Zero Punctuation: Next Gen Buyer's Guide

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I'm too lazy to make a full reply, so I'll C&P what I said in another topic:

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But I think you all need to see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M

It is about Used Games, and how very, very bad it is for all console Game-Makers. In fact, it makes Ben Croshaw look like a giant baka for thinking Used Games aren't hurting developers, or thinking: 'it's not that bad of a thing'.

In fact, It changed my mind on the topic. Please see the whole thing before replying.
And it the link doesn't work, then look for "The Devil's Halibut - Used Games" on youtube, It's by TotalHalibut.
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Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Hyakunin Isshu:
I'm too lazy to make a full reply, so I'll C&P what I said in another topic:

---

But I think you all need to see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M

It is about Used Games, and how very, very bad it is for all console Game-Makers. In fact, it makes Ben Croshaw look like a giant baka for thinking Used Games aren't hurting developers, or thinking: 'it's not that bad of a thing'.

In fact, It changed my mind on the topic. Please see the whole thing before replying.
And it the link doesn't work, then look for "The Devil's Halibut - Used Games" on youtube, It's by TotalHalibut.
---

I have to admit, console makers are in between a rock and a hard place.

Used game sales are killing developers. But consumers like being able to resell their games - could even be considered a consumer right.

Join our PC team, it's nice over here :)

I think microsoft wanted to have more focus on the additional features of the console because they thought "we're making a games console, of course it's going to have games!". Only it wasn't all that clear, since the other companies brought up their machines with useless gimmicky stuff most people don't need and therefore wont shell out money for it. Except for the useless gimmicky bullshit, i haven't seen anything that couldn't be done on the old consoles (albeit maybe in slightly lower texture resolution).

If my skyrim runs smoothly but stutters a bit when i download a new high resolution texture pack, would i run to the store to buy new parts for my computer to make it run faster for 500$? I highly doubt it.
Especially if those new parts came with annoying restrictions.

I do not care about social media connectivity, but companies would have me pay for the implementation of those things. Fair enough, i'll buy a ps4 controller and measure the "share" button. I will then make a plastic cap to fit over it and probably make a billion bucks.

Nintendo are masters of innovative controls that no one really wants. The wii mote might be fun for a while, but how many Wii's are gathering dust in your closets and attics?
The thing doesn't work reliably and if a can't have a "realistic" swordfight without having the most success by having a seizure i might as well not bother.
Three years after release they brought out the "wii mote+". It works better, still not as reliable as a button but it's something. After three years.
Might as well wait three years before i decide if i want to buy a new console.

All in all, i find this guide not cynical at all. I honestly couldn't recommend any of those new consoles to anyone.

deadish:

Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Again, this is not criticism anymore. This is PC gamer propaganda. You don't withhold information and lie to the public even when giving criticism.

LordTerminal:

deadish:

Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Again, this is not criticism anymore. This is PC gamer propaganda. You don't withhold information and lie to the public even when giving criticism.

Hah. Propaganda, as if we are Democrats and Republicans.

I think you are taking gaming way to seriously if this "propaganda" gets under your skin. Not even console gamers give a rats ass about Yahtzee's humor in this thread.

I love it when you show the Gamecube with Metroid Prime as positives. I think I'm just going to replay every single classic game I own.

Ehhh, still annoyed with the whole 'Sony didn't show off the console' argument. They didn't show off a box, the did however reveal the specs in great detail, which is important to developers, you know, the guys who make the feckin' games. Microsoft on the other-hand said the phrase '5 billion transistors' and it sounded pathetic, like they're going for the ADD crowd by saying 'OOH LOOK AT ALL THE FANCY TERMS AND BIG NUMBERS!'.

LordTerminal:

deadish:

Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Again, this is not criticism anymore. This is PC gamer propaganda. You don't withhold information and lie to the public even when giving criticism.

