This just sounds wierd.... I've been playing WoW for about a year now, and know a lot of girls playing.. It's not uncommon to have girls on ventrilo, and they all speak. Off course there are more boys, but thats just how it is atm. I can't understand why the guys you mention acts like that. Where are you from? Are you from Europe or US? I'm from Europe (more specifically Norway) and i have never seen anything of what you just described, except maybe from my 12 year old brother :)
Girls exist in the Internet, and most certiantly on WoW. Why shouldn't they?
i have known a few women how played online games, the first two were in SWG, then there were two more i met in WOW. I also knew 3 women who played Ghost Recon online as well.
I think it is a maturity issue with a lot of people. some people are, well, twelve years old. other people are older, but still immature and just cannot believe that women play online games.
Whoa. Talk about thread necromancy.
Whoa. Talk about thread necromancy.
Well, technically it's a new thread - the original article didn't have a comment thread, so one was created when we rebuilt the site :)
That said, the article is written tongue-in-cheek, half-jokingly. Don't take it too literally :)
That said, the article is written tongue-in-cheek, half-jokingly. Don't take it too literally :)
But you can take it LATERALLY! Wokka wokka!
ok. yeah. that was bad.
Bad, BAD Russ.
First I'am a french guy, so maybe they're differences between internet population in our country and yours or is it just because this article is focused on revelant facts.
Anyway we can see that sort of reaction too. But it's changing. I actually play WoW on a french server and in my guild we neraly have half girls including my girlfriend ( I always choose game she loves to play with her ;) )
Keep hope : one day boys will realize they are not, with aliens, the only thinking entity in cosmos... But you girls should maybe hide that fact... keeping the real control on these funny monks ;)
found myself nodding through this article, all familiar situations. the "prove you're a girl" is one annoyance, but the "we know you don't understand technology" condecension. I'm a hacker, i write code for a living and for entertainment. I don't have a penis.. get over it.
I have to wonder how you got so lucky to run into the immature dorks. I had this weirdness every now and then come up back when I played Asheron's Call in the late 90s. "Whoa... The Viamont Kitchen is a girl IRL?!?" One guy got really weirded out and wouldn't talk to me after awhile. Another guy was really amused by a girl playing a game and found out it could be fun to play with a girl rather than make fun of her for playing. But more often than not, they were fine with me, regardless of my gender.
When I moved along to WoW, I was lucky enough to be in a guild of diversity, where boyfriends gamed with their girlfriends and husbands gamed with their wives. And kids gamed with their parents. It was a unique group. Every now and then, we'd have a PUG who'd be surprised to hear a real-life girl on Vent, but that was because they weren't used to it themselves. However, they were cool... it just took 'em a little to get used to a female voice :)
I'm used to guys though getting confused when they run into a real-life girl in a male-dominated arena - I'm a computer programmer by day :D
even though the scene may be changing the in last few years, i'd still be surprised to hear a girl playing Halo on Live. i guess it sort of comes from the fact that i've never seen a girl play Halo in real life. granted the largest community i've gamed with were on college campuses, small ones at that, but after not seeing 1 out of a pop of 5000? i feel i have some right to be surprised.
i think it'd be great to know some girl gamers though; the ladies are just better team players sometimes.
From stories I have heard, Teleios used to pwn others on games such as Unreal Tournament. So Halo would be a small step for her to take you on :)
She <3's teh Halos.
But what about Halo 2? Do girlz exist on teh Vistaz?
i can't imagine halo on a computer. that's just...wrong. haha.
I don't even bother playing online anymore because, honestly, I ran out of patience with the attitudes of the people I was playing with/ against. If a guy loses a game, he's just had a bad round. If a girl loses a game, it's because her tiny cake-baking hands and shoe shopping brain can't handle such complex operations. It's hard to be bothered going through a games' learning curve when every single loss lets your whole gender down, and every win is assumed to have been the product of your opponent's incompetence rather than your own ability.
That said, I think people would really be surprised at how many girls they've actually encountered on the internet. There are plenty of girls with far more patience and determination than me. They just don't identify themselves, for all the reasons stated in the piece.
