Zero Punctuation: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

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i agree with indigo dingo. Sometimes the reviews are funny, but lately i just feel as though hes just hating on games. Yes, i hated brawl and i agree with everything he said but it just wasnt funny. Isnt that what its supposed to be about, the humor?

Indigo_Dingo:
How was this funny?.

Are you reeeaaaally going to try to discuss why someone laughs at this review? I thought, from your previous post, that you still had some neurones left. I think they all died.

Indigo_Dingo:

Yahtzee:
And I must confess, engineering a scenario in which Mario can brutally beat the stupid out of Princess Peach while the crowd screams for blood is very satisfying.

The games concept is one of the most solid and best for a game in a long time, and he didn't say one single word about it.

You don't understand that you just said he doesn't talk about the game concept, by citing what he does say about the game concept as an example, right?

Indigo_Dingo:
all of his points are contradicted by earlier reviews.

Wait, you mean that he doesn't have the same opinions as everyone else? BLASPHEMY.

Indigo_Dingo:

mspencer82:

Indigo_Dingo:
And how was I supposed to know that?

Psychic powers. Everyone else has them.

(that was a joke also)

Please stop mocking my Autism.

Nothing he has posted has mocked your autism. How the heck would he have known you had autism? As an Asperger's Kid, you have become THAT much more fascinating to me.

VeryOblivious:

Indigo_Dingo:
How was this funny?.

Are you reeeaaaally going to try to discuss why someone laughs at this review? I thought, from your previous post, that you still had some neurone left. I think they all died.

Did you read what came after this? Or did you feel that it would take too much effort?

lol who is "Marth"

Forsooth and Pi:

Zephyros:
Don't look at my post count and discout it immediately, I've been watching ZP since Bioshock. Neither am I fandboy of any sort.

I watch ZP for two reasons: (1) Funny comments about games and (2) *relatively* objective reviews of games I woulnd't have heard of otherwise (Psychonauts, Condemned) while at the same time seeing the games I like be discussed through the viewpoint of someone other than me who is into the opposite spectrum of gaming(FPS and PC gaming) as I am (console adventures/RPGs).

Now, I knew Yahtzee would hate Brawl. I knew he would spew pure bile after that first protracted "Ugh" because I had a feeling he was being pestered nonstop to review it. I am actually sad he reviewed it now - all it would lead to was more frustration and hate for this game for the sole reason that he was forced into it. I was not expecting this review today, either.

But to avoid discussing the game itself, or elitism, or something else retarded that would lead to this topic's degeneration, I want to ask something about the review itself - that IS what this topic is for, right?

Now that I've got the prelude out of the way... is it just me, or was this not really a 'review' in the slightest? Normally Yahtzee bashes the game, but he comments on the mechanics, the story, the gameplay, the quirks, the pitfalls, the benefits... and you come out with some understanding of what the game is like. He gets valid points across. I just watched the review again, and he did not bring up many points about the game at all! Maybe a handful of comments at best, but nothing substantial. It was just full of hatred for this game and everyone who made him do it. Sure, I laughed a bunch of times, but he did not 'review' the game. I came out of this review with nothing I didn't know beforehand - something in direct contrast to literally every other review he has done - just the knowledge that Yahtzee (A) truly hates fighting games almost as much as JRPG's and (2) He abhors being forced to review a game.

Am I the only one to see this as not a 'review', but more of a hate-rant? Or am I in the minority on these boards (which I must admit I don't post to often, though I do lurk a lot).

I agree, and judging from a few other posts I don't think we're the only ones. There's probably a little bit of a "fanboy" in me who doesn't like seeing the game bashed thusly, but I knew the kind of reviews Yahtzee gives and that aside from Portal, he has criticisms for every game. I laughed at his bashing of J-RPGs and MMORPGs, even though they are some of my favorite games, because his statements are so damn accurate! This one just lacked any real substance, and it felt like he was angry more at the fanboys who support the game than the game itself.

I hear you guys there. It seemed that he was just really pissed off at all of the constant urging to review a game he didn't care about. I don't hate him for the unfair criticism, but I really wish he hadn't said the stuff about angry fanboys, because now every Nintendo-hating troll parrots him and dismisses all legitimate criticisms of the review as the rantings of angry fanboys.

