Zero Punctuation: Halo 3

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I wonder which is worse/ more amusing? The (rather telling which I find worst/ most amusing) imbeciles who would pick apart an opinion piece they find unfavourable and therefore "wrong", the people who try and argue against them or the people who sit on the fence and make irritating comments such as this one.

I've been enjoying Zero Punctuation and FullyRamblomatic for several moments in time, let's hope he continues to provide these opinion pieces.

So I went back to watch the Bioshock review again and Yahtzee mentioned "noone likes it when (he) is nice to a game" so it might a good idea to bare that in mind before you go saying he's too "hard" on your favorite game. Remember he did point out flaws on games he did like (Bioshock and Psychonauts) so you can't really say you're surprised he didn't give a glowing review to Halo 3. Unless you're basically willing to admit you're that stupid,in which case,you have our sympathies and don't let the lack of intelligence get you down,you can always go into politics.

Anywho,I got to thinking about how Yahtzee is basically saying people like it better when he gives a rather negative review and then I thought about how a lot of reviewers only note the positives of certain games. And either way,reviewers are only talking about what other people have done,whether for or again' it. So here's a question I'd like to ask any and all reviewers of The Escapist,or any other review sites/magazines. What would be your "perfect game"? You can make it short like "the play control from Game A,the level design of Game B,and the writing from Game C." or "GTA with a first person view on foot and multiplayer" or you can go into detail,like the staff you'd like making it right down to the interns,the intellectual properties you'd use,and so on and so forth. Just get the point across.

Thanks for reading.

I replayed 3:14 to 3:33 five times in a row. LURVELY!

Like Yahtzee, I didn't play Halo, didn't play Halo 2 and won't play Halo 3 unless they pay me. The series, until now, looks like a decent concoction of "meh" and other games outclass it so well in the departments that matter. Or, to put it in milder terms because one has to be politically correct these days:

Samus says hi!

'Seems like this Yahtzee guy is one of those "it's cool to be contrarian" types.'

I love this fucking argument.

Now, I consider myself a reviewer. I do tend to use a lot of comedy and irony to make things interesting but ultimately I endeavour to give my honest opinion. Most of the time I avoid reading other people's reviews of a game and ignore most of the pre-existing hype so that I can review a game at face value based solely on my impressions of it. I only mentioned the other reviews of Halo 3 in this case because they're impossible to avoid. Let me put this down in writing so it can come back to haunt me later: I would never mark down a game out of a personal bias or desire to be 'different'. I like to think I have more integrity than that.

I'm playing and enjoying the Halo 3 campaign in co-op mode, but I thought the review was pretty funny. It's hard to discuss Halo, though, because it seems as though everyone either thinks it's the greatest game ever or an overhyped pile of rubbish, and neither side will tolerate the slightest hint of disagreement. Those of us who think the game is average, pretty good, or somewhere in between those two wind up caught in the crossfire.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Now, I consider myself a reviewer. I do tend to use a lot of comedy and irony to make things interesting but ultimately I endeavour to give my honest opinion. Most of the time I avoid reading other people's reviews of a game and ignore most of the pre-existing hype so that I can review a game at face value based solely on my impressions of it. I only mentioned the other reviews of Halo 3 in this case because they're impossible to avoid. Let me put this down in writing so it can come back to haunt me later: I would never mark down a game out of a personal bias or desire to be 'different'. I like to think I have more integrity than that.

Yet you allowed the Escapist to pressure you into reviewing Peggle. Do I smell a sellout?

All kidding aside, I disagree with everyone who is saying that Yahtzee is taking his negative standpoint just to be different. Firstly, as he stated in the review, he doesn't think Halo 3 is bad; he just thinks it's not that exciting, and I agree. After finishing the campaign in about seven hours with a friend, I was left feeling disappointed. The graphics are nice, sure, but is that really what they were working on for three years? I'd rather have some deeper exploration of the game mythos rather than leaving that for the books and movie.

Secondly, just watch his past reviews. He applies praise and criticism, usually equally, to games. He criticized Psychonauts, even though he liked it (at this point I feel like I'm writing a biography). So stop looking for responses by accusing him of being some sort of anti-mainstream attention whore. He's just not jumping on the bandwagon. After all the hype dies down, Halo 3 will not be remembered as God's gift to gaming.

