Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

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Hey, props to anyone who even TRIES to get through it. I was going for a bit of a parody and went a tad overboard. That, and I like to ramble.

I've always seen Stealth games as being restricted by the players self control. It is possible to get through all the levels of Hitman : Silent Assassin on the hardest diffulty by just shooting everything in sight. The difficulty doesn't refer to how hard it is to beat the game without stealth, but how much of a challenge it is with stealth. players use stealth becuase they want to, not because they have to.

I'm probably wrong though.

Ultrajoe:
true completely, every word he speaks.

But that doesn't stop MGS4 from being awesome out the ass.

Not every word. Just the ones about the story.

Bottom line:

Your all just way too impatient and you should have known better than to get an HK title, especially the LAST game in his MAIN series, and not expect that much sheer depth and detail. Seriously thats the thing that kills me. If people think a story is bad just because its deep and has alot of detail then thats your problem and I'm sorry but to paraphrase someone else who made a brilliant comment on here before its like buying Madden 08 and complaining that theirs too much focus on playing the football (Madden is football right?)

and Tempdude0, you have proven my point. As a MASSIVE Tolkien fangirl I have to say that having any issues with things being long and drawn out in those books is just... well let me put it this way, I doubt you would get though my favorite book, the Silmarillion. If you somehow did it would be by forcing yourself. I can't remember ANYTHING being tedious in any of Tolkiens work.

Yahtzee talks about Hideo Kojima as if he's just emerged. I wonder if he's aware that the man invented the Stealth genre, something Yahtzee himself has created games within.

yzzlthtz:

agerdemon:
Wow looks like its gonna be another 1000 threader. What I find funny is that yahtzee's points are always correct they just don't annoy other people. Thats why I think he is a great reviewer he tells us the points about it and allows us to make our own decision.

but his points in this review were 99% shallow and 98&% uninteresting with a 2% margin for error. can't all you fans just accept that?

Wow I never knew I represented the 'fans' of yahtzee, lol. His points aren't uninteresting I have never played MG4 but I agree about the ridiculous amount of dialogue as I have played the first two games. Also it shouldn't affect fans of Metal Gear series that badly, if you like the games get over what he has said about it doesn't affect your enjoyment. I like Bioshock but I don't hate Yahtzee for pointing out the bad points about it! Rant over.

My cousin bought a PS3 for MGS4 and loves it. I bought a 360 for Halo 3 and love it. He thinks Halo is FPS for retards I think MGS4 is a shitty blu-ray movie. Yet we still get along, don't see why others can't.

Too impatient again? That's your rallying cry Terra? Honestly. I just stated I read all of the LoTR books in a single setting. Name one activity that would take more patience and the ability to wait for a payoff. Well, without including reading The Silmarillian and The Hobbit in the same sitting in addition to the previously mentioned books. As for deep, you never commented on my brilliant masterpiece. I think my addition shows true depth, perhaps rivaling the writing skills Kojima himself.

That aside, you're a terrible troll. If you're going to even attempt to start crap at least work with points that can't be easily refuted. For instance, the Madden analogy is awful. Now, if you paid for madden and then got a team roster set up, got ready to play and then
were treated to an hour describing each players particular hight, weight, hair color, eye color, overall stats, what they tend to do in certain situations, what their favorite color is, their birthday, and their thoughts on life in general, then we could use that as a nice parallel.

Obscene amounts of information are neither needed nor add to the story. How about we have Snake going to buy groceries at one point while either he or a narrator describe each different item on the shelves. It doesn't make the scene more real, it makes it annoying unless they throw in a few references to things in the series or a couple of jokes. Even THEN it's going to border tedium unless they do something absolutely awesome.

Oh, and by your logic, I have the largest post containing the most writing, so I have the most well thought out arguments because I have more WORDS WORDS WORDS to back up what I'm saying which means it's good because more words means more good stuff and more good stuff means it's better and better things have more words....I could keep up the circular logic aaaaaallll day, it wouldn't make it any less retarded.