There's an assumption that female gamers, in so far as they exist, are only interested in the two S's, Sims and Singstar. Single player and "party" games (eg. Singstar) do tend to be far more popular with female gamers than multiplayers and FPS's generally, but if you had to deal with the kind of crap that the articles author has - and I can personally attest to having experienced pretty much everything she described - then multiplayers wouldn't have much interest for you either. So it's a self perpetuating stereotype. However, the single players that sell best to girls aren't what would be considered traditionally girly - Grand Theft Auto is immensely popular with female gamers, as are survival horror games like Silent Hill.
Then there's the larger issue, that FPS's and many multiplayers just aren't designed with girls in mind. It could be something simple like offering a female body type to select. And I don't mean characters like Boobula, Sexpowered Harlot of the High Bikini Elves of Nymphomania. I mean just a female soldier or two in Battlefield, or perhaps a female character in a Tom Clancy game that wasn't some insane war criminal environmentalist. Man, that dude's bitter. Anyway. Guys always think it's a ridiculous niggle, that female gamers invariably find themselves playing as male characters, but how many of those would be happy being forced to play as female ones all the time? It sounds like a small thing, but it's not. It matter because it seriously hampers the games ability to immerse you in it's world. I can make Marcus Fenix saw up as many enemies as I like... but he'll never be my avatar in the game, he's just a guy on the screen. But then, once again, playing as a female character will attract aggro. At least it might freak people out less if they hear you speak though, I suppose.
I'm a manager in a games shop, and I'm so sick of having customers ask me to ask one of the guys a question - on the assumption that I myself couldn't - that I'm starting to get kinda resigned to it.
I was about to say this before, and got distracted. But, I've been playing a lot of DoD: Source, and every once in a while, a female voice pops up. It's very jarring, if only because it happens so rarely. And yes, all of the avatars are male. And it's WWII, and all of the in game voice bits are masculine. That lone female voice is just out of the ordinary. Nobody on the server cares, no comments are made, we just pay attention to the content of her message.
In the same sense, in Battlefield, at least every one except 2142, a female avatar would be historically inaccurate. So while it might be nice to do that role playing, it wouldn't be an accurate simulation. 2142? I don't see why not. I think we might actually have equality in the Armed Forces 135 years from now.
Gears of War? All for a disturbingly buff woman (not disturbing because she's buff, all characters in GoW are disturbingly buff).
P.S. Tom Clancy isn't bitter, he's just a misogynist.
There's an assumption that female gamers, in so far as they exist, are only interested in the two S's, Sims and Singstar.
this has definitely been my experience. the girls i know play a few rpgs and that karaoke game.
so i guess i have a question now...if you're at a party, and let's say there's a xbox hooked up with 4 controllers and halo. you're playing with 2 other guys and this lady asks to play. if you're one of the guys who's playing, how would you react when she's actually playing? would you turn down the trash talk? would you go easy on her? or wouldn't you and assume she'd only join if she knew how to play? would you comment on the fact?
if you're a girl gamer, how would you like to be treated? if you're familiar with halo, would you feel disrespected if they guys were obviously going easy on you? even if you've shown that you can keep up? what if you weren't familiar with halo (but have played other FPS on consoles), would you be turned off to the game if the guys weren't going easy on you and didn't really give you a chance? would you comment on that?
Heh, my big sister's a major girl gamer, so I grew up learning to respect them the hard way. She's mostly into RPGs, but she has played plenty of FPSes and fighting games, she even grew up on good old Jedi Knight. She used to play WoW, but she quit a while ago when she felt it was too addictive to play while she was managing her life. I hear from her guildmates that she was a kickass priest.
I couldn't calculate the number of times she kicked my ass in Tekken on Deep Thought.
I wish my sister was a gamer, but the only games that really caught her interest were The Sims and Guitar Hero.
She's bought other games, like the entire Grand Theft Auto series on PS2 and all the Need for Speeds on PS2, but I get the feeling that she doesn't really like those games, and only bought them because she had so much free time, and was planning on getting into gaming with said time, but really she used all that time up reading books and comics and hasn't really stopped to play any of the games she bought.