P.S. Is it just me or did the Escapist hit issue #117 just around the time Halo 3 was released?

Good review.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
'Seems like this Yahtzee guy is one of those "it's cool to be contrarian" types.'

I love this fucking argument.

Well, you disagreed with that persons point of view and therefor must only be doing it because you think you should disagree with people. Nevermind the 6 minute little movie describing why you don't think Halo 3 is God's gift to gamers.

Now, anybody have a towel? I need to wipe the shit off my nose.

... well, I normally do my very best to avoid subscribing to yet another forum/mailinglist/website... but you have gone just too far with writing stuff i love and i just have to thank you! I mean the first days i found your stuff I went all around preaching with elaborate theories like: "you know how i like pratchett? and also douglas adamns... but then he went and died on me...well... the universe sooooo likes me: it seeems he's reincarnated, and even better he likes games even more now and is writing about something i am very passionate about". Long story short: I'm one "games are art hippie" (even published a bit on this,... besides boring to death everybody i know) who is sooooo very happy that you're out there. Thank you!
Getting back to halo 3: I'm constantly looking for games which are worth experiencing, particularly games which focus more on the art part (locations, architecture, music, mood, story, dialogue...) than the gameplay part (shooting things, jumping over things may be a fun thing to many but for me most of the time they're jsut a required skill to get to delicious artwork)... and each time i considered playing a halo game it didn't seem to be anything special... then comes out this halo 3 thingie and it gets perfect scores... normally my intuition is pretty much always right so i'm surprised there's no people out there who see any problems with halo 3: so i made it my working hypothesis that maybe all these reviewers are grading halo3 not by the campaign but by the whole package, with multiplayer adding a lot... so i was very encouraged by your review: i feel exactly like you about multiplayer: it doesn't mean anything to me. I think just about any game can be a quite good experience if you're playing it with friends (flashbacks of this tiny oneway duke3d map)... but that doesn't make a game a artwork masterpiece.
Thank you for your greeat stuff! Thank you for all the work you put into creating, thinking up and illustrating your words with very smart visuals... it's like it was pages of hitchikers guide to the galaxy, the pages treating games written in a way that i loved... but maybe even better!

PS: if i may i would like to express a fear... because i like you so much: it seems to me like some streams of journalism, particularly when combined with your very inteligent style, can end up being overly cynical/critical. I can understand that because it pays... but I'd admire you even more if you dared to not lose the times where you are also positive and excited. I know people love critical but I think there's greatness in ballancing things out... giving rays of hope... so hoping for more reviews of stuff you actually admire and appreciate like you did with psychonauts

Yahtzee Croshaw:
'Seems like this Yahtzee guy is one of those "it's cool to be contrarian" types.'

I love this fucking argument.

Now, I consider myself a reviewer. I do tend to use a lot of comedy and irony to make things interesting but ultimately I endeavour to give my honest opinion. Most of the time I avoid reading other people's reviews of a game and ignore most of the pre-existing hype so that I can review a game at face value based solely on my impressions of it. I only mentioned the other reviews of Halo 3 in this case because they're impossible to avoid. Let me put this down in writing so it can come back to haunt me later: I would never mark down a game out of a personal bias or desire to be 'different'. I like to think I have more integrity than that.

Okay, I concede that you may not be a contrarian for the sake of it, but you are obviously biased. At least with the couple "reviews" I've seen. Using the term "console 'tard" is one clue. Your videos come off more like comical rants to stroke off the choir and inflame the rest. But that's OK man. You're very good at it. I honestly give kudos to your sense of humor and cleverness.

And your Halo 3 assessment is horribly incomplete. Multiplayer is a HUGE part of the game that you simply don't care about, so how can you give an honest opinion? If you don't give a flying shit about an important aspect of the game, why should I give a flying shit about your "review" other than its entertainment value?

Actually, despite the mass of comments flooding in, the ratio of senseless bashing to praise for Yahtzee is actually quite (surprisingly) low. Most critis have either valid arguments for themselves - which basically all boil down to "its a matter of taste". As Yahtzee has said, he is giving _his own opinion_ and if that differs from your experience thats fine and no reason to attack (or feel attacked). If you feel that someone is not getting fawning over the same stuff you see as a lifestyle then thats YOUR problem, not the other persons. Not even attempting argumentum ad hominem ("your a sellout therefore youre wrong") will change that. That and Yahtzee is pretty much always spot on.

