Zero Punctuation: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

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Turbowombat:
Just because you don't know how to do anything that wasn't mentioned in the user manual doesn't mean you have any ground to say the game has no depth. In fact the depth would be determined by how far beyond the user manual or casual player the games eccentricities extend.

Well, the game didn't interest me enough to get to the obsessive compulsive, play day and night, level of beyond the manual zen-ness that you've apparently achieved.

mspencer82:

The point is, if I consider SSB a shallow "fighting game" with my lack of skill, it must be pretty damn shallow.

Again wouldn't this be the opposite of true? If you play the first level of a Mario game and say it's too easy you have no grounding. Similarly if you play as far as the instruction manual and single player campaign extends (roughly 1% of the actual games mechanics) wouldn't you know too little about it to make any judgement at all. The amount of the game which is closed off to your limited play would denote exactly how deep it goes rather than how shallow.

mspencer82:

Damn, you caught me. I'm actually -insert name of some world champion of some random fighting game here-, my identity has been compromised!

The point is, if I consider SSB a shallow "fighting game" with my lack of skill, it must be pretty damn shallow.

Or, it's, get this, opinion! LOL NOT AGAIN!!1

Well said Yahtzee. As much as I like Melee, I really cannot justify buying another update of Smash Bros., Super Mario, Mario Gold, Mario Kart, Mario Party, when I've already gone through at least 3 prequals.

It makes me feel like one of those yearly FIFA/ Evolution Soccer buyers.

mspencer82:
Well, the game didn't interest me enough to get to the obsessive compulsive, play day and night, level of beyond the manual zen-ness that you've apparently achieved.

More than half an hour isn't "obsessive compulsive."

Turbowombat:
Again wouldn't this be the opposite of true? If you play the first level of a Mario game and say it's too easy you have no grounding. Similarly if you play as far as the instruction manual and single player campaign extends (roughly 1% of the actual games mechanics) wouldn't you know too little about it to make any judgement at all. The amount of the game which is closed off to your limited play would denote exactly how deep it goes rather than how shallow.

What can I say? With the Game Cube lacking all forms of online multiplayer and my friends not willing to touch the game with a ten foot pole I was forced to go with that 1% of shallow gameplay shit.

I love the "you just don't get it" argument that keeps popping up.

Attention Super Smash Bros fanboys: I DO NOT LIKE SMASH BROS, and nothing you can say can make me change my mind. Give it up.

Garfgarog:

mspencer82:

Damn, you caught me. I'm actually -insert name of some world champion of some random fighting game here-, my identity has been compromised!

The point is, if I consider SSB a shallow "fighting game" with my lack of skill, it must be pretty damn shallow.

Or, it's, get this, opinion! LOL NOT AGAIN!!1

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

Laughed all the way through,
Really good, loved the new animations, great job.

mspencer82:

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

Not when it's wrong, especially not when you've admitted to trolling. Have fun.

mspencer82:

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

mspencer82:
The point is, if I consider SSB a shallow "fighting game" with my lack of skill, it must be pretty damn shallow.

I think saying "it must be pretty damn shallow" is something you'd claim when you don't want other people to have an opinion.

mspencer82:

What can I say? With the Game Cube lacking all forms of online multiplayer and my friends not willing to touch the game with a ten foot pole I was forced to go with that 1% of shallow gameplay shit.

I love the "you just don't get it" argument that keeps popping up.

Attention Super Smash Bros fanboys: I DO NOT LIKE SMASH BROS, and nothing you can say can make me change my mind. Give it up.

See an objective truth based on your experience is much better than a rattling assertion based on your dissinterest. I find fanboys a sad sad thing despite being one. I commend people for honestly not liking it much like I'm happy whenever someone kicks the World of Warcrack habit. I just take offense when someone claims an arbitrary demerit against the game based solely on lack of experience. True dat on Nintendo sucking online.

Yahtzee has created another enlightening review.

I like to play Brawl myself, but only because I know quite a bunch of people who are good at it; in the broad sense, I really loved his criticisms. This is the big problem with party games, there's always someone who's good at it and all the rest are figuring out how to jump without their good old fashioned Y-button.

So that must mean it's a competitive game for tournaments and such. Nope, not if the online mode is more or less a throw-away, in Nintendo's continuing desperate pursuits to keep you away from "the unmarked van"

I actually kind of expected he wouldn't like it in the review, and whatever if I love the game myself; this was once again an excellent highlighting of why big, money-stuffed game developers are WANKERS now matter how great their games are.

...I am that guy... sorry..
ive always been a THAT GUY..
in SSBB and guitar hero..

Good review. I laughed long and hard at the Japanese "Fuck YOOOOU."

Garfgarog:

mspencer82:

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

Not when it's wrong, especially not when you've admitted to trolling. Have fun.

The fuck are you talking about? When did I admit to trolling. And how the fuck is an "opinion" wrong? Okay, granted if you say "in my opinion the Sun orbits around the Earth", that would be wrong, but a person's personal enjoyment of a game or lack thereof seems to be more a matter of not right or wrong opinion.