Howzabout this. You tell me why more words inherently makes a story more fleshed out. Why I need to know that a robot in the background during the scene where Luke is in the Bacta tank is an outdated stationary med droid and that the bipedal one next to it is one of the best money could buy, why knowing that Jabba's largest rival used to be a near corpulent Hutt that was poisoned by both Jabba and his uncle/aunt and that said poisoned hutts offspring Durga allied himself with the Black Sun crime syndicate and that this lead to the events of shadows of the empire is vital to understanding his character. Humor me by expounding on why knowing that Frodo's middle toe on his right foot had three hairs more than those of his other toes makes his character more real. Granted, I made that last one up, but nothing drives a point home like that particular level of absurdity.

Just as a tally, you have yet to say why:

1) The story isn't convoluted. I gave Revolver Ocelot as an example. Refute it, I dare you.

2) If the story is so bitchin' why doesn't it manage to capture our hearts and minds like that of the Lord of the Rings. Both are equally wordy, but I'm pretty sure most here could give a decent dissertation on the books. Why did THAT wordy come off as excellent and MGS's wordy come off as bloody annoying.

3) The 4e thing. It's the second to last paragraph. Just read it and respond. I'm not going to retype the important info again. You brought it up, so run with it.

4) As far as fans of Tolkien go, why is the Silmarillion considered painfully long and boring even by the most hardcore of fans, one of which I mentioned. The guy could go through the damn thing plot point by plot point and even HE said the book was balls...Though if that was the case I'm not sure why he read it so many times...Eh, fans. Whatareyagonnado?

5) A new point, do you think or just rephrase old posts? You have yet to address any points brought up by people except to make ad hominem attacks and point out they don't get it because they don't like it.

6) Oh, and detail does not make depth. Just because you pack as much information into a game/book/movie does not mean it gives it depth. It gives it info...That's it. It's the context of the information and the way in which it drives the player/reader/watcher to continue in their activity. To feel for the characters, to be in awe of the world around them, to drink in a rich setting, none of these require massive amounts of information, just the right amount to let us move around in it without being yanked back into reality. Take Neil Gaimans Sandman. Even by the end of the series we knew next to nothing about who Morpheus actually WAS as a being. That didn't make him a cardboard cutout. I'll even go so far as to say the raven in the books had as much characterization as Solid Snake. Yes, the BIRD managed to be on par with the main character of this series in terms of feelings associated with him. Three guesses which had more info to work with to make them more "real".

You see Shatnershaman, the reason for that is some people are twats who can't realize that different people enjoy different things. That comprehension of a subject does not denote love of it and lack of love does not denote lack of comprehension. They further cannot understand that you can love something even if it has flaws, even flaws so glaring as to turn others away from the series.

Apparently I lack the ability to converse outside of "rant mode"...huh.

I wonder how many people predicted this so called "review". I mean we all knew that Yahtzee, would give MGS4 the shitty stuff, beacuse: A. He only enjoys pointless FPS shooters like Serious Sam, the 1st Doom's and the bloody Painkiller series. and B. He despises games witch have to much story line.

Now I actually don't see the point in bitching around the "story telling" thing, beacuse that's what most games concetrate on, to give the player the "immersion", if the writers would stop doing that, then we would get dumb an pointless shit witch we could desribe with a two word's and not even playing the game, and the word would be "arcade shooter"; beacuse thoes games never had much story telling or anything. The 2nd thing is that MGS mostly uses story telling so the player could get interested, that's what made the series so popular in the 1st, place the unuqioe charcters and story telling. Plus we're forgetting that MGS4 is the end of the saga, so naturally it would be predictable that there would be allot of referance to the previous games, plus allot of cutscenes.

But still, bitching about such stuff as "to much story telling" or even "cutscenes" is the same thing is bitching bout a midget for been to short. He did't give us any good points an simply bashed the game (predictable thing) like he did with SSBB, so there wasn't much to expect. The review didn't give me a chuckel or even laugh, it was just another simple bashing of a game series Yahtzee despises, and will probably end in more "Yahtzee fans" vs "Yahtzee haters or fan boys" or in another mail bag showdown. Witch ever comes first. But since Yahtzee is a harsh game critic, who doesn't take any mercy on games, it'll be another pointless battle

@TerraMPG: Just one question, and then I'll most likely shut up:

Have you even read ANY of my comments on your rants? Even one?

conqueror Kenny:
Is it me or are the long cut scenes shippable? Alot of moaning about something fixed easily.

