Zero Punctuation: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 39 NEXT
 

This review did two things, which the Halo 3 one also did:

1. Rambling fanboys who HATE [said franchise] will get in here and say the the review is spot on.
2. Rambling fanboys who LOVE [said franchise] will get in here and punch the first guys in the face.

I signed up just to request, Ben, that you stop taking requests and get back to making those reviews that are actually hilariously funny.

"Incomprehensible clusterfucks" comes pretty close to what I first thought upon trying to play Super Smash Bros: Melee on my boyfriend's Gamecube. And I like fighting games.

"Fuck Solid Snake, they should let you unlock Bill Murray."

Funniest one-liner in Zero Punctuation yet.

I liked the review, mainly because I don't really care for the series. Nothing against the series or its fans, of course, but I just get bored while playing it. Good job Yahtzee. :)

If we want to be really~ mean, we should ask Yahtzee to review Dark Sector.

Gutterpunk:

Indigo_Dingo:

1. the whole point is its meant to be chaotic. It shakes up the usual fighting genre by making you aware of your surrounding, instead of it just being something pretty for you to ignore while you mash A.

The original SSB did that. Yaztee's qualm is that this version doesn't do it better or bring anything new to the table. And he is right... heck, the game is even more fun with a Gamecube controller, if thats not an indication of rehashing old ideas.

What do you mean by that? For one thing, the introduction of items that will instantly turn the tide in a fight is going to make it a whole new game.

Gutterpunk:

Indigo_Dingo:

2. If you've ever seen someone playing Street Fighter, you will know that every fighter ever eventually boils down to mash random buttons. What? Did you want them to come out with the Wii punching bag, so your own strength is added to the characters?

See, right there your ignorance is showing. Look at the history of Street Fighter, with all the tweak and version available for the different incarnation of the game just because Capcom felt that some counter were not timed correctly or some combo didn't fit. I'm not a SF fanboy , but saying that there is no more technique in SF than in SSBB is one stupid assertion.

I'm not talking about just street fighter here. Most fighter games will ussually have the mash buttons strategy until you get to a certain level of skill. There are plenty of techniques that work in SSBB, but to judge by Yahtzee's attitude, he has not ever played any of the previous ones, and thus has no idea what they are, which begs the question as to why he can complain.

Gutterpunk:

Indigo_Dingo:

3. There's the lazy-ass solution for unlocking characters too. It involves turning the game on, starting a no-limits brawl then going to bed. Plus, you can save all of your character info to your controller and bring it to a mates place.

You are criticizing his opinion for the exact same reason that he has that opinion. If the coder made it so easy to unlock shit, why not just unlock it from the start? That was the point of his comment, but you missed it completely.

Cause if Snake and Sonic were unlocked from the start, hardly anyone would ever play Dedede or Lucas.That and the feeling of accomplishment people get for doing it the right way.

Gutterpunk:

Indigo_Dingo:

4. The game even takes time out of its awesome content to tell you more about the characters, in case the plot has thrown you - they are called the trophies.

Once again that wasn't his point. He was saying that having popular characters on which you base a large part of your marketing money and then locking them is a ridiculous concept. I'm sure that Yatzee knows wtf is Mother 3, but the non-SSBM fanboy friends he played with didn't, and for a party game thats rather sad.

Yes, maybe some of his friends didn't know who Marth was. But a helluva lot of people did, and really wanted him back in. Thats the point. People want to see their favourite characters in, thats the point, it adds to the great premise of this game.

Titanium Dragon:
However, if you're going to address a game from a design standpoint you also have to look for what it hit, and he often misses things which games DO hit. I think a large part of the popularity of SSB and Halo is their highly intuitive interfaces; you can pick up a controller and within 10 minutes you know what you do to do what, with no instruction manual necessary. In fact, I have always seen those as the greatest strengths of those series and why they are so popular, and I think on a deep level that IS why they're more popular than the standard fighting games/FPS games.

True, you can pick up a controller and know how to play. And then someone plays with Pikachu, making his little thunders from under your feet, and suddenly it becomes a one man show. Thats not good design IMHO. The characters are vastly unbalanced, and there is no way to know that unless you played a lot. Being able to pick up controls in 10 minutes is inconsequent.

Titanium Dragon:

Moreover, SSBB (and its predecessors) have this nice property where it is difficult to become "that guy" accidentally; simply playing the single player will make you a bit better, but not so much better that you constantly crush your friends who only play it on weekends. What makes you better at SSB games is "gainful practice", which mostly constists of either A) playing against people better than you and really a lot of B) experimenting with what works and doesn't, then learning how to do what does work perfectly. It takes actual effort to become that guy, and that is another strength of the game - if playing it for ten hours in solo mode to unlock Sonic is necessary, then at least once you unlock Sonic you and your friends should still be able to play on relatively equal footing, and this game succeeds at that.