I think that most of not-fanboys are ticked off at the hype because theyd really love to play a game that holds all the PR-promises without any downsides - which the final result just does not deliver. So yeah, every medal has two sides and hyping stuff tends to seperate people into more extreme opposites.

why should I give a flying shit about your "review" other than its entertainment value?

Actually, why do you? Im honestly curious, its not like he needs your approval or something.

yeah, at least he's got an interesting opinion.

niktu:

Okay, I concede that you may not be a contrarian for the sake of it, but you are obviously biased. At least with the couple "reviews" I've seen. Using the term "console 'tard" is one clue. Your videos come off more like comical rants to stroke off the choir and inflame the rest. But that's OK man. You're very good at it. I honestly give kudos to your sense of humor and cleverness.

And your Halo 3 assessment is horribly incomplete. Multiplayer is a HUGE part of the game that you simply don't care about, so how can you give an honest opinion? If you don't give a flying shit about an important aspect of the game, why should I give a flying shit about your "review" other than its entertainment value?

Actually, thats what makes his review unbias. The term 'console tard' is just a joke to imply that certain things have to be simplified to move a game from PC to console. There are a variety of reasons for this, but mostly its just control aspects. He's clearly a console tard himself since he almost exclusively reviews console games. (occasionally even ones he really likes)

However, back to the unbias. He doesn't give a flying shit about multiplayer. So, why should he review it as that would be horribly bias. If he's predisposed to not give a flying poo about mutliplayer aspects of a game then trying to review them isn't going to get you anything useful.

Bungie and MS decided that this game is suppose to have some story worthy of books and movies. This story supposedly exists within the single player aspect of the game, except it's nothing special. Some people may love it and that's fine, but face facts, the Halo books aren't going down in history with Tolkien, Douglas Adams or any other well know sci-fi or fantasy author out there. This is a review of the game itself not relying on other humans to make it fun, in which case he thinks its average.

Really, I could use a towel now...

The lack of incoherent ranting and trolling is rather disappointing. Would have loved to come to Yahtzee's defence with guns blazing, but there's really not much point to it. One thing though - there are enough 'run down the standard elements and give 2 points for this, 3 for that, and 4.1 for so-and-so for a total score of 9.1' reviews out there for us not to need another one. Yahtzee's are truely funny - but actually more valuable to me as well.

Hmm. Let me stirr up a little controversy after all - if this doesnt get out the haters, I really give up on you lot :)
Halo is like the Starwars of games.... Terrible story, horrible acting, ridiculous characters. There - I said it. Being a HUGE SciFi fan, I've never understood how that C-movie could have become such a hit, and same for Halo.

(runs for cover, now realising he maybe should have used a proxy to post this. Note to self: check car for IED's in the morning. )

Wow,niktu. Not only admitting you're stupid,but going out of your way to prove it. I tip my Zorro hat to you,sir. Truly,the mind boggles at how you can "get it" and "not get it" at the same time. But I'm bored so I'll take a wild stab at explaining it to you. The videos *are* comical rants and their only value is pretty much entertainment. That's why we come back here every week to hear it. It's funny and entertaining. His value as a reviewer is questionable,but his value as an entertainer isn't.

Honestly,if Yahtzee reviewed one of my favorite games,like Serious Sam,Ratchet & Clank,GTA,Star Wars Battlefront 2,WoW,or the new Sam & Max Season 1 games,the last thing I'd expect is for him to sit there and say these games are shining beacons of awesomeness. I'd expect him to point out the weird shit that goes on in them and probably call them stupid. It's what he does,man. And he does it in a way that's funny. So,while I'd probably disagree with him,I'd still watch the damn videos and I'd still think they were funny so long as he doesn't start half-assing it. I honestly don't see how you can't get that.

tsb3esg:

Hmm. Let me stirr up a little controversy after all - if this doesnt get out the haters, I really give up on you lot :)
Halo is like the Starwars of games.... Terrible story, horrible acting, ridiculous characters. There - I said it. Being a HUGE SciFi fan, I've never understood how that C-movie could have become such a hit, and same for Halo.