I imagine they are but then you're skipping out on what is supposed to make the game worth playing. The story. Also I say supposed to make it worth playing. I lost interest in the MGS series about 3 hours into #2 on my PS2.

So basically there's an abundance of bad writing, not enough stealthing, an abundance of bad writing, tedious controls for the action parts, did I mention an abundance of bad writing?
Yahtzee made that pretty clear, I think something like 4/5 of the entire review was about the incredible amount of endless badly written cutscenes.

I've never been into stealth games, the main reason being I haven't found one yet that doesn't have incredibly tedious controls. I like stealthing in FPS games, though, becouse the controls aren't as bad to do things you didn't meant to do (for example in Splinter Cell, dropping a stone you were holding instead of putting a knife in the guard's back) or not do things you wanted to do (in Hitman I often wanted to strangle a guard, but the buttons didn't work properly so I just kept walking until I bumped into him and was greeted by half a clip of SMG bullets). Tedious controls is what ruins games for me most of the time, so I won't bother with this game (not that I needed further confirmaiton for that).

Kanashe:
I wonder how many people predicted this so called "review". I mean we all knew that Yahtzee, would give MGS4 the shitty stuff, beacuse: A. He only enjoys pointless FPS shooters like Serious Sam, the 1st Doom's and the bloody Painkiller series. and B. He despises games witch have to much story line.

Now I actually don't see the point in bitching around the "story telling" thing, beacuse that's what most games concetrate on, to give the player the "immersion", if the writers would stop doing that, then we would get dumb an pointless shit witch we could desribe with a two word's and not even playing the game, and the word would be "arcade shooter"; beacuse thoes games never had much story telling or anything. The 2nd thing is that MGS mostly uses story telling so the player could get interested, that's what made the series so popular in the 1st, place the unuqioe charcters and story telling. Plus we're forgetting that MGS4 is the end of the saga, so naturally it would be predictable that there would be allot of referance to the previous games, plus allot of cutscenes.

But still, bitching about such stuff as "to much story telling" or even "cutscenes" is the same thing is bitching bout a midget for been to short. He did't give us any good points an simply bashed the game (predictable thing) like he did with SSBB, so there wasn't much to expect. The review didn't give me a chuckel or even laugh, it was just another simple bashing of a game series Yahtzee despises, and will probably end in more "Yahtzee fans" vs "Yahtzee haters or fan boys" or in another mail bag showdown. Witch ever comes first. But since Yahtzee is a harsh game critic, who doesn't take any mercy on games, it'll be another pointless battle

Correction: He bashed the game for having too much BAD writing. Now, I can't really give you my own opinion on it, since I've never actually played the game and what I've seen didn't look that bad, that's just what Yahtzee was saying. Besides, it's a game! Yahtzee enjoys interactive storytelling, not games where it's just laid out in front of you (see the 'The World Ends With You' review). This is like a game where half of it is a real-time rendered war movie with a bit of actual gameplay in between, just to shake things up a little.

This is a GAME. PLAYING THE GAME is what it's about, hence I think GAMEPLAY is the most important in a game, not just staring at pretty graphics. Why do you think Star Craft is still one of the most popular games of all time?

I can agree that this wasn't his funniest review of all time, but you can't say he's simply bashing the game because he dislikes storylines.

I don't get how he "fucking loved killer7" yet doesn't get the story of MGS. Killer7 was very confusing and took some thought to get the story at all. Way more thought than MGS IMO.

BTW, How is MGS badly written?

Normally I love to hear his reviews and get a good laugh even on the games I do like Smash bros. Halo 3, GTA4 etc. But this review was to the first one that actually pissed me off.

Yeah I found the review to a bit overly harsh on the game.

TerraMGP:
Bottom line:

Your all just way too impatient and you should have known better than to get an HK title, especially the LAST game in his MAIN series, and not expect that much sheer depth and detail. Seriously thats the thing that kills me. If people think a STORY is bad just because its deep and has alot of detail then thats your problem and I'm sorry but to paraphrase someone else who made a brilliant comment on here before its like buying Madden 08 and complaining that theirs too much focus on playing the football (Madden is football right?)