Your "gainful practice" works in a context where you can actually play with new people. In Halo, you fire up XBL and you have a ton of player to learn from. In SSBM, you will probably end up playing the same bunch of friends over and over again, because the wifi part sucks.

But once again, the unbalance of the game throws all of that out of the window. You can spend the rest of your lifetime unlocking Sonic, but in the end Kirby will kick your ass.

And I'm not sure how you can claim that anyone can learn to play the game and then praise how even the most casual player amongst your friends have a chance to beat you. Why would anyone spend any time trying to get better? Providing trophies as sole reward to play a game is not a good design decision. (Sure "fun" is a reward too, but fun is found in many games these days)

Titanium Dragon:

Saying such games are random button mashers is simply wrong - they aren't. But SSB is meant to be a party game, which means that among random people what you do should be fairly obvious, intuitive, and shouldn't bother everyone else, and no obvious strategy should clearly overshadow all others at the casual level that 99% of people who play SSB play it at and just because you've happened to play it twice as much as the next guy shouldn't make it so that you can't play it with them.

Being a party game doesn't mean that we can excuse it's flaws. Wario Ware : Smooth Move and Mario Party completely blew it on the Wii (one with a lack of proper competition, and the other with lengthy animations for everything you do in the damn game). IMHO SSBM blew it too as a party game, and there is way better fighting game out there. So whats left?

SSBM is only fun because of the novelty of using known characters to beat the crap out of each other. I don't see any other reasons to play it personally. The game doesn't bring anything new to the table compared to the original (which I played quite a bit).

indigo Dingo:
Yes, maybe some of his friends didn't know who Marth was. But a helluva lot of people did, and really wanted him back in. Thats the point. People want to see their favourite characters in, thats the point, it adds to the great premise of this game.

Yes but those people are the one who will willingly play to unlock Marth and whatever obscur characters. The mainstream player who just come to your place for an evening of (clean) fun on a party game don't care about this.

Why not make everyone happy and lock the one that they crave?

I love Brawl. Really, I do. I have a bunch of friends who played a lot of melee, so we really like the game. That being said, Yahtzee is 100% right about EVERYTHING he said about Brawl. The game is flawed to a disturbingly extreme point. For about the millionth fucking time, Nintendo has shown that they really have no idea what makes their games fun. Case in point, the whole fucking subspace emissary. They just pour lots of money and time into titles and hope people will still buy it (which they will).

To be honest, I think this is one of Yahtzee's worst reviews. It starts out with scathing hatred and pretty much continues in the same line for a good four minutes. It gets rather boring, honestly. What's worse is that most of the ranting is about fanboys in general, there's only one or two legitimate complaints about the game itself.

One of the things I hate about game reviews is when it's obvious someone played the game not to see if it's good or not, but to confirm their preconcieved notions about the game. While most of Yahtzee's reviews avoid this problem, the SSBB review is pretty much a textbook example of what I'm talking about. If you go in to a game convinced it's going to be bad, or if you only review it because you feel that you have to, guess what - you're not going to suddenly find that it's good. I'm not trying to preach how game reviewers should do their job, but something like this seems very unprofessional (although ZP isn't exactly a professional review... but meh).

I was waiting for someone to kick this game up the arse, everyone seems to love it so much

-Marth is from fire emblem and kicks ass
- Try 1 on 1 matches. Less button mashing more strategy. More zoomed in and better visual for combat. Using a gamecube controller helps a lot.
- All characters all able to be unlocked through multiplayer.
www.avianfang.blogspot.com

Fly on.Fly free,

Avian Fang

True, you can pick up a controller and know how to play. And then someone plays with Pikachu, making his little thunders from under your feet, and suddenly it becomes a one man show. Thats not good design IMHO. The characters are vastly unbalanced, and there is no way to know that unless you played a lot. Being able to pick up controls in 10 minutes is inconsequent.

The characters are not vastly unbalanced they are amazingly balanced. Pikachu does his annoying thunder thing then just fire long range, or use a washdash do get behind the little bugger. If you r using character with counter then let him attack counter and send him on his merry way.

billy-j:
well done yahtzee, you've done what had to be done, i've never seen smash bros as anything more than a (mildly fun) random button mashing game

Snake AND Sonic are only unlockables! god damn it Nintendo maybe i'll just stick to SSBM

oh and snake would never slit a throat in this game anyway, it's nintendo isn't it?

