The Big Picture: Superman Revisited

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Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:
The main problem with superman recently is just how ultimately strong and invisible he is. He seems to be running into the mudflation. Someone makes a super strong superhero, and superman has to be stronger. Someone makes a super fast superhero, and superman has to be faster.

You do realise Superman isn't even in the Top 5 of the most powerful Justice League member.

He's not even in the top 100, or even 1000 most powerful DC character.

A statement like that needs to be backed up by something. I mean, have you seen this?

I've seen it several dozen times, it underpowers both Superman and Goku.

This is where Superman ranks on the JLA/JL scale:

1. Spectre

2. Phantom Stranger

3. Doctor Fate

4. Wally West's Flash

5. Barry Allen's Flash

6. Captain Atom

7. Kyle Rayner's Green Lantern

8. Alan Scott's Green Lantern

9. Jay Garrick's Flash

10. Martian Manhunter

11. Captain Marvel / Superman

(This is off the top of my head, I'm sure I've forgotten some people)

And on the DC Universe as a whole, jesus, I could sit here all day and still wouldn't have enough time to list everyone stronger than Supes.

Every 5th Dimensional Imp, every New God, every Martian, Swamp Thing, The Presence, Michael and Lucifer, every Spectre, The Great Evil Beast, every incarnation of the Anti-Monitor, the regular Monitor, Mandrakk, the Source, anyone connected to the Speed Force.

Ion, Parallax and every other avatar of emotion.

Imperiex, Doomsday, Trigon, the Guardians of the Universe, Zoom and Professor Zoom, Time Trapper, Starbreaker, Amazo, The Entity, Saint of Killers, every Endless, Ares, Zeus, Cythonna and... You get the point.

I'm still laughing that you linked that video as if it makes Superman out to be some sort of god, I mean, how weak did you think he was before you saw that video? lol

Mr_Terrific:

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:
The main problem with superman recently is just how ultimately strong and invisible he is. He seems to be running into the mudflation. Someone makes a super strong superhero, and superman has to be stronger. Someone makes a super fast superhero, and superman has to be faster.

You do realise Superman isn't even in the Top 5 of the most powerful Justice League member.

He's not even in the top 100, or even 1000 most powerful DC character.

What? Is this sarcasm? Never been good at detecting sarcasm that is blatantly wrong or misleading....

I take it you've never actually read a DC comic?

Hutzpah Chicken:

2) Superman's flaws lie in what he believes is perfect and the right thing to do but his actions cause greater problems in the world, i.e. Infinite Crisis.

Was that what Infinite Crisis was about? I have some research to do.

80sboy:
I agree.

We're living in an age where ever hero has to be an anti-hero. No one understand characters that just want to do good anymore because they think they're just one-dimensional boy scouts, while angry brooding murderous characters like Wolverine supposedly have depth...lol

(not saying I don't like Wolverine...honestly, I love him...but he is just a one-dimensional angry fuck...lol)

Up till now, the only other movie except for the original Superman movies with Chris Reeves that got it right was Captain American. Unfortunately for that movie though, after the genuinely good 1st act, the 2nd and 3rd went to shit as it became a bland mind numbing bore, as if the director just decided to finish it off and pass the character onto the Avengers. Also, HOW THE FUCK do you make Red Skull into a mind numbing bore of a character? Damn, that movie went to shit!

Oh, and as for Sam Raimi's Spiderman? Nope! He was just a one-dimensional forgettable goodie-two-shoes.

:P

Wolverine's angry loner schtick doesn't work anymore since he appears in a lot of X-Men books and he's still an Avenger, though I think his role is downplayed since Jonathan Hickman took over writing.
As for your Captain America argument, it's all over the place. Did we watch the same movie? You claim it got Cap right, then call it and the Red Skull boring? Hugo Weaving just ate up the scenery as the Skull!

OlasDAlmighty:
Bob, your distaste towards Nolan's Bane continues to confuse and amuse me, but on every other point I couldn't agree more. Superman has already been adapted almost perfectly, twice, Superman II being at least as good as it's predecessor. It's just a shame both movies are so... 80s.

Why does Bob hate on TDKR? I thought he thought it was OK, and I liked how they did Bane! I was thoroughly entertained, and that's the least I asked for from that movie.
I do have high hopes for Man of Steel, and so far, I'm not disappointed.

Was that what Infinite Crisis was about? I have some research to do.[/quote]I don't think so, IC was about Superman being damn near ineffectual despite his power it appears he makes no real imapct like the burn Batman gave him when he said The Biggest impact was when he bit the dust

image Love this scene. (One of the few times Johns rights Batman well)

I was hoping that he had something to say about the actual movie, not the iconic 80's movies. Yes, they were good movies, but my issue is that the last movie made Superman out to be something that he wasn't.
He is good, and he is super. He has a known weakness. How hard is it to do this for the current generation, especially since more people are into villains these days. The fact that he is so "super" makes it easy to develop a super devious villain who can use kryptonite.