</FAIL.>

The STORY isn't bad. But do you go to buy MGS4 at Target and look for it in the STORY section?... No. But if you actually do, then speak no further, we have identified how you could be so confused and misguided.

You pick up MGS4 in the GAME section. You pay for the GAME because you want to interact with it... control it... manipulate it. Have you ever tried manipulating movies at the theater, or books while you're reading them? It doesn't work. Fortunately, that's where an entirely separate INTERACTIVE entertainment steps in: GAMES.

Since you buy a game to interact with it, cinematic-length cut scenes can very much prohibit you from being able to do that... I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp and comprehend. You can't fault people for wanting something in the interactive entertainment industry to be inherently interactive.

z121231211:
BTW, How is MGS badly written?

Oh let me count the ways...

SPOILERS FOR ALL OF THE METAL GEAR GAMES!

1) Excessively words dialogue that repeats information over and over.

2) Conspiracies for the sake of conspiracies and conspiracies inside of conspiracies. Honestly, the "9/11 was a cover up" and fake moon landing nutjobs are poking fun at Kojima.

3) Inconsistency. The plot changes so much from game to game that retcons are necessary for every event. "Big Boss lost his eye in the 80s", "Ocelot is working for the president", "No wait, Ocelot is working for the Patriots", "The Patriots are A.I.s who magically grew out of our government but really died 100 years ago", "Big Boss lost his eye in the 60s", "Ocelot was working for the Philosophers", "Ocelot is possessed by Liquid's arm", "The American Philosophers became the Patriots", "Ocelot is a Patriot", "Nope, Ocelot is working against the Patriots", "The Patriots are really Big Boss and friends who are trying to create a new world order because they hate what the Philosophers did", "The Patriots are really A.I.s (again) who were created by Zero in the 90s or possibly early 2000s", "Ocelot isn't really possessed by Liquid's arm, losing his mind was all a clever tactic".

ARGH!

By the way, don't get me started on dominant and recessive genes or the other horribly bad science we see throughout the series.

The fact isn't that there's storytelling an immersion. The fact is this game goes nuts with info. Storytelling is a good thing provided the writer has at least a little restraint or the ability to toss copious amounts of data at us without it becoming an exercise in tedium. The MGS series has an issue with both. Kojima can paint a brilliant world and mold a truly heart wrenching story, but it's somewhat undercut by the fact that so much is added. Take the scene at the end of MGS 3. That should be how all cutscenes go. Well, not all, but you get my point. Important information all the way through with emphasis placed where it needed to be to really hammer home the point, but not so much as to beat it into the audience. The visuals and the music accompany said writing in such a way that all three blend together to create a stunning effect, so much so the simple salute at the end and the haunting melody bring even the most hardened of hearts to tears.

This is the problem people have with the new game. It doesn't establish a balance between the three, or even attempts to tone down the writing, it just tosses info about willy nilly in an attempt to wrap everything up. In fact I can almost guarantee that if the cutscenes had at least a little editing and trimming and the extra fluff was relegated to the comm system that more people would be touting it as amazing.

And yes, there is such a thing as "too much story telling." If a story is about Bob and you suddenly go into a tangent about Bobs cousin Jim who like to ride motorcycles and wore a faded denim jacket with one arm missing, who's actions involving a python and a tube stake ran out of control and resulted in the scar on Bobs left ear...Well, you see how it gets? Extra info is nice, yes, but at a certain point it has to be relegated to it's place as EXTRA (superfluous) information, not given a starring role.

References to previous games are also just fine, provided you know what to reference and when. It's again, a balancing act. If you can't tell, I love the hell out of MGS 3, but it failed to balance some of it's writing as well. It segued into WORDS WORDS WORDS every once in a while with the only thing to break up the uninteresting and pointless ranting being the ability to change to first person point of view...Though I give them credit where it's due. The scenes with the Sorrow and the countdown, they were funny. I half expected him to just get a huge grin while pointing to Snake and then to the bomb timer, silently mouthing "Neener neener neener, you're going to get blown up." or something to that extent.

