The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race

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Stryc9:

ResonanceSD:
The Creator Speaks! AND I LISTEN!!

Stryc9:
I really wonder if Microsoft isn't doing all this shit with the Xbone so that they can have the easy excuse of "We're discontinuing our console gaming department due to poor sales of our last console." or not. It really seems like with all the mixed messages and that half-ass announcement makes it look like their heart really isn't in it anymore and that may be for the best for Microsoft as a whole.

^Why would they launch a console they wanted to fail? They could just..you know, NOT release the console.

How about they're going to try and pass this bullshit and if it sells that's great and if it doesn't they have a ready made excuse to bow out of the market?

Why would anyone blow hundreds of millions of dollars? Companies are adverse to risk taking by definition, this is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I've seen, ever. The Xb1 is a logical progression in terms of being an entertainment hub that began in the X360 era, nothing more.

LordTerminal:

Ultratwinkie:

LordTerminal:

No it's still not worth it Yahtzee. Not when it costs thousands of dollars for a man to accomplish. Shame on you and everyone who agrees with this. I'd like my games to be affordable without having to buy a bunch of random pieces that cost the price of an actual console.

Forget PC, it's the handheld market that's the true master race.

A good PC is about 700$ now. It blows consoles away.

A PC on the level of the next gen consoles is 500$ max.

Consoles are not the bargains they once were.

A WiiU costs $250. A PS3 costs $250. A 3DS costs $180. You're not convincing me. If anything, you've proven me right that gaming PCs are expensive. I'm not paying that.

He said next gen, not last gen. WiiU doesn't count for the purposes of the price argument because it is low spec relative to its competition. And I'm not even sure why you brought a handheld into the discussion. I'll eventually get a 3DS, but it's not likely to be the main system of people who don't spend a lot of time stuck on public transportation.

Also, a PC has a much larger game library than any of the above.

Yahtzee's last few paragraphs about backwards-compatibility really hit home for me. In this age of digital distribution and server-reliant functionality, games are becoming ever more ephemeral. In ten years time I will still be able to play Zelda on an NES, but I won't be able to play XBLA titles even though my XBOX account continues. It's a disgrace.

True backwards-compatibility is hard, but some things are constant. They could charge for some kind of conversion, go down the GaiKai route, or (such as when Minecraft gets an inevitable release on X1) simply say 'Hey, you've bought this game before, here's access!' They're a massive company. They have these options.

I'm switching to Steam next-gen. At least then my games won't be taken away every time I upgrade.

Lord_Gremlin:
Hm, I'm still more interested in PS4 than PC. Console is supposed to be - no settings and no fiddling around required. Put the game in and play. As for xbox, MS consoles were shit, are shit and will be shit and I don't really give a shit.
Well, shit that's a lot of shit in one post.

I was going to reply to your comment in a more wordy fashion, but someone has already done. I think you should consider watching this video.

EvilPicnic:

True backwards-compatibility is hard, but some things are constant. They could charge for some kind of conversion, go down the GaiKai route, or (such as when Minecraft gets an inevitable release on X1) simply say 'Hey, you've bought this game before, here's access!' They're a massive company. They have these options.

I'm switching to Steam next-gen. At least then my games won't be taken away every time I upgrade.

Yup! PC is always backwards-compatible, for ever and ever, baby! Want to play a game from the around the time of the last console generation? Just boot it and it'll run. Want to boot up a 30-year old game? DOSBOX and it's done.

I don't know about you guys, but once I bought the gaming PC I rarely change anything with it.
After it's run its course, 2-5 years, give or take, I buy a completely new set.
Sure, it costs me between 700-1000€, but if I bought a new console every 6 years, paying, what, 500-600€ for a PS3, for example, plus a better television set, plus peripherals, plus extra controlers, plus a constantly higher game price,
......
I just think it averages out.
As it is known to PC builders: Never change a running system. Only if absolutely necessary.
Oh, and when I built that new PC?
Chances are I can salvage parts of the old one, like hard drives, power supply pack, and the tower case (Even though mine doesn't have any pretentious shiny lights. I just wanted to point that out.).

I feel the same way. I was always a console scrub. Steam moved me over to PC a bit more, what with it's *GASP* reasonable prices. Now, I still like the feel of a controller in my hands and sofa under my back, but now consoles are getting less and less dedicated to gaming, more and more online for reasons I never asked for, they're essentially turning themselves into PCs. Very very crap PCs. So I'm thinking, well fuck you Microsoft, if you want me to buy a PC then I may as well go all the way. So now I do most of by gaming on PC, and it's the console market that drove me to do so.

Sergey Sund:
I don't know about you guys, but once I bought the gaming PC I rarely change anything with it.
After it's run its course, 2-5 years, give or take, I buy a completely new set.
Sure, it costs me between 700-1000€, but if I bought a new console every 6 years, paying, what, 500-600€ for a PS3, for example, plus a better television set, plus peripherals, plus extra controlers, plus a constantly higher game price,
......
I just think it averages out.
As it is known to PC builders: Never change a running system. Only if absolutely necessary.
Oh, and when I built that new PC?
Chances are I can salvage parts of the old one, like hard drives, power supply pack, and the tower case (Even though mine doesn't have any pretentious shiny lights. I just wanted to point that out.).

