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Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 14 Apr 2008    | |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 999 Joined: 22 Aug 2006     | Any media in its original language > subtitles > dubbing. Dubbing things well is incredibly difficult, and on average, isn't done very well. At least with subtitles, you still get the emotional cues in the voices of the original players, which is often lost in a dub. And if you're lucky enough to speak the language, then fantastic. As per the people looking down on you for not knowing the language? Definitely jerks. There are a lot of languages, and few people have the time to learn a few. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2486 Joined: 29 Nov 2007     | I have a friend who acts as a translator for a clothing firm over in Japan. Whenever I ask her about anime she says that being able to follow those cartoons is incredibly difficult even for someone fluent. Apparently, even by Japanese standards those cartoons are talking at Mach 10. Something about the budgets I guess. Just that much more impressive to someone who wants to go that far in learning the language. |
Paperboy Posts: 45 Joined: 13 Nov 2007  | It's all well and good until you major in it. Then you have to deal with the otaku constantly disrupting class sessions with discussions about their favorite animu and telling exchange students about how Sasuke is totemo kawaii, making the rest of the class all look like nerds who just got in..because they wanted to watch anime. Luckily, most of them realize it's not as easy as they thought it would be and drop out in the first years. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3204 Joined: 10 Nov 2007  |
Really, I find it quite the opposite. Quite a lot of anime is fairly clearly enunciated. They're talking in ScriptSpeak, like everyone on telly, no hesitation, no umming and ahhing and then falling over yourself to get what you wanted to say out. I only learned Japanese for a year, and I find that I can understand far more ScriptSpeak Japanese than I can, say, understand someone being interviewed in Japanese. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1566 Joined: 5 Dec 2007    | I have meet my share of Otaku's and fled in terror. I doubt i ever will be able to understand Japanese culture or why so many western people are obsessed by it. Isent modern Japanese culture sort of about copying western society? Besides, German and Russian are possibly the coolest languages out there. *throws Dovstoevsky book at your head* Anyway, good article. |
Paperboy Posts: 45 Joined: 13 Nov 2007 |
Anime has little to nothing to do with Japanese culture. That's as silly as saying American culture is summed up in Ducktales. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1419 Joined: 2 Mar 2008   |
HA! That's funny. Anyway, that was a great article, but it reminded me why I can't learn Japanese (I'm horrible with language. My dad has been trying to teach me Greeksince I was 3. Im 19 now. I know about 3 words)... Arrogant nerds... I wish we had those at my school. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1566 Joined: 5 Dec 2007 |
Alpha, Omega, Beta... Damn |
BANNED  Posts: 10 Joined: 14 Apr 2008   | why do we want to go to Japan, why??? I mean, their women get ugly from ageing faster than ours, their men are work-a-holics, a trait that is legal only when you're a pornstar or game developer/reviewer/somtehing, they have this thing for schoolgirls, flashing colours, inserting english words, having pointy haired characters. It scares the living poop outa me. Or creeps the said poop. Anyway, i agree to russian and german being the coolest languages, because they're both impressive when shouting at people and German is good for making up military equipment names. Judenkampfwagen mit der Kartoffeln Kannone. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 116 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 | "It was hard to believe that a repressed society could produce such imaginative work." |
Muckraker  Posts: 290 Joined: 12 Sep 2007    |
Wow I never thought about it that way. Great article all the way |
Beat Writer  Posts: 186 Joined: 2 Jan 2008    |
Speaking as one of those former Japanophiles, it's a simple case of "the grass is greener on the other side of the bridge." When you're a teen and your more popular peers reject you, you will turn to something else. These guys chose anime and Japan by extension. It's new and different and makes them feel like part of a group. It's the same reason why people may go punk, goth, or emo. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 3 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 | It's weird how people can become obsessed with Japan, While historically, japan is one of the most xenophobic of the first world countries |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 358 Joined: 9 Nov 2007    | Apart from the anime, I think Japan is interesting because of some bonds it has with the culture of the country I live in (holland); they haave been trade partners for a very long time. While people here are totally going manga, the japanese have built a village with windmills and wooden shoes. I do think about learning Japanese some days, but not just for the manga bit. I just love the sound of that language, it's quite expressive. I like Russian and French for the same reason (though I can't understand either of them) as for the fanboys who say that they love Japan; I have known a couple of them. It just meant they liked the Japanese pop culture. When it comes to things such as everyday culture, history, etc, they knew incredibly...little. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 560 Joined: 2 Feb 2008 | I like anime for the culture and the stories, but generally watch it dubbed if the voice actors are good or subbed if not. But then, I loved Okami for the stories and culture, so it's all about what I can learn, not the entertainment. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 116 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
People have desires, dreams, fantasies: if they can't have any outlet in real life, the only way to express and realize them is in fictional form, I guess. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 23 Feb 2008 | Japan rules, and anime is a huge part of the Japanese history, but not thair culture. I'm a fullblown hotukus and I feel no shame or drive in hiding it. |
Beat Writer Posts: 186 Joined: 2 Jan 2008 |
That's part of its allure. It makes it look mysterious. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 6 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 | Personally, I can't stand American and European "otaku" for three reasons. 1. They act like retards. 2. A lot of them claim to love anime and Japan, but then ignore most of the other stuff coming out of Japan and aren't even knowledgeable on anything that came out before 1996 (a good way to tell these people apart from the ones who know what they're talking about, if they think Naruto or Bleach are really good then they haven't seen anything older). 3. If I see any of that modern generic "moe" look one more time I am going to kill someone (this holds true for anime in general, not just the fans). |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2381 Joined: 6 Mar 2008  | Japanese is worth learning for the literature alone. Wicked video games and the occasional decent anime series (let's be honest - most of it is awful) are just nice bonuses. |