From the guy that coined the derisive term, "The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race", that went on to hit meme status?

deadish:
He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

You seem to misunderstand the word. In a professional sense a critic is 'a person who judges the merits of literary or artistic works, especially one who does so professionally.' (OED 2013)

Peter Brook explains the role eloquently in this article: http://austintheatre.blogspot.co.uk/2005/12/peter-brook-on-job-of-critic.html

deadish:

Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Uh yeah he isn't mentioning it because his point wasn't whether it could be turned off or not but that the social media features are a pointless waste of time in the first place. A point with which I happen to agree. Consoles used to be great because they were a reasonable cost, mostly non bullshit way to play fun games. Now days though developers seem to have forgotten this and are trying to morph their creations into something a large portion of the customer base doesn't need. Or more importantly doesn't actually want. And to add insult to injury aside from the extra uneeded bells and whistles these new consoles don't seem to offer much of an improvement to the gaming experience.

Hyakunin Isshu:
I'm too lazy to make a full reply, so I'll C&P what I said in another topic:

---

But I think you all need to see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M

It is about Used Games, and how very, very bad it is for all console Game-Makers. In fact, it makes Ben Croshaw look like a giant baka for thinking Used Games aren't hurting developers, or thinking: 'it's not that bad of a thing'.

In fact, It changed my mind on the topic. Please see the whole thing before replying.
And it the link doesn't work, then look for "The Devil's Halibut - Used Games" on youtube, It's by TotalHalibut.
---

Should I argue against his opinion, or declare his argument moot because he takes so long to get to the point and failed to keep me invested in whatever he was talking about?

Anyway, I get how the used games are affecting the developers, but saying that customers shouldn't sell their games and the like is a bit too... communist? I'll just go with extreme. What I'm saying is just because the developers are crippled by this thing it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, the way I see it, the customer is free to act as they see fit, within reason, of course, and the company should persuade the customer to act in its favor. If customers opt to not buy a company's products, that too is a loss for it. It doesn't mean, however, that customers should be forced to buy its products. And it's common sense to sell something you own. Perhaps if some of the profit would go to the company that made the game? We are talking about intellectual property, after all.

catalyst8:

deadish:
He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

You seem to misunderstand the word. In a professional sense a critic is 'a person who judges the merits of literary or artistic works, especially one who does so professionally.' (OED 2013)

Peter Brook explains the role eloquently in this article: http://austintheatre.blogspot.co.uk/2005/12/peter-brook-on-job-of-critic.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic

A critic doesn't have to be "balanced".

Also Yahtzee is part critic, part comedian. Those of us who tune in to ZP on a regular basis are full aware of his bias toward "making fun of stuff".

Some of his points are valid, some are nitpicking for humorous effect. Which of his opinions fall into which camp ... well that's up to you to interpret.

tardcore:

deadish:

Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Uh yeah he isn't mentioning it because his point wasn't whether it could be turned off or not but that the social media features are a pointless waste of time in the first place. A point with which I happen to agree. Consoles used to be great because they were a reasonable cost, mostly non bullshit way to play fun games. Now days though developers seem to have forgotten this and are trying to morph their creations into something a large portion of the customer base doesn't need. Or more importantly doesn't actually want. And to add insult to injury aside from the extra uneeded bells and whistles these new consoles don't seem to offer much of an improvement to the gaming experience.

We have kind of hit a brick wall with console hardware advancement. The only left to improve is processing power and memory available - still a worthwhile improvement IMHO; developers don't have to cut back their vision so much due to technical limitations (less misery for the programmers too as they struggle to get the ideas of the game designers implement at a decent framerate). What else is there to improve? And no gimmicks don't count.

The social media thing can be though of as a gimmick. But who knows, some people might actually like it. /shrug

I think I might just look into getting a good PC gaming build :-\ The only thing really holding me back is space. I've already got a 27" iMac and second monitor for my graphic design/animation work, so another desktop might be a bit on the obnoxious side. But I think it'll be better than investing in any of these.