I tend to upgrade RAM memory once during a 4-year PC lifetime. Quick, no-fuss upgrade. Also, buy new HDDs when the ones I'm using are full to the brim. Usually by the time I upgrade to a new PC, the tower case is all rusted, so I buy a new one. Other than that, yeah, 3 to 5 years on a build, then pass it on to whoever wants it (usually donate it to my mother or some other family member), and buy a new one. The monitor is a separate entity, and may or may not be upgraded along with the PC.

The very fact that "PC master race" was taken as a badge of honor should be a fairly clear indication that the worst thing about PC gaming is PC gamers. inb4 the "you just hatin" dismissal: I'm typing this on a nice(-ish. still wont run Farcry 3 worth shit) I just don't post my specs everywhere because unlike some people I don't need to try and convince others to bask in the magnificence of my massive E-peen and marvel at my disposable income.

Just saying (though the parts were on sale) I built a pc for $414 (when things were more on sale) that runs pretty much any game near max at 40+ fps. Well. It was 414 (now 460$) after rebate (I was too lazy to get all the rebates).

Not to mention the graphics card usually comes with one or two free new games.

So PC gaming really isn't all that expensive at all. Not to mention that you are going to have a computer anyways for things like word processing, photo editing, and various tasks. Even tablets usually need a computer to connect to.

So lets assume a 150$ pc for your everyday tasks. 550$ to match the ps4-150 for what you would normally spend on a computer=$400. Same price as what a ps4 is predicted to cost. Not only that but you get a free game or two from it and also access to almost every pc game.

If you don't already have access to an operating system it will cost more though. But again you would be paying for that anyways.

If it matches the specs for the ps4, it means most likely it will last the entire generation of next gen, so it will last 5-6 years.

Of course, pc gaming will always be more expensive gaming than buying an old console at a yard sale with games. There consoles will have an advantage.

But it isn't as expensive as people think at all. Not to mention when you bring in things like Good old games, steam sales and free to play games you end up spending less over time due to the software costing less.

Scow2:
Call me a traditionalist, but why the heck Microsoft and Sony are tearing up the core strengths of their consoles continues to elude me. However, I think Yahtzee's view of humans is kinda distorted. There really is the demographic he doesn't believe in.

There fixed it for you. Sony does not require online nor stop used game markets. As for previous installments of games, their hands are tied by the way technology works, the small pain now will make it easier next gen and ensure backwards comparability. An unfortunate issue due to the cell processor the PS3 used.

ResonanceSD:

LordTerminal:

No it's still not worth it Yahtzee. Not when it costs thousands of dollars for a man to accomplish. Shame on you and everyone who agrees with this. I'd like my games to be affordable without having to buy a bunch of random pieces that cost the price of an actual console.

Toms Hardware routinely build gaming pc's that cost less than $1k

Even better, Maximum PC frequently lets people know how to build gaming PCs that cost anywhere between 400 and 650 bones. It's not gonna have the best stuff in it, but it'll more than facilitate you if you happen to be jonesin' for some PC gaming action.

While I've had my reserves with PC gaming (largely because I play a lot of fighters and action games, and I can barely use a keyboard to type let alone play a fucking game), the upcoming console gen is making me take a nice long look at exactly why I built my rig the way I did (pretty expensive). Let's just say I regret overlooking it for so long.

I still love my consoles though, and I feel that we're all going to be getting a lot more intimate with each other by this time next year.

I prefer settings and shit to have control of, the cookie cutter approach SUCKS.

With so little you can do so much more than with a console thats locked up and bleeds you dry for games that become 30$ after 6 months.....

I'm still waiting on the 3Ds to hook up to a tv so I can enjoy it, least the 2nd vita revision dose so I hear.

Hyakunin Isshu:

lacktheknack:

Hyakunin Isshu:
Lord! I don't even know where to start with old Ben Croshaw! For One thing, he keeps boxing in Sony with Microsoft, as if Sony is going to ever block used games. Sony said they won't! Get your facts straight. Sony may or may not do something about used games in the future, but they didn't say anything yet, so stop attacking them, as if they did!

And secondly, he's wrong on every point. From games being more expensive to create, to "we always had backwards compatibility back in my day" He is mostly wrong.

In other words, we really, really, *really* need new consoles, for a fresh new start and for new ideas to be made. Period.

P.S. about that stupid Bertha, what if Bertha got Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U instead? If Bertha wanted to play Mass Effect 1 or 2, then.... well then you would need a PS3/360 to play them all, wouldn't you?

How does one platform change ruin his Assassin's Creed example?

Like... at all?

It's unfortunate that Mass Effect only has 3 on a Nintendo console, but's it's equally as unfortunate that Assassin's Creed DOES have the previous games on the previous console but they can't be played on the new one.

