The Big Picture: Boy's Own Adventure

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT
 

Trishbot:

And THIS...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlH71V1LpNw

Meanwhile, non-comedy positive trans* characters? i think Wandering Son is about it?

Bring it to the UK, I'd watch that show! It sounds/looks brilliant!

Although the UK anti-gay [LGBT more generally]is a lot less vicious then in the US. From what I've seen anyway. We only get CNN here, least that the only news channel I know of that is in the UK. Not to say that we don't have homophobic people here 'cos we have a few.

That's my 2p anyway.

WaitWHAT:

jaymiechan:
Bob kinda glossed over the fact that LGBT issues, especially these days, tends to leave the B and T behind, as well as the concerns for LGBT youth, focusing purely on assimilation theory and gay marriage.

I hate to be....*that guy* advancing the flamewar, but would Bi groups need special attention? If they have a partner of the opposite gender, that's already socially accepted. It would only be if they tried to have a same-sex partner that they'd face any kind of discrimination, and that's what the 'L' and 'G' sections of the 'LGBT' movement are focusing on.

Within the QUILTBAG community, many bisexuals feel they aren't considered a "true" orientation by their gay and lesbian brethren, e.g. the accusations that bi-men are actually gay men unwilling to admit they're actually gay, or that bi-women only exhibit bi-curious behaviour to appeal to men. Like most things involving human society, it's probably complicated: there probably are gay men and straight women who pretend to be bi, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't actual bisexuals.

I assume Bob left this out because to explain the issue with any justice would probably require a Big Picture episode to itself. His focus here was on the common enemy of QUILTBAG rights, the so-called "social conservatives", not the movement's internal issues. If you have 5 minutes to explain World War II, you'll probably focus on Axis vs. Allies. You probably wouldn't bring up, for examples, all the strife between Winston Churchill and Charles De Gaulle.

Isn't Catwoman connected to Batman? Most of her character development seems to be to do with their relationship. I haven't actually heard of most of the other villains.

DVS BSTrD:
And yet when Beast Boy or Ben Ten turns into different SPECIES nobody could gives a fuck.

Have you not run into Anti-Furry stuff on the internet yet?

To be fair, The Hub is also a source for reruns of Animaniacs and Batman TAS. How can I say no to that?

gphjr14:
I guess past generations didn't have a problem when Bugs Bunny was dressing up like a woman and kissing Elmer Fudd.

now that I think about it, when was bugs not naked or dressed like a woman?

"hey, guess what? You're getting superpowers! But there's a catch. You'll be wearing a dress when you use them."

Honestly that sounds hilarious. Also reminds of something I was going to do more as a joke than anything with my role-playing group.
I was going to have them find this absolutely awesome, amazing one of a kind armor. something like a +5 spell resistance, heavy fortification, no spell failure, no speed reduction, counts as light armor for movement, etc. The catch was it was going to be pink. and I mean bright pink. Just to see who would take it and who wouldn't.

PHHFT
*snort*
w...well you...see
*snicker*
In these sorts of these situations you have to remain calm and carefully explain


That they are wrong....and then....tell them....

that they are being ridiculous/stupid/bigoted/ignorant/paranoid/buffoons.

*weeze*
that was a good laugh :D

I am utterly disappointed by the lack of Australian accents.

What, are we watching the dub or something?

Jamane:
a transvetite superhero and everyone losses their minds, quick show them priscilla queen of the desert and watch the fireworks.

Never mind that.

Eddie Izzard, doing his routine on Asus Besus Cesus Desus Esus Effsus and Gesus.

Spontaneous combustion, it's real and that's how you trigger it.

Trishbot:

Ah, but those were simple one-time throwaway gags meant for a laugh, as opposed to an entire show built around them!

Except the last two, those two were made by the Japanese and we ALL know how wacky and crazy THOSE guys are!

[/satire/sarcasm/whatever]

Ronack:
It's really, really sad how transgendered/crossdressing main characters are always in a more comedic show ... Well, there IS The Education of Max Bickford, a drama show which played it all more straight forward. But here, she was on the main cast but not the main character. I guess there's also TransAmerica.

I think that's because people find cross dressing to be humorous. And this isn't just because a bunch of nominally 'straight' people like laughing at the odd person swapping gendered clothing articles, even shows which are geared toward and aimed at transvestites often play up the humor, Rupaul's Drag Race being a good example of this. That's not to say that you can't have a transvestite character who isn't just doing it for the lols, but humor linked to men dressing as women is a core part of what many transvestite shows actually aim for.

