Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

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Seeing a game like this makes me pine for the times when John Carmack's statement about video game plots had a sound foundation in fact.

Roblin:

Jumplion:

mspencer82:
I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

I'm not sure about this, but i think that some of the people couldn't say "Patriots" or "Philosiphors" (nanomachines i think) so they resorted to saying La Li Lu Le Lo. Not sure if that's entierly true or true at all.

Awkward if your an american football fan.

Oh how witty. That joke certainly hasn't been made over 50,000 times already, you are surely the first.
/sarcasm

Seperot:
Honestly while it was a enjoyable review, i feel it falls into the same trap that SSBB review did.

The problem is when Yahtzee resigns himself to play a game he has no real liking in it shows in the review

Well... yes... I believe that this is largely the point, he takes what he doesn't like about a game and presents it to the world for the steaming pile of bullshit he believes it to be. The trouble is us, the viewing public... I would rather jam rusty needles into my bone-marrow than see the state of Yahtzee's e-mail client prior to this review. It must have been similar to the opening week of WOW (everyone scrabbling for names of main characters in the Warcraft series and not being able to run down a main street without spotting an @rtI-I@s or something coming the other way) only this time reading more alond the lines of: MGS4; Metal Gear Please!; MGS4tw! ad infinitum. surely we should be allowed more leeway in his selection of games (although I myself was praying for him to rip the guts out of this game... MGS has never been a GOOD series)

imPacT31:

Roblin:

Jumplion:

mspencer82:
I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

I'm not sure about this, but i think that some of the people couldn't say "Patriots" or "Philosiphors" (nanomachines i think) so they resorted to saying La Li Lu Le Lo. Not sure if that's entierly true or true at all.

Awkward if your an american football fan.

People under the direct control of the Patriots, via nanomachines, were unable to refer to the Patriots. Their nanomachines forced them to say La Li Lu Le Lo instead.

No idea where the phrase itself originates though.

I don't think it forces them to say anything else, it stops them from saying it. In what manner, I dunno, but they just can't say it. Instead, they use the codeword. Much like stealth swearing, really.

I keep saying, Tommy boy, La li Lu Le Lo.... come on people

Indigo_Dingo:

mspencer82:
I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

Every time the words La Li Lu Le Lo have been said, it was used in the context of one character talking about the Patriots, but not saying that word. We're all just assumed to fill in the blanks. Personally, I got it when the Marine captain first said it.

I'd forgotten that Dolph says it when Ocelot mentions the Patriots. I always thought it was just another name for them until I found out certain people were compelled to say it to keep the Patriots secret. I was more curious about why they chose "La Li Lu Le Lo" specifically.

Really saying "the Patriots" is less suspicious, but what do I know? I'm not part of a shadowy group that controls the government.

Because to lead a shadow government you have to like tommy boy.

Has anyone else who's participated in this thread looked at the 20+ pages it's grown to and thought about letting out a little "I'm sorry"?

No? Just me?... continue then.

GeeDave:
Has anyone else who's participated in this thread looked at the 20+ pages it's grown to and thought about letting out a little "I'm sorry"?

No? Just me?... continue then.

There's nothing like a healthy, civilized, argument for the sake of arguing.

There's nothing like a healthy, civilized, argument for the sake of arguing.

I disagree!

*argument*

*mild insult*

*seemingly random comment that i'll need to edit out later*

no arguement there

GeeDave:

There's nothing like a healthy, civilized, argument for the sake of arguing.

I disagree!

*argument*

*mild insult*

*seemingly random comment that i'll need to edit out later*

I said civilized, not miniturized version of XBL.

If you really think something is wrong with it don't post, just like I do post because I get annoyed that people say its bad writing when many of them seem to have no basis other than its long and they don't like long drawn out writing.

I said civilized

Hence the very first line "I disagree"... ah well, wasted humour! :p

mspencer82:

Indigo_Dingo:

mspencer82:
I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

Every time the words La Li Lu Le Lo have been said, it was used in the context of one character talking about the Patriots, but not saying that word. We're all just assumed to fill in the blanks. Personally, I got it when the Marine captain first said it.