Well, we always knew PC and console market will merge some time in the future. Because lets be honest - people these days dislike specialised electronic devices. Everyone wants their gadgets to play music, browse internet, throw angry birds at dirty pigs, bake pancakes and 3D-print the latest dildo design. An all-in-one. And with prices on electronics going down every year it's not even economically viable to offer anything less!
Out with consoles, in with Ultrabooks, I say! Everything you can do, I can do better. All it takes is a selection of Bluetooth accessories.

tardcore:

deadish:

Crazycat690:
Well, with Ps4 you don't have to play online, and the whole sharing thingy is completely optional, with fun looking games announced for it... Is Yahtzee not that much in the loop or does he deliberately not mention such stuff for these videos? I'd think he'd be somewhat looking forward to Ps4, after all he always seemed to like InFamous which is just one of the launch titles set for Ps4.

He is deliberately not mentioning it. He is a critic not a reviewer. His job is to bash and pick apart stuff, not give a fair overview of things.

Uh yeah he isn't mentioning it because his point wasn't whether it could be turned off or not but that the social media features are a pointless waste of time in the first place. A point with which I happen to agree. Consoles used to be great because they were a reasonable cost, mostly non bullshit way to play fun games. Now days though developers seem to have forgotten this and are trying to morph their creations into something a large portion of the customer base doesn't need. Or more importantly doesn't actually want. And to add insult to injury aside from the extra uneeded bells and whistles these new consoles don't seem to offer much of an improvement to the gaming experience.

I blame the people who bought the PS2 partially or solely due to it having a built-in DVD player for causing this mentality with console developers in the first place.

Absolutely spot on, and no, I refuse to be held hostage, so I won't be buying one.

I'm only now considering buying a PS3 once the PS4 drives the prices down for its exclusives, given it'll all be dirt cheap by then. Hopefully there'll be enough people playing Journey at that time for it to retain its magic.

Once again PC trumps all other contenders. Full Steam ahead, PC gaming!

Mosesj:

Decabo:
His criticisms of the PS4 seemed rather forced, IMO. He basically talked about optional features as if they were manditory, and gave no credit to it not needing to be online to play games, not blocking used games, and already having some strong exclusives lined up. (Such as Infamous Second Son, a series he really likes) But whatever, bashing things is what pays his bills.

The reason why ps4 is forcedf is because there is very little revealed about it. The share button was the only real feature mentioned. There is a chance it might be online or blocked used games, even if it's unlikely at this point

To be totally explicit: Sony hasn't commented one way or the other on used games or always-online. And all the hashtags in the world aren't going to change their mind.

LordTerminal:

deadish:

LordTerminal:

Again, this is not criticism anymore. This is PC gamer propaganda. You don't withhold information and lie to the public even when giving criticism.

From the guy that coined the derisive term, "The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race", that went on to hit meme status?

Also the guy who e-begged to afford a ticket to PAX a couple of years ago. Something tells me he's not doing this show for criticism anymore. It's because his pretentious bar doesn't earn enough money nor does his novelist career so he has to go to TheEscapist for money now.

Yahtzee should not even be doing this show anymore if he's going to act like an elitist propaganda minister with this bullcrap.

LOL. OK whatever man.

Obviously, I'm talking to a Yahtzee hater here. That or you are a troll - given the newness of your account, I would not be surprised.

Either way, no point continuing this "discussion".

sharada:
Well, we always knew PC and console market will merge some time in the future. Because lets be honest - people these days dislike specialised electronic devices. Everyone wants their gadgets to play music, browse internet, throw angry birds at dirty pigs, bake pancakes and 3D-print the latest dildo design. An all-in-one. And with prices on electronics going down every year it's not even economically viable to offer anything less!
Out with consoles, in with Ultrabooks, I say! Everything you can do, I can do better. All it takes is a selection of Bluetooth accessories.

I'm quite fond of my TI-84 Plus Pocket SE, thank you.