Indigo_Dingo:
Did you read what came after this?

Idiotic babbling, although I didn't want to say it. It may provoke some more of your senseless arguments. Oh Jesus, I just did and here you come.

Bryy:

Indigo_Dingo:

Yahtzee:
And I must confess, engineering a scenario in which Mario can brutally beat the stupid out of Princess Peach while the crowd screams for blood is very satisfying.

Thats rather like a historian saying "what I like about British imperialism is that it allowed a great spread of technology worldwide, if at the expense of the lives of thousands". The games concept is one of the most solid and best for a game in a long time, and he didn't say one single word about it.

You don't understand that you just said he doesn't talk about the game concept, by citing what he does say about the game concept as an example, right?

Thats nowhere near the full extent of the concept. If he had actually done it propoerly, it would have sounded something like this "Long ago, when the internet was young, people invented the concept of forums. Society has been in a downturn since then. One particular breed of forums would become known as the "vs." forums. Inevitably, as they were the only fucking people with any established titles, people began wondering what would happen if Nintendo characters fought each other. well, somewhere in Nintendo, someone recognized a good idea when they saw it (shot of Sakurai with "my spin-off sense is tingling)and so was born the Super Smash Bros series, a title that has come to fill our hearts with glee at the site of our childhood idols hurting one another."
(all ad-libbed, and I'm aware that it shows)

Bryy:

Indigo_Dingo:
all of his points are contradicted by earlier reviews.

Wait, you mean that he doesn't have the same opinions as everyone else? BLASPHEMY.

HIS earlier reviews. I thought that was obvious.

Been a fan for awhile, but this review sucked. Do not do reviews on request anymore, it's a bad idea. Wasn't as funny as usual and the content was much more incorrect than usual as well. Also what is a "fanboy"? someone who likes something?

keithburgun:
Been a fan for awhile, but this review sucked. Do not do reviews on request anymore, it's a bad idea. Wasn't as funny as usual and the content was much more incorrect than usual as well. Also what is a "fanboy"? someone who likes something?

Pretty much. It somehow grew to be an insult, along with liberal, homosexual, and Unaustralian.

This thread demonstrates the scary event that occurs when you combine two set of fanboys. In this case, ZP fanboys and anti-Nintendo trolls

I've been a Smash fan since the very first game on the 64, and even I think this review is spot on. I wish they'd move on, but you know how much Nintendo loves to milk that cash cow.

Maybe some of you fanboys should open your eyes a little.

Emperor_Z:
This thread demonstrates the scary event that occurs when you combine two set of fanboys. In this case, ZP fanboys and anti-Nintendo (I guess that would be pro-sony or Microsoft) fanboys.

Since when are pro-nintendo players anti-sony, or vice-versa?

It's reviews like this that make me watch these so religiously!
Well, I'm rather the type of person who becomes a screaming fan for something without really knowing why, beyond the fact that I'm 'kinda sure I'll enjoy it'.
Of course, when I get around to playing it, I know there's something that I'm -not- enjoying but I don't know what it is, because I become far too blind to see past all the good things I've been waiting for.
Good on you, Yahtzee. I may still enjoy the game, but at least I don't praise it above others as much as I have for the past... while.

I meant to apply the word fanboy to the pro-sony/Microsoft part, but the parenthesis betrayed me. And of course, if one is a fanboy (not just fan) of one brand, he will hate it's competitors.

Every company milks it's franchises if it means more money. Nintendo is just really good at it.

BerkEducation:
It's reviews like this that make me watch these so religiously!
Well, I'm rather the type of person who becomes a screaming fan for something without really knowing why, beyond the fact that I'm 'kinda sure I'll enjoy it'.
Of course, when I get around to playing it, I know there's something that I'm -not- enjoying but I don't know what it is, because I become far too blind to see past all the good things I've been waiting for.
Good on you, Yahtzee. I may still enjoy the game, but at least I don't praise it above others as much as I have for the past... while.

A review really shouldn't alter your liking of a game. The point of a review is to advise those who have not already played it.

Kaname13:
Every company milks it's franchises if it means more money. Nintendo is just really good at it.

On the other hand, if they did not keep exploring a series, we would have never seen Metroid Prime, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64 or Kirbys Adventure (or whatever the second one was).