And of those two situations, guess which is easier to fix?

Also, about the new ideas that consoles would allow... so far, I hate all of them. That's a bad sign, don't you think?

1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan ;) )

2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'

3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.

4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!

1. You kind of utterly failed to get that point across in the first point. In fact, you berated him for being "wrong on every point". If you say he's wrong on every point, and ALSO that he's made it into a two-sided issue... then doesn't that mean that you're ALSO making it a two-sided issue, just from the other side?

2. It's understandable if a console iteration changes absolutely EVERYTHING, so it can't be backward-compatible. (Where do you jam the Mario 64 cartridge in a Gamecube?) However, when the Gamecube gave way to the Wii, even though the controller, hardware, software and much else changed, it still took the same input (tiny disc) and lo and behold, it was backwards compatible. However, the Xbox 360 -> Xbox 1 and PS3 -> PS4 changes only hardware and software. There's no bloody reason they can't have a simple architecture emulator on it to run the old media (I have several emulators OPEN right now, they're common and not excessively hard to make). NONE.

As for X-COM, lrn2DosBox. Seriously. If you buy X-COM from gog.com, all they give you is an exact copy of the original physical copy wrapped up with a DosBox emulator.

Here, it's right here: http://www.dosbox.com/

It requires a bit of experimentation, but that's the one downside to it being free (and if you're of a certain disposition, getting the game working is fun and rewarding in and of itself).

3. It's not a new thing, but it still sucks, especially because there's no bloody reason for it. I understand if I play FFVII, and find out that I have to play the first one on an NES (you don't anymore, by the way, you can get it on your phone). However, imagine if you bought a sequel on a PC that ran Windows 7, and found out that the first game would ONLY run on Windows XP, despite not actually relying on XP-specific features. This would be annoying enough. What makes it worse is that 64 bit Windows 7 -> 32 bit Windows XP emulators exist (I have one), but they won't do an Xbox One -> Xbox 360 emulator.

This leaves the question hanging: WHY NOT?

4. Just to show you how utterly lost you are, Half Life 2 WAS last-gen.

Furthermore, what's so special about games like Portal? Portal used the idea of "set two locations, touch one, teleport to the other". This was based off a pretty crappy student project. Furthermore, there's a flash game based on Portal, which is the technological equivalent of an early PS1. They didn't need the Xbox hardware they used, and they most certainly didn't need the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware they used to add the various gels and extra character they added to Portal 2.

Also, there's nothing inherently excellent about your other examples that are exclusive to this gen. Red Faction's first game, for instance, was released in 2001 on early PS2 hardware. The idea of "alter the landscape" was already in effect. Dead Rising just uses lots of NPCs and creative weaponizing that isn't inherent to the hardware. Every cool weapon combo or use was programmed in individually, which is how it's been done since video game characters began picking up items. And while newer hardware was needed to allow for higher-res models in large groups, it's hardly a new idea.

XCOM: Enemy Unknown is NOT a new idea. You damn well know this, seeing how you were saying that you can't play the first X-COM mere paragraphs ago.

Etc, etc.

You wanna know what kind of cool new ideas the new consoles from Sony and Microsoft CAN achieve? They can do better graphics and AI. That's... more or less all. And the AI isn't even all that useful outside of 4X, RTS and simulation games, which the consoles aren't going to have, because they haven't changed the controller that was stopping those genres in the first place.

Look, I'm all for new consoles that do cool things, but currently, what Xbox One is offering me is a platter of social networking integrated features, a cable box, and a permanent spy camera with none of the good stuff that you seem to think it will manage. There's currently NO reason to buy one any more than I would buy a new cable box with the words "CONTAINS UNCONTROLLABLE CAMERA FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE" plastered on it. Sony doesn't seem to have any cool new things up the chute either.

At least the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii and is actually trying a REAL attempt at innovation, but at this point, Yahtzee's pretty damn justified in thinking that PC gaming is an avenue he should try out again.

@lacktheknack: I've never understood the argument that "a bit of experimentation" is a bad thing. Chances are its just a matter of reading the readme again or even accessing the wellspring of knowledge and guides on the internet. Consoles of all stripes engaged in exactly that kind of activity at one stage or another, it may just have been me being a little slow but I often had trouble picking up on the nuances of certain game mechanics without reading through the manual that came with said game.

The "cost" of PC's is repeatedly mentioned here. I'm entirely certain that I could, right now, order and build a PC that would run (random example) Tomb Raider as well as it runs on an Xbox360 for around 400euro. The price difference isn't that broad, and when you consider that you can use a PC for things other than what Microsoft allows you to (and access MP without paying a subscription fee) it easily balances out.

Why don't we all play what we like and not worry about anyone else?

No?
Didn't think so....

I think takfar on page four deserves a bleedin' medal. Now that is what I want to see! Straight to the point and friendly help! I'm going to paste that into a note for the harrowing days when I need to replace my old Comrade Box.