Darth_Payn:
As for your Captain America argument, it's all over the place. Did we watch the same movie? You claim it got Cap right, then call it and the Red Skull boring? Hugo Weaving just ate up the scenery as the Skull!

Well, I can barely remember a thing after the 1st act, except for the fact of how bored I got in the movie theater. Let Bob complain as much as he wants about Bane (and personally I'd say the problem with the character was he just turned out to be a mook once she stepped in). But at least I remember most of the scenes with him in it, and they were genuinely good. I remember how he beat the fuck out of the Batman, and when Batman was trying to play hid-and-go-seek with him in the dark.

lol

And I know it's not just me losing my memory with CAP because I remember all the 1st act scenes in it, and, I remember specific lines too almost verbatim, "I don't want to kill anyone. I just don't like bullies, I don't care where they're from."

But, I can't remember a damn thing about Red Skull, and when I try to, all that comes to mind is "Mr. Anderson" (wrong movie)...and that just tells me there was no performance there.

Plus all I remember of the second and third act was there was an Asian that was from Fresno, there was a long silly montage, and some guy hit a propeller....ewww!

Like Yathzee once said, if you're brain refuses to remember it after the game/movie ends, then it must be crap. (not verbatim)

:/

I enjoyed the film when I was younger, and I think I need to see it again. Yet somehow I remember the second one a bit more. In a way, that did show some level of development for Superman since he willingly gave up his powers. This, in turn showed him up to be very naive and almost childlike in nature. After all, with his godlike powers to protect him, he never really had to make compromises. He was the man in the white hat that would always win in the end.
The second he lost that strength, speed, and invulnerability, he only then became truly accustomed to the harsh realities of the outside world. Unlike other superheroes, he always was Superman, he just pretended to be Clark Kent (thank you Bill for that little observation). He always had his powers, and so nothing truly worried him. Thus he could continue to be this child believing in absolutes of good and evil.
As an aside, I would also add Charles Xavier to to that list of figures of absolute good. At least in the films anyway. Similarly, he has certain privileges that allow him to enjoy an outlook on life that others might not share. Though crippled, he possesses great wealth, high social status, and a keen intellect. Again, as Bob mentions, an effective story (unlike X-Men First Class) shows the reactions of those around him.

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

You do realise Superman isn't even in the Top 5 of the most powerful Justice League member.

He's not even in the top 100, or even 1000 most powerful DC character.

A statement like that needs to be backed up by something. I mean, have you seen this?

I've seen it several dozen times, it underpowers both Superman and Goku.

This is where Superman ranks on the JLA/JL scale:

1. Spectre

2. Phantom Stranger

3. Doctor Fate

4. Wally West's Flash

5. Barry Allen's Flash

6. Captain Atom

7. Kyle Rayner's Green Lantern

8. Alan Scott's Green Lantern

9. Jay Garrick's Flash

10. Martian Manhunter

11. Captain Marvel / Superman

(This is off the top of my head, I'm sure I've forgotten some people)

And on the DC Universe as a whole, jesus, I could sit here all day and still wouldn't have enough time to list everyone stronger than Supes.

Every 5th Dimensional Imp, every New God, every Martian, Swamp Thing, The Presence, Michael and Lucifer, every Spectre, The Great Evil Beast, every incarnation of the Anti-Monitor, the regular Monitor, Mandrakk, the Source, anyone connected to the Speed Force.

Ion, Parallax and every other avatar of emotion.

Imperiex, Doomsday, Trigon, the Guardians of the Universe, Zoom and Professor Zoom, Time Trapper, Starbreaker, Amazo, The Entity, Saint of Killers, every Endless, Ares, Zeus, Cythonna and... You get the point.

I'm still laughing that you linked that video as if it makes Superman out to be some sort of god, I mean, how weak did you think he was before you saw that video? lol

I'd love to see your math on the subject since you think they so under powered superman. Especially since they literally placed his strength orders of magnitude beyond Dragon Ball Z levels of ridiculousness. I'm surprised you think arguing he's even more powerful than that will invalidate my dislike for him for being absurdly overpowered. They out right call the future him all powerful god, how is he being under powered?

While some of the characters you name are more powerful, others are highly debatable. New Gods, Superman has beaten Darkseid, Doomsday, an evil version of superman beat him easily.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

FYI, Their math is terrible, and their picking of situations to use as an measuring stick of their abilities is skewed, but if anything it's overpowering superman more than anything. Their understanding of how much force a supernova would impart on a human sized body shows a fundamental misunderstanding of physics.

Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:

A statement like that needs to be backed up by something. I mean, have you seen this?

I've seen it several dozen times, it underpowers both Superman and Goku.

This is where Superman ranks on the JLA/JL scale:

1. Spectre

2. Phantom Stranger

3. Doctor Fate

4. Wally West's Flash

5. Barry Allen's Flash

6. Captain Atom

7. Kyle Rayner's Green Lantern

8. Alan Scott's Green Lantern

9. Jay Garrick's Flash

10. Martian Manhunter

11. Captain Marvel / Superman

(This is off the top of my head, I'm sure I've forgotten some people)

And on the DC Universe as a whole, jesus, I could sit here all day and still wouldn't have enough time to list everyone stronger than Supes.

Every 5th Dimensional Imp, every New God, every Martian, Swamp Thing, The Presence, Michael and Lucifer, every Spectre, The Great Evil Beast, every incarnation of the Anti-Monitor, the regular Monitor, Mandrakk, the Source, anyone connected to the Speed Force.

Ion, Parallax and every other avatar of emotion.

Imperiex, Doomsday, Trigon, the Guardians of the Universe, Zoom and Professor Zoom, Time Trapper, Starbreaker, Amazo, The Entity, Saint of Killers, every Endless, Ares, Zeus, Cythonna and... You get the point.

I'm still laughing that you linked that video as if it makes Superman out to be some sort of god, I mean, how weak did you think he was before you saw that video? lol

I'd love to see your math on the subject since you think they so under powered superman. Especially since they literally placed his strength orders of magnitude beyond Dragon Ball Z levels of ridiculousness. I'm surprised you think arguing he's even more powerful than that will invalidate my dislike for him for being absurdly overpowered. They out right call the future him all powerful god, how is he being under powered?

While some of the characters you name are more powerful, others are highly debatable. New Gods, Superman has beaten Darkseid, Doomsday, an evil version of superman beat him easily.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

FYI, Their math is terrible, and their picking of situations to use as an measuring stick of their abilities is skewed, but if anything it's overpowering superman more than anything. Their understanding of how much force a supernova would impart on a human sized body shows a fundamental misunderstanding of physics.

They used his strength feat completely out of context; Starbreaker was pulling the earth towards the sun the whole time, they never took that into account, they took one of the slowest travel speed feats for him, where it takes him a few minutes to fly to the sun even when he's travelled to Vega and back in seconds, they didn't mention his femtosecond reaction speed or anything other than the face value of his powers, he was massively underpowered in that video.

And no, it doesn't do jack shit for your argument of Superman being overpowered, Martian Manhunter, Flash and Captain Atom still stand heads and shoulders above him.

"Superman has beaten Darkseid"

Wrong, Post-Crisis Superman has never defeated Darkseid on his own in canon, never.

Doomsday

I should have clarified; Modern Doomsday.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

Um, okay, are you going to tell me who they are? What lists they are? Name anyone else who is on the list? Anything?

it's overpowering superman more than anything.

It really, really isn't, Goku and Superman are so much more powerful than portrayed in the video it's honestly a disgrace.

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

I've seen it several dozen times, it underpowers both Superman and Goku.

This is where Superman ranks on the JLA/JL scale:

1. Spectre

2. Phantom Stranger

3. Doctor Fate

4. Wally West's Flash

5. Barry Allen's Flash

6. Captain Atom

7. Kyle Rayner's Green Lantern

8. Alan Scott's Green Lantern

9. Jay Garrick's Flash

10. Martian Manhunter

11. Captain Marvel / Superman

(This is off the top of my head, I'm sure I've forgotten some people)

And on the DC Universe as a whole, jesus, I could sit here all day and still wouldn't have enough time to list everyone stronger than Supes.

Every 5th Dimensional Imp, every New God, every Martian, Swamp Thing, The Presence, Michael and Lucifer, every Spectre, The Great Evil Beast, every incarnation of the Anti-Monitor, the regular Monitor, Mandrakk, the Source, anyone connected to the Speed Force.

Ion, Parallax and every other avatar of emotion.

Imperiex, Doomsday, Trigon, the Guardians of the Universe, Zoom and Professor Zoom, Time Trapper, Starbreaker, Amazo, The Entity, Saint of Killers, every Endless, Ares, Zeus, Cythonna and... You get the point.

I'm still laughing that you linked that video as if it makes Superman out to be some sort of god, I mean, how weak did you think he was before you saw that video? lol

I'd love to see your math on the subject since you think they so under powered superman. Especially since they literally placed his strength orders of magnitude beyond Dragon Ball Z levels of ridiculousness. I'm surprised you think arguing he's even more powerful than that will invalidate my dislike for him for being absurdly overpowered. They out right call the future him all powerful god, how is he being under powered?