Emperor_Z:
This thread demonstrates the scary event that occurs when you combine two set of fanboys. In this case, ZP fanboys and anti-Nintendo trolls

It's more humorous than scary, really. If Yahtzee is reading through these posts right now, I bet he's laughing his ass off. I'm sure he predicted something along the lines of this to happen when he decided to make this video.

Personally I'm growing bored of the argument here. Yahtzee said it best: The people who already love Brawl aren't going to change their mind after seeing the review. People here are just arguing in favor or against the video based on their subjective views, instead of the facts presented.

Indigo_Dingo:
Thats nowhere near the full extent of the concept. If he had actually done it propoerly, it would have sounded something like this "Long ago, when the internet was young, people invented the concept of forums. Society has been in a downturn since then. One particular breed of forums would become known as the "vs." forums. Inevitably, as they were the only fucking people with any established titles, people began wondering what would happen if Nintendo characters fought each other. well, somewhere in Nintendo, someone recognized a good idea when they saw it (shot of Sakurai with "my spin-off sense is tingling)and so was born the Super Smash Bros series, a title that has come to fill our hearts with glee at the site of our childhood idols hurting one another."
(all ad-libbed, and I'm aware that it shows)

.... that's exactly what he said. And it was a positive.

So what the BLEEP are you angry with?

How he PHRASED IT?

Forsooth and Pi:

Zephyros:
Don't look at my post count and discout it immediately, I've been watching ZP since Bioshock. Neither am I fandboy of any sort.

I watch ZP for two reasons: (1) Funny comments about games and (2) *relatively* objective reviews of games I woulnd't have heard of otherwise (Psychonauts, Condemned) while at the same time seeing the games I like be discussed through the viewpoint of someone other than me who is into the opposite spectrum of gaming(FPS and PC gaming) as I am (console adventures/RPGs).

Now, I knew Yahtzee would hate Brawl. I knew he would spew pure bile after that first protracted "Ugh" because I had a feeling he was being pestered nonstop to review it. I am actually sad he reviewed it now - all it would lead to was more frustration and hate for this game for the sole reason that he was forced into it. I was not expecting this review today, either.

But to avoid discussing the game itself, or elitism, or something else retarded that would lead to this topic's degeneration, I want to ask something about the review itself - that IS what this topic is for, right?

Now that I've got the prelude out of the way... is it just me, or was this not really a 'review' in the slightest? Normally Yahtzee bashes the game, but he comments on the mechanics, the story, the gameplay, the quirks, the pitfalls, the benefits... and you come out with some understanding of what the game is like. He gets valid points across. I just watched the review again, and he did not bring up many points about the game at all! Maybe a handful of comments at best, but nothing substantial. It was just full of hatred for this game and everyone who made him do it. Sure, I laughed a bunch of times, but he did not 'review' the game. I came out of this review with nothing I didn't know beforehand - something in direct contrast to literally every other review he has done - just the knowledge that Yahtzee (A) truly hates fighting games almost as much as JRPG's and (2) He abhors being forced to review a game.

Am I the only one to see this as not a 'review', but more of a hate-rant? Or am I in the minority on these boards (which I must admit I don't post to often, though I do lurk a lot).

I agree, and judging from a few other posts I don't think we're the only ones. There's probably a little bit of a "fanboy" in me who doesn't like seeing the game bashed thusly, but I knew the kind of reviews Yahtzee gives and that aside from Portal, he has criticisms for every game. I laughed at his bashing of J-RPGs and MMORPGs, even though they are some of my favorite games, because his statements are so damn accurate! This one just lacked any real substance, and it felt like he was angry more at the fanboys who support the game than the game itself.

Unfortunately, you're both very much wrong. Yahtzee makes a number of good, relevant points in his review that I have to say I totally agree with, as another would be reviewer of games being forced by powers beyond his control to play through the horrible thing when he'd rather be out catching butterflies or getting sexually assaulted by passing otters.

1. The single player campaign is long - frankly, too long

2. The "fighting" kind of sucks a whole lot for a fighting game, to the point that it lacks any kind of obvious control. His point about the camera being zoomed out and the action obscured could only have been made clearer if he'd said what I'm (probably not everybody else) all thinking - you never feel like you're really in control of your character, or having much influence on what's happening on the screen.

