Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . . . 31 NEXT
 

EDIT: First I have to say that I loved Yahtzee's review, but it's almost a non-review! The rants about the story were spot on, but the part about the gameplay is so wrong I feel like we weren't even playing the same game. Here's my take on it:

Anybody who is going into MGS4 cold may as well just skip all the cutscenes. My girlfriend played it, and although she had no idea of what was going on, she enjoyed the gameplay. It caters to many different kinds of people, and gave me the impression of Resident Evil 4 meets Thief when I first played it. Of course, you could take the FPS approach and always be in First-Person mode when shooting a gun, or use Auto-Aim if you suck.

You could also play it the way Metal Gear is meant to be played, and if so, I don't see how Yahtzee can just make it by with only the Mk 2 tranquilizer gun. To pull off a no alert game you really need to make use of the Mk 2, a cloaked Mk II (Otacon's robot), the Mosin-Nagant, Smoke grenades (of all colors), Stun grenades, and magazines (unless you are Yahtzee, because he's uber).

Not only can you play the game in your preferred style, you can also take several routes through the same area. For example, there's an area where you can either help the rebel soldiers escort an armored vehicle to bring down a barricade, or you can hop the rooftops to go around the barricaded area.

Also not mentioned in the review is that the Drebin Points system really appeals to people who like to collect items or unlock new stuff. Your points roll over into the next game and you can keep playing/farming for new equipment; just the the light-RPG elements incorporated by games like COD4 or R6V2 (as a side note, Kojima must really like COD4 as the best guns - the M4 and P90 - are acquired quite early in MGS4).

It's unfortunate that many peoples' first taste of MGS4 is lengthy cutscenes that just make no sense whatsoever (I played the last 3 MGS games, and a lot of it *still* didn't make sense). It stops them from enjoying the game, and seeing little details (see below) that the developers added in that make it so great.

(Try holding up a male soldier and doing a full body search; at the end of the search, Snake will grab the soldier's groin and make him pass out from the pain. Then hold up a female soldier, do the same thing, and see what happens...)

Holy shit that has to be the most brutal review of a truly popular franchised game that Croshaw has done yet...

Kudos to you for having the balls to do it, but seriously... maybe get some bodyguards or something...

Wonderful review again, I loved it :)

TerraMGP:
I'm not expecting him to be infallable, I'm just expecting him not to sell out. I was happy to find a reviewer who would not give in to the pressure of the mainstream, but now hes taken it to the other end of the spectrum and he just tries to make scathing reviews of popular games for the sake of doing it. He has sold out. Thats the problem I have

Yep, yahtzee didn't give a glowing review to a game lots of people like, he must have sold out.

I've only played the first MGS, so feel free to ignore my opinion, but I feel Yahtzee was spot on about Kojima needing an editor. He has a tendency to drag things to death, like the fact that WAR IS BAD. He's by no means a bad writer, but he's the type who would be comfortable with writing novels that are thousands of pages long when they don't need to be. Some of the best writing is subtle and doesn't need to repeatedly beat you over the head with it's message.

I'm kind of hoping he does a video where he responds to all the hilarious NERD RAAAAGE emails he's going to get for this.

After watching it again I'd say my favorite part was the "Mr. and Mrs. 'Oh christ, not you cunts again' from Metal Gear Solid 2."

yeah but the HALO games were poorly designed, kinda diffrent

Anyways on a slightly more serious note the point is not that its not funny, its that hes just going for the humor for its own sake. Its not as funny when hes just trying to tick everyone off and beat the game to death. Its like how Dragonball was all fun and fanciful and easy to enjoy and DBZ was just a Ki based slightly homoerotic manhood waving contests in which anyone who could not suddenly become blond haired and blue eyed was left out in the cold, an irony in and of itself considering the Xenophobia many Japanese have.

We Know Yatzee, we have seen his work, and he was alot funnier when he was just himself. You can tell hes putting on a show now.

I still look at Yahtzee because, generally, I agree with the points that he gives out about games, and they still make me laugh. The first reason more than the second. For instance, The World Ends With You. I love that game, a lot. Really one of the better titles on the DS and as Yahtzee points out in his review, RPG fans will probably take to it rather well. And no matter that I liked the game, I find it very hard to refute much of his points. The main characters ARE ridiculously anorexic fashion obsessed pop culture zombies. It just works somehow.