I'd forgotten that Dolph says it when Ocelot mentions the Patriots. I always thought it was just another name for them until I found out certain people were compelled to say it to keep the Patriots secret. I was more curious about why they chose "La Li Lu Le Lo" specifically.

Really saying "the Patriots" is less suspicious, but what do I know? I'm not part of a shadowy group that controls the government.

Well yes, but Patriots sounds sinister, while La Li Lu Le Lo sounds ridiculous, and is more likely to be dismissed as ravings of a madman. Stems from the theory that 3/4 of all conspiracy theories are invented to discredit the other quarter by stigma of being a conspiracy theory, and being associated with insane stuff involving moon bases.

brazuca:
Hey!!! MGS series is the Matrix of video games. You just need open your mind. Yes I would vote in Kojima for President!

Yeah except the matrix was good

It couldn't have been said any better then that.

Anoos:

brazuca:
Hey!!! MGS series is the Matrix of video games. You just need open your mind. Yes I would vote in Kojima for President!

Yeah except the matrix was good

You're right. Its more like the 2001 : A Space Oddysey of games, in that its fucking superb

To Mspencer, I don't mean he wanted Snake to get blown up, it was more of a buddy egging you on kind of thing. His intent wasn't for Snake to know he was going to die, just that it was going to be a pain to get out of it. I realize I may be the only one with that interpretation but the Sorrow seemed to want to help Snake through most of the game, and the way he always had a little smile as he held up signs made it seem like he knew how things were going to turn out and was amused by the whole ordeal.

Uh, and To Terra, you realize I said PARTS were trying. If I didn't enjoy the books reading them would be kind of pointless...And once again, I understand completely, I just dislike it. I don't care about half the fluff because once a characters motivations have been established we don't need some twit of a writer beating those same motivations into our head fifteen more times...Oh, and for the record, the Silmarillion seems fairly straightforward once you know what it's about. Both it, the LoTR books and the MGS series all can be followed with relative ease. They just tend to go off into nonsense world and dick around with details they've already established for a little while so they can be DEEP AND MEANINGFUL! which is where the confusion comes in. The onslaught of information just seems like an over excited child had a good idea and is trying desperately to inform you of it while stringing together new ideas they're having as they speak. The ideas may have merit, but their presentation is wanting in the extreme.

Oh yeah, and "Its like picking up the last book in a series that has a writing style you don't like and complaining that the story is bad because you don't understand it and you think plot points are repeated way too much." Hey, if it's for people who are fans, they already know those plot points and don't need them shoved in their face again. Imagine picking up Return of the king and finding it comprised of 1/3rd the first and 1/3 the second book with only the last third filled with new information. "We've read the books, we know these things. Why is the author going over them again for those of us who know and love the series?" Behold the breakdown of logic. If it's "For the fans" then you don't need to re-tread ground they already know, and if you're re-treading said ground and same said fans are annoyed it's not due to lack of understanding.

And what of those of us who liked the previous games, but are irked by the new ones? Where's the consistency in your argument then? Some liked the earlier ones but are put off by this one, so your "You don't get it, not fans, blah blah blah" argument falls apart again.

...Wait, our problem is that we want "punchy" writing. As in, writing that grips us and doesn't let us go, writing that drives us to continue reading, that gives us emotional investments in characters, that's our problem? So our problem is that we want writing that's good...ow, my logic.

And Ocelot, again, was hypnotizing himself and using nanobots. I almost could have accepted the "Son of the Sorrow" angle, but the actual explanation is so hokey I'm surprised people aren't forced to do a jig while explaining it.

The reason it's hard to accept these things is because...Wait, I think I could actually get into that. A copy clerk you say? It sounds fun, almost lighthearted. If that was the tone of MGS than all criticisms would be rendered for the most part invalid. "It's just a dopey game, lol." would work as defense just as it did for Duke Nukem and Serious Sam. The tone of the writing sets us up for how much is believable. If it's a SUPER CEREAL realistic game we have less tolerance for deus ex machina also known as "I can't be arsed to figure out how crap works." If it's lighthearted we let it slide because it's not meant to be thought about. You either have to think about something and force it to adhere to standards or let the crap hit the fan and say it's not a game to be thought about. They are for the most part mutually exclusive ways of writing.