3. The game has unlockable everything falling wholesale out of its sensitive bits, which he construes as horrible. As a tremendously anti-social gamer (also a self-diagnosed Aspy, lest anyone think I'm denigrating his disease) who still kind of enjoys a good fighting game, unlockable stuff is wonderful. I like finding out that something I did reasonably well made more content happen. It's like that feeling you get when you finally finish putting together your PC and it turns out to be more than the sum of blood and frustration you just had to sit through. But he makes a fair point - in a game that is at its best when you know precisely dick about what you're doing in the first place, putting in a bunch of incredibly obscure (I had to look up who Marth was, though I managed to guess all the Earthbound associates) unlockable crap that you don't actually get access to until ten hours in - or approximately two and one half parties' worth of coherent play - is the kind of stupid that's normally reserved for reality programming on basic cable, and the only reason Nintendo can get away with it is that it has such a massive and rabid base of fans dangling from its genitals that they could make the game explode in the console and burn down your house and only expect to hear mild complaints. Unlockable anything in a casual multiplayer game is criminally stupid.

4. His frustration also proves a point - specifically, that this ridiculous excuse for a game seems to be all anybody is talking about. Well, two weeks ago, but you get the idea. When enough people are discussing something like this, you expect it to be either really good or really bad, and this game is neither. It's a barely tolerable platformer strapped to a fighting game engine more interested in mascots and bright colors than it is with gameplay. That's the formula for below average. This is nothing anybody should be going on about. It is not revolutionary. It is not an affront to God. It's just a thoroughly meh game, and the fact that the gaming community, at least temporarily, was gripped with the sort of rabid obsession over the title that normally leads to restraining orders is incredibly frustrating and annoying to those of us who "don't get it." I can only imagine what it's like when you're a guy who's expected to write one funny review every week and read it over the air with clever and entertaining accompanying animation and you realize that, like it or not, you're going to have to address this.....thing whether you want to or not. It says something about the culture - probably not complimentary - and we deserve to be chastised for it.

So yeah - there's valid points that he's making there. And he's right. What else is there to talk about? The control scheme? What controls? You could change out the big rubber condom on your remote and bounce the thing on the ground and affect roughly the same response from your characters. The visuals? What visuals - it looks like every Nintendo game ever, though I'm sure that for the sequel they'll pull some other obscure title that time forgot out of their butts. The cute, lovable characters? What love? I don't know who half of these dinguses are in the first place, and the half that I do know about I'm ambivalent toward at best because it seems like they show up in every game Nintendo releases ever. The story? You mean the story told entirely through pantomime about a recognizable evil character (that we can't mention, mind you, or be screamed at for spoiling things) spewing purple crap all over some weird reject island from Skies of Arcadia where apparently everything ever associated with Nintendo or HAL Labs lives when it's not off doing the same thing for the thirtieth consecutive time to earn money for the parent corporation? You mean that story? I'll be happy to explain it to you as soon as I find somebody to translate the depth of feeling and subtext conveyed in Diddy Kong's apish buffoonery into the English language.

The moral of this review is that he pretty much reviewed everything there was to look at that was worth mentioning. The game is Melee after a big fat flaxseed oil rubdown with an ungainly platformer surgically attached like some kind of bizarre conjoined twin, sharing some of the same vital organs but using them in twisted and inappropriate ways that put the whole operation at risk of sudden death. Most of all, what's Yahtzee going to say that's going to affect anybody's opinion about anything on this game? Nintendo fans will buy it because they drink the Kool-Aide. There's nothing wrong with that. They'll enjoy it for whatever reason they do. I certainly don't understand it, but since I actually finished the first Shadow Hearts, I don't think I'm in a position to criticize people for playing below average games out of an unexplainable sense of affection. But all that's going to happen if you sit here like I just have and point out the game's flaws is they will get angry. Similarly, people who don't like Nintendo are going to very rightly hate this game for its myriad failings. People who don't care....well, they'll keep right on not caring. I'm personally glad that Yahtzee took the game (and the culture) to task for that, and I'd pity the guy for having to go through it if I didn't kind of want his job.

But not a real review? No sir - there was a review in there.

Indigo_Dingo:

Kaname13:
Every company milks it's franchises if it means more money. Nintendo is just really good at it.