The point being made about Metal Gear Solid 4 by Yahtzee is not even one that's particular strange. I've seen it said so many other places that I remain convinced Yahtzee isn't just ripping the game for the sake of being 'indy' or whatever. The shooting is clunky when they let you play, the storyline is out there, the cutscenes are too long, and you're about ten times more likely to appreciate it if you are a fan of Metal Gear. This does not mean the game is bad to me. This means that this is a Metal Gear game and therefore aimed at people that like Metal Gear. For the record, I don't agree with the game getting all of these perfect tens, no. A perfect ten implies to me that this game is messianic and will change the mind of most who play it, which it clearly does not. A nine to a nine and a half seems more appropriate, but then again I've never appreciated Metal Gear despite being a nerd for storyline and tabletop gaming.

I think I started to realize why I like the odd numbered MGS games, specifically MGS3: the crazy doesn't bleed over into the story too much. I say "too much" because the craziness does sneak in, but nowhere near as egregious as in the even numbered installments. Yes, Volgin shoots lightning for no apparent reason and the Cobras all fight like X-Men rejects, but if you cut that stuff out then the story reads like a decent James Bond fanfic (which it was). And sure MGS1 had some wacky stuff going on, but also remember when this was. Back then, honestly, how many console games had better story? But then MGS2 brought up the whole 'Liquid's Arm' thing. It wasn't an oddity in a quirky boss, it was a major plot element. As was the vampire and the person who deflects bullets via tremendous luck.

With the odd numbered MGS games I can take the weirdness because, to quote Steven Spielberg addressing Peter Benchley complaining that the ending of Jaws was unrealistic, "If I've held the audience for the past 2 hours I can hold them for another 5 minutes." The even numbered games, on the other hand, have asked us to swallow some pretty crazy shit from the get-go. I can stretch my suspension of disbelief pretty far, but you have to tug gently at it, not use it for a tractor pull.

TerraMGP:
yeah but the HALO games were poorly designed, kinda diffrent

Anyways on a slightly more serious note the point is not that its not funny, its that hes just going for the humor for its own sake. Its not as funny when hes just trying to tick everyone off and beat the game to death. Its like how Dragonball was all fun and fanciful and easy to enjoy and DBZ was just a Ki based slightly homoerotic manhood waving contests in which anyone who could not suddenly become blond haired and blue eyed was left out in the cold, an irony in and of itself considering the Xenophobia many Japanese have.

We Know Yatzee, we have seen his work, and he was alot funnier when he was just himself. You can tell hes putting on a show now.

I think what you're really saying is "he was a lot funnier when he wasn't making fun of games I like"

Yahtzee has ripped into several games that I like and often times it was well deserved. You'll get over it.

yeah Ben Croshaw is right Metal Gear 1-4 all sucks mean for #4 who wants to see a 70 year old man rolling around in tights!

Wow, Yahtzee dangled the carrot and my oh my, have the fan boys ever taken the bait, grow up a little bit people, its not like he insulted your mother. Anyone who didn't see MGS4 getting a lashing either hasn't seen a ZP before, is just plain ignorant or such a rabid MGS fan boy they can't comprehend someone not thinking that its the greatest contribution to uman culter ever created.

no, because he has mocked games I like before and I was fine with it. Heck I found his Brawl review funny even though I think he was still into sellout range at this point. Its the fact that he changes "What kind of gamer he is" to make sure he is opposed to the review and bashes games for too much story when he wrote one of the most confusing and overly-elaborate adventure game series I have ever played, and I have played plenty. I am saying he is being a hypocrite, not for bashing games I like but for bashing games for the sake of doing so. He is giving in to the indy crowd. I knew someone was going to make that accusation of me too. If you want to write me off because I 'don't have a sense of humor' or whatever go right ahead but its diffrent now. He has gone from bashing the aspects of games because they are bad and nothing more to just wailing on them with a hammer because fans want to see it.

Yahtzee has sold out!!!
Why is it that a four-minute-long review is followed by nearly four minutes of advertisements?

As for the actual review this week, it's the first that I didn't find very funny. Even though I love Smash Bros, I laughed at the descriptions of "that guy" and Nintendo fanboys, because they described me so perfectly. In this one, I just felt personally attacked for "ingesting verbal diarrhea." Not cool.