While some of the characters you name are more powerful, others are highly debatable. New Gods, Superman has beaten Darkseid, Doomsday, an evil version of superman beat him easily.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

FYI, Their math is terrible, and their picking of situations to use as an measuring stick of their abilities is skewed, but if anything it's overpowering superman more than anything. Their understanding of how much force a supernova would impart on a human sized body shows a fundamental misunderstanding of physics.

They used his strength feat completely out of context; Starbreaker was pulling the earth towards the sun the whole time, they never took that into account, they took one of the slowest travel speed feats for him, where it takes him a few minutes to fly to the sun even when he's travelled to Vega and back in seconds, they didn't mention his femtosecond reaction speed or anything other than the face value of his powers, he was massively underpowered in that video.

And no, it doesn't do jack shit for your argument of Superman being overpowered, Martian Manhunter, Flash and Captain Atom still stand heads and shoulders above him.

"Superman has beaten Darkseid"

Wrong, Post-Crisis Superman has never defeated Darkseid on his own in canon, never.

Doomsday

I should have clarified; Modern Doomsday.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

Um, okay, are you going to tell me who they are? What lists they are? Name anyone else who is on the list? Anything?

it's overpowering superman more than anything.

It really, really isn't, Goku and Superman are so much more powerful than portrayed in the video it's honestly a disgrace.

Oh god -_-, hypertime. I'm done. I don't care enough to argue which version of superman is stronger than which version of some other character.

Here's that list if you want to look.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/elderfingolfin/lists/the-most-powerful-heroes-and-villains-in-dc/38398

I know that's true for dbz. Even laughingly week characters can blow up planets, but dbz is all about absurd power. Making superman equal to or stronger forces other characters to be around equal strength or risk becoming yamcha.

Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:

I'd love to see your math on the subject since you think they so under powered superman. Especially since they literally placed his strength orders of magnitude beyond Dragon Ball Z levels of ridiculousness. I'm surprised you think arguing he's even more powerful than that will invalidate my dislike for him for being absurdly overpowered. They out right call the future him all powerful god, how is he being under powered?

While some of the characters you name are more powerful, others are highly debatable. New Gods, Superman has beaten Darkseid, Doomsday, an evil version of superman beat him easily.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

FYI, Their math is terrible, and their picking of situations to use as an measuring stick of their abilities is skewed, but if anything it's overpowering superman more than anything. Their understanding of how much force a supernova would impart on a human sized body shows a fundamental misunderstanding of physics.

They used his strength feat completely out of context; Starbreaker was pulling the earth towards the sun the whole time, they never took that into account, they took one of the slowest travel speed feats for him, where it takes him a few minutes to fly to the sun even when he's travelled to Vega and back in seconds, they didn't mention his femtosecond reaction speed or anything other than the face value of his powers, he was massively underpowered in that video.

And no, it doesn't do jack shit for your argument of Superman being overpowered, Martian Manhunter, Flash and Captain Atom still stand heads and shoulders above him.

"Superman has beaten Darkseid"

Wrong, Post-Crisis Superman has never defeated Darkseid on his own in canon, never.

Doomsday

I should have clarified; Modern Doomsday.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

Um, okay, are you going to tell me who they are? What lists they are? Name anyone else who is on the list? Anything?

it's overpowering superman more than anything.

It really, really isn't, Goku and Superman are so much more powerful than portrayed in the video it's honestly a disgrace.

Oh god -_-, hypertime. I'm done. I don't care enough to argue which version of superman is stronger than which version of some other character.

Here's that list if you want to look.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/elderfingolfin/lists/the-most-powerful-heroes-and-villains-in-dc/38398

I know that's true for dbz. Even laughingly week characters can blow up planets, but dbz is all about absurd power. Making superman equal to or stronger forces other characters to be around equal strength or risk becoming yamcha.

What on Earth am I looking at...

I'm sorry, anything that puts Mr. Mxyztplk under the Spectre, Phantom Stranger under Darkseid and Larfleeze above Imperiex (wtf) just cannot be taken seriously.

Darth_Payn:

OlasDAlmighty:
Bob, your distaste towards Nolan's Bane continues to confuse and amuse me, but on every other point I couldn't agree more. Superman has already been adapted almost perfectly, twice, Superman II being at least as good as it's predecessor. It's just a shame both movies are so... 80s.

Why does Bob hate on TDKR? I thought he thought it was OK, and I liked how they did Bane! I was thoroughly entertained, and that's the least I asked for from that movie.
I do have high hopes for Man of Steel, and so far, I'm not disappointed.

I keep thinking that any other tentpole Comic Book Movie that came out that summer would have been on Bob's shit list because it simply. Was. Not. The Avengers. And anything that would have had the potential to eclipse The Avengers in epicness needed to get taken down a notch because no movie "earned" the right to be better.