Oh, and some arcade shooters manage to have a decent story. See Time Splitters. The last one, while goofy as hell, managed to give a feel for Cortez. It's not brilliant writing, but it's enough to give him some personality and bring him to the point where he's less the guy holding the guns and more of a person. I realize the game t'ain't that great, but I do love me some good old fashioned crazy shootin' action with oddball characters. That's neither here nor there though.

This is the first time I actually got round to watching the review what with my girlfriend selling her brain for strawberry shortcake and constant worry, as well as actualy playing MGS4 when real life isnt beating me the stick of sickening disspointment.

This review was excellent, I enjoyed it alot and cant wait till next Wedensday! I'm currently enjoying MGS4, and I sort of get whats happening :P It really is frigging bananas.

I have a pounding headche so I'll leave it there.

Also I'm a little ashamed to say this is turning into another SSBB! What the hell guys? We're PS3 gamers, we don't stoop to the level of complaining in long overly verbose honestly painful to read articles on points no one cares about do we?! Seriously I am bloody ashamed, some most of these posts are as long as a chapter of a very boring book. Good God, go play MGO...

Tempdude0:
The scenes with the Sorrow and the countdown, they were funny. I half expected him to just get a huge grin while pointing to Snake and then to the bomb timer, silently mouthing "Neener neener neener, you're going to get blown up." or something to that extent.

Wow, I interpreted those scenes completely differently. I saw it as the Sorrow warning Snake that he was running out of time. That may be because I didn't really see the Sorrow as an antagonist in that game but more as a neutral party.

Tempdude0 you totally missed my point. The lord of the rings is not 'trying', at least not in my opinion. Ive read though them all in one sittng many times, I know plenty of other people who have too. Tolkien is not trying hes GRIPPING. but as I said try reading though the Silmarillion, or better yet go read the brothers Karamazov. The whole point is you talk about LotR as if its a CHORE. Your only showing that you CAN read though it like that, not that you enjoy sitting there and reading though it all.

But yes this was Hideos Silmarillion so to speak. This was the be all end all of his work. Granted Tolkiens son assembled the Silmarillion from his notes, but thats not the point. People think its too much storytelling beacuse they don't understand, or perhaps don't care how intricate the man is. He's detail oriented. The whole intention of this game was to tie up all the loose ends. Again its like saying any number of books would be 'bad' because they go into more detail and more character development than the usual novel. Its not bad writing to have detail on that level so much as it is HARD TO UNDERSTAND, its challenging. Its not all just spoon fed to you or even handed out moderately with a fast enough pace to keep action up. Its a harder, but far more rewarding experience just like reading really dry, detailed books that are well written. Lord of the rings is not dry, and while briliant does not have an over-abundance of detail and backstory. I don't think that the problem is bad storytelling, I think that the problem is at best a lack of interest in the reader/viewer and an inability to see the effort/reward ratio as being more reward because for you the work is far too great. If so thats fine, its like disliking a book thats well written because its too long or has too much character development. Nothing wrong with that, just don't accuse it of having bad writing people.

You don't seem to get the point.

Yes, Detail, character development et al are good. Very good, in fact. But detail and story is only half. The other half is how the story and details are PRESENTED. And that's done badly in the Silmarillion and seemingly badly in MGS4. It seems you've got a higher threshold for crappy writing (NOT content, mind!), but a) condemning Yahtzee for being hypocritical when his writing is better is simply wrong. That is not saying his Storyline or attention to detail are better, but his telling seems to be. And b) all of this doesn't make the telling in MGS better. Yes, it may be the Epitome of Kojimas writing, and yes, maybe his story and attention to detail are great, though that would depend on ones taste, but the objective part, the WAY OF TELLING the story, is simply bad.

mspencer82:

z121231211:
BTW, How is MGS badly written?

Oh let me count the ways...

SPOILERS FOR ALL OF THE METAL GEAR GAMES!

1) Excessively words dialogue that repeats information over and over.

2) Conspiracies for the sake of conspiracies and conspiracies inside of conspiracies. Honestly, the "9/11 was a cover up" and fake moon landing nutjobs are poking fun at Kojima.