And is it just me, or is the Escapist website ridiculously slow? It's been like this for the last few days now...

mace5087:
yeah Ben Croshaw is right Metal Gear 1-4 all sucks mean for #4 who wants to see a 70 year old man rolling around in tights!

Christ, that's another thing not mentioned in the review. Yahtzee, why didn't you warn us about the HUGE number of gratuitous butt shots of various characters, especially of Senile Snake?

They're so...

articulated...

mspencer82:

I think what you're really saying is "he was a lot funnier when he wasn't making fun of games I like"

Very well said! I can't wait until Final Fantasy XIII comes out (if he can stifle his vomit long enough to review another JRPG I like :P) to see what he says about that and the upheaval it's likely to cause. This is a little like arguing religion though. I don't think anyone will change their minds about Metal Gear Solid 4.

TerraMGP:
Did the man who wrote the Chzo series REALLY just complain about overly elaborate and redundant story? Yatzee, please stop putting out the boring attack reviews and get back to how you used to do it. We know who you really are from your games and this attitude is a real turn off.

Come on, he was assigned to criticize MGS4, so he had to. That's the job. But if he did this review with his sincere point of view, then yes, he would be an hypocrite.

To quote Wikipedia:

Patience:
Patience (ˈpÔ-shənz) is the state of endurance under difficult circumstances.

I don't dislike Metal Gear Solid 4; I've never played it for a start, but the "You just need patience" argument is stupid. It's similar to 'having to entertain yourself while playing Super Paper Mario.'

I"m not trying to change the minds of others about the game, though I do think people just have a really odd mindset. I also think thats why people can't get into a good Jrpg, because they see him say he does not like it or because they can't just enjoy the story for itself.

Frankly though thats not my point here. My point is that he USED to just give an unbiased everyman opinion, and I can't say he is doing that anymore. I once again state that if he had not produced the Chzo series I may not feel the same, but he did and he loves adventure games and we know that the man is the British Hideo so really he is either a hypocrite or resorting to the lowest common denominator to attract people who fancy themselves indy because they don't like a 'mainstream' game.

And his job is not to bash, if he is being pressured to bash, well then he is a sell out for not telling them no. He used to give a sincere view of things with some cynicism and satire piled on after.

Patience 2. an ability or willingness to suppress restlessness or annoyance when confronted with delay: to have patience with a slow learne

THAT is the defenition I am referring to.

I dunno, I still have to disagree with you. I don't see a clear deviation from the way that Yahtzee normally does things. Even games that he freaking LIKES get eviscerated and their innards poked at before he grudgingly awards them a slight honor. Is it so hard to believe that he honestly didn't care for Metal Gear Solid 4? It was much like his review of The World Ends With You: charmingly scathing with the concession that fans of such things will enjoy the game.

For the record I will say that he was right about the shooting elements not quite coming together (Which while expected still makes me sad.) I didn't really enjoy this review as much as the others mainly because he sort of stated the obvious and then claimed that a core mechanic was somehow overpowered when I can speak from experience when I say this is not the case. For example his review of Heavenly Sword a while back was dead on and I laughed alot and I love the game. Yahtzee is at his most humorous when his critcisms of a game do not stem from ignorance of how the game works. Frankly I don't think the shooting controls are all that good even when you realize that you can set first person view in the options or just press triangle. I wish they had put more work into that aspect and maybe fix the nearly useless autoaim.

I am also glad that he did say tha one should play the other games first to see if you like them before playing four.

TerraMGP:
yeah but the HALO games were poorly designed, kinda diffrent.

And that's the point where I stopped paying attention, because it showed that the rest could only be yet another repetition of, "he's funny when I agree with him but grrr-yip-yip-snarl-Kojima-san-bark-yip-deep-series-yip-yip-yip."

Sheesh.

-- Steve

It wasn't charming, it was the man doing what he does more and more now, and thats skipping over the good points or small things he likes or even just giving some level of unbiased overview and bashing the game over the head with a stick because its what people wants to see. He has given up on any sort of whit and just kind of decided the fans want blood.