I think all the fan boy rage is NOT directed toward changing non-fan boy opinions. I think we're just upset that everyone's criticism are generally what we would consider false generalizations about our video game.

It'd be like you all telling your closest African American friend that fried chicken is over rated.

In general, I would say that YOU ALL are entitled to YOUR opinions, and We are entitled to OUR opinions, and we are BOTH entitled to argue about them for as long as BOTH of us are interested in doing so. Which will probably be for the next couple of days.

On an entirely different note: Does anyone else agree that we seem to be on pace to break the ZP record for most comments in response to a video? We hit the two hundred mark in a matter of hours.

i could feel the passion in this one, the pure hatred. I can genuinely believe Yahtze DESPISES THIS GAME lol
and agree with his point about unlocking stuff. V. annoying

when r nitendo going to realize that mario games r losing there touch! i mean SSB is shit for gods sake!

Well largely i agree with yahtzee on this one, Most of these mario franchises such as the mario series or the Link series never change much. Now I'm not saying all such games are bad some of them can be quite good despite the similarities to previous versions.

As for this game in question i actually likes the multi player part of it. While it is true that you need to unlock stuff such as characters its not like other such games don't use this method of encouraging repeated playing. I will say tho the changing environments is really a nice change from what you usually see from other Fighting games.

I love ssbb first and foremost. however...it seems to me that while going to melee from the original smash bros was like jumping from a plain to a mountain top, going from melee to brawl was more akin to jumping from a plain to a slightly raised lump of dirt. It was better but only enough to be considered an expansion to melee rather than a whole game in it's own right. the story was good especially considering it had no talking(wait I take that back. it was a serious plus that there was no talking.) although I must say that the actual gameplay of the story was frustrating and annoying. The side scroller's time has come and gone this being little more than an over hyped death rattle. Still the fights are intense, the final smashes worth watching and I must admit that i'd buy another one if nintendo created it. I'd like to thank yahtzee for being brutally honest. Nintendo needs more harsh criticism seeing as how everyone seems awed by the golden light shining out the wii's ass.

CheshireChaz:
i could feel the passion in this one, the pure hatred. I can genuinely believe Yahtze DESPISES THIS GAME lol
and agree with his point about unlocking stuff. V. annoying

Agreed. I can see unlockables in a game that are purely cosmetic, but making character unlockable? Mortal Kombat's last few games pissed me off with the locked characters, but I think in that case they only did it with older characters so veteran gamers would be forced to play the new guys. Why lock a new character?

I know what everybody means, but the smash bos series does have strategy. Whenever me and my friend play smash bros. i always win easily. i use tactic. o hit the buttons at the right time and i use combos. my friend is a button masher. he can only win from me if he is aided by two level 9 enemies. But i do hate having to unlock all sorts of stuff

mspencer82:

CheshireChaz:
i could feel the passion in this one, the pure hatred. I can genuinely believe Yahtze DESPISES THIS GAME lol
and agree with his point about unlocking stuff. V. annoying

Agreed. I can see unlockables in a game that are purely cosmetic, but making character unlockable? Mortal Kombat's last few games pissed me off with the locked characters, but I think in that case they only did it with older characters so veteran gamers would be forced to play the new guys. Why lock a new character?

Well remember those characters that are locked in this game were a major part of the advertising campaign so i guess it makes a certain perverse sense to have them locked.

Wow, seven pages of responses so far.

If nothing else, Yahtzee is raking in the traffic for the Escapist. lols.

mspencer82:

Garfgarog:

mspencer82:

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

Not when it's wrong, especially not when you've admitted to trolling. Have fun.

The fuck are you talking about? When did I admit to trolling. And how the fuck is an "opinion" wrong? Okay, granted if you say "in my opinion the Sun orbits around the Earth", that would be wrong, but a person's personal enjoyment of a game or lack thereof seems to be more a matter of not right or wrong opinion.

You said that the game is shallow. Did you watch the video "Perfect Control" posted earlier? Whether or not you like the game, that's your call. Sure, that's your opinion and that cannot be wrong, by definition. However, to say that the game is shallow is misinformed. That would be similar to saying that Street Fighter is shallow because all you know how to do is the hadouken move with Ryu. Stop acting like the gaming world revolves around your know-how. Recognize that there are people out there who are better than you.

mspencer82:

Garfgarog:

mspencer82:

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

Not when it's wrong, especially not when you've admitted to trolling. Have fun.

The fuck are you talking about? When did I admit to trolling. And how the fuck is an "opinion" wrong? Okay, granted if you say "in my opinion the Sun orbits around the Earth", that would be wrong, but a person's personal enjoyment of a game or lack thereof seems to be more a matter of not right or wrong opinion.

Attention Super Smash Bros fanboys: I DO NOT LIKE SMASH BROS, and nothing you can say can make me change my mind. Give it up.

Also, turns out that claiming a game to be shallow when you didn't actually even try to find depth beyond what is immediately presented to you makes an opinion wrong.

Enjoy your Halo.

METALDRAG0N:
Well remember those characters that are locked in this game were a major part of the advertising campaign so i guess it makes a certain perverse sense to have them locked.