Thing is, even if Microsoft certainly has been eager to help, it wasn't the rapidly diminishing perks of console gaming that made me stick to PC. It was all the weird little titles that the console publishers wouldn't have given the time of day to. Like Operation Flashpoint, and its true heir, the ArmA-series. Or the ridiculously complex titles Paradox keep making. Playing PC, to me, means playing a fascinating, rough gem some lone person, somewhere, have been lovingly coding and patching for years. Often available for free, or for a very reasonable price. Not to mention the mods, which even making wading through the refuse to find the ones you like all worth it.

It's certainly more problematic and fiddly than console gaming, but to me, it's well worth the effort.

Now, a good, or even great, PC might be discouragingly expensive, but if you're willing to settle for the next best, I'd say you can come off fairly cheaply. And remember that even the cheapest PC you could find will still have alot of utility outside gaming.

I see the title and think "You called...?" expecting some hate for being an arrogant neckbeard or something. Not saying I don't deserve some of that (minus the neckbeard part, I'm skinny and prefer to keep my beard on my face), I just found the PC experience, as someone who console gamed almost all of his life was a million times better, so much though that I'm a little "screw you! It's better!" when it comes to the PC/Console discussion. Then I saw it was an article by Yahtzee.

And he was saying some very true things...

PuckFuppet:
@lacktheknack: I've never understood the argument that "a bit of experimentation" is a bad thing. Chances are its just a matter of reading the readme again or even accessing the wellspring of knowledge and guides on the internet. Consoles of all stripes engaged in exactly that kind of activity at one stage or another, it may just have been me being a little slow but I often had trouble picking up on the nuances of certain game mechanics without reading through the manual that came with said game.

I just learned earlier in this thread that some console players don't want to change to PC because of freaking DRIVERS.

If you can't even treat DRIVERS (SERIOUSLY, DRIVERS) as neutral things, you'll have to watch your wording and context with "a little experimentation", that's for damn sure.

I just realized with this article: Microsoft execs looked at Abercrombie & Fitch's business model and went "That's a good idea. Let's do it!"

lacktheknack:

PuckFuppet:
@lacktheknack: I've never understood the argument that "a bit of experimentation" is a bad thing. Chances are its just a matter of reading the readme again or even accessing the wellspring of knowledge and guides on the internet. Consoles of all stripes engaged in exactly that kind of activity at one stage or another, it may just have been me being a little slow but I often had trouble picking up on the nuances of certain game mechanics without reading through the manual that came with said game.

I just learned earlier in this thread that some console players don't want to change to PC because of freaking DRIVERS.

If you can't even treat DRIVERS (SERIOUSLY, DRIVERS) as neutral things, you'll have to watch your wording and context with "a little experimentation", that's for damn sure.

>GFX card has disc/USB marked "DRIVERS/INSTALL GUIDE"
>Access disc/USB
>Auto-run opens splash window with "INSTALL DRIVERS" as option
>Click "INSTALL DRIVERS"
>Success
>Read INSTALL GUIDE
>Discover links to driver update page
>Download/Install as needed

Thing is I remember when I first got my Xbox360, had to play Halo 4, I spent a good four hours trying to figure out why I couldn't find the "skip" option on half of what it wanted me to do. Why do I need an Xbox Arcade Avatar? Why is this required for me to play my game? I have to subscribe to a digital service to play online? I already have an internet connection...

Yellowbeard:

Doom972:
How many PC gamers actually continuously upgrade their machine? It's expensive and pointless. I'm a PC gamer and have friends who are also PC gamers and I never witnessed this phenomenon.

I agree. A good $1000 rig will last for years with, at most, a new video card and an extra hard drive.

I have, if not for the sake of upgrading itself, I've had to do it when one part goes bad and I have to buy a replacement. I've been building PCs since 2006 and since then I've just about had to replace EVERYTHING to keep the rig upgaded and - most of all - working!

-replaced a case 1x
-replaced a motherboad 1x
-replaced Ram 3x
-replaced processor 1x
-replaced the power sourse 2x
-replaced the hard drive 1x
-replaced graphics card 2x

Only thing - up till now - I haven't replaced that remains from my old 2006 model is the disc player, but that's gone bad too now finally... guess it's time to replace that too. :/

PuckFuppet:

lacktheknack:

PuckFuppet:
@lacktheknack: I've never understood the argument that "a bit of experimentation" is a bad thing. Chances are its just a matter of reading the readme again or even accessing the wellspring of knowledge and guides on the internet. Consoles of all stripes engaged in exactly that kind of activity at one stage or another, it may just have been me being a little slow but I often had trouble picking up on the nuances of certain game mechanics without reading through the manual that came with said game.

I just learned earlier in this thread that some console players don't want to change to PC because of freaking DRIVERS.

If you can't even treat DRIVERS (SERIOUSLY, DRIVERS) as neutral things, you'll have to watch your wording and context with "a little experimentation", that's for damn sure.