That said, cross dressing done as an act or for humor is a different thing that someone who's transgendered wearing gendered clothing of the opposite sex. This cartoon in particular is not focussing on that though, it's focussed on the played-for-humor aspects of the former example. I think it's a fallacy to try and combine cross-dressing and transgendered roles into being of the same category, as one is often done specifically for comedic effect and the other is not. I would like to see more transgendered characters though, that's for sure.

OT - As for Bob's video, the only issue I take is his assertion that girl+guy = good, where as independent girl = bad. You have examples of females attached to male characters who are bad (Harley Quinn much?) and examples of independent heroines being good. Wonder Woman, as he pointed out already, but also the later version of Huntress and a bunch of the cast of characters from Birds of Prey (even if many of them started life as evil or connected to male characters, things have changed.)

We can also argue over what being 'connected' to a male character even means. Who's really independent, male or female, in either DC or Marvel? Nearly everyone's been connected to a team at one point or another, male and female alike. And just as there are often independent female villains, so goes the male villains. Note how many male villains were very often shown with no romantic interest and no connection to any female characters good or evil (except the occasional team up). This is because those villains are portrayed not as people, but as plot devices, objectified and without humanity. It isn't that independent female = bad, but rather that good characters are people who have socializations and are dependent on their inter-personal relationships, where as evil characters are either portrayed as psychopaths with no ability to form real relationships, or because they are so objectified that the idea of relationships never even comes up. Both of these phenomenon happen regardless of gender.

Thunderous Cacophony:
Can the guy take off the ring? It seems like once he put it on he became stuck dressed like a girl, which seems unpleasant.

Also, I like the little "comics are sexist" bit Bob slipped in. He's gonna have a flame war in this comment section come hell or high water.

I don't think he can take off the ring (or at least no one else can use it anyways) but he can deactivate the powers/suit with the right verbal phrase (something his more knowledgeable about Shezow sister didn't want to let him know about yet as torturing him was funny to her.) but it was a while before he discovered the phrase which is why he had to dress in layers in that one scene.

I saw an add for this show on the hub a few weeks ago and i knew then and there that Fox was going to do an outrage piece on this. Sometimes i really hate being right.

Seriously though Fox? This is what you want to rant about? The IRS harasses Tea Party leaders, Obama may have used the terrorist attack on the Benghazi embassy to cover up illegal gun sales to potential terrorists, the Turks are going to overthrow their government over a god damned park and this is what you all want to raise some controversy over. Really?

To be honest i probably come down on the more bigoted side of this debate, (Its a religious thing) and even i think that this is really, really stupid. Come on people, this is just a good old fashion dudes in drag is funny joke. You may as well get angry at Monty Python while you're at it.

The only popular TV show I can think of that has actually done this right is Star Trek TNG (and sometimes Futurama referencing Star Trek when they aren't making fun of how ridiculous Zapp looks). In the first episode there's a dude just walking around in a minidress uniform and nobody bats a goddamn eyelash. That's how you break down barriers.

Telling people, especially kids, that it's weird for guys to wear "girl clothes" just teaches them to think that way. Even if it's overall intended to make them question why that is the case, it still reinforces the wrongheaded notion that gender as it's applied to bodies is inflexible and that any deviation from social norms makes you wrong.

There are enough irrational bigots in real life. Fictional cartoon universes don't need them too.

It's always nice to see uninformed hypocritical children rant against other groups uninformed hypocritical children on the other side of the aisle. The self-righteous stupidity in the comments thus far is astounding.

When I first heard about this, quite honestly I was annoyed. There is nothing wrong with the idea of boys being boys and girls being girls. It is not bigotry to subscribe to "traditional" gender roles, nor is it idiocy to feel that the "politically correct" of the world are trying very hard to dictate what is and isn't acceptable. Do you, as a person, like everything and everyone? Do you have a completely open mind when it comes to everything you encounter? No? Then what gives you, or anyone like you the right to tell someone else what is and isn't acceptable?

SOCIETY reinforces gender stereotypes. SOCIETY determines what is and isn't allowed. Not the left, not the right, SOCIETY as a whole. Some people think that presenting these types of concepts to children is confusing. Some people have beliefs that find this type of pandering(and make no mistake, this is pandering), offensive. And regardless of the validity of those beliefs, they have just as much right to them as you do to yours.