What, like a cheap attempt to prolong gameplay by locking the characters that were a major selling point for some gamers? I guess it encourages you to play longer, but I know when I looked up the requirements for unlocking characters in Melee my response was "well fuck that, I'll keep playing as Link and Mario"

Kermi:
I'm sad to say this is the first Zero Punctuation review I didn't enjoy. not because I feel the need to defend my Wii purchase, I'm well aware the modest white obelisk has been gathering dust since a week after Resident Evil 4 was released on it and I got tired of rescuing the president's daughter on a jetski - a scenario I never imagined would grow tiresome before performing it but twice.

Sadly, the review swayed further from vitriolic mockery of the games flaws and more to what I feel was rather unnecessary hatred for the game, the console, fans of the game and people who visit the Escapist once a week to hear some well-connected words they can then proceed to abuse verbatim until the next pussy-slurping installment. I felt as though I was some sort of bottom-feeding, scum-sucking waste of human life for daring to click the play button and can't help but feel offended by this unwarranted assault even though I fall squarely outside the target area of this verbal bombardment.

I have problem reading what you said but I can clearly say "pretty much that" and point at you for my opinion about this review too.
Although I thought it was partially funny :p but mostly.. NehMeh

That was awesome. I wish every week could be that good.

Not even going to say it, but I'm really looking forward to next week. Don't let me down.

Garfgarog:
Also, turns out that claiming a game to be shallow when you didn't actually even try to find depth beyond what is immediately presented to you makes an opinion wrong.

Enjoy your Halo.

Hah! I was just wondering how long it would take someone to mention Halo just because I have a Monitor for an avatar. You lasted longer than I expected, good job.

Okay, saying I didn't try to find depth in SSBM is really wrong. I played through the story mode twice, play several matches against the computer controlled opponents, and even unlocked two or three characters. When I said I got bored with it after five minutes, that didn't mean I stopped playing after five minutes. I just suffered a little longer hoping it would get better. For me, it didn't.

Now, I don't want any misunderstanding so everyone should read this post exactly as it is, written by one of those Nintendo fanboys who has nothing better to do but play Brawl by himself. So take from this post what you may.

My first concern is that it seemed like Yahtzee didn't even play through the whole game, or even most of it, or even any more than the two or so hours it took for him to come up with enough stuff for him to talk about really really fast for four minutes.

Second, if you don't like fighting games because of button mashing, than anyone who's played Brawl for any decent amount of time (see point above) would know that Brawl actually does a better job at this than most fighting games. In your normal fighting games you have the options of horizontal attach, vertical attack, kick, and block. Which, when you button mash together usually results in your character at least doing something. With Brawl you've got normal attack, special attack, and jump buttons; usually resulting in anyone who's trying to button mash to just jump around and perform incredibly weak attacks and sometimes even kill themselves (i.e. Yoshi egg roll themselves right off the damn stage). All this means that Brawl rewards you for actually learning the basic controls because it means you spend a lot more time actually fighting and a lot less time jumping around like a dick.

Third, if you spend any amount of time playing the game with a basic understanding of the controls/moveset (see the last TWO points above) you know that YOU CAN see what other players are doing (NOT just a brightly colored maelstrom, LSD induced, clusterfuck) and to be any good you DO have to respond to other players moves. I think the fact that there are players who are good at the game, logically seems to follow that they can see what their opponents are doing and counteract them.

And yes, it IS annoying that all the characters that have been getting so much hype are locked until you practically beat the game anyway. But if anyone is actually surprised by this fact... Well, there's just no nice way of putting this, you're an f*ing moron. Game developers have been doing this for years, and now it just seems like your trying to hard nitpick and find flaws.

I suppose what really irks me however, is that there are TONS of reason to not be absolutely in love with with Brawl, or even like Brawl, but Yahtzee seems to only comment on these in passing. The single player was so repetitive and the tacked on now-do-it-all-again-so-we-can-make-the-game-twice-as-long element was so horrible that if anything should be the down fall of Brawl it should be that. Not to mention the poorly supported Wi-Fi play..

So stop complaining and just start bashing Pikachu's skull in with a frying pan.

mspencer82:
Why lock a new character?

Most unlockable characters in Brawl ARE old.

Garfgarog:

mspencer82:

Well you hooting Smash Bros fans can't seem to get that I'm entitled to my own opinion....

Not when it's wrong, especially not when you've admitted to trolling. Have fun.

Can i ask one thing?

I see that in many forums...

Why is talking not positively about Nintendo almost always considered trolling?

Roxwuff:

My first concern is that it seemed like Yahtzee didn't even play through the whole game, or even most of it, or even any more than the two or so hours it took for him to come up with enough stuff for him to talk about really really fast for four minutes.

I got the same impression myself, which lead me to my, "If I, for instance, didn't like FPS in general, and only played a game for a few minutes, most people would disagree with me when I said that Half Life 2 sucked because all you did was point a mouse at things on a screen and click on them."

I think the general lesson is that Yahtzee shouldn't review a game he hates.
But then again I doubt The Escapist would let Yahtzee out of reviewing a major release like SSBB.

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