lot more love and dedication to the entertainment products done today by that generation that grew up in the 80s, even when based on something that really stunk even back then!

TripleDaddy:
Challenge Accepted.

Chuck Norris movie that I like: Lone Wolf McQuade

YES, F**K YES...Thank you sir you took the words right out of my mouth. Sorry Bob but just because you think Chuck is terrible and no one should like him isn't going to stop me from enjoying the awesomeness that is Chuck Norris movies. I am going to keep on loving Chuck, Seagal, Stallone, Arnold, Lundgren, Rutger and all the other countless ridiculous 80s action stars and if you dont like it then you can eat my.... (yea I wont finish that line)



This reminds me of how when I was little and I brought up a thing that was unpopular when talking to my friends and they would say "Ew, you actually WATCH that?" to which the go to response was "Just to see how dumb it was!"

MB202:
I never understood the use of irony... Like how the Hell can you tell if something's being ironic instead of just playing it all straight? I never could tell. Nor can I tell when someone's being sarcastic with me... sometimes... That makes me hate irony, or when people try to use irony and fail because nobody realized it was supposed to be ironic. Hell, what does irony even TRULY mean, anyway...

Whether or not its intentionally ironic or not is irrelevant in this case, this video was about enjoying something ironically. It's how percieve it that makes your enjoyment of it ironic or genuine.

BigTuk:
And here I thought I was the only one that remembered Hawk the Slayer.

Yeah Irony is cool but the reason for the defence is because strangely enough is because of the previous generation. They're still around and still holding the keys to the stuff we want to rise in to. Heck My parents still ask when I'm going to 'grow out of video games'.

But it's changing, I mean look at the Brony movement, (but not for long). These things had a big part in our collective childhood and we're not about to let them go. If we did we really wood be the cynical slacker generation we were predicted to be.

"I punched a bloke in the face once for saying Hawk the Slayer was rubbish."

I watched Hawk the Slayer based on Bilbo Bagshot's recommendation. I liked it in an unironic way and I usually don't care for 80's low budget fare.

Huh.
"Crime" is such an interesting thing.
Over here, it's unlawful to refer to the extreme right as "neonazis", because they hold a bunch of power in parliament and are popular.
And it is not illegal to pirate whatever music, films, or software you want from the internet.
You also get to drink at the age of 18.
People should keep in mind that laws are completely arbitrary.

image
This is what I tell people who enjoy 'Twilight', as long as you know a good portion of it is proberly not good for you then why the fuck do you care what others have to say? Its like enjoying sweets, you will proberly get diabetes if you eat to many but as long as you know this than people can't argue, its your choice.

Ukomba:

Worgen:
I think chunk norris's popularity is the name, hes got a very recognizable name.

I also think that irony like your talking about might be diminishing. I mean we have a big population of people who are willing to wholeheartedly embrace this. image
When pretty much anything that is geared towards girls or children is seen as something that you can only enjoy 'ironically'.

That really did a lot to damage the Irony requirement for liking things. If people can really like mlp, why not Adventure Time? Gravity Falls is awesome, Invader Zim deserved more seasons, I will wear that classic Voltron shirt, ext.

In the same way I think it hurt Irony heavy shows like Family Guy. Not really Robot Chicken since that seems to embrace nostalgia rather than mock it.

I don't think Invader Zim ever wore the 'ironic' badge, I think its shear freaking weirdness/randomness/gross factor made it enjoyable for older fans, in the same way as 'Ren & Stimpy'. However, those other shows are a real slap in the face of the ironic argument, they're just legit good (although I have never seen Voltron so I can't really argue on its behalf).

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