Given the number of female service personel serving in the Middle East today in the US Military, I'd consider a female avatar to be allowable in a game set in the present. There are ostensibly frontline restrictions on female troops, but the front line is hard to pin down, and plenty of female troops see combat. That said: fair enough, for WWII shooters, it would be historically inaccurate - but at the same time it remains a factor in the gender balance of the audience, and one that cannot be discounted. Medal of Honour lost some of it's appeal to me when it lost Manon.
I do play Halo, and I play it against guys, although only face to face, not online. They're usually guys I've played against before, so we're all already over the usual crap. I can both dish and receive the requisite trash talk, and my gender is fair game then just like that guy's glasses are, or that dude's tattoos. While I don't want them to go easy on me, and I don't need them too, I do seem to present something of a common enemy. Doesn't matter how well those guys know me or how much they've seen me play, none of them wants to be the guy who loses to a girl, so they have a tendency to try and take me out first and then worry about each other. I can live with it, I could take your eye out from a mile off with that damn pistol, tank bedamned. :D
But Halo is one thing, you can pretty much pick up all the skills to play a human player by playing the single player campaign. Something like Dawn of War, there's no substitute for a human opponent, and getting a handle on each race's multiplayer strengths and weaknesses takes time. It's immensely discouraging when the time it takes to rack up the experience hours needed to start playing seriously is time spent being the punchline to a Girls-Can't-Play-Games joke. When and if I play online, and like I say I don't really do so anymore, I find it easier to basically let everybody assume I'm a guy. It's a practical solution, I just wish it wasn't necessary.
I know good female gamers. I get my ass kicked by good female gamers.
But then when I try to get my friend Anne to play Halo with me (even on the easiest difficulty) she has her gun aimed at the floor and is running around in circles. It's not that she doesn't like games; she loved to play ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, and Prince of Persia... she just sort of sucked at them. >_>
This is my first post on these forums (was attracted here by the zero punctuation bioshock from digg and the psychonauts gaming circle) and I figured i'd add my two cents.
I'm a male gamer and i dont understand the attitude some of these people take on female gamers; asking for proof, assuming she is a worse player etc.
I feel the sex of a player is completely irrelevant, 75% of the time i dont even know the gender of the person im playing with and even if i do it doesnt change a thing.
damn I feel sorry for her she ran into some of the most immature people on "teh intraweb" if I find out someone is a girl I just play doesn't make any difference to me and hopefully some day it'll be more like that
And here I thought that "girls don't exist on the internet" was just a joke. And until now it was funny. I honestly did not think that people were still like this. That's no fun at all.
There are ostensibly frontline restrictions on female troops, but the front line is hard to pin down, and plenty of female troops see combat. That said: fair enough, for WWII shooters, it would be historically inaccurate - but at the same time it remains a factor in the gender balance of the audience, and one that cannot be discounted. Medal of Honour lost some of it's appeal to me when it lost Manon.
True, but I still doubt I'm going to see America's Army use female avatars anytime soon, since female troops are not sent on combat missions. Possibly more at home in a Battlefield scenario, where a currently held base is being assaulted, and thus large numbers of support troops could get pulled into the firefights. Either way, 2142 doesn't really have any excuses, nor does GRAW (except perpetuation of current stereotypes). I look forward to the point when none of this matters.
I wasn't familiar with Manon Batiste, but it is interesting to see a female character in that context. When did the series "lose" her?
To be fair, Manon was only playable in one game, Medal of Honour: Underground back on the PS1, and I have fond memories of Underground largely because it was a genuinely unusual take on the standard WWII shooter idea. It looked at the war - with some artistic license, it must be said - from the perspective of the French Resistance, which just isn't done enough, in my opinion. Anyway, it's been surpassed since, but at the time, the touch of stealthy cunning and unusual ideas rocked my tiny mind. I wish EA would've had a look at some of the thinking in it, rather than finding ways to recycle the beach assault over and over... :p
The real question is, why pictures? Thats silly. You can get pictures of girls from anywhere. They could be using stock photos for all you know. What kind of confirmation are pictures? It seems like people are willing to believe you're wasting processing power on changing the characteristics of your voice but a picture is somehow absolute proof.