Well, maybe nostalgia, funny playing/watching sessions with friends, people not really fluent in fps/scifi history simply not caring/knowing enough to really feel, all that stuff that makes one forget about the gaping flaws and still enjoy it nonetheless? Also, maybe not being cought up in the hype surely helps alot to avoid disappointment. All those emotional personal reasons that no review can account for?

Im having fond memories of StarWars (although i know of its flaws and would never defend it as perfect) and i was disapointed by the halo games because even though promising it, none of the gave me blowjobs and free pudding! :-/ Therefore, your announced troll pretty much missed me.

I agree with you on Yahtzees review value though. His coherent opinion gives me a much better idea of the games than some disjunct category ratings.

I stand by what I said in my original post. I have every reason to hate Microsoft also, and, in fact, do. The strident and all-consumimg hype was from the Evil Empire, not Bungie. The 'Best Game Ever' is a very personal opinion or a myth--take your pick. My opinion would be either Deus Ex or Half-life, but that's just my opinion based on how much I enjoyed the games and their respective stories and characters, presentation, challenge, fun, etc.

The Halo series are a bunch of rip-snorting sci-fi shooters, and they are the best of that breed. I still find it sadly amusing how some people give the strong impression that they are somehow 'above' blasting aliens and space-zombies. Ok, just go back to Myst and live large then. And, yes, I thought Myst [and a couple of sequels] was a terrific game, but I play to be challenged and have some FUN. If I really want intellectual stimulation, I will read a book--low tech, but very portable and the user interface is wonderful.

I was a strictly PC gamer for over 15 years, but got burned out on having to shell out big bucks every couple of years for upgrades to CPUs and video cards. At least the Xbox [ i.e. TOASTER OVEN ] is very easy to program for, and developers really appreciate that. The fact that they keep melting down is somewhat disconcerting, but not unexpected seeing as how they are from Microsoft. That's why I have a two year warranty. I only have time and the inclination nowadays to play shooters and RPGs [ come on Mass Effect! ]. Too bad. But I have acquired a real life--boring and tedious, but necessary.

In conclusion, I'd like to thank most of the folks posting here, as this has been a long and pretty interesting thread, and well above the usual fanboy flaming match of insults and opaque spelling and syntax. I did find Yahtzee's little flash opinion piece very funny, and even hilarious in a few parts, despite the obvious smuggery and attempts to be politically correct in a 'let's-all-bash-success' kind of way. I try not to distain something just because it may be popular, even though I am disposed to do that sometimes.

Thanks for everyone's time and attention--gotta do some more co-op in Halo 3 on Legendary...

Halo 3 would've been much better had there been 'stonking great tits' a-la this fabulous figurine selling for thousands via eBay.

Pre-Halo 3 hype from Bungie: "Finish the fight!" "Save Earth!" "Master Chief will once and for all settle the score with the Covenant!"
Post-Halo 3 hype from gamers: "Wow, they didn't fix what wasn't broken with multiplayer! No one really cares about campaign anyway!"

You can understand why Yahtzee and I, who don't give a flying shit about Halo multiplayer, might be feeling a bit misled. Some of you may only have wanted Halo 3 for the multiplayer patches, but some of us wanted a thrilling and mindblowing conclusion to the campaign story we'd known for six years. You guys got what you wanted, and we didn't. Why does it piss you off so much that we aren't happy with what we got?

Halo 3's multiplayer is fine as far as console multiplayer goes. Forge and Theater are neat ideas, but certainly not unprecedented. It feels like a bait-and-switch when I point out that the singleplayer isn't anything special and all I hear from fanboys is "BUT THE MULTIPLAYER ROXXORS!!!111". Sigh.

niktu:

And I had no idea there was actually a FPS console vs. PC war. That's hilarious! You people need to get out more.

*claps*

Figured I'd finally register and post my 2 cents on this one.

I guess I fall somewhere in the middle on this one. I own all 3 Halo's, I have never read a Halo book, I never will. But the games are fun and Halo 3 is a blast co-op and multiplayer. With most of the games I've played recently, it comes down to who you play them with. Staying up all night and playing through Halo 3 on Legendary with 2 good friends of mine was nothing but a good time. I don't think any of us were paying attention to the plot, we were just trying to out-do one another with the meta scoring turned on.