>GFX card has disc/USB marked "DRIVERS/INSTALL GUIDE"
>Access disc/USB
>Auto-run opens splash window with "INSTALL DRIVERS" as option
>Click "INSTALL DRIVERS"
>Success
>Read INSTALL GUIDE
>Discover links to driver update page
>Download/Install as needed

Thing is I remember when I first got my Xbox360, had to play Halo 4, I spent a good four hours trying to figure out why I couldn't find the "skip" option on half of what it wanted me to do. Why do I need an Xbox Arcade Avatar? Why is this required for me to play my game? I have to subscribe to another digital service to play online? I already have an internet connection...?

Pretty much.

If someone has decided that they straight-up don't want to switch, they'll say the silliest, pettiest things to avoid switching.

lacktheknack:

PuckFuppet:

lacktheknack:

I just learned earlier in this thread that some console players don't want to change to PC because of freaking DRIVERS.

If you can't even treat DRIVERS (SERIOUSLY, DRIVERS) as neutral things, you'll have to watch your wording and context with "a little experimentation", that's for damn sure.

>GFX card has disc/USB marked "DRIVERS/INSTALL GUIDE"
>Access disc/USB
>Auto-run opens splash window with "INSTALL DRIVERS" as option
>Click "INSTALL DRIVERS"
>Success
>Read INSTALL GUIDE
>Discover links to driver update page
>Download/Install as needed

Thing is I remember when I first got my Xbox360, had to play Halo 4, I spent a good four hours trying to figure out why I couldn't find the "skip" option on half of what it wanted me to do. Why do I need an Xbox Arcade Avatar? Why is this required for me to play my game? I have to subscribe to another digital service to play online? I already have an internet connection...?

Pretty much.

If someone has decided that they straight-up don't want to switch, they'll say the silliest, pettiest things to avoid switching.

What I don't understand is why it is such a big deal to enjoy games regardless of the device at hand. I still remember having both an N64 and a PSX, admittedly console generations lasted a little longer then so there was more time to adapt, while equally enjoying the games I had for both.

@80sboy: My current rig celebrated its 1st birthday a few days ago, so far no problems whatsoever!

Muspelheim:
I think takfar on page four deserves a bleedin' medal. Now that is what I want to see! Straight to the point and friendly help!

Thanks! I based that on my own PC-building experience, but you could find some even more in-depth info on sites like maximum PC and tom's hardware, as mentioned by other posters. Here's a couple links:

Maximum PC, $1100 to $3500 builds
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/build_pc_recommended_builds_may_2013

Tom's Hardware, $600 to $1600 builds
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-tahiti-le-crossfire-overclocking,3454.html

Muspelheim:

Thing is, even if Microsoft certainly has been eager to help, it wasn't the rapidly diminishing perks of console gaming that made me stick to PC. It was all the weird little titles that the console publishers wouldn't have given the time of day to. Like Operation Flashpoint, and its true heir, the ArmA-series. Or the ridiculously complex titles Paradox keep making. Playing PC, to me, means playing a fascinating, rough gem some lone person, somewhere, have been lovingly coding and patching for years. Often available for free, or for a very reasonable price. Not to mention the mods, which even making wading through the refuse to find the ones you like all worth it.

Yes, I couldn't live without Total War games and the games by Paradox, especially the Europa Universalis/Victoria/Crusader Knights series (OK, i could probably *live*, but you get my point). And I spent a couple hundred hours last year on ArmA (especially DayZ) and Guild Wars 2, both of which can't be played on consoles. There's just a lof of games that can only work on PC, and don't get me started on how superior Mouse+keyboard is to double-analog when controlling FPS games.

Muspelheim:

It's certainly more problematic and fiddly than console gaming, but to me, it's well worth the effort.

Now, a good, or even great, PC might be discouragingly expensive, but if you're willing to settle for the next best, I'd say you can come off fairly cheaply. And remember that even the cheapest PC you could find will still have alot of utility outside gaming.

Yes, it can be more problematic (but not by much if you buy good parts) getting everything running with all games, and it's more expensive when you start, but you get so much more customizable content, fast game updates, free and discounted game content, etc, that it is certainly worth it.

Full disclosure: I'm a PC/Nintendo guy, myself. PC gets most of my gaming time, but I really enjoy the nintendo first-party games, and their consoles always have some great local-multiplayer games that I can just have simple fun with when I manage to get a bunch of friends together.

lacktheknack:

Hyakunin Isshu:

lacktheknack:

How does one platform change ruin his Assassin's Creed example?

Like... at all?

It's unfortunate that Mass Effect only has 3 on a Nintendo console, but's it's equally as unfortunate that Assassin's Creed DOES have the previous games on the previous console but they can't be played on the new one.

And of those two situations, guess which is easier to fix?

Also, about the new ideas that consoles would allow... so far, I hate all of them. That's a bad sign, don't you think?

1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan ;) )

2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'

3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.

4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!