And Bob, you know I keep coming back because I do enjoy your insightful opinions on stuff, right? The whole "wanking on The Avengers" thing? ...meh. You can look up my rants on that.

I'm in for Man of Steel, though. Could be "meh", but I'm hoping it's good. Wasn't number one on my list for the summer. That honor goes to Pacific Rim. I like and appreciate Christopher Nolan, but I am a stone-cold Guillermo Del Toro fangirl.

Sheen Lantern:

Mr_Terrific:

Sheen Lantern:

You do realise Superman isn't even in the Top 5 of the most powerful Justice League member.

He's not even in the top 100, or even 1000 most powerful DC character.

What? Is this sarcasm? Never been good at detecting sarcasm that is blatantly wrong or misleading....

I take it you've never actually read a DC comic?

I have a problem with him not being in the top 100 or 1000 as you put it. For the sake of him not being god and for the sake of teams like the JLA staying relevant, you have to have people like Darkseid and Monitors and Paralaxx being insanely strong. But based on everything you claim to know about comics, how could you drop Superman out of the top 100?

That's what I don't get.

Edit: so I looked at that list the other guy posted and that list is faulty at best. I disagree with the order of most of that but the real issue that makes that list wrong is anyone that comes after Batman that's not Shiva Wu San or Deathstroke. That and how low Superman is on that list...

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

They used his strength feat completely out of context; Starbreaker was pulling the earth towards the sun the whole time, they never took that into account, they took one of the slowest travel speed feats for him, where it takes him a few minutes to fly to the sun even when he's travelled to Vega and back in seconds, they didn't mention his femtosecond reaction speed or anything other than the face value of his powers, he was massively underpowered in that video.

And no, it doesn't do jack shit for your argument of Superman being overpowered, Martian Manhunter, Flash and Captain Atom still stand heads and shoulders above him.

"Superman has beaten Darkseid"

Wrong, Post-Crisis Superman has never defeated Darkseid on his own in canon, never.

Doomsday

I should have clarified; Modern Doomsday.

While your opinion puts him extraordinarily low on the power list, you are hardly in the majority there. On various lists I've seen, the lowest I've ever seen him placed is around 66th most powerful being in all of DC, and that list included The Presence.

Um, okay, are you going to tell me who they are? What lists they are? Name anyone else who is on the list? Anything?

it's overpowering superman more than anything.

It really, really isn't, Goku and Superman are so much more powerful than portrayed in the video it's honestly a disgrace.

Oh god -_-, hypertime. I'm done. I don't care enough to argue which version of superman is stronger than which version of some other character.

Here's that list if you want to look.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/elderfingolfin/lists/the-most-powerful-heroes-and-villains-in-dc/38398

I know that's true for dbz. Even laughingly week characters can blow up planets, but dbz is all about absurd power. Making superman equal to or stronger forces other characters to be around equal strength or risk becoming yamcha.

What on Earth am I looking at...

I'm sorry, anything that puts Mr. Mxyztplk under the Spectre, Phantom Stranger under Darkseid and Larfleeze above Imperiex (wtf) just cannot be taken seriously.

Take it up with the author. My limited interest in the subject ran out last post. In fact, my interest in the DC universe in general has decreased since my original post.

Ukomba:

Sheen Lantern:

Ukomba:

Oh god -_-, hypertime. I'm done. I don't care enough to argue which version of superman is stronger than which version of some other character.

Here's that list if you want to look.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/elderfingolfin/lists/the-most-powerful-heroes-and-villains-in-dc/38398

I know that's true for dbz. Even laughingly week characters can blow up planets, but dbz is all about absurd power. Making superman equal to or stronger forces other characters to be around equal strength or risk becoming yamcha.

What on Earth am I looking at...

I'm sorry, anything that puts Mr. Mxyztplk under the Spectre, Phantom Stranger under Darkseid and Larfleeze above Imperiex (wtf) just cannot be taken seriously.

Take it up with the author. My limited interest in the subject ran out last post. In fact, my interest in the DC universe in general has decreased since my original post.

You probably shouldn't have brought it up and expected it to argue for you, then.

Mr_Terrific:

Sheen Lantern:

Mr_Terrific:

What? Is this sarcasm? Never been good at detecting sarcasm that is blatantly wrong or misleading....

I take it you've never actually read a DC comic?

I have a problem with him not being in the top 100 or 1000 as you put it. For the sake of him not being god and for the sake of teams like the JLA staying relevant, you have to have people like Darkseid and Monitors and Paralaxx being insanely strong. But based on everything you claim to know about comics, how could you drop Superman out of the top 100?

That's what I don't get.