It just doesn't make sense!
Gamers are a reflection of all facets of popular culture. And when a lot of that culture classifies women as 'be-yoches' or "mysterious cootie factories", you are going to have a fair portion of ignorant asses mouthing off. But...how many gamers ARE idiots like that? It doesnt take many to really ruin your day. The other 90% of gamers are not cretins like that. I have given up hope that society will ever get beyond a minimum number of morons, and the anonymity of the internet allows them to speak out without the normal real world social responses that might otherwise make them think twice. Any real man should speak up when this happens, if only to validate that not all of us are like that.
And its a two sided battle here, I think its up to women gamers to point out they are there and they want to play, not hide or run away. Don't let the knuckle draggers win! The only way to be equal is to BE EQUAL. STand your ground, you have a right to be there.
I play her on Halo 2 all the time. Her tag is CockTease158 (CockTease 1 - 157 were already taken.)
(CockTease 1 - 157 were already taken.)
that's sort of disconcerting, yet mildly amusing.
It's a weird concept, to think people can't accept the fact women play games. I know I already hold a kind of bias when confronted with it, as when I'm being ganked by a level 70 female Elf Ranger on WoW I usually assume it's a 30 year old fat guy who lives with his mother, mostly based on demographics and the mindset necessary to do something like camp newb bodies for ten minutes. But that's the thing, it's possible I'm totally wrong and assuming that that could very well be some bloodthirsty Alliance femme fatale.
But I admit... most every time I'm playing someone online, unless their name suggests otherwise, I'll assume it's a male. And even then, I'll be skeptic, particularly if they're behaving rather falsely.
I won't call them out on it, though. I can at least say that.
In a related note, I know people constantly yell things like "that was so homosexual" or "you're gay" or even "fag" in games like Counter-Strike. It's bizarre, since the atmosphere rubs off on you when you're playing, and you find yourself roaring about how "gay" that kill was, not just in one game but in more and more. Smash Brothers, UT05, Need for Speed...
The really weird bit about it is that, myself being gay, I start to wonder if maybe I'm being some sort of sacrilegious prick. Is it disrespectful to myself to use a term like that?
So you come to things like women in sports saying "You shoot like a girl" or "You run like a girl." They do, sometimes--not all of them, but it happens. And that gender bias that has been there so long is frustrating, and often we overlook it and forget to think about what we're saying.
How do you get rid of it, when women have to buy special merchandise every time of the month just because they're women, or pay for Pregnancy Insurance, just because they're women...? The world is already geared for that discrimination to exist, just as America is geared to discriminate against the poor and the "not-white".
In the end, you can't ignore gender--but you can't let it get in the way.
If there were a way to gear the virtual worlds in which we reside to be openminded, perhaps this would be a less recurring issue... but how to manage that?
I'm a girl gamer, and I play Counter Strike Source often enough. Not only am I a girl, I play a violent first person shooter. To top that off, I own. I may not be #1 on the server, but I will often be a high scorer, or a cluth player for a team.
My woes often mirror your own with small differences. I'm often mistaken for a pre-teen boy. "Whoa, Mew Mew [my cs name], are you a girl?" "Uh, yeah." "No you're not." "I'm not?" "No, you're a little boy." "I am? Are you sure? I'm old enough to be your mother, by the sounds of how this conversation is going." "Omg, are you hot?" "*sigh*"
Yes, the guy desperation complex is taxing. I frequent 1 server often, but sometimes I branch out, but when I do, I keep hush-hush. I don't want to be pestered when I'm destorying the server.
I talked about this topic last Saturday on my internet radio. I have seen girls mostly on gaming business, but never on demoscene. Girls seem to be more interested in graphics than in programming and they are more like "users" than "creators" on computer related topics. This is my opinion. But so true, girls do not exist on demoscene.