1. You kind of utterly failed to get that point across in the first point. In fact, you berated him for being "wrong on every point". If you say he's wrong on every point, and ALSO that he's made it into a two-sided issue... then doesn't that mean that you're ALSO making it a two-sided issue, just from the other side?

2. It's understandable if a console iteration changes absolutely EVERYTHING, so it can't be backward-compatible. (Where do you jam the Mario 64 cartridge in a Gamecube?) However, when the Gamecube gave way to the Wii, even though the controller, hardware, software and much else changed, it still took the same input (tiny disc) and lo and behold, it was backwards compatible. However, the Xbox 360 -> Xbox 1 and PS3 -> PS4 changes only hardware and software. There's no bloody reason they can't have a simple architecture emulator on it to run the old media (I have several emulators OPEN right now, they're common and not excessively hard to make). NONE.

As for X-COM, lrn2DosBox. Seriously. If you buy X-COM from gog.com, all they give you is an exact copy of the original physical copy wrapped up with a DosBox emulator.

Here, it's right here: http://www.dosbox.com/

It requires a bit of experimentation, but that's the one downside to it being free (and if you're of a certain disposition, getting the game working is fun and rewarding in and of itself).

3. It's not a new thing, but it still sucks, especially because there's no bloody reason for it. I understand if I play FFVII, and find out that I have to play the first one on an NES (you don't anymore, by the way, you can get it on your phone). However, imagine if you bought a sequel on a PC that ran Windows 7, and found out that the first game would ONLY run on Windows XP, despite not actually relying on XP-specific features. This would be annoying enough. What makes it worse is that 64 bit Windows 7 -> 32 bit Windows XP emulators exist (I have one), but they won't do an Xbox One -> Xbox 360 emulator.

This leaves the question hanging: WHY NOT?

4. Just to show you how utterly lost you are, Half Life 2 WAS last-gen.

Furthermore, what's so special about games like Portal? Portal used the idea of "set two locations, touch one, teleport to the other". This was based off a pretty crappy student project. Furthermore, there's a flash game based on Portal, which is the technological equivalent of an early PS1. They didn't need the Xbox hardware they used, and they most certainly didn't need the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware they used to add the various gels and extra character they added to Portal 2.

Also, there's nothing inherently excellent about your other examples that are exclusive to this gen. Red Faction's first game, for instance, was released in 2001 on early PS2 hardware. The idea of "alter the landscape" was already in effect. Dead Rising just uses lots of NPCs and creative weaponizing that isn't inherent to the hardware. Every cool weapon combo or use was programmed in individually, which is how it's been done since video game characters began picking up items. And while newer hardware was needed to allow for higher-res models in large groups, it's hardly a new idea.

XCOM: Enemy Unknown is NOT a new idea. You damn well know this, seeing how you were saying that you can't play the first X-COM mere paragraphs ago.

Etc, etc.

You wanna know what kind of cool new ideas the new consoles from Sony and Microsoft CAN achieve? They can do better graphics and AI. That's... more or less all. And the AI isn't even all that useful outside of 4X, RTS and simulation games, which the consoles aren't going to have, because they haven't changed the controller that was stopping those genres in the first place.

Look, I'm all for new consoles that do cool things, but currently, what Xbox One is offering me is a platter of social networking integrated features, a cable box, and a permanent spy camera with none of the good stuff that you seem to think it will manage. There's currently NO reason to buy one any more than I would buy a new cable box with the words "CONTAINS UNCONTROLLABLE CAMERA FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE" plastered on it. Sony doesn't seem to have any cool new things up the chute either.

At least the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii and is actually trying a REAL attempt at innovation, but at this point, Yahtzee's pretty damn justified in thinking that PC gaming is an avenue he should try out again.

(sigh) Oy vey!

Look, You haven't changed my mind, even a bit.

What I said wasn't clear enough, but it still stands. Like for one (just one) example, Half-life 2 can in some way run on the "Last-Gen", but *only* on the first xbox. It can NOT run on the Gamecube, and it can NOT run on the PS2. And the graphics was A *lot* less better, and it even had frame-rate problems.

Now I can go over everything else, but I don't want to. Maybe I'll come back after a few days, but I think it's pointless now. Question is, are you still willing to talk then? Because if not,then this will end now, and I have to say good bye.

From what I've seen there is no end of e-peen stroking braggadocio on either side of the fence. And games on both platforms are almost completely under the heel of juggernaut companies that could give two shits about quality control, value for money, or their customers actual feelings. Seems a no score draw at the moment. The only reason I currently own a powerful PC is because I do many things outside of gaming with it. If the only thing I was able use a console or a PC for was gaming, I wouldn't waste money on either.

80sboy:
I have, if not for the sake of upgrading itself, I've had to do it when one part goes bad and I have to buy a replacement. I've been building PCs since 2006 and since then I've just about had to replace EVERYTHING to keep the rig upgaded and - most of all - working!

