145: It's A Yaoi Thing

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Good read, thank you. Nothing much I didn't know, but entertaining none the less. I thought about saying something but I think enough has already been said, so I'll just leave it at a "whoo, gay porn!" and be done.

Surggical_Scar:
Maybe it's just me, being rather Au-Fait with Yaoi and the like, but aside from being a rough guide to this subgenre, was there anything else you were trying to get across?

A good read, I'll admit, but not a whole lot else.

I have to agree with this. Perhaps it's just that the article was written for people who have never heard of yaoi/BL? I would have liked to see a bit more Japanese cultural context as well, such as the fact that straight rock stars in Japan cross-dress and their straight female fans love it and it is not considered "gay", or that the Japanese standard of beauty is in itself rather androgynous.

There's also a notable tendency in commercially produced yaoi for the characters to NOT identify as gay, they are just two guys who happened to fall in love with someone of the same sex, or if they have a history of same-sex affairs, will stoutly insist they are NOT gay, they are BI! Self-identified gay characters are actually pretty rare in yaoi and are usually secondary characters who give love/sex advice to the main characters.

GloatingSwine:
All shippers do that, no matter the particular combination of genders they have alighted upon. I still think the worst are the Harry/Hermione crowd in the Potter fandom, as they are known to exclaim that the author got it wrong when their chosen ship didn't set sail.

Please, let's not go to the Harry Potter fanfic. That thing is a monster on its own. No, seriously. At last count, the fanfic filebase is nearly at 400,000.

- A procrastinator

I'm a huge fan of yaoi and have been for over two years now but this was still a fascinating read and a great insight to the genre I love. Many things I didn't know or hadn't considered ^_^ Also, the response is fascinating and mature.

I stumbled upon yaoi on the internet and though there are certain genres I personally dislike (shota with really young boys...), I don't find anything wrong with yaoi: as it's been said its like guys enjoying lesbian porn if they want. As long as people don't take it too seriously though, as let's face it...it's one huge (smexy) fantasy :P

Oh, and under grand hotel is disgusting. I found the story really weak and even the smut wasn't so good. If you're interested in yaoi try Yamane Ayano first. Viewfinder is excellent, smutty but beautiful . Also crimson spell mixes the supernatural and yaoi. I've read so much though that no others come to mind!! There is alot of Yaoi around though, and it really does fit into sub genres and different types and levels of smutty-ness. :D

Sorry, I kinda forgot about this conversation. I'm back, though!

My problem isn't so much with by-women-for-women gay fiction, but rather a complete lack of published material targeted for men. And it's not just that people haven't made an effort, I think such material has a certain stigma around it. I definitely think it's more appropriate for a female to read gay fiction than for a male to do so, and that really rubs me the wrong way, since homosexuality is more of a part of my life than a female reader's life. It seems like as far as gay fiction goes, this facet of my life is merely there for the entertainment of women-- because that's all that's out there. I also have a problem with how fangirls tend to take yaoi. I am really sick of feminine comments directed towards me as a gay man by women who are under some delusion that gay guys are girly. Yaoi, regardless of its Japanese origins, is perpetuating these stereotypes.

I think it's more 'acceptable' because it's source is from Japan. If it was an introduction to furry, everyone would be retching :D

SykoSilver:

My problem isn't so much with by-women-for-women gay fiction, but rather a complete lack of published material targeted for men. And it's not just that people haven't made an effort, I think such material has a certain stigma around it. I definitely think it's more appropriate for a female to read gay fiction than for a male to do so, and that really rubs me the wrong way, since homosexuality is more of a part of my life than a female reader's life. It seems like as far as gay fiction goes, this facet of my life is merely there for the entertainment of women-- because that's all that's out there. I also have a problem with how fangirls tend to take yaoi. I am really sick of feminine comments directed towards me as a gay man by women who are under some delusion that gay guys are girly. Yaoi, regardless of its Japanese origins, is perpetuating these stereotypes.

Same for straight men, dude, any source of erotic entertainment directed at men, weither video, animation, drawings, or comics are perverted or wrong or makes one a loser. On the flipside, women who look for similar entertainment, are portrayed as strong, independant or sexualy liberated. As for yaoi, its the same lovely double standard, if you read it, you're weird, if they read it, thats perfectly fine and normal.

I read some and there good I know a girl who is INSANE about yaoi. She talks about it all the time at the lunch table and all of my guy friends freck out. Its fun to watch them freck out. Me, hananh, and Deanna make it wrorse.

Excellent article I must say. To be honest though I'd never even heard of yaoi until I read this. That said I'm still trying to get my head around the different manga genres as it is. No chance of local booksellers organising manga as they do their other books. :(

Good read. Any chance of an article about yuri too, since this one didn't talk about it? I'm enjoying the good discussion too! :)

Sentient Muffin:
This is interesting and all, but the real question is: why would women start to find fascination in this only in Yoai? Their aren't a lot of girls out there that like to see REAL men do it. Or maybe...I should have a survey at my college...:)

Oooooh I so beg to differ. Most of the people who I know who watched Queer as Folk when it was on were women, and I would go as far as saying QAF has a bigger female following than gay men. My own best friend (23 year old chick) had, at one time, a bigger gay porn collection than myself.

I just realized that the bears in F3 are called "Yaoi Gui", is that supposed ot mean they have gay animated sex?

I had a girl trying to convert me to read Yaoi with her, I was just disgusted honestly. Call me hypocrite, but I love lesbians. Observing-wise of course, but gay men, nawh. Or boys even.

Interesting read.

SykoSilver:

General Ma Chao:
I'm not surprised really. Men like to look at attractive women wearing and doing things they find hot. It's only logical women would like the same thing. Overall, good article.

Generalizing much?

As a homosexual male I'm always severely disappointed to pick up a piece of gay fiction only to discover that it's geared towards women. Not all men like lesbians-- and gay men such as myself don't like the feminine bishounen. Where are the choices for those of us who want a more realistic spin on gay fiction, with masculine characters?

There is its called bara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bara_%28genre%29

The thing American otaku have a problem learning is that shounenai is an outdated term & that BL (the term the Japanese use) is actually a little different. Shounenai was popular in the 70s & does out in the 80s. It involved exquisitely effeminate men, over-the-top angst, the most bizarre comedy, & almost always ended in tragedy. Three excellent examples are "Kaze to Ki no Uta," "Patalliro," & "Ibu no Musukotachi.

Patallito & Eroica Yori Ai wo Komette are two originally shounenai titles that are both still ongoing today & have actually dropped the shounenai. Patalliro is now pretty much just a balls to the wall comedy about a deranged midget prince & Eroica is now a Cold War dramedy between a brokenhearted thief & a bitchy NATO agent. It's not going to end like Koi Suru Boukun; Klaus isn't a sexually repressed self-hating closet gay like Souichi; he's asexual.

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