Social change should come because of a change in how SOCIETY thinks, feels, behaves. It should not be attained via force or coercion. When a religious radical speaks out, he is quickly labeled as a bigot or fool(well if that person is from the west, other cultures seem to get a free pass no matter what nonsense they spout), yet when someone steps up in the name of "insert this weeks hippy agenda item" they are immediately praised by both the media and the vocal minority as standing up for what they believe.

I personally do not agree with either point of view due to the fact that I do not believe it is my place to DICTATE what others think. But maybe that is just me.

WaitWHAT:

jaymiechan:
Bob kinda glossed over the fact that LGBT issues, especially these days, tends to leave the B and T behind, as well as the concerns for LGBT youth, focusing purely on assimilation theory and gay marriage.

I hate to be....*that guy* advancing the flamewar, but would Bi groups need special attention? If they have a partner of the opposite gender, that's already socially accepted. It would only be if they tried to have a same-sex partner that they'd face any kind of discrimination, and that's what the 'L' and 'G' sections of the 'LGBT' movement are focusing on.

Having said that, Trans groups are pretty darn under-represented and could use a little more positive exposure [1].

Speaking as a bisexual male yes they need some special attention, even though what you said is true the fact that we're often brushed aside is worrying, and indeed a lot of gay communities really aren't very open to bisexuals and will actively persecute and push us away.
Ed: Oh and for the record I have an opposite gender partner, still face discrimination, and peoples ignorance is still harmful and the scars gained from it dont heal.

It's sad because we don't need to blend in and assimilate, nor do we need to be defined by our sexuality, the solution is education, not legislation.

[1] No, not like that you sick bastards....

So...it's like "Is This A Zombie?" except it's for kids? Sounds good to me. I chuckled a few times watching those clips. I would totally watch this show on Hub, if I actually got the channel. I'd probably watch a lot of stuff on there, because I love cartoons. Sadly, one must pay extra for Hub, so I am left with Cartoon Network, Nick, and Disney Channel when they actually decide to show Gravity Falls. Watching MLP on the internet isn't the same as watching it on TV...(pops in DVD). Problem solved.

I need to watch this show, somehow!

I wish something like this could be made as game!
Understanding 'gaming' as in "check out DIFFERENT possibilities" that are not one's life".

Oh I am already playing Tomb Raider...

SacremPyrobolum:
I am utterly disappointed by the lack of Australian accents.

What, are we watching the dub or something?

Yeah probably, everybody knows that exposing americas youth to other accents would be harmful to them./sarcasm

Since this change is FORCED on the protagonist and the thin premise seems to mostly involve making jokes at his expense, how is this a positive portrayal? There doesn't seem to be ANY gender identity stuff here, it's just 'ha ha, you look like a girl now'. If he'd dressed up like that on purpose, or the ring brought out his true inner self or some bs it would be different. This being a point of contention is stupid for both sides of the issue. Arguing about Bert and Ernie is dumb but even that makes more sense.

Trishbot:
Meanwhile, in the 40s...
image

And 50s...
image

And 60s...
image

And 70s...
image

And 80s...
image

And the 90s...
image

And over at Japan...
image

And THIS...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlH71V1LpNw

Don't forget this...

I'm always on board for stockpiling the "would this obvious thing blow their minds?" clips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2XAlhBGR4w

shadowmagus:
I'm totally with you on the "Fox news is over-exaggerating about a cartoon" bit. Its a cartoon.

That said, you lost me at "Connected to men= good; independent=evil". Your white knight is showing.

Again.

Stop it.

You don't have to be a "white knight" to think that there are inherent problems with depictions of gender in our media, and it is not only wrong-headed but deeply insulting that you're using that as an excuse to dismiss it without thought.

WaitWhat:

But surely bi groups wouldn't need that much special atte-

jaymiechan:

Sure, it seems like that, but factor in that there is a rather large (and surprising) amount of biphobia/anti-bi-bias in both the gay and straight communities. LG people see bi folks as 'undecided gay people', both sides see bi people as automatically poly or unloyal or a slut who will sleep with anyone...

EDIT: oh, and SheZow seems to both ridicule the tropes of Golden Age female comics....while also utilizing aspects of Drag Queen culture (one bit i saw made much use of the term Glamazon, which IIRC was a term coined by RuPaul, to the point of it being a song/album by that person).