But the things about reviews of anything.. movies, games.. whatever.. its all subject to what the reviewer likes. If a reviewer isn't a fan of FPS games in the first place, then chances are they won't like a FPS they review. As a fan of Halo, what do I think of this review? I think it's hilarious. Just like most of his reviews are. Do I care that he doesn't like it? Not at all.. obviously people have different tastes.. if you don't like Halo, who cares? Thats your choice.

But then I see the whole console vs pc argument come in to play all the time. Give it a rest already. I am a gamer.. I don't care what system a game is on, as long as its worth playing (in my opinion of course) I will play it. I find it hard to believe that so many people out there still have some kinda of weird "I only play PC games" or "I only play console games" thing going on with them. Me, I just play games.

Merlynn:
Wow,niktu. Not only admitting you're stupid,but going out of your way to prove it. I tip my Zorro hat to you,sir. Truly,the mind boggles at how you can "get it" and "not get it" at the same time. But I'm bored so I'll take a wild stab at explaining it to you. The videos *are* comical rants and their only value is pretty much entertainment. That's why we come back here every week to hear it. It's funny and entertaining. His value as a reviewer is questionable,but his value as an entertainer isn't.

Um, I'm responding to his claim that he made an "honest review," which it clearly isn't since he hasn't even played a large part of the game. But if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to call me stupid, go ahead. You're just proving yourself another coward who resorts to personal attacks because your argument is weak.

Well,he honestly said that A) he hasn't played Halo 1 or 2 and therefore B) is not a Halo fan boy and that he C) does not care for multiplayer. He was honest. He just doesn't agree with you. He,honestly,found the game to be average at best and not the shining golden "king of all games and then some". Not everyone likes the same damn things. However,you do have to admit,as much as you disagree and think highly of Halo 3,it's still a funny review and enjoyable to watch.

Frankly,I wish you'd just wake up and realize that just because you like something doesn't mean everyone else has to validate it and agree with you. You can like something because it appeals to you. I didn't much care for Psychonauts. It was nice to play through,but I wouldn't ask people to hurt themselves if they didn't buy it. I also wouldn't much care to play it again and it's nowhere near being a favorite. Yet,I still think the Psychonauts review is funny.

You can't spend your life trying to convince people that your *opinion* is correct. It's like trying to convince people one pitcher of water is wetter than another pitcher of water. I have my preferences when it comes to games and if Yahtzee chooses to make fun of them,guess what? I'll still be playing them. Cause *I* enjoy them. I know it's hard sometimes to respect a contrary opinion from someone you respect,but it happens. And honestly,in Yahtzee's case,you should've known he'd have picked on the weaknesses of the game cause that's where the funny comes from for his ramblings. And that's why I say you're stupid. Cause you expected something completely different from what he's been doing. Which is a pretty dumb thing to do.

gc_danny:
Did you read the consumer guide? Oh, and P.S. - not fawning over Halo doesn't make someone a blinkered Sony chauvinist.

I didn't mean to suggest it did. For the record, I really disliked Halo 2--too much auto aim, you lived and died by the radar, and the campaign was far worse than Halo 1 or 3--but I don't feel that means I'm automaticly a giant Sony fan because of it. I just played the beta and felt they fixed almost everything I felt was wrong about Halo 2. I also own a PS1 and PS2, so I'm hardly anti-Sony.

gc_danny:
Just because people don't play the game for the plot doesn't mean it isn't there - if Halo 3 had been released as an Unreal Tournament-Style multiplayer-only game, I wouldn't have critized it for having a mediocre single player game, but they didn't, so I did. Also, since they didn't scale up the difficulty, co-op is far too easy, even on Legendary.

You can scale the difficulity yourself with the skull system, which I believe is another thing you left out of your review. With just a few turned on, the game can be made much harder, and a challenge for even four players.

gc_danny:
Never before seen? Wasn't there a level builder in Timesplitters? And doesn't forge just let you change where various items spawn? Sure, it's a novelty putting a few tanks in High Ground, but the level design is solid enough that most tweaking done seems to be tweaking for tweaking's sake, rather than actual improvement. Sure, it's nice to see a hornet or tank show up in Multiplayer, but the maps really aren't big enough to support them, so what's the point?