I love this comment, "If you really think something is wrong with it don't post, just like I do post because I get annoyed that people say its bad writing when many of them seem to have no basis other than its long and they don't like long drawn out writing."

Here, I've got one as well. "If you really think something is right with it, don't post, just like I do post because I get annoyed that people say it's good writing when many of them seem to have no basis other that it's long and they like long drawn out writing."

So, you going to answer my itemized list or what, Terra? Just curious.

Rant ahoy!

Halo 3 Comments [414]
MGS4 Comments [727]
SSBB Comments [1181]

El oh el, fanboys...

I remember playing the GC version of MGS1 since it was cheap, and wanted to know what it was about. I have to say most of it kept me up at night trying to sort out everything, but with the fake deaths of the main villain, as well as other stuff thrown at me. What erked me the most however was Snake was doing all those crazy finishing moves after I killed the boss (much like Dante May Cry does, it's really annoying) it just robs the feeling I did something, when it could just skip the whole fight for that scene.

This is why I would get a PS3 for Final Fantasy more than this game, while the story is nice, I can't help to think they could just slap it on a DVD and sell it as a movie. Why even remake the game if most of the game is movie to begin with?

Though by far worse game to do this was (at least) first Xenosaga... or maybe not as bad as this game though.

I would however like to see how the series will pan out from here, maybe cross over with "Metal Slug?" >:P

Fun review as always, just thought to add.

I was waiting for someone to take that crap serise down a peg. GOOD JOB!!

Why can we hide from guards by falling asleep in a box??????

TerraMGP:
If you really think something is wrong with it don't post, just like I do post because I get annoyed that people say its bad writing when many of them seem to have no basis other than its long and they don't like long drawn out writing.

You say that like this is a youtube video praising the MGS series. You know? "if you dont like it whyed you watch it."

but its quite the opposite its actually a video about how much someone disliked the game. So maybe since you clearly are a fanboy who disliked liked you maybe YOU should gtfo and stfu.

First off, acronyms make you sound like an idiot. Second I'm a girl, THIRD I'm not talking about the video at this point but the game itself. Ive said what I have to say about Yatzee and best case scenario he is just trying to stir up fan Ire. I'm talking about the greater point that nobody has REALLY backed up the bad writing other than to say in more fanciful terms that its writing they don't like. See?

TerraMGP:
FUHFKADH KAJHD FKHG AKSJH KFHAOUF YHASIUFH ASKJFH ALSKUF HALUFH ASLKDFH AKLSJFH LAKSDJHF ALKUH ALKUFH ASKLDJ HFLKJDF GHDKGH x 9000000000000

Did the Trilby games ever waste your play time repeating the same bullshit, or restating completely obvious bullshit you could see or figure out yourself, or dumping irrelevant non-plot-advancing bullshit on you that you could look up if you really cared about, just so they could claim to keep you occupied longer?

But you see lori Branford, that just makes the story sooooooo much more interesting and DEEP! and if you don't get why it's there then you just can't comprehend comprehend things. Even if you understand them your dislike of said extra information makes you an r-tard because any smart person LOOOVES all the extra information regardless of how badly it's shoehorned into areas it shouldn't be. That's what makes it such good writing.

As for TerraMGP, I'm sorry, all I heard was "Blah blah blah I refuse to actually respond to what people say blah blah blah" The girl thing is irrelevant unless you're one of those crazies that would prefer "fanperson", and you've yet to back up why Metal Gear Solid 4 is GOOD. This isn't show and tell time where we assume everything is unicorns and faeries and delicious candy. This is real life, where 99% of the shite out on the market is just that, shit. We don't normally assume something is good and work from there, we assume it's terrible and wait for it to change our minds.

I also see you still have yet to respond to the list or any points given by the people before you...Quick question, do you even read any of what people have stated or are you just so piss poor at reading comprehension that you can't form a decent argument to counter their points?