Presence
Great Evil Beast
The Source
Rama Kushna
Lucifer
Michael
Time Trapper
Mr. Mxyzptlk
Bat-Mite
Emperor Joker
Life
Butcher
Ophidian
Parallax
Ion
Entity
Adara
Proselyte
Predator
Black Hand
Nekron
Lord Satanus
Eclipso
Helspont
Mandrakk
Neron
Yuga Khan
S'ivaa
Gog
Rao
Cythonna
Imperiex
Spectre
Zor
Monitor
Anti-Monitor
Phantom Stranger
Gaea
John Dee
Dreamslayer
Despero
PC Mongul
Trigon
Krona
Shazam (The Wizard)
Guardians of the Universe
Doomsday (Magog)
Superboy Prime
Eradicator
Zeus
Sandman
Darkseid
Dr. Fate
Zoom
Professor Zoom
Waverider
Barry Allen
Wally West
Jay Garrick
Monarch
Jenny Quantum
Arion
Swamp Thing
Ares
Amazo
Starbreaker
Marshal
Armek
Protex
A-Mortal
ZüM
D'Kay D'Razz
Martian Manhunter
Primaid
Zenturion
Tronix
Miss Martian
Fluxus
Malefic
Captain Atom
Major Force
Firestorm
Fury
Orion
Firehawk
Hurricane
Mr. Majestic
Black Adam
Circe
White Lantern Hal Jordan
Hawkgirl (White Lantern)
Starheart Alan Scott
Ion Kyle Rayner
Star Sapphire
Larfleeze
Atrocitus
Saint Walker
Sinestro
Breach
Captain Comet

That's how.

OlasDAlmighty:
Bob, your distaste towards Nolan's Bane continues to confuse and amuse me, but on every other point I couldn't agree more. Superman has already been adapted almost perfectly, twice, Superman II being at least as good as it's predecessor. It's just a shame both movies are so... 80s.

I really liked him.

He's probably my favorite "different" take on any villain in ages for films.

Was he the south american wrestler of the animated series?

No.

Did he charm the shit out of me and make me really like him?

Yes. From the second he showed up I was hooked.

Sheen Lantern:

Presence
Great Evil Beast
The Source
Rama Kushna
Lucifer
Michael
Time Trapper
Mr. Mxyzptlk
Bat-Mite
Emperor Joker
Life
Butcher
Ophidian
Parallax
Ion
Entity
Adara
Proselyte
Predator
Black Hand
Nekron
Lord Satanus
Eclipso
Helspont
Mandrakk
Neron
Yuga Khan
S'ivaa
Gog
Rao
Cythonna
Imperiex
Spectre
Zor
Monitor
Anti-Monitor
Phantom Stranger
Gaea
John Dee
Dreamslayer
Despero
PC Mongul
Trigon
Krona
Shazam (The Wizard)
Guardians of the Universe
Doomsday (Magog)
Superboy Prime
Eradicator
Zeus
Sandman
Darkseid
Dr. Fate
Zoom
Professor Zoom
Waverider
Barry Allen
Wally West
Jay Garrick
Monarch
Jenny Quantum
Arion
Swamp Thing
Ares
Amazo
Starbreaker
Marshal
Armek
Protex
A-Mortal
ZüM
D'Kay D'Razz
Martian Manhunter
Primaid
Zenturion
Tronix
Miss Martian
Fluxus
Malefic
Captain Atom
Major Force
Firestorm
Fury
Orion
Firehawk
Hurricane
Mr. Majestic
Black Adam
Circe
White Lantern Hal Jordan
Hawkgirl (White Lantern)
Starheart Alan Scott
Ion Kyle Rayner
Star Sapphire
Larfleeze
Atrocitus
Saint Walker
Sinestro
Breach
Captain Comet

That's how.

Nice list. I think you are missing a few and frankly Antimonitor was way too far down that list >.>...

He really should be near the top of these kind of lists.

"But its not in order." you might be saying.

I know, its just the principle of the thing.

Edit: OH WOW. Bat-Mite is fantastic.

Thank you. That makes my night.

theultimateend:
Nice list. I think you are missing a few

Really? I thought I got a good deal of them, which ones did I miss?

Sheen Lantern:

theultimateend:
Nice list. I think you are missing a few

Really? I thought I got a good deal of them, which ones did I miss?

That's what is bothering me. It looks fairly complete.

Hence the qualifier "think".

I'm probably wrong since I hadn't actually heard of a few of those. Might just be that its not alphabetized so I forget what is on it.

Edit: Oddly you didn't have Flash on there actually.

There has been a lot of debate over whether he's one of the (if not the) strongest characters in DC.

He can atomize anything he touches which is kinda end game. Similarly if can vibrate out of sync with things and move through walls which...presumably...means superman couldn't hit him.