Just say there is still a place for specialised products. >.>

I don't really understand Yahtzee's bashing of the Wii U. I think the controller's fine, and the games I've played so far either put the touch screen to good use or have it completely optional. Not to mention, having "no games" is not Nintendo's fault at all, just because the third-party developers are a bunch of dicks, ESPECIALLY Ubisoft the lying back-stabbers, so counting that as a strike against Nintendo feels like you're actively TRYING to find reasons to say the Wii U is shit. And even IF you're only doing that to get a laugh, it still makes you an asshole.

This is why a billion dollars was spent on first-year exclusive titles. MS fundamentally knows it's about the games, so they're not worried about the bad relationship when people will put up with it for the sex.

Thank you, Yahtzee. I share in his appraisal of next-gen consoles nearly entirely. I was especially impressed that he touched on the idea of the console doing more for its corporate overlord than the player these days (by bending the buyer over and reaming them until they drop cash and personal information wherever possible), and that buying a console because of an "exclusive" isn't a healthy validation of a choice in the market - it IS a hostage situation where players are forced to either put up with whatever egregious demands the console manufacturer insists upon, or be unable to access the game title.

Since the advent of this console generation, I've been saying that we the gaming community quite honestly, need to stamp out the idea of the console once and for all. What was once the only way to get a relatively affordable gaming machine in the house in the NES through PS2/GC era has been outmoded by the advance of technology. The X360/PS3 are little more than locked down, proprietary PCs that restrict rather than enable. Worse, they hold your games hostage - if you want to play Halo 4.. you HAVE to do it on an Xbox360 and you have to pay for your XLiveGold subscription. You don't have the option to say.. roll your own Halo4 server on rented hosting, or use Steam for your friends list and matchmaking etc.. you're locked into the entire console's ecosystem and control. When Sony decided that "OtherOS" shouldn't exist any more on PS3, you had to give up playing games on the thing if you wanted to keep that functionality (because without the update that took away OtherOS, you couldn't go online or load titles with a newer dash required), or just put up with Sony having control over that $600 box you paid for in your living room. Does anyone remember how we added $10 to the price of every AAA publisher game this generation, to $60 USD from $50, on PS3 and X360? That was the cut to be given to Sony and Microsoft. For awhile, Wii and PC game versions used to be cheaper (until Bobby Kotick and friends decided that if gamers were stupid enough to pay $60 for the latest Madden, they would just think that is how much games cost regardless of platform - pure greed, pure profit for publishers and truly rage-worthy).

This past generation marks the point when consoles have turned away from enabling fun gaming for their owners, to serving the increasingly draconian and greedy ends of the corporations that market them and as such, have become a pox on gaming. It is time to leave the idea of the "console" in the dust of history, to put our collective foot down as gamers and say "enough!". There are better opportunities for gaming on the "PC", where users can choose the experience they want instead of having a locked-down force fed operation. Games are all designed on PC and the experience of universally better (Mod support, for instance). For both developers and gamers there are a multitude of options on the "PC" to fit any experience and do so at a lower cost, on hardware that we generally already own and can be used for other functions. While I tend to favor the more open toolsets and platforms (ie Linux, OpenGL etc..), what is most important is that for the time being my PC is mine and under my control; I can choose the hardware and software I like and make the decisions I wish for my own preference. Microsoft/Sony can't "Ban" my PC from ever playing games again if I use a hack in order to load a fan undub, for instance. Hell, I can have a better experience playing Twilight Princess and Muramasa on my PC with the Dolphin Emulator (at 1080p with tons of AA/AF if I so choose) than I can on the Wii. There's never any question about backward compatibility - hell, I can install emulators or even virtual machines to run older content. I can sync a controller of my choosing to my PC for when I wish to play using a gamepad. The benefits are limitless.