Actually his grab is any direction is a neck break LOL, i do like SSB, but still a funny review

It is supposed to look like that(like a bad review). He sounded bored from the first line because he did not want to review it. He was told to review it. The game blew so the all that Yahtzee did was to keep in tone with the game. I believe it was preety nice. But show a little mercy when Tekken 6 is released(and if you choose to review it of course).

I didn't really find this review funny. It kinda disappointed me, actually. Not just because I actually like Brawl, either. I'm not the kind of person to go "OMG HOW DO U NOT LIEK THIS GAME LOL! ITS TEH AWESOME!" whenever someone tells me a game I like sucks. I see all of his points, but they don't really bother me because I actually like hacky-slashy-button-mash-o-thons. Mostly because that means I can actually beat my friends at them.

Anyway, the review was less of a review and more of a rant. It was four minutes of "STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO REVIEW YOU IDIOT FANBOYS." There were almost zero funny lines in it, which is just about the only reason I watch these reviews. I don't blame Yahtzee though. I would hate to review a game I had no interest in.

Also, this makes the first game Yahtzee has reviewed that I actually own. Sad, isn't it?
Edit: I forgot about the Super Paper Mario review. I have that one too.
... yes, the only console I own is a Wii. The PS3 is fucking expensive and there aren't any games for the 360 I really want.

Gutterpunk:
SSBM is only fun because of the novelty of using known characters to beat the crap out of each other. I don't see any other reasons to play it personally. The game doesn't bring anything new to the table compared to the original (which I played quite a bit).

Well, that's just it- Brawl brought a lot of new features to the table, most of which were mediocre (like WiFi and Stage Creator). I just wish Yahtzee put some time looking at these other features, which would have been easy fodder to make fun of, instead of the core gameplay, which is actually quite solid. There's just a lot of missed content in this review, which, even though all the points made were spot-on, made the whole review look more like a rant of the fighting genre of games than an in-depth look at SSBB.

Don't cry Yathzee, I think you are a real reviewer.

I agree with the review. I disagree with many of the others who have commented agreeing with the review.

Awkward Turtle:
I didn't really find this review funny. It kinda disappointed me, actually. Not just because I actually like Brawl, either. I'm not the kind of person to go "OMG HOW DO U NOT LIEK THIS GAME LOL! ITS TEH AWESOME!" whenever someone tells me a game I like sucks. I see all of his points, but they don't really bother me because I actually like hacky-slashy-button-mash-o-thons. Mostly because that means I can actually beat my friends at them.

Anyway, the review was less of a review and more of a rant. It was three minutes of "STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO REVIEW YOU IDIOT FANBOYS." There were almost zero funny lines in it, which is just about the only reason I watch these reviews. I don't blame Yahtzee though. I would hate to review a game I had no interest in.

Also, this makes the first game Yahtzee has reviewed that I actually own. Sad, isn't it?

yes quite sad

True, you can pick up a controller and know how to play. And then someone plays with Pikachu, making his little thunders from under your feet, and suddenly it becomes a one man show. Thats not good design IMHO. The characters are vastly unbalanced, and there is no way to know that unless you played a lot. Being able to pick up controls in 10 minutes is inconsequent.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. Pikachu the best character? That's a new one. The fact that not a single other person I know who plays the game has said that says this is what is known as "idiosynchrantic preference", and moreover, it is most likely out and out wrong - when you're the only person who claims it, it is quite likely you have no idea what you're talking about.

The characters are unbalanced? Probably. But probably not noticably at low-level play. I've heard people call Bowswer (one of the WORST characters in SSBM) brokenly good and, frankly, it says a lot more about the people who are playing not having a clue than anything else.

Claiming that Pikachu is the best simply shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Your "gainful practice" works in a context where you can actually play with new people. In Halo, you fire up XBL and you have a ton of player to learn from. In SSBM, you will probably end up playing the same bunch of friends over and over again, because the wifi part sucks.

Right, which means that, chances are, you're never going to get massively better than your friends unless you try to do so.

But once again, the unbalance of the game throws all of that out of the window. You can spend the rest of your lifetime unlocking Sonic, but in the end Kirby will kick your ass.

There aren't tier lists yet from actual competant players, so your claims of "X is better than Y" are simply opinions, and completley unverifiable and most likely worthless ones at that, knowing SSB players.