As was already said, there's more to it than just moving the weapons around. People are already making very different syles of gameplay from using forge. You can change properties of all sorts of things: gravity, how much headshots are worth, how much kills are worth, how much vehicle kills are worth, how fast everyone moves. You can make the player who's in the lead move faster or slower, if you'd like.

How about a gametype where there's only one vehicle, but kills on a vehicle are worth 5 points? Everyone scrambles to fight for the vehicle, and everyone else tries to kill the guy on the vehicle. There. That's a gametype right there that could be a lot of fun, and really changes the gameplay. Not to mention in forge you can edit objects IN REAL TIME, with several other players, which adds all sorts of cool crap you can do. If you haven't already, I highly suggest watching this: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/25274.html

Yahtzee can ignore all this stuff, just ranting about the obvious flaws of the game, and that's fine. It's entertainment, and he's right to point out those flaws. Someone who's just a typical gamer can ignore all this stuff because they don't care about multiplayer, and that's fine. Not everyone cares for online play. But for a professional review to leave out the topics of both save films and forge, and focus so much on just the offline single player aspect, that's a rather large oversight.

I'm not trying to attack you here. I'd just like you to think about the content of your review and understand that you perhaps focused on the single player a little more than you should have for a game that most play for multiplayer.

I agree with Merlynn: Yahtzee was nothing if not honest and open about what parts of the game he was talking about and why. "I don't care about multiplayer, so I'm not going to talk about it" is perfectly honest. It's also useful, since if you're a multiplayer fan then you know he specifically isn't talking about the part of the game you're most interested in, and can evaluate the review accordingly.

Having said that, I typically listen to Zero Punctuation for comedy value after playing the game in question, so I'm not using them in my decisions, and I'm never terribly concerned when Yahtzee says something I don't agree with.

This same thing just happened on Ars Technica, where the initial Halo 3 review made clear right at the outset that it was about the single-player campaign, but lots of people who only looked at the title and the score (a 7 -- shocking!) complained in the discussion thread. That's one reason why I like how game reviews here at the Escapist don't have scores attached. Far too many people just look at the name of the game and the review score.

[Edited to clarify who I'm agreeing with.]

Eh, I can see where he's coming from. If you don't play the other halos, you'll be completely lost. Halo 3's plot absolutely requires that you know the story from the first games. Some people just don't "get" halo, just like some people get half life, and they're both great games. Then again, I've played halo since I was 15 and got the first one on the christmas of its release, not knowing what to expect, and being very surprised. The game is more than a mindless fragfest to me, it's an imaginative story and a pure gameplay experience. Some of my best gaming memories are playing through halo 1 co-op with my twin bro and 2.5 hour ctf bloodgulch games at lan parties with friends. Yahtzee just doesn't "get" halo like the fans do (and not the squeaky, hyperactive mongrels that skip cutscenes and think that halo is made for the multiplayer, they're not fans and they can diaf), but that's not his problem, escapist is calling the shots after all. The game is hyped to the moon and back and tainted by one of the worst multiplayer fan bases in gaming, so he's destined to hate it. Plus he's never played the other halos? Come on. If you're gonna force feed him the game and make him regurgitate a review at least give him the backstory! As much as I can't stand the phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game", it applies.

And all of the people shouting "sellout" and other bs, get real. Money makes the world go round, and if that means working for someone instead of working for yourself, so be it. He's managed to stay true so far. It's a shame that he has to justify himself to the fanboys.

Bottom line, get over it, get over it, and get over it.

Hehe, it's always entertaining to watch people act like they've just been personally offended because some guy doesn't share their opinion on something. How dare someone have an opinion that differs from your own!? Blasphemy! Do they not realize your opinion is right and theirs is inherently wrong!? Opinion is just that, opinion, not fact. Wasn't there some saying about opinions and assholes and how everyones got one?

Personally, I love Halo. I love every one of the games, I love the characters, I love the story. I stood in line with the weird sweaty neck-bearded nerds at midnight to get my copy of the game, and after I finished the campaign, I cranked up the difficulty to Legendary and started over again. To me, Halo 3 is like the greatest thing EVAR.