-replaced a case 1x
-replaced a motherboad 1x
-replaced Ram 3x
-replaced processor 1x
-replaced the power sourse 2x
-replaced the hard drive 1x
-replaced graphics card 2x

Only thing - up till now - I haven't replaced that remains from my old 2006 model is the disc player, but that's gone bad too now finally... guess it's time to replace that too. :/

My 2003 build (Athlon 2000, a present to myself from my first proper job) lasted me to 2011 with:

-one new CPU (Athlon 3200, grabbed off eBay near the end of Socket A's lifetime)
-new MOBO and CPU (Athlon 3400-64 - the original incredible A7N8X mobo finally carked it in 2008)
-three new RAM sets in the first six months, then one new set that lasted to the finish (seriously, don't buy no-name RAM; that 185 I spent on 1Gb of Corsair DDR1 was an awesome investment)
-four new graphics cards (Ti 4200 / 6600 / Radeon X1950 / 3650)
-one new PSU (for the 6600)
-two new DVD drives (it had a CD-RW to start with)
-about six new HDDs (I upsized fairly regularly, and ran with a small OS / big data paradigm long before SSDs made it cool)
-one new cooler (the stock one on the 2000 couldn't handle the 3200)
-two new HDD cables and one new floppy cable

By the end, all that was left from the original was the case and the floppy drive. I still can't bring myself to throw it away (it currently functions as an XBox shelf). It'd probably still work fine with not much more than a dustout and a new HDD...

Also: to the people in love with PC's backwards compatability, please tell me how to get Civilisation 2 working on 64-bit Windows 7 - it's wrecked support for most 16-bit apps.

Also also: to the dirty console peasants, sorry, but yes; PCs require work and effort to purchase and maintain effectively. Software installation is a million times easier than it used to be (although most of my Steam stuff still seems to want to install on the wrong drive) but if you're going to buy a system you need to research more than which exclusives, what colour and how big the hard drive. And that's not an unreasonable demand - if you're going to fork out 500 for something then I'd expect you to actually look into what it is you're buying, and make the effort to try and understand some of its terminology. If that's too much like hard work then tough.

Kinitawowi:

By the end, all that was left from the original was the case and the floppy drive. I still can't bring myself to throw it away (it currently functions as an XBox shelf). It'd probably still work fine with not much more than a dustout and a new HDD...

Heh. I live less than 4 kilometers from the beach. The case is one of the first things to go. If I had a case from 2003 still around, it'd probably amount to a little mound of rusty dust by now.

Hyakunin Isshu:

lacktheknack:

Hyakunin Isshu:

1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan ;) )

2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'

3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.

4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!

1. You kind of utterly failed to get that point across in the first point. In fact, you berated him for being "wrong on every point". If you say he's wrong on every point, and ALSO that he's made it into a two-sided issue... then doesn't that mean that you're ALSO making it a two-sided issue, just from the other side?

2. It's understandable if a console iteration changes absolutely EVERYTHING, so it can't be backward-compatible. (Where do you jam the Mario 64 cartridge in a Gamecube?) However, when the Gamecube gave way to the Wii, even though the controller, hardware, software and much else changed, it still took the same input (tiny disc) and lo and behold, it was backwards compatible. However, the Xbox 360 -> Xbox 1 and PS3 -> PS4 changes only hardware and software. There's no bloody reason they can't have a simple architecture emulator on it to run the old media (I have several emulators OPEN right now, they're common and not excessively hard to make). NONE.

As for X-COM, lrn2DosBox. Seriously. If you buy X-COM from gog.com, all they give you is an exact copy of the original physical copy wrapped up with a DosBox emulator.

Here, it's right here: http://www.dosbox.com/

It requires a bit of experimentation, but that's the one downside to it being free (and if you're of a certain disposition, getting the game working is fun and rewarding in and of itself).

3. It's not a new thing, but it still sucks, especially because there's no bloody reason for it. I understand if I play FFVII, and find out that I have to play the first one on an NES (you don't anymore, by the way, you can get it on your phone). However, imagine if you bought a sequel on a PC that ran Windows 7, and found out that the first game would ONLY run on Windows XP, despite not actually relying on XP-specific features. This would be annoying enough. What makes it worse is that 64 bit Windows 7 -> 32 bit Windows XP emulators exist (I have one), but they won't do an Xbox One -> Xbox 360 emulator.

This leaves the question hanging: WHY NOT?

4. Just to show you how utterly lost you are, Half Life 2 WAS last-gen.

Furthermore, what's so special about games like Portal? Portal used the idea of "set two locations, touch one, teleport to the other". This was based off a pretty crappy student project. Furthermore, there's a flash game based on Portal, which is the technological equivalent of an early PS1. They didn't need the Xbox hardware they used, and they most certainly didn't need the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware they used to add the various gels and extra character they added to Portal 2.

Also, there's nothing inherently excellent about your other examples that are exclusive to this gen. Red Faction's first game, for instance, was released in 2001 on early PS2 hardware. The idea of "alter the landscape" was already in effect. Dead Rising just uses lots of NPCs and creative weaponizing that isn't inherent to the hardware. Every cool weapon combo or use was programmed in individually, which is how it's been done since video game characters began picking up items. And while newer hardware was needed to allow for higher-res models in large groups, it's hardly a new idea.