Paperboy  Posts: 33 Joined: 7 Apr 2008 |
Umm, I think Ducktales has a lot to do with American culture. As anime relates strongly to Japanese culture. How exactly do you separate art from culture? What do you know about Japanese culture to make such a statement to begin with? Have you ever even watched anime? Or any American cartoons? Maybe they don't seem like it on the surface (um, they kinda do, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here), but how else would art turn out the way it does without any cultural references? What do they eat in American cartoons? How do they act? It's a reflection of American culture. How about what they eat in anime? How they act? It's all extraordinarily Japanese. So, saying cartoons/anime have nothing to do with the cultures that create them is not just silly but flat out wrong. |
Beat Writer Posts: 186 Joined: 2 Jan 2008 |
All forms of art and entertainment may give you no more than a brief glance into their culture. Others may try to delve deeper. You have to analyze it all if you want to get a picture of the culture it came from. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 3 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 |
That's even stranger. I mean, you're saying that they like it more because the japanese don't like them very much, or are prejudiced against them. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3664 Joined: 21 Jan 2008   |
Yep, that's pretty much it. It's human nature to want what you can't have; to lust after the unattainable. Even if the destination sucks, it's all about the journey, so to speak. Anyhoo, I like some things that come out of Japan; they've got some good anime/manga, and some very interesting games. But, that's where it ends. Those guys who obsess 'bout Japan, kinda freak me out. One last thing: What does 'nihon' mean? I've heard it, but I really can't remember. - A procrastinator |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1601 Joined: 28 Nov 2007   | (Blinks Again) Okay I'm a fan of all forms of nerd-media including Anime and Video Games. I am however not a Japanaphille. I simply am too well grounded in reality for that. Simply put Japan falls under the catagory of a nation crawling out of "Neo-Barbarism". The Neo bit coming from science fiction and having to do with the fact that civilization is determined in degrees by the most enlightened and progressive nation on the planet. When you fall far enough below that level in so many ways your a Barbarian. However it's important to distinguish because many people tend to always assume that Barbarism means little or no civilization or technology. One of the things that makes the modern world such a pain to deal with, especially morally, is that the modern equivilents of the Huns and Mongels and such might have guns, schools, electricity, planes, boars, and all the other trappings that represents "civilization" until you start looking at it in degrees. Despite that lead in, I'm not entirely going to hate on Japan here. For all the problems with the USA, though consider that this is still a nation grounded in racism (ethnic/national purity), and which less than 100 years ago were trying to conquer the world, loading their brainwashed children into flying bombs, and launching them into ships. They were only deconditioned enough to survive by using weapons of mass destruction to demonstrate that there would be no heroic last stand if they didn't surrender in a losing war, there would just be ignoble death. Given that people can live 75-80 years understand that this didn't even occur 2 full societal generations ago. For a society to really change it takes at least 4-10 societal generations. Usually everyone has to be dead who even knew someone that was part of the original culture, and for those teachings to die out. I point this out because for every cool thing you see coming from Japan, there is something really twisted and messed up it seems. Not to mention a large degree of militant nationalism, racism, resistance to progress, and other factors. All of which can apply to a lesser extent to other nations like the US, but in a differant situation. It should be noted that a lot of their science fiction and fantasy (through anime, video games, etc...) basically came from the USA. It's just produced initially with less watchdog groups and hoops to jump through (at the moment) than American productions. This is one of the big reasons why there is a cross-cultural appeal to a lot of this. It's our own stuff. It should also be noted that both Samurai and Ninjas as the exist in Japanese pop culture are pretty much American creations through RPGs and such. Ninjas for example were kind of disliked in Japan for historical reasons, however Americans got a hold of the idea of these Shadow Warriors, changed it around beyond recognition, and developed this sort of anti-hero motif. Japan for example then took the idea and figured "oh it's kind of cool like that" so instead of being an unpopular idea, you have all these Ninja-girls and everything jumping all over the place. Again it appeals to Americans because we sort of created the pop culture version, and then they took it and used it. The same can be applied to say Samurai to a lesser extent. The Samurai aristocricy was overthrown, but then we sort of re-envisioned it along the lines of European Knights from times past, and they kind of retroactively ran with it. Now some people are probably freaking out here because what I'm saying doesn't go with the vibe a lot of Japanaphilles. The bottom line I'm making here is don't confuse the pop culture with the people themselves, and also don't misunderstand where a lot of it comes from. Anime, JRPGs, etc... and their Western counterparts are heavily inbred. Also understand that for every decent sci-fi story, you've got one that can't resist putting in some dude who took a Katana to his own eyes because he couldn't stand to see Things like "Lodoss Wars" were heavily influanced by DND, and games like the original "Wizardry" and such heavily influanced the direction Japanese gaming took. Also, understand that it appears a lot of the stuff Japan makes doesn't make it to the US because of US Bashing. For example it seemed to be a big deal that us "round eyes" didn't get "Final Fantasy X: Final Mission" and thus the story of that game was not completed. Keeping a lot of stuff as "Japan Only" is a big deal down there, and I've run accross a few referances to fans down there feeling that an American release cheapens a product. I guess I'm rambling borderline incoherantly about Japan, because the point of this article seems to be "At first I wasn't a Japanaphille, but now I am one and it roc |
Konnichi wa, Nihon!
"These guys wanted to learn Japanese in order to become a part of the otaku elite. They would probably leave class, put on costumes and head to an anime convention. They would walk around quoting lines from their favorite cartoons in Japanese, saying, 'I watched the original without subtitles' as they looked down their nose at those of us who watched the dubbed version. I wanted no part of this nerd caste system."
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