On the other hand, if they did not keep exploring a series, we would have never seen Metroid Prime, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64 or Kirbys Adventure (or whatever the second one was).

What exactly are you responding to here? He didn't say anything about what Nintendo was doing is bad. There is no Former Hand.

cool_moe_dee_345:
The control scheme? What controls? You could change out the big rubber condom on your remote and bounce the thing on the ground and affect roughly the same response from your characters.

This quote has inspired me to make a Youtube video of just Wario's rolling on the ground laughing victory pose so I'll have a proper response to comments as stupid as that one.

dude i have like 3 freinds that are totally prepared and know all of the moves. It sucks.

Do you guys think we can hit 1000 posts on this topic? I think we can!! Let's keep bickering everyone. Quickly, someone say something about my mother, then I'll mention that Mario is almost as overrated as Halo and that Shadow of the Colossus is not art.

Emperor_Z:

cool_moe_dee_345:
The control scheme? What controls? You could change out the big rubber condom on your remote and bounce the thing on the ground and affect roughly the same response from your characters.

This quote has inspired me to make a Youtube video of just Wario's rolling on the ground laughing victory pose so I'll have a proper response to comments as stupid as that one.

Go right ahead. I'm glad to inspire the younger generation. Especially when I'm right. Hyperbole aside, I could play this game with my feet and feel like I had just about as much control of my character as I do with my hands. The problem with putting eight billion different characters in a game and mapping every single thing they do to basically two buttons is that what those characters actually do when you push the buttons is kind of a guessing game. Some of the characters handle so differently from some of the others that I might as well hold the thing upside down. Most importantly, I don't feel like I'm in control of the game even when I'm doing it right, which is an error in both the control scheme and the presentation. It's workable, in that it gets the job done of letting you do......well, something on the screen, and if you keep at it long enough you can kind of guess what sorts of things are going to happen (sometimes), but guessing shouldn't be a part of the equation.

So, it works, but it's much less than anything I feel comfortable with. Kind of my point. Also relevant - if I shoved the controls down my pants and danced like Napoleon Dynamite, I'd probably have about a thirty percent chance of beating a randomly selected opponent using them "the right way" (and who's to say my way is wrong when it FEELS so right?). A thirty percent chance of success when operating the controls blind and in the grips of passion does not imply to me a terrific correlation between my intentions and the events on the screen. It kind of makes me think that any similarity between my vision of events and the way things actually play out is little more than coincidental at best. That's not good controls.

I liked SSBB, but i still dont kno who the hell Marth is... or that other sword guy... or Lucas... or Pit.... Holy shit it is a fanboy game!!

Yahtzee, I love you.
For ages now I have been telling people "no actually I dont care for smash brothers" and they've all scoffed and spit at me.
Now I'll just link them this review and tell them to bite a fat one.
:)

cool_moe_dee_345:
Unfortunately, you're both very much wrong. Yahtzee makes a number of good, relevant points in his review that I have to say I totally agree with, as another would be reviewer of games being forced by powers beyond his control to play through the horrible thing when he'd rather be out catching butterflies or getting sexually assaulted by passing otters.

1. The single player campaign is long - frankly, too long

2. The "fighting" kind of sucks a whole lot for a fighting game, to the point that it lacks any kind of obvious control. His point about the camera being zoomed out and the action obscured could only have been made clearer if he'd said what I'm (probably not everybody else) all thinking - you never feel like you're really in control of your character, or having much influence on what's happening on the screen.

3. The game has unlockable everything falling wholesale out of its sensitive bits, which he construes as horrible. As a tremendously anti-social gamer (also a self-diagnosed Aspy, lest anyone think I'm denigrating his disease) who still kind of enjoys a good fighting game, unlockable stuff is wonderful. I like finding out that something I did reasonably well made more content happen. It's like that feeling you get when you finally finish putting together your PC and it turns out to be more than the sum of blood and frustration you just had to sit through. But he makes a fair point - in a game that is at its best when you know precisely dick about what you're doing in the first place, putting in a bunch of incredibly obscure (I had to look up who Marth was, though I managed to guess all the Earthbound associates) unlockable crap that you don't actually get access to until ten hours in - or approximately two and one half parties' worth of coherent play - is the kind of stupid that's normally reserved for reality programming on basic cable, and the only reason Nintendo can get away with it is that it has such a massive and rabid base of fans dangling from its genitals that they could make the game explode in the console and burn down your house and only expect to hear mild complaints. Unlockable anything in a casual multiplayer game is criminally stupid.