XCOM: Enemy Unknown is NOT a new idea. You damn well know this, seeing how you were saying that you can't play the first X-COM mere paragraphs ago.

Etc, etc.

You wanna know what kind of cool new ideas the new consoles from Sony and Microsoft CAN achieve? They can do better graphics and AI. That's... more or less all. And the AI isn't even all that useful outside of 4X, RTS and simulation games, which the consoles aren't going to have, because they haven't changed the controller that was stopping those genres in the first place.

Look, I'm all for new consoles that do cool things, but currently, what Xbox One is offering me is a platter of social networking integrated features, a cable box, and a permanent spy camera with none of the good stuff that you seem to think it will manage. There's currently NO reason to buy one any more than I would buy a new cable box with the words "CONTAINS UNCONTROLLABLE CAMERA FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE" plastered on it. Sony doesn't seem to have any cool new things up the chute either.

At least the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii and is actually trying a REAL attempt at innovation, but at this point, Yahtzee's pretty damn justified in thinking that PC gaming is an avenue he should try out again.

(sigh) Oy vey!

Look, You haven't changed my mind, even a bit.

What I said wasn't clear enough, but it still stands. Like for one (just one) example, Half-life 2 can in some way run on the "Last-Gen", but *only* on the first xbox. It can NOT run on the Gamecube, and it can NOT run on the PS2. And the graphics was A *lot* less better, and it even had frame-rate problems.

Now I can go over everything else, but I don't want to. Maybe I'll come back after a few days, but I think it's pointless now. Question is, are you still willing to talk then? Because if not,then this will end now, and I have to say good bye.

No, I'm willing to talk later.

But before you come back, make sure you're not mixing up "cool new ideas" with "prettier graphics".

takfar:
Heh. I live less than 4 kilometers from the beach. The case is one of the first things to go. If I had a case from 2003 still around, it'd probably amount to a little mound of rusty dust by now.

Yeah, mine just moved around cities (Manchester -> Stoke -> London). I started out less than 400 yards from the beach, but that was well before I built a PC.

But yeah. I've still got the original invoice for that build kicking around somewhere. That case was rubbish from day one - the plastic front drive bay covers never quite lined up with the actual drive bays and the single piece three-side lid was a pain to realign, and so, so retro, but it had a charm and it was my first build and I was still proud of it. (Here's a picture. I loved full towers at the time...)

ResonanceSD:

Stryc9:

ResonanceSD:
The Creator Speaks! AND I LISTEN!!

^Why would they launch a console they wanted to fail? They could just..you know, NOT release the console.

How about they're going to try and pass this bullshit and if it sells that's great and if it doesn't they have a ready made excuse to bow out of the market?

Why would anyone blow hundreds of millions of dollars? Companies are adverse to risk taking by definition, this is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I've seen, ever. The Xb1 is a logical progression in terms of being an entertainment hub that began in the X360 era, nothing more.

There's no conspiracy theory here, I'll make this as plain as I possibly I can. I don't think Microsoft really gives a shit if the Xbone does well or not. Either it does and they make yet another mountain of money, or it doesn't and they say, "Well, that didn't go very well and we're done." They've already proven they're willing to do exactly that, when's the last time Microsoft announced a new Zune?

Stryc9:

ResonanceSD:

Stryc9:

How about they're going to try and pass this bullshit and if it sells that's great and if it doesn't they have a ready made excuse to bow out of the market?

Why would anyone blow hundreds of millions of dollars? Companies are adverse to risk taking by definition, this is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I've seen, ever. The Xb1 is a logical progression in terms of being an entertainment hub that began in the X360 era, nothing more.

There's no conspiracy theory here, I'll make this as plain as I possibly I can. I don't think Microsoft really gives a shit if the Xbone does well or not. Either it does and they make yet another mountain of money, or it doesn't and they say, "Well, that didn't go very well and we're done." They've already proven they're willing to do exactly that, when's the last time Microsoft announced a new Zune?

Although that makes sense from the perspective of Microsoft as a single entity, it doesn't really work as well in terms of Microsoft as a collection of small entities.

I'm totally with you in that the BOD and majority shareholders would have absolutely no problem cutting off a limb for the sake of the whole, and they may not even be that interested in trying to keep the problem from reaching that point, but that limb is fighting for its life right now. If the console subdivision of Microsoft gets 'restructured' a lot of employment changes are coming. Management jobs are usually the first to go, and the managers know that, so they are likely doing everything they can to make sure their division remains solvent, if for no other reason to avoid having to cash in on a severance package that they should have negotiated harder on.

I had a friend who worked for Microsoft in the Xbox Live dev department. He left because the people there honestly believed that "content push" (see adds) was what the consumer wanted.

Dammit Yahtzee, stop stealing the thoughts from my head. *wraps more tinfoil*

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