Imagine now that your favorite games were available on PC instead of being restricted to a single console platform. Why would you settle for the restrictions of the console environment? It would be a superior, less expensive experience with a ton more options that you control - from mod support, to varying graphical fidelity to accommodate a wide variety of hardware, to multiple points of purchase and operating system support. Instead, the industry has convinced us to kowtow to their unrelenting greed by, just as Yahtzee says, holding our games hostage. Instead of thinking "Wow, I really need to consider buying a 2-year contract on an XboxOne so I can play Game X", we should be demanding that Game X should be available on the PC platform, because we don't like games being used as leverage to coerce us into allowing intrusions to our wallet and our privacy! Don't accept this false dichotomy - refuse to buy games that are console exclusive and let developers and publishers know. Support those who do change their ways and especially the indie studios who make the most ethical decisions with regard to open platforms.

It all starts with YOU. We can change this, but it does mean giving up on some games and platforms that you may otherwise wish to play, if they didn't ask for access to your first born offspring and a Kinect colonoscopy!

E-Penguin:
I wonder what sort of LPs Yahtzee watches.

In case noone has answered this yet - Something Awful-type LPs.
The superior kind, in other words, albeit not always as entertaining, to most people, at least.

If you wish to know more, just google "Something Awful" in combination with "Let's Play".
A lot of fairly interesting stuff, I have to say.

ExtraDebit:
.

Xbone and Wii U on the other hand seems like their problem it's hardwire at its core and it's not fixable. Nintendo's problem is a shitty gimmicky controller and M$'s problem is the entire console.

First of all, the Wii U gamepad isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Secondly, even if it were, how is that 'unfixable' exactly?

I mean, Did you know for instance that the Wii U supports something like 6 alternative control methods to that 'shitty gimmicky controller'?
There's certainly no lack of ways of fixing a problem with the controller, if there actually was one to begin with...

In most cases it's pretty much identical to having a normal game controller, just like every other system has anyway;.
Dual analog sticks, 4 shoulder buttons. 4 face buttons, 2 other buttons.
And all of them work reliably.

But sure. It's an 'unfixable' problem...

E-Penguin:
I wonder what sort of LPs Yahtzee watches.

Wouldn't be sure. I thought he was referring to him making LP's.

i'm just going to upgrade my pc again i guess.. if i have to. there's not really anything it can't play atm.

Sadly, some exclusive would probably convince to buy the crap.
I'll do my best to resist tho.

it really sucks when the thing i use as an outlet to not get angry (video games) is making me angry because of all the bull from the makers of them.

RanceJustice:
Imagine now that your favorite games were available on PC instead of being restricted to a single console platform. Why would you settle for the restrictions of the console environment? It would be a superior, less expensive experience with a ton more options that you control - from mod support, to varying graphical fidelity to accommodate a wide variety of hardware, to multiple points of purchase and operating system support. Instead, the industry has convinced us to kowtow to their unrelenting greed by, just as Yahtzee says, holding our games hostage. Instead of thinking "Wow, I really need to consider buying a 2-year contract on an XboxOne so I can play Game X", we should be demanding that Game X should be available on the PC platform, because we don't like games being used as leverage to coerce us into allowing intrusions to our wallet and our privacy! Don't accept this false dichotomy - refuse to buy games that are console exclusive and let developers and publishers know. Support those who do change their ways and especially the indie studios who make the most ethical decisions with regard to open platforms.

I am. It comes at the cost of every problem devs have been stamping onto consoles lately being applied to the PC now. No thank you.

Also you're not helping my views on PC gamers being pretentious with your evangelist style ramblings.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Out of the three next gen consoles, I might, *might* get a PS4. Eventually. But I see absolutely no reason to even entertain the thought of getting the other two, and have no incentive for getting any next gen console this year, or even next year. Most of the games I've played lately are all ones that lend themselves much better to a PC environment. Games likes Fallout: NV, Skyrim, Morrowind, Civilization 4, and so on. Games that benefit from great mod support, and are much cheaper and financially viable on the PC than any console anyway. I'm content with waiting several years for a next-gen system to amass enough quality exclusives to be truly worthwhile.

And this is coming from someone that only got into PC gaming a couple of years ago, and who is an avid fan and owner of a PS1, PS2, Xbox 360, and most recently, a PS3.

I'm with you on the whole "exclusives held hostage" thing. Well put Yahtzee.

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