Yet, I loved Yahtzee's review of it as well. As was the case with the Bioshock review, another game I really liked. He points out many truths, and he does so in a very funny way.

Aaaanyhow, I was surprised Yahtzee didn't mention the second to last level of the campaign, when you rescue Cortana, that's one of the worst most horribly designed levels I've ever played in any game ever. It was just awful in every way.

Still, I love the game despite of it's flaws, just like Yahtzee loves Psychonauts in spite of it's various crappy parts (yes I played it and it angered me greatly on many occasions).

yahtzee, you fabulous british bastard, you are so the fucking man, its not even funny

This is likely my last post on this, as I seriously don't have the time to keep up. But I will say, kudos, as even the least intelligent posts in this whole thing are more intelligent to what I'm used to.

To reconfirm, I was mostly responding to the other commentators, not Yahtzee. I probably should've kept the pretentious stuff out. However, it should be noted that I don't play Halo for any multiplayer except co-op. I'll go online and enjoy a game once in a while, but for the most part it's not why I play.

tsb3esg:
Halo is like the Starwars of games.... Terrible story, horrible acting, ridiculous characters. There - I said it. Being a HUGE SciFi fan, I've never understood how that C-movie could have become such a hit, and same for Halo.

Ok, so it's not Dune or Starship Troopers or, ironically, Ringworld, despite the obvious influences. However, it's still pretty good. Maybe to you it isn't, but sometimes you need to define where it's your standards. For example, I enjoyed Live Free or Die Hard despite the film being anything but intellectually stimulating. Why? They promised me a car flying into a helicopter, and dammit I got it and then some.

Now, Halo may not be Bioshock, but it's above Doom at least. Once again, if you dig into the subtle stuff (and once again, disregard the Halo novels as they can go suck it), the story is actually pretty good. Halo 3, once more, screwed it all up. They never even answered the one question that has burned my mind the whole time: why did the Covenant, who invited all other alien races into their religion, give humans no chance? I figured the Prophet of Truth may be hiding something, and I'd explain further were it not for spoilers (it's still new, after all). It would be in the style of the series for Mercy and Regret to live up to their names while Truth would prove to be more ironic. However, no such thing happened. Halo 3 WAS straight forward, and it was...well, yeah. It was poor.

That doesn't mean the build up before it was, though.

Now, as far as top tier shooters go, such as Bioshock and Half-Life, well, I still love Halo's setting (I pretty much fell in love with the Covenant), but it really is Star Wars in comparison. But let's take Doom 3, Quake 4, Prey and Area 51 and see....oh my, it turns out Halo's story is actually head and shoulders above the rest. In fact, comparing the gameplay, it's got a lot of things that none of those games do, either.

I am not surprised Yahtzee thinks Halo is run of the mill. After all, he came late in the series, and Halo 3 is basically everything previous, only polished. This is why I also have NO problem with it ending. However, if you do more than compare it to the best of the best, but compare it to everything, it really is above average, even if slightly.

I think we can all agree that reviewers should all be fired, though. GameTrailers is the best for reviews so far, but if a game is seriously hyped up, like Halo 3 or Metroid, you can bet the score is going to be incredibly high no matter what.

As for the hype, though, I think people end up hating on Halo just because of it's popularity. I really do. I got caught in it with Final Fantasy, but at this point, the only one I really hate is FF8. I could complete the other ones enjoyably enough, meaning they were at least good. Just not deserving of hype. Now, what people should recognize with Halo is, because it was the best title in a console launch, it gained instant success. If it had launched later in the Xbox life, chances are fewer people would have played it. However, due to its position, EVERYONE played it. So many people even foolishly claim the only games Xbox has are Halo 1 and 2, completely disregarding titles like Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, Ninja Gaiden, Fable, Knights of the Old Republic or, and I'm sure I'm bound to get so much hatred for this, MechAssault 1 and 2 (no, they weren't as great as MechWarrior, but if they were supposed to be they would've had the same name; I like my arcade Mech style title).