Falseprophet:

Within the QUILTBAG community, many bisexuals feel they aren't considered a "true" orientation by their gay and lesbian brethren, e.g. the accusations that bi-men are actually gay men unwilling to admit they're actually gay, or that bi-women only exhibit bi-curious behaviour to appeal to men. Like most things involving human society, it's probably complicated: there probably are gay men and straight women who pretend to be bi, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't actual bisexuals.

I assume Bob left this out because to explain the issue with any justice would probably require a Big Picture episode to itself. His focus here was on the common enemy of QUILTBAG rights, the so-called "social conservatives", not the movement's internal issues. If you have 5 minutes to explain World War II, you'll probably focus on Axis vs. Allies. You probably wouldn't bring up, for examples, all the strife between Winston Churchill and Charles De Gaulle.

SkarKrow:

Speaking as a bisexual male yes they need some special attention, even though what you said is true the fact that we're often brushed aside is worrying, and indeed a lot of gay communities really aren't very open to bisexuals and will actively persecute and push us away.
Ed: Oh and for the record I have an opposite gender partner, still face discrimination, and peoples ignorance is still harmful and the scars gained from it dont heal.

It's sad because we don't need to blend in and assimilate, nor do we need to be defined by our sexuality, the solution is education, not legislation.

Huh, that's pretty odd. I'd've thought that the lesbian and gay communities would be the most open to this, seeing as many of them would have faced rejection and discrimination for their own sexuality. And it's particularly ironic considering that very few of them are actually likely to be 100% only attracted to their same gender all of the time[1]. Guess it shows that bigotry is an equal opportunity character flaw.

This is off-topic, but I just wanna mention that it's nice to see some love for "Amazing World of Gumball." It's a funny show with a lot of fun, cool, and clever design and animation work, but for some reason I never see it getting the same attention that Adventure Time, Regular Show, and MLP do.

Also the subject of me being an insufferable cartoon nerd:

Trishbot:

And 60s...
image

I'm gonna be "that guy" and point out that this still is from a 1940s Bob Clampett cartoon

WaitWHAT:
Kupo!

SkarKrow:

Speaking as a bisexual male yes they need some special attention, even though what you said is true the fact that we're often brushed aside is worrying, and indeed a lot of gay communities really aren't very open to bisexuals and will actively persecute and push us away.
Ed: Oh and for the record I have an opposite gender partner, still face discrimination, and peoples ignorance is still harmful and the scars gained from it dont heal.

It's sad because we don't need to blend in and assimilate, nor do we need to be defined by our sexuality, the solution is education, not legislation.

Huh, that's pretty odd. I'd've thought that the lesbian and gay communities would be the most open to this, seeing as many of them would have faced rejection and discrimination for their own sexuality. And it's particularly ironic considering that very few of them are actually likely to be 100% only attracted to their same gender all of the time[1]. Guess it shows that bigotry is an equal opportunity character flaw.

Yeah you would think that, and you'd think they'd be able to use their own experience to empathise and show compassion rather than just acting like any other discriminating person.

It's rather sad because a lot of it could be solved if people just stopped giving so much of a crap about what others do and were just pleasant to each other. Attempting to understand people and treating them as you would like to be treated is a pretty easy thing to do.

WaitWHAT:

WaitWhat:

But surely bi groups wouldn't need that much special atte-

jaymiechan:

Sure, it seems like that, but factor in that there is a rather large (and surprising) amount of biphobia/anti-bi-bias in both the gay and straight communities. LG people see bi folks as 'undecided gay people', both sides see bi people as automatically poly or unloyal or a slut who will sleep with anyone...

EDIT: oh, and SheZow seems to both ridicule the tropes of Golden Age female comics....while also utilizing aspects of Drag Queen culture (one bit i saw made much use of the term Glamazon, which IIRC was a term coined by RuPaul, to the point of it being a song/album by that person).

Falseprophet:

Within the QUILTBAG community, many bisexuals feel they aren't considered a "true" orientation by their gay and lesbian brethren, e.g. the accusations that bi-men are actually gay men unwilling to admit they're actually gay, or that bi-women only exhibit bi-curious behaviour to appeal to men. Like most things involving human society, it's probably complicated: there probably are gay men and straight women who pretend to be bi, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't actual bisexuals.

I assume Bob left this out because to explain the issue with any justice would probably require a Big Picture episode to itself. His focus here was on the common enemy of QUILTBAG rights, the so-called "social conservatives", not the movement's internal issues. If you have 5 minutes to explain World War II, you'll probably focus on Axis vs. Allies. You probably wouldn't bring up, for examples, all the strife between Winston Churchill and Charles De Gaulle.