Did they ever decide who was faster? I know they raced but I never read what happened.

theultimateend:
Edit: Oddly you didn't have Flash on there actually.

There has been a lot of debate over whether he's one of the (if not the) strongest characters in DC.

He can atomize anything he touches which is kinda end game. Similarly if can vibrate out of sync with things and move through walls which...presumably...means superman couldn't hit him.

Did they ever decide who was faster? I know they raced but I never read what happened.

I did actually have Flash on there, all 3, referred to by name though.

And they rank in terms of speed:

1. Wally West
2. Barry Allen
3. Jay Garrick
4. Superman

Any one of them would be able to just absorb Superman's momentum, leaving him like a statue, then vibrate their hands through his face and pull out his brain, like a Mortal Kombat fatality.

Superman himself can also use his super speed to vibrate through stuff, but he wouldn't be fast enough to react to a Flash.

I'll admit, I'm not a fan of the first movie. Overly long, hinging on a good villain plan getting pulled of fairy dopeily, super mulligans at the end. I mean, it gets a lot right, but the rougher edges show. Yet I'd still call it one of the better interpretations.

Superman adaptions of late get lost in the iconography. In trying to raise up the character to be this ultimate godlike superhero, a lot gets caught in overcompensating (large parts of all star superman) or ignore his human half, reducing Clark Kent, the part of Superman he prefers to be, to something either very stiff, or very buffoonish. He's a supposed to ber very humble character without falling into doubt (except on Smallville) and that's what makes him work, and puts him at his best.

Man of Steel, looks good, but I expect a lot is going to get lost in spectacle trying to justify how awesome Superman is instead of just giving us a movie that lets us come to that conclusion on our own.

I swear, Bob talks about how he hate TDKR at least once every three episodes.

OT: I'm going to see it tomorrow. My friend won advanced screening tickets by winning two Magic tournaments.

Sheen Lantern:

theultimateend:
Edit: Oddly you didn't have Flash on there actually.

There has been a lot of debate over whether he's one of the (if not the) strongest characters in DC.

He can atomize anything he touches which is kinda end game. Similarly if can vibrate out of sync with things and move through walls which...presumably...means superman couldn't hit him.

Did they ever decide who was faster? I know they raced but I never read what happened.

I did actually have Flash on there, all 3, referred to by name though.

And they rank in terms of speed:

1. Wally West
2. Barry Allen
3. Jay Garrick
4. Superman

Any one of them would be able to just absorb Superman's momentum, leaving him like a statue, then vibrate their hands through his face and pull out his brain, like a Mortal Kombat fatality.

Superman himself can also use his super speed to vibrate through stuff, but he wouldn't be fast enough to react to a Flash.

Oh look at you showing me up.

Good times. I enjoyed this convo :o. Makes me want to read comics again.

Sheen Lantern:

theultimateend:
Nice list. I think you are missing a few

Really? I thought I got a good deal of them, which ones did I miss?

Wouldn't The Endless from The Sandman be more powerful than all of them, with Death at the top? Or are they not considered part of the current canon? I know the Martian Manhunter appeared in the first book, but maybe that was an alternate universe thing...

Red X:

Darth_Payn:

Was that what Infinite Crisis was about? I have some research to do.

I don't think so, IC was about Superman being damn near ineffectual despite his power it appears he makes no real imapct like the burn Batman gave him when he said The Biggest impact was when he bit the dust

image Love this scene. (One of the few times Johns rights Batman well)

I was more meaning Superman from Earth-2 who thought he was creating the perfect Earth by resurrecting Earth-2.
You know, this guy.
image

Sheen Lantern:

Mr_Terrific:

Sheen Lantern:

I take it you've never actually read a DC comic?

I have a problem with him not being in the top 100 or 1000 as you put it. For the sake of him not being god and for the sake of teams like the JLA staying relevant, you have to have people like Darkseid and Monitors and Paralaxx being insanely strong. But based on everything you claim to know about comics, how could you drop Superman out of the top 100?

That's what I don't get.