And I'm not sure how you can claim that anyone can learn to play the game and then praise how even the most casual player amongst your friends have a chance to beat you. Why would anyone spend any time trying to get better? Providing trophies as sole reward to play a game is not a good design decision. (Sure "fun" is a reward too, but fun is found in many games these days)

This simply shows you didn't read/understand my post. Please attempt to read posts and comprehend them before replying.

You CAN get massively better than other people. I did not say otherwise, and indeed, had you actually read my post, you'd know I said exactly that. Thing is, you have to actually TRY to get better than other people, actively, and that is a good thing.

People get better because they are competitive and WANT to beat their friends, but SSB games are such that you won't get massively better to the point of crushing your friends unless you try to do so or consistantly play against people better than yourself (in which case, you probably won't crush them anyway unless you've got casual friends and competitive friends).

IMHO SSBM blew it too as a party game, and there is way better fighting game out there. So whats left?

You can claim it blew it all you want, but reality shows that the game sold and continues to sell extremely well. Clearly, lots of people DO like it and lots of people DO feel it succeeded at a party game, and those lots of people are far more important to Ninetendo than random people on the internet.

Not every game you love is going to be massively successful, and not every game you hate is going to fare poorly. You may have some irrational or rational hatred of SSBB, but that doesn't change the fact that it made Nintendo scads of money and loads of people are having fun playing it.

There is a way better fighting game out there? What? Your "favorite game"? Really? I'm sorry, I thought we were aiming for actual, reasonable arguments here, not idiosynchratic garbage. If you want to claim it sucks that's fine, but if you can't actually come up with a rational reason for it then you're just going to look like the wankers who asked Yahtzee to review the game in the first place.

I like how the video runtime was 4:20, coincidence?

If there's one thing I've noticed is that Yahtzee hates any and every pick-up-and-go game. Especialy if they're multiplayer. So I already knew he wouldn't like it and there's no way for him to stop me from liking it. And it's not that hard to get Sonic or Snake. SO SHUT UP!!

Also there are people who ARE better at the game. People who play at tournaments etc. or people who truly understand the game will never lose to some dumbass nub mashing buttons, and also in actuality the characters arent so imbalanced, different people are good with different types of characters im personally good with light characters Lucas being my preferance but there are people who are unstoppable with heavy characters like ROB, DK and bowser. A lot of what was said in the review i cant agree with and 9/10 of the posts i cant agree with either but still funny.

Call me a Nintendo fanboy myself, because that might just be who I am. I liked the review (or whatever people would prefer to call it) but I don't entirely agree with it. For one thing, I wouldn't really compare SSBB to a fighting game since it really isn't a fighting game is it? Compare SSBB alongside with, oh lets say soul caliber and theres not a single similarity between them is there?

And to say this game is a button masher would be completely false because the only thing randomly hitting buttons will accomplish in this game is getting hit in the ass by a Zelda fireball (please note that this is not supposed to be KINKY).

But I don't think that having the best characters as locked ones to start out with was a good decision, it wouldn't be so bad if they just switched it round and replaced the locked characters with crap ones (*cough* Donkey Kong).

And yes I also agree with the whole 'being much better than all your mates' thing. That's happened to me with lots of other games, with the only exception being Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 which I thought was s**t anyway.

I am actually British though and am still waiting for the game to be released here, so some of you may question my authority to talk about the game like this. I'm simply basing this on the fact that I've played SSBM... And it rocked... It was awesome... And being young at the time gave me a chance to look up Peach's skirt in the trophy screen... Yep, I'm gonna get negative feedback for that one...

Anyway, theres no denying that SSBB is just a massive sellout including a collection of characters that themselves are massive sellouts. But I'm still gonna buy it anyway becuase the concept of hitting Pikachu with a baseball bat is just too hard to resist... Just too damn hard...

Nice review Yahtzee, keep em comin.

P.S. People who think Yahtzee isn't a real reviewer obviously don't know what a reviewer is or does. A reviewer is someone who takes the mick out of games no matter how good they are and tries their best to only show emotions of hate and disgust. Go out and find a GOOD internet reviewer who does a GOOD review of a game and shows many positive reactions towards it. If you find one then capture it on video otherwise people may think you are mad when you tell them.

P.P.S. I don't see why everyone can't find a single use for this game, I mean there are probably a lot of people who hate Mario and want to kill him. If so then buy Brawl, then beat , bash, torture, flame, electrify, vaporise, rape and kill mario and teabag his corpse. Family fun for hours of entertainment!

That Guy perfectly describes my friend.

He played SSBM nonstop before, so he was alredy better than me by a mile and 3/8, then he started playing brawl and all of his other friends have, and now i'm probably THE worst brawl player of my friend's friends even though i have the game myself! Hell, even the "seeking out other That Guys" happend to him!