4. His frustration also proves a point - specifically, that this ridiculous excuse for a game seems to be all anybody is talking about. Well, two weeks ago, but you get the idea. When enough people are discussing something like this, you expect it to be either really good or really bad, and this game is neither. It's a barely tolerable platformer strapped to a fighting game engine more interested in mascots and bright colors than it is with gameplay. That's the formula for below average. This is nothing anybody should be going on about. It is not revolutionary. It is not an affront to God. It's just a thoroughly meh game, and the fact that the gaming community, at least temporarily, was gripped with the sort of rabid obsession over the title that normally leads to restraining orders is incredibly frustrating and annoying to those of us who "don't get it." I can only imagine what it's like when you're a guy who's expected to write one funny review every week and read it over the air with clever and entertaining accompanying animation and you realize that, like it or not, you're going to have to address this.....thing whether you want to or not. It says something about the culture - probably not complimentary - and we deserve to be chastised for it.

So yeah - there's valid points that he's making there. And he's right. What else is there to talk about? The control scheme? What controls? You could change out the big rubber condom on your remote and bounce the thing on the ground and affect roughly the same response from your characters. The visuals? What visuals - it looks like every Nintendo game ever, though I'm sure that for the sequel they'll pull some other obscure title that time forgot out of their butts. The cute, lovable characters? What love? I don't know who half of these dinguses are in the first place, and the half that I do know about I'm ambivalent toward at best because it seems like they show up in every game Nintendo releases ever. The story? You mean the story told entirely through pantomime about a recognizable evil character (that we can't mention, mind you, or be screamed at for spoiling things) spewing purple crap all over some weird reject island from Skies of Arcadia where apparently everything ever associated with Nintendo or HAL Labs lives when it's not off doing the same thing for the thirtieth consecutive time to earn money for the parent corporation? You mean that story? I'll be happy to explain it to you as soon as I find somebody to translate the depth of feeling and subtext conveyed in Diddy Kong's apish buffoonery into the English language.

The moral of this review is that he pretty much reviewed everything there was to look at that was worth mentioning. The game is Melee after a big fat flaxseed oil rubdown with an ungainly platformer surgically attached like some kind of bizarre conjoined twin, sharing some of the same vital organs but using them in twisted and inappropriate ways that put the whole operation at risk of sudden death. Most of all, what's Yahtzee going to say that's going to affect anybody's opinion about anything on this game? Nintendo fans will buy it because they drink the Kool-Aide. There's nothing wrong with that. They'll enjoy it for whatever reason they do. I certainly don't understand it, but since I actually finished the first Shadow Hearts, I don't think I'm in a position to criticize people for playing below average games out of an unexplainable sense of affection. But all that's going to happen if you sit here like I just have and point out the game's flaws is they will get angry. Similarly, people who don't like Nintendo are going to very rightly hate this game for its myriad failings. People who don't care....well, they'll keep right on not caring. I'm personally glad that Yahtzee took the game (and the culture) to task for that, and I'd pity the guy for having to go through it if I didn't kind of want his job.

But not a real review? No sir - there was a review in there.

1. I agree on that point.

2. Brawl is not a "true" fighting game, and anybody who places it strictly in that class is missing the big picture. It is a fighting/platformer game at best. I've never noticed the camera to be an issue except in really large stages, which I tend to avoid for that reason, and many Brawl fans agree that New Pork City and 75m are terrible stages.

3. I agree on that point. Some unlockable stuff would have been nice, but there was way too much here.

4. This point is ludicrous. Just because a game is popular doesn't mean that it should be reviewed in a stricter fashion. A reviewer should look at the content of the game, and not just how every other critic views it. If Brawl had a lot less hype, the review would have been a lot less scathing, which is one of the reasons why I dislike it... it feels like the main flaw with the game isn't the game itself but it's band of screaming fanboys. Yahtzee can certainly mention that fact, but he shouldn't base his entire review on it.