Which reminds me, I find your statement on acronyms to be amusing considering you referred to "Lord of the Rings" as LotR. Ah, blatant stupidity warms the heart.

With that, I'll leave you with a quote that's quite applicable considering your lack of cohesion between posts. I'd say it could apply to my posts as well, but at least I manage to keep my thoughts in line with each other.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."

TerraMGP:
First off, acronyms make you sound like an idiot. Second I'm a girl, THIRD I'm not talking about the video at this point but the game itself. Ive said what I have to say about Yatzee and best case scenario he is just trying to stir up fan Ire. I'm talking about the greater point that nobody has REALLY backed up the bad writing other than to say in more fanciful terms that its writing they don't like. See?

lol no such thing as girls on the interbutts.

girls = guys.
little kids = FBI angents.

YYZed:

TerraMGP:
First off, acronyms make you sound like an idiot. Second I'm a girl, THIRD I'm not talking about the video at this point but the game itself. Ive said what I have to say about Yatzee and best case scenario he is just trying to stir up fan Ire. I'm talking about the greater point that nobody has REALLY backed up the bad writing other than to say in more fanciful terms that its writing they don't like. See?

lol no such thing as girls on the interbutts.

girls = guys.
little kids = FBI angents.

Yahtzee claimed the bad writing on Fullyramblomatic by claiming that the scene wherein Raiden is reunited with his faithful wife, serving almost as a reward for all his work - for Snake, for EVA, for the good of mankind - is indicative of a poor writing style. No comment.

Good as always and surprisingly acurate or so it seems to me with most of the reveiws so far. Ive never played metal gear solid 4, ive only played numero uno and the only thing i did was kick people down the stairs. Even though i will never get this game and will never get a PS3 its difficult to figure out which games actually are worth getting for the other consoles. The only ones that seemed clear to me are portal, cod 4 and pychonaughts although im probably not paying enough attention.

Looking foward to the next reveiw.

Spot on about the exposition-heavy writing style. Sadly, a lot of anime suffers from this, as anyone who's seen Ghost In The Shell or Appleseed will know. XXX yawnography.

Indigo_Dingo:
Yahtzee claimed the bad writing on Fullyramblomatic by claiming that the scene wherein Raiden is reunited with his faithful wife, serving almost as a reward for all his work - for Snake, for EVA, for the good of mankind - is indicative of a poor writing style. No comment.

THE PATRIOTS!

I must applaud you guys, 22 pages already is quite impressive.

Fire Daemon:

Indigo_Dingo:
Yahtzee claimed the bad writing on Fullyramblomatic by claiming that the scene wherein Raiden is reunited with his faithful wife, serving almost as a reward for all his work - for Snake, for EVA, for the good of mankind - is indicative of a poor writing style. No comment.

THE PATRIOTS!

So, the idea that a greatly powerful shadow organisation might just use a mans Wife and child to manipulate him into working for them, when they were already in his head, when they already did it to great success, is bad writing? Huh?

I'd say this shit is becoming somewhat bananas... some of us like MGS4, some of us don't and some of us, myself included, wish Hideo Kojima would insert his head up the anus of the nearest donkey... I guess some conflicts will never be resolved, especially on Internet forums.

Indigo_Dingo:

Fire Daemon:

Indigo_Dingo:
Yahtzee claimed the bad writing on Fullyramblomatic by claiming that the scene wherein Raiden is reunited with his faithful wife, serving almost as a reward for all his work - for Snake, for EVA, for the good of mankind - is indicative of a poor writing style. No comment.

THE PATRIOTS!

So, the idea that a greatly powerful shadow organisation might just use a mans Wife and child to manipulate him into working for them, when they were already in his head, when they already did it to great success, is bad writing? Huh?

I can't believe Yahtzee emphasized the Patriots angle more than the decyborgification. I suppose at this point in the series we've all just automatically accepted that anything that's implausible can be explained with the phrase "nano machines did it" and we move on.

Mailbag...showdown...sense...tingling....

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