As for the comment I was joking, well half joking the HALO games are still a crime against nature but quite frankly thats not the point. I would have been fine with his review had ne not just kept going for blood because thats what people expect. He can rip apart the games I like all he wants just do it the way he used to and not bashing them because it makes the indy people go yay, and especially don't throw stones for sins one is more than a little guilty of himself.

fuck mgs4, worth renting not buying! :)

TerraMGP:
I"m not trying to change the minds of others about the game, though I do think people just have a really odd mindset. I also think thats why people can't get into a good Jrpg, because they see him say he does not like it or because they can't just enjoy the story for itself.

Frankly though thats not my point here. My point is that he USED to just give an unbiased everyman opinion, and I can't say he is doing that anymore. I once again state that if he had not produced the Chzo series I may not feel the same, but he did and he loves adventure games and we know that the man is the British Hideo so really he is either a hypocrite or resorting to the lowest common denominator to attract people who fancy themselves indy because they don't like a 'mainstream' game.

Man I totally know where you're comming from. But let it go, the Yahtzee fans will not understand because they don't want to and they will find impossible ways to rebut anything you say that goes against Yahtzee's opinion. Say what you need to say, leave it like that and let the masses interpret it as they please, obviously some of us may look into what you said with insight (even if they don't agree), but the rest will view you as no more than a Yahtzee hater.

Magugag:
Very well said! I can't wait until Final Fantasy XIII comes out (if he can stifle his vomit long enough to review another JRPG I like :P) to see what he says about that and the upheaval it's likely to cause. This is a little like arguing religion though. I don't think anyone will change their minds about Metal Gear Solid 4.

Fans of certain games are just overwhelming stubborn and won't admit there's anything wrong with their Holy Grail. Fans of Metal Gear, Halo, Half-Life, Final Fantasy, and Nintendo in general come to mind. Speaking of Final Fantasy, you're right, if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII there is going to be a shit storm. Probably not the size the Brawl review generated, but pretty close.

TerraMGP:

Frankly though thats not my point here. My point is that he USED to just give an unbiased everyman opinion, and I can't say he is doing that anymore. I once again state that if he had not produced the Chzo series I may not feel the same, but he did and he loves adventure games and we know that the man is the British Hideo so really he is either a hypocrite or resorting to the lowest common denominator to attract people who fancy themselves indy because they don't like a 'mainstream' game.

When did Yahtzee ever give unbiased opinions? All reviews are biased. Most professional reviewers try to disregard this and weigh the games pros and cons. Yahtzee really doesn't. He points out the games flaws for laughs then tells you what he thinks of the game. I find it sort of refreshing to see a review that doesn't pull punches on things like the cutscene length. Most of the reviews for MGS4 tend to brush these things aside, so it's nice to finally see someone spotlight them.

If you say so Terra, but I might add that a sense of humor could help you appreciate it. I don't care what is insisted, he had good points that even fans have agreed with him on, and some that they did not. Still, gotta thank you for not reducing yourself to flaming in a debate. Rare on the internet. I don't truly believe Yahtzee is selling out in his reviews. I challenge you to find a review that doesn't really rip on the game he's looking at- that's how it's been from the start. I just don't think that Metal Gear Solid 4 was his sort of game.

mspencer82:

Magugag:
Very well said! I can't wait until Final Fantasy XIII comes out (if he can stifle his vomit long enough to review another JRPG I like :P) to see what he says about that and the upheaval it's likely to cause. This is a little like arguing religion though. I don't think anyone will change their minds about Metal Gear Solid 4.

Fans of certain games are just overwhelming stubborn and won't admit there's anything wrong with their Holy Grail. Fans of Metal Gear, Halo, Half-Life, Final Fantasy, and Nintendo in general come to mind. Speaking of Final Fantasy, you're right, if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII there is going to be a shit storm. Probably not the size the Brawl review generated, but pretty close.

Wasn't the Brawl thread ten trillion times worse than this one? Granted it was also funnier but that is besides the point.

I couldn't help but notice that a lot of things he complained about were fixable from too many cutscenes (skip them) to the infinite trank gun and week enemies (stop playing on the easiest difficulty you wanker) then proceeded to skip over all the really awesome elements of the game (because that would spoil it so, OK) and then ran a Ninja Gaiden add... well it was still funny... but I have to say that this game is as good as you make it and when I played it, it was F*CKING AWESOME!! So anybody out there who has competent gaming skills should check it out...

mspencer82:
Fans of certain games are just overwhelming stubborn and won't admit there's anything wrong with their Holy Grail. Fans of Metal Gear, Halo, Half-Life, Final Fantasy, and Nintendo in general come to mind. Speaking of Final Fantasy, you're right, if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII there is going to be a shit storm. Probably not the size the Brawl review generated, but pretty close.