So I agreed on two points that the review certainly dealt with, but this is not the crux of the game. At the very least, WiFi should have a big mention. This was Nintendo's biggest foray into console WiFi, and they blew it. Big time. And since we're looking at Brawl, and not Melee, why don't we mention some of the features that were exclusive to Brawl? The lottery was done away with in favor of the "coin launcher," which is fun for only a few minutes before it tires you out, especially if you want to collect every trophy in the game. The stage editor is a nice touch, but it is severely limited in what it offers, and feels more like an afterthought. Stickers are just plain stupid; their only purpose is to pump up characters' stats in the Subspace Emissary (which we already agreed was too long and pointless) or for putting together your own collages. And Masterpieces don't even deserve a mention; they're just there to bolster Nintendo's sales for other games on the Virtual Console.

One of my fears for Brawl was that it would be a step back from Melee, and in many ways it was. Rather than comparing Brawl as a standalone game to the rest of the series, Yahtzee jumbles them all together, and then, if that wasn't enough, compares the entire series to the likes of other fighting games, which have little in common to begin with! Yes, Brawl had some flaws, and yes, they were mentioned in the review, but a lot of content was missing.

m_jim:
Do you guys think we can hit 1000 posts on this topic? I think we can!! Let's keep bickering everyone. Quickly, someone say something about my mother, then I'll mention that Mario is almost as overrated as Halo and that Shadow of the Colossus is not art.

Your mother, sir, is a... jeez, why don't you just finish off the sentence m_jim? I'm too good natured for 'ur mom' jokes. On the other hand, Halo is overrated. A good game, ruined by it (mostly) rabid fanbase (kinda like Nintendo).

- A procrastinator

So... much... nerd rage...

N.B. I'll include Yahtzee in this, because it's more amusing that way.

I hate the end song. So many terrible memories.

Well guys, every one of you dropped the ball here. I am sure (ish) that Yahtzee reads through the comments... but there is no chance in hell he will this time. Valid points have been made, fair criticisms, etc., but they will go unnoticed because there is no way he will wade through all this. Good job, guys.

cool_moe_dee_345:

Emperor_Z:

cool_moe_dee_345:
The control scheme? What controls? You could change out the big rubber condom on your remote and bounce the thing on the ground and affect roughly the same response from your characters.

This quote has inspired me to make a Youtube video of just Wario's rolling on the ground laughing victory pose so I'll have a proper response to comments as stupid as that one.

Go right ahead. I'm glad to inspire the younger generation. Especially when I'm right. Hyperbole aside, I could play this game with my feet and feel like I had just about as much control of my character as I do with my hands. The problem with putting eight billion different characters in a game and mapping every single thing they do to basically two buttons is that what those characters actually do when you push the buttons is kind of a guessing game. Some of the characters handle so differently from some of the others that I might as well hold the thing upside down. Most importantly, I don't feel like I'm in control of the game even when I'm doing it right, which is an error in both the control scheme and the presentation. It's workable, in that it gets the job done of letting you do......well, something on the screen, and if you keep at it long enough you can kind of guess what sorts of things are going to happen (sometimes), but guessing shouldn't be a part of the equation.

So, it works, but it's much less than anything I feel comfortable with. Kind of my point. Also relevant - if I shoved the controls down my pants and danced like Napoleon Dynamite, I'd probably have about a thirty percent chance of beating a randomly selected opponent using them "the right way" (and who's to say my way is wrong when it FEELS so right?). A thirty percent chance of success when operating the controls blind and in the grips of passion does not imply to me a terrific correlation between my intentions and the events on the screen. It kind of makes me think that any similarity between my vision of events and the way things actually play out is little more than coincidental at best. That's not good controls.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9aPENiXp_Gw
Skip to 3:08

If you honestly think you could beat me, a fairly mediocre player, even once out of 100 tries, just by smashing buttons at random, then you are truly delusional.

Either you're the worst player in existance, or you're just making crap up. There is no guesswork to what move you'll perform in Smash Bros. I'm leaning toward the latter, judging by the way you made up a random statistic and continued to use it for an entire paragraph.

cool_moe_dee_345:
Also relevant - if I shoved the controls down my pants and danced like Napoleon Dynamite, I'd probably have about a thirty percent chance of beating a randomly selected opponent using them "the right way" (and who's to say my way is wrong when it FEELS so right?).

I DEFINITELY want a Youtube video of that.

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