Presence
Great Evil Beast
The Source
Rama Kushna
Lucifer
Michael
Time Trapper
Mr. Mxyzptlk
Bat-Mite
Emperor Joker
Life
Butcher
Ophidian
Parallax
Ion
Entity
Adara
Proselyte
Predator
Black Hand
Nekron
Lord Satanus
Eclipso
Helspont
Mandrakk
Neron
Yuga Khan
S'ivaa
Gog
Rao
Cythonna
Imperiex
Spectre
Zor
Monitor
Anti-Monitor
Phantom Stranger
Gaea
John Dee
Dreamslayer
Despero
PC Mongul
Trigon
Krona
Shazam (The Wizard)
Guardians of the Universe
Doomsday (Magog)
Superboy Prime
Eradicator
Zeus
Sandman
Darkseid
Dr. Fate
Zoom
Professor Zoom
Waverider
Barry Allen
Wally West
Jay Garrick
Monarch
Jenny Quantum
Arion
Swamp Thing
Ares
Amazo
Starbreaker
Marshal
Armek
Protex
A-Mortal
ZüM
D'Kay D'Razz
Martian Manhunter
Primaid
Zenturion
Tronix
Miss Martian
Fluxus
Malefic
Captain Atom
Major Force
Firestorm
Fury
Orion
Firehawk
Hurricane
Mr. Majestic
Black Adam
Circe
White Lantern Hal Jordan
Hawkgirl (White Lantern)
Starheart Alan Scott
Ion Kyle Rayner
Star Sapphire
Larfleeze <-----
Atrocitus
Saint Walker
Sinestro
Breach
Captain Comet

That's how.

Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman? This guy?
image
Yeah, he's a great comic relief character, but you're saying he is better/stronger than Superman? Sounds a bit sketchy.

Hutzpah Chicken:
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman?

Yes, by far.

Sheen Lantern:

Hutzpah Chicken:
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman?

Yes, by far.

You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.

Hutzpah Chicken:

Sheen Lantern:

Hutzpah Chicken:
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman?

Yes, by far.

You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.

I don't get your confusion, you have no problem with Atrocitus or Sinestro being on the list, yet Larfleeze is stronger than either..

Sheen Lantern:

Hutzpah Chicken:

Sheen Lantern:

Yes, by far.

You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.

I don't get your confusion, you have no problem with Atrocitus or Sinestro being on the list, yet Larfleeze is stronger than either..

He is a silly character that I've always seen doing something that makes me chuckle. I haven't really seen him do anything big other than fight with Orange lantern Lex Luthor. It just strikes me as an odd idea, thats all.

Hutzpah Chicken:

Sheen Lantern:

Hutzpah Chicken:

You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.

I don't get your confusion, you have no problem with Atrocitus or Sinestro being on the list, yet Larfleeze is stronger than either..

He is a silly character that I've always seen doing something that makes me chuckle. I haven't really seen him do anything big other than fight with Orange lantern Lex Luthor. It just strikes me as an odd idea, thats all.

And? Mr. Mxyztplk is a silly character but no one argues that he's not one of the most powerful fictional characters ever.

It seems almost wrong to interrupt this shouting match over where Superman ranks on the power scale. IMO the only time Supes genuinely got taken down was by Batman in TDKR, but if you disagree go argue with someone else, cause I'm moving on...

... to say that, despite my excitement for the new movie, I thought Returns was (nominally) better than the hate it received. Granted, the story was a mess, the kid was a stupid addition, and Marsden looked like he was mailing it in AGAIN. But while Brandon Routh was only an okay Superman, I thought he was fantastic as Clark. Is it because he was channeling Reeves? Probably. Don't care. It was great.

It also left me hoping beyond hope that, like the last film, they reuse the Williams themes in the soundtrack. Like with Star Wars or Indiana Jones, those themes define the character on film like nothing else, and I got all giddy every time the music popped up in a recent rerun of the film on cable. Please please please use the Williams themes in the new film.

Hutzpah Chicken:

Red X:

Darth_Payn:

Was that what Infinite Crisis was about? I have some research to do.

I don't think so, IC was about Superman being damn near ineffectual despite his power it appears he makes no real imapct like the burn Batman gave him when he said The Biggest impact was when he bit the dust

image Love this scene. (One of the few times Johns rights Batman well)

I was more meaning Superman from Earth-2 who thought he was creating the perfect Earth by resurrecting Earth-2.
You know, this guy.
image

That was Alexanda and Superboys plan in secret, Earth-2 Kal-L was just sick of the way the heroes where killing each other hurting the world and seemingly making things worse and Alex took advantage of that

Red X:

Hutzpah Chicken:

Red X:
I don't think so, IC was about Superman being damn near ineffectual despite his power it appears he makes no real imapct like the burn Batman gave him when he said The Biggest impact was when he bit the dust

image Love this scene. (One of the few times Johns rights Batman well)

I was more meaning Superman from Earth-2 who thought he was creating the perfect Earth by resurrecting Earth-2.
You know, this guy.
image

That was Alexanda and Superboys plan in secret, Earth-2 Kal-L was just sick of the way the heroes where killing each other hurting the world and seemingly making things worse and Alex took advantage of that

My point exactly. He wanted to fix things to, in his mind, the perfect way they were in the past. Obviously, how he would have dealt with things would eventually lead to the same moral degradation of Earth-1 anyways, but that leads back to my second point that Superman's actions of what he perceives as good cause greater problems in the world.

Sound like movie for the modern masses? I'm just spit-ballin' here, btw. No biggie.

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