SkarKrow:

Speaking as a bisexual male yes they need some special attention, even though what you said is true the fact that we're often brushed aside is worrying, and indeed a lot of gay communities really aren't very open to bisexuals and will actively persecute and push us away.
Ed: Oh and for the record I have an opposite gender partner, still face discrimination, and peoples ignorance is still harmful and the scars gained from it dont heal.

It's sad because we don't need to blend in and assimilate, nor do we need to be defined by our sexuality, the solution is education, not legislation.

Huh, that's pretty odd. I'd've thought that the lesbian and gay communities would be the most open to this, seeing as many of them would have faced rejection and discrimination for their own sexuality. And it's particularly ironic considering that very few of them are actually likely to be 100% only attracted to their same gender all of the time[1]. Guess it shows that bigotry is an equal opportunity character flaw.

Speaking as a bisexual male here (I actually choose to identify as pancurious, but bi gets the point across), we don't really get considered as "real" by either hetero- or homosexual communities. Hell, my ex-wife constantly forgot I was also attracted to men. That said, I think acceptance of gay and lesbian persons certainly helps move everyone else in the sexual/gender spectrum closer to equality.

This show is a kids' cartoon. It's based on a one-shot gag that they ran with. It's really not noteworthy, except for the fact that that boy is dressed as a girl!

Bob thanks for pointing this out. I do find it funny that Sponge Bob and Patrick have been a couple for years and no one said anything because they didn't cross dress even though Spongebob is a flaming homosexual.

shadowmagus:
I'm totally with you on the "Fox news is over-exaggerating about a cartoon" bit. Its a cartoon.

That said, you lost me at "Connected to men= good; independent=evil". Your white knight is showing.

Again.

Stop it.

But that's not white knighting, sir.
That's just the use of *GASP* logic and very simple analysis of portrayal.
Comics are sexist.

As for Shezow...This whole outrage for this cartoon is really what i expected from the people that actively outraged...so yeah, no news there.

I watched fox news this weekend and All I saw was the IRS debacle, and other actually big ticket news items... this wasn't there at all.

gphjr14:
I guess past generations didn't have a problem when Bugs Bunny was dressing up like a woman and kissing Elmer Fudd.

Of course not, that was in a cartoon, which although the creators may not be making with inherently innocent ideas they will be received as such and are expected to be corrected by their parents. That being said, its seems nowadays everyone's a helicopter parent with so little confidence in their skills as such to let their watch Spongebob without wondering if the little hearts that form when he hugs his best friend represent mutual erections.
Case in point: Parents nowadays are idiots who insist on spoiling their children while at the same time sheltering them from any and all life lessons, immunity-building and un-wholesome experiences that could actually teach them something.

Ukomba:
Since this change is FORCED on the protagonist and the thin premise seems to mostly involve making jokes at his expense, how is this a positive portrayal? There doesn't seem to be ANY gender identity stuff here, it's just 'ha ha, you look like a girl now'. If he'd dressed up like that on purpose, or the ring brought out his true inner self or some bs it would be different. This being a point of contention is stupid for both sides of the issue. Arguing about Bert and Ernie is dumb but even that makes more sense.

I haven't seen the show but from having read the synopsis, I can imagine then going down a rout where eventually he'll have more "respect" for the identity and females in general. So I mean it's not necessarily a transgender show, but it could support positive views for both genders separately, and maybe even blur the line between what's acceptable for either gender.

That is upsetting that the vox populi doesn't think cross dressing is funny anymore. The real thing that I thought of when Bob said this is what the media decided to talk about is what the main stream, Soros-owned media is hiding. Another question this raises is why the generally liberal media would think this to be a problem. Either way, cross dressing is still funny when done right.

Another big thing is, why does anyone really care? It's not like anybody's sexual preference is going to make their motives and ambitions any different. This entire social issue falls under the "wooptie-fuckin'-do" category. Everyone who sensationalizes the social problem, to either end, are often the ones who precipitate larger problems by trying to get everyone to make the problem a big deal in both camps. In reality, most people don't care about what doesn't effect their lives, thus making a mountain out of a mole hill. So, the commoners apply the "wooptie do, I don't really care" constant to the crazy people who have nothing better to do that to hate someone's sexual preference and the people who think the entire world cares about every aspect of their lives'.

If you want to stand on either side of any issue, be my guest, but think of what the problem really is and don't try to make it any bigger than it needs to be. People won't care unless it effects their lives directly.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here