People of all varieties play Halo, but the most significant is the mainstream market. These are some of the most die hard fans of Halo. These guys are either nice online, or are complete jerks. These are the people that haven't played nearly as many titles as we have or have heard of them. These are the people that play games with no expectations beyond what they grew up with on Atari or NES. However, some of them ignore things like the story, others pay attention. Whether you like the story or not, these simple folks may find Halo's story to be great. Now, isn't it better if they start to see this and hope for it to become standard?

Halo is hyped insanely simply because it's the mainstream fad. Once upon a time it was Mario and Zelda cereal, Mario and Zelda cartoons, Mario kids meal toys, and even Mario the movie. Given how much the gaming market has spread into mainstream culture, I say it's fine to see Halo getting the merchandising and hype it is. It's not like Resident Evil didn't have comics or novels, or Starcraft for that matter.

The Halo hype isn't for US. It's for the mainstream folks that'll only play Halo 3, Madden and maybe Lost Planet or something. Not for someone like me, who has recently played Halo 3, Blue Dragon, Stranglehold, Metroid Prime 3, Project Sylpheed, Brothers in Arms DS, Overlord, Bioshock, Shadowrun, Pokemon Pearl, twenty or so minutes of Two Worlds before wanting to microwave the disc, etc. etc....and you should see my GameFly list for the rest of the year...

I guess my ultimate point to the whole hype thing was that, I know it is easy to hate something over the hype. Just remember who the hype is intended for. If you think the game is average compared to the likes of more "quality" tastes, so be it, but for the average person it IS high quality.

Also, seriously, not all games CAN be nor SHOULD be art. I like artistic games as well (EarthBound probably being my favorite of them), but I like the simple stuff, too. If you expect nothing but innovation and art then there's too little in this world to enjoy and too much to despise.

Now that I've finished with that long ass ramble, I hope you guys all enjoy your discussions.

Yahtzee, good review, even if you were forced into doing it real quick over the weekend. I have only one request: start making them five or six minutes again. Three or four is just way too short. :P

For me Halo has a been a slightly above mediocre game that if had better controls would be a solid and fun title on the console because it lacks it the game waffes at around a 6(above average).

Halo 1 had great AI for tis time 2 so so I guess the AI for 3 is fcked but then most "fps" AI seems weak right now....

I had been hoping that polish/gameplay would have made a come back now I guess gaming will remain on this trendy hollywood slop....

I realize this is a bit off topic, but did anyone notice the picture of "finger quoting Margo" in Yahtzee's review? Could this comedic genious also be a Comics Curmudgeon fan?

That is so damn true... What's up with this halo-phenomenon thing?!? For Pete's sake - Half Life 2 seems much better to me! Really have to be a 15 year old over-experimenting with caffeine to enjoy this!

Ahahahahah Yahtzee that was just brain meltingly brilliant :D

Let's be honest here. If you were looking to Halo 3 to be the next paragon of gaming, an adventure that would make you question your current beliefs and morals, an act that would bring you to tears, you were either fooled by their marketing or you're a fanboy.
And if you did cry, you're a little girl.
This game was never designed to be the best thing out there. It was designed to be entertaining to 70%-80% of their target audience. Whether or not they succeeded is debatable. Looking at these posts, the group gathered here seems a bit more discerning than a Halo 3 fansite. Bungie could have taken a dump in a box, and they still would have sold millions of copies.
As for the story: yes, it is confusing to someone who doesn't know the backstory. Hell, it could be confusing to someone who played the previous Halo games as well. Is it Bungie's fault for not explaining what happened better? Yes. Blame has to lay somewhere. They had to know they would get thousands of new people who had never played the previous games. They just didn't care.
As for the AI: AI in games has always sucked. If you're expecting different, stop it. Computers may have gotten faster but that does not mean they've gotten better or the programs have gotten smarter.
Bungie knew where their gaming core lay: in multiplayer. They realized it after the first Halo was released. That's why Halo 2 had such an unsatisfactory ending. They didn't care about the story anymore. Halo did have a few twists and surprizes. But after the revelation of the Flood, what was left to surprize people with? The only thing left would be the action. And that people could get from any random FPS.
Halo 3 is entertaining. Not great. Not the best. Just the best selling.

I'm going to chill the atmosphere:

STONKING GREAT TITS.

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