Actually, I think if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII and doesn't completely shit all over it, trumpets will sound and Horsemen will start spreading famine, pestilence and used panties.

He is definitely right about the controls, however. I'll never know how Big Boss/Solid Snake managed to be considered "the greatest soldier alive" when it takes an extra appendage and a trigonometry degree to work the aiming mechanisms properly.

Again... have you played the Chzo games? its freaking hypocritical. And yes his reviews were, WERE not are, simply his own opinion, that was kind of why it was good before. Now either because he let something go to his head or because his publisher is pressuring him he is just beating the games down without any sort of real whit or nods to the pros of them. I was fully prepared for him to bash the game, and I have no problem with that, but the way he did it was not funny and lacked the charm of many of the other reviews.

I have no problem with him smacking the games I like around a bit, I just want to see it done in a way that covers REAL flaws. I don't want to see him just bash at the bad points he can find because he can. He should not have to sink that low.

TerraMGP:
Again... have you played the Chzo games? its freaking hypocritical. And yes his reviews were, WERE not are, simply his own opinion, that was kind of why it was good before. Now either because he let something go to his head or because his publisher is pressuring him he is just beating the games down without any sort of real whit or nods to the pros of them. I was fully prepared for him to bash the game, and I have no problem with that, but the way he did it was not funny and lacked the charm of many of the other reviews.

That's funny, people said the same thing about the Brawl review....and the Halo review...and the Bioshock review...

It's weird though, it's not always the same people. One week they love the reviews and the next they hate them. I wonder why they only disliked reviews of certain games...?

I love the mgs series!!....and i f**king love this review!, its brilliant, come on you upset saps! get a sense of humor..

BlueInkAlchemist:

mspencer82:
Fans of certain games are just overwhelming stubborn and won't admit there's anything wrong with their Holy Grail. Fans of Metal Gear, Halo, Half-Life, Final Fantasy, and Nintendo in general come to mind. Speaking of Final Fantasy, you're right, if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII there is going to be a shit storm. Probably not the size the Brawl review generated, but pretty close.

Actually, I think if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII and doesn't completely shit all over it, trumpets will sound and Horsemen will start spreading famine, pestilence and used panties.

If a JRPG can convince Yahtzee to actually grudgingly accept the possibility that JRPGs can please him too, it's totally Final Fantasy! But I agree with you, I'll also be looking for cover because it's surely a sign of the apocalypse!

And Terra, at this point I'm beginning to fail to see your point. Your main point seems to be that you didn't find his review funny, and that Yahtzee made a game at one point that rambles and therefore has no right to identify rambling? I still maintain that I don't notice anything different from his usual review formula beyond the switching of a game. He pointed out flaws that some may not see as flaws, but once again that's his usual fare. True, Yahtzee has a habit of derailing flagship games, but that's one reason I keep coming back here. He gives a truthful and more realistic look at the games, pointing out flaws.

I think Yahtzee hit it on the spot here.

My MGS4 experience. Me and 2 other friends, eager to get this game started.
Start playing game "how do I crawl? Oh here we go"
*insert cutscene here*
Cool, walk up a flight of stairs...
*insert cutscene here*
A bit more game play, hey the rat pack
*insert cutscene he....(eject button)*
"Who wants to play rockband?" WOOO, yea alright!

I like a game with cutscenes... but this is definitely a one player only affair, some games are fun to watch on the sidelines or trade off controls, this isn't one of them... and quite honestly, a 'skip' option would be most welcome.

TerraMGP:
I'm not expecting him to be infallable, I'm just expecting him not to sell out. I was happy to find a reviewer who would not give in to the pressure of the mainstream, but now hes taken it to the other end of the spectrum and he just tries to make scathing reviews of popular games for the sake of doing it. He has sold out. Thats the problem I have

Protip:

Not everyone has to like the games you do. Please point out to me where he said that this was necessarily a bad game?

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . . . 31 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here