But i do find this game enjoyable, and i just say get Yahtzee to throw all of those damned requests out of the way and start doing what he wants.

thank you Yahtzee for giving this game its long due criticism, its not like I have something against this game its just anything with fan boys that think to call it (in these precise words) "the second coming of Jesus" needs to DIE!

I don't understand how smash bros could be played as a button 'smasher'

Instead of button combinations, it's much more about timing & position, what I like so much about smash bros is the movement freedom

But then again, I also have no problem with how chaotic it looks, so maybe the speed/chaoticness & buttonmashing aspects are only there when first playing

Thank you.

When I first played Melee, my friends were all like, AHAHAHAHAH, YOU SUK! They constantly shove in my face how bad I am at melee. I have enjoyed Melee when I've played it, but the "You suck" gets annoying. Now, all I have to do is say, "You're THAT guy."

Again, thank you very much.

ok ok so smash bros isn't exactly going to set the world on fire but lets face it if your a guy who prefers jumping on enemys heads to being shot in the back of the head with a motherfuking sniper rifle where you can't even see the enemy (basically wht my friends do to me every time i try to play halo co-op or otherwise) this is a game for you and i know wht your all going to say "look its a nintendo fan lets take the piss out of him" well you can stop right now cause i am no were near a nintendo fan and never will be.

my point is you either like brawl or you don't thats it.

I really don't get it. It's a cheap gimmicky fighting game It shuld be just average but the entire god damned internet seems to be up in arms about it. So I ask you all out there, what has Brawl for the average non-nintendo fanatic gamer out there?

While I find all of these reviews to be quite accurate, this review is like kissing the feet of God and smelling the truth of what it means to kiss giant incorporeal feet. I'm sure all the reviewers out there that had to add a layer of gloss on their SSMB review in order to avoid psychotic backlash are raising their cups of weird shit to this one.

Gutterpunk:

indigo Dingo:
Yes, maybe some of his friends didn't know who Marth was. But a helluva lot of people did, and really wanted him back in. Thats the point. People want to see their favourite characters in, thats the point, it adds to the great premise of this game.

Yes but those people are the one who will willingly play to unlock Marth and whatever obscur characters. The mainstream player who just come to your place for an evening of (clean) fun on a party game don't care about this.

Why not make everyone happy and lock the one that they crave?

Like I said, if you want to play Snake and Sonic instantly, there is an easy way - two, in fact, as playing the SSE on very easy should take you (as my best guess) 1 hour. It is easy ashell and quick. And like I said, there is a distinct parralel between this and Neversoft banging on about Rock Yoyu Like A Hurriccane, and then having to play through the setlist to get it. Why didn't Yahtzee crucify Guitar Hero III for the exact same problems? All we ask is that he is not hypocritical.

Ugainius:
I really don't get it. It's a cheap gimmicky fighting game It shuld be just average but the entire god damned internet seems to be up in arms about it. So I ask you all out there, what has Brawl for the average non-nintendo fanatic gamer out there?

Nothing, cause its not for you. Christ, how does no-one get this. the game is the logical extreme of the question "who would win, Sonic or Mario?". Everyone who has ever pondered this for a second is gonna find it great. At its heart, its a great concept littered with genuinely funny moments (Sheik breaking for tea is just a golden sight) as well as the most amazing replay value I've ever seen in a game, and if you're only playing this for 20 minutes you've kind of missed the point. There are even handicaps to limit you alienating people for being "that guy"

jias333:
Also there are people who ARE better at the game. People who play at tournaments etc. or people who truly understand the game will never lose to some dumbass nub mashing buttons, and also in actuality the characters arent so imbalanced, different people are good with different types of characters im personally good with light characters Lucas being my preferance but there are people who are unstoppable with heavy characters like ROB, DK and bowser. A lot of what was said in the review i cant agree with and 9/10 of the posts i cant agree with either but still funny.

The characters may not be unbalanced, but the Final Smashes are. The most powerful has to be Sonic's, which is basically guaranteed to kill everyone. Contrast with Samus's, which can not only miss (and can be fairly easily dodged), but actually changes which character you're playing!

On the upside, I get the feeling some of the items are generally intended to allow poor players to beat up on better players. Things like the Hammer and Dragoon Parts can allow a poor player to easily KO better players. Depending on character, the Smash Ball can too... or it can just miss. Sadly you really have to already know what all the Final Smashes so you know how to use it, or if it's a Free Kill. Which isn't very new player friendly.

That was simply amazing i love you Yahtzee.And the ending song "Minority"is great too.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 39 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here