3) Inconsistency. The plot changes so much from game to game that retcons are necessary for every event. "Big Boss lost his eye in the 80s", "Ocelot is working for the president", "No wait, Ocelot is working for the Patriots", "The Patriots are A.I.s who magically grew out of our government but really died 100 years ago", "Big Boss lost his eye in the 60s", "Ocelot was working for the Philosophers", "Ocelot is possessed by Liquid's arm", "The American Philosophers became the Patriots", "Ocelot is a Patriot", "Nope, Ocelot is working against the Patriots", "The Patriots are really Big Boss and friends who are trying to create a new world order because they hate what the Philosophers did", "The Patriots are really A.I.s (again) who were created by Zero in the 90s or possibly early 2000s", "Ocelot isn't really possessed by Liquid's arm, losing his mind was all a clever tactic".

ARGH!

By the way, don't get me started on dominant and recessive genes or the other horribly bad science we see throughout the series.

I'm a fan of the Metal Gear Series and I can't argue with those points, mspencer has the series pegged. Though personally I love the BAD SCIENCE in Metal Gear Games, as I always saw them as more Anime/Science-Fiction than as Hard Military Espionage.

Whoracle:
You don't seem to get the point.

Yes, Detail, character development et al are good. Very good, in fact. But detail and story is only half. The other half is how the story and details are PRESENTED. And that's done badly in the Silmarillion and seemingly badly in MGS4. It seems you've got a higher threshold for crappy writing (NOT content, mind!), but a) condemning Yahtzee for being hypocritical when his writing is better is simply wrong. That is not saying his Storyline or attention to detail are better, but his telling seems to be. And b) all of this doesn't make the telling in MGS better. Yes, it may be the Epitome of Kojimas writing, and yes, maybe his story and attention to detail are great, though that would depend on ones taste, but the objective part, the WAY OF TELLING the story, is simply bad.

The fact that ANYONE can think that its done badly in the Silmarillion.... I'm done with this conversation. To call that crappy writing, seriously that is just wrong. The Silmarillion is an AMAZING book that does a wonderful job of telling its story. Its not bad because your looking at it in the wrong way, its not a conventional story that just hands you all the info off the bat. I think thats the problem here, people are confusing unconventional storytelling, more detailed and elaborate and complex story telling with bad story telling. I seriously don't understand how you could ever, EVER consider the Silmarillion bad writing but whatever causes that is probably why people don't like the MGS story.

TerraMGP (Pants-on-head-retarded):
People think its too much storytelling beacuse they don't understand, or perhaps don't care how intricate the man is. He's detail oriented. The whole intention of this game was to tie up all the loose ends.

</RE-fail>

Let me stop you right there professor... People say it's too much storytelling because they don't WANT or NEED to understand; because:
A. They want to PLAY the GAME already,
B. The "detailed" information was already referenced and belabored 49,637.2 times already, or
C. All of the above.

You can still have a game that is detailed oriented that does not remove you from being IN the game, and instead leave you being a helpless observer of a cinematic cut-scene. That's like going to read a book and the entire book is pictures. You want to CREATE the pictures in your head, not have them spelled out for you, eliminating the need for you imagination.

If you liked the previous MGS's, and you're an OCD information-whore, then great; I'm sure this was right up your alley.

But since a lot of people haven't, and we're still allowed to hold games accountable to their individual merits regardless what "series" they're apart of--since they are all still GAMES at their core--then you'll just have to forgive the majority of people for basing it against the very medium it claims to be a part of.

I feel as though someone else already said this though, like the person who created the video you've been brainlessly commenting on for the past few days... so I'm not sure why I'm trying too :(

If you just want to play the game you should have bought another game, and if you can't understand why details are repeated in the series then frankly your not paying close enough attention. The problem is that people see these 'merits' as things held against COMMON games. This is part of a series. Its like picking up the last book in a series that has a writing style you don't like and complaining that the story is bad because you don't understand it and you think plot points are repeated way too much. In the end I think the problem is with people having too narrow a view of what video games should be and lacking an appreciation for the writing.

As for why your trying, I think its because your too dense to realize your wrong.

TerraMGP:
...if you can't understand why details are repeated in the series then frankly your not paying close enough attention...

Amazing. Truly, amazing.

Look, anyone who thinks the writing is that bad will never enjoy it and should never have gotten it anyways, and they should know this from the previous three games. If you don't do your homework before you get a game its your fault for getting one you don't like, and if you really think that the writing is bad again you probably think the Silmarillion is bad and I frankly don't feel the need to defend myself to anyone who can't at least respect that literary gem. As for the parallels to Yatzees writing, if you honestly can't see them by this point your just not paying attention, and if your trying to justify it as "well they were adventure games" your just too freaking narrow minded about games.

brice85:

TerraMGP (Pants-on-head-retarded):
People think its too much storytelling beacuse they don't understand, or perhaps don't care how intricate the man is. He's detail oriented. The whole intention of this game was to tie up all the loose ends.

</RE-fail>

Let me stop you right there professor... People say it's too much storytelling because they don't WANT or NEED to understand; because:
A. They want to PLAY the GAME already,
B. The "detailed" information was already referenced and belabored 49,637.2 times already, or
C. All of the above.

You can still have a game that is detailed oriented that does not remove you from being IN the game, and instead leave you being a helpless observer of a cinematic cut-scene. That's like going to read a book and the entire book is pictures. You want to CREATE the pictures in your head, not have them spelled out for you, eliminating the need for you imagination.

If you liked the previous MGS's, and you're an OCD information-whore, then great; I'm sure this was right up your alley.

But since a lot of people haven't, and we're still allowed to hold games accountable to their individual merits regardless what "series" they're apart of--since they are all still GAMES at their core--then you'll just have to forgive the majority of people for basing it against the very medium it claims to be a part of.

I feel as though someone else already said this though, like the person who created the video you've been brainlessly commenting on for the past few days... so I'm not sure why I'm trying too :(

Listen ya want GAME PLAY then go an play Painkiller or Serious Sam. It'll give enough game play for your dried up brain, MGS focuses on story telling an plot twists, that what makes it original an unique. If we wanted just game play, we could get pointless shit like Splinter Cell, or the pointless FPS shooters

KIFulgore:
Great review... basically everything I thought would be wrong with MGS4 (or at least could be better).

Now about the Ninja Gaiden 2 trailer, did they *really* use that fucking CCHHJJJJUUURRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! scream you hear in every cheesy B-movie, shitty game, and horror movie trailer ever created??

You mean the 'CCHHJJJJUUURRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!' that was originally, as far as I know, used in Starcraft? Which everyone knows is a 'shitty game'.

TerraMGP:
The fact that ANYONE can think that its done badly in the Silmarillion.... I'm done with this conversation. To call that crappy writing, seriously that is just wrong. The Silmarillion is an AMAZING book that does a wonderful job of telling its story. Its not bad because your looking at it in the wrong way, its not a conventional story that just hands you all the info off the bat. I think thats the problem here, people are confusing unconventional storytelling, more detailed and elaborate and complex story telling with bad story telling. I seriously don't understand how you could ever, EVER consider the Silmarillion bad writing but whatever causes that is probably why people don't like the MGS story.

OK, here's the deal. When I get back tonight, I'll post you the commonly, world-wide accepted writing guidelines and show you, how the Silmarillion won't fit. And, to make my point perfectly clear: IT's storyline is great. It really is. But nothing more.

I realize the book does not fit convention but its still good. Sometimes the best works are those that break conventions. It does not technically fit the monomyth but it does not have to. Why is it so hard to understand strict adherence to the norm is not always best?

what's funny is that I think that the people who are agreeing with yahtzee are people who were never really into the series, which would explain the lackluster review. I think he just got so confused, but didn't want anyone to be butthurt, that he sort of half-assed trying to learn the game's intricacies.

But on the other hand, I think its also a candid view of what it must be like for someone that may purchase MGS4 because of whatever reason, and be totally baffled by not only the controls, but the story as well.

I think many of the people here though are complaining about the story, and are doing so in part because Yatzee said he does not like it. Its a sad sad day when people treat Yatzee in the same manner as the mainstream reviewers and shape their opinions around what he says rather than thinking for themselves, which was kind of the reason he started this whole review thing, breaking conventions and getting to the brass tacks.

The game's O.K. The cutscenes are a pain if you're not part of the MGS bandwagon, so if you haven't played any other MGS games before, you'll be bored to death with the hour long cutscenes.

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