Zero Punctuation: Webcomics

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Nadsat:
It was the mass effect review, actually. Actually, comparing Ctrl Alt Del with Perry Bible Fellowship (a fantastic webcomic that everyone should read - Agreed Spookie) it's very easy to see what Buckley's faults are as a comedian and an artist.

*Too many god-damn words
*Inexpressive and one-dimensional characters
*Too many god-damn words
*A general in-ability to draw facial expressions or emotion (this was attempted in the miscarriage story arc, but never really pulled off particularly well)
*Oh, and he uses too many words

I normally don't feel compelled to post on videos/blogs/posts but this. This I could not avoid.

I did register to highlight many other of his flaws in his car wreak of a webcomic but appears someone beat me to the mark.

So I'll move on to my other point.

Is he a fucking idiot? Miscarriage?

I've not had the silver spoon placed firmly up my arse like many others no doubt posting here. We've all had our fair few trials and tribulations. But what you don't do, even if you are a bat shit crazy socialite, is drag up a dead and buried topic (sorry - not intended) for page hits.

As you can safely assume, I side very much with Yahtzee. Though admittedly I did laugh at this video. I'm aware he was drawing attention to other bottom-of-the-barrel comics out there (VGcats being one that sticks to the front of my mind). It's hard not to feel that Tim stole the day again. I do feel tragically sorry for Tim if this is the kind of drivel he has to draw to get attention.

Congratulations. You're a grade A fruitloop.

BTW, Keep up the good work Yahtzee you're an inspiration!

I don't really understand why people are so anti-CAD *shrugs*

What's sad about this review is that it's like a cut and paste template: it works for most webcomics out there.

Dang, man, DANG. I have to admit that your inherent bitterness is basically what gives you your charm (the same reason that people enjoy characters in a certain medium because they're adorably blunt and cynical) but it all kind of flies out of the window when you start to call other people on it. Sure, saying that you're "aware of the hypocrisy" is a disclaimer towards something like that, but you can hardly make fun of such a trait when it's basically WHO YOU ARE. You certainly can't point out that one way to success is by being a douche in such a condescending tone that it could burn the lips off your face while simultaneously attacking gamers, game developers, Americans, the Japanese, Australia, children, and half a million other demographics in your videos and then stand up and expect applause. Not from anyone with a brain in their skull, anyway.

Criticism aside, you did a good job with picking out a lot of stuff that's really wrong with the webcomics business - probably most importantly the "lifting up of the autobiographical and self-representational protagonist as a charming God". It gets fucking irritating.

As to my thoughts on the video: I thought this was fairly amusing but there's one big problem with this video: It's really all about Ctrl+Alt+Del, and as a result really comes out as a Take That. If it were about the fallacies of gaming comics in general, with a small bit of an emphasis on Ctrl+Alt+Del, it would be much better.

For example, Strong Bad's take on webcomics was flat-out hilarious (well, everything Strong Bad does is flat-out hilarious, I guess). However, note that at no point was any webcomic in particular singled out; when he makes fun of gaming comics, he makes fun of GAMING COMICS, not any specific comic.

Most of all, I look forward to seeing what Yahtzee says about this on Fully Ramblomatic, if anything.

Lord_Seth:
As to my thoughts on the video: I thought this was fairly amusing but there's one big problem with this video: It's really all about Ctrl+Alt+Del, and as a result really comes out as a Take That. If it were about the fallacies of gaming comics in general, with a small bit of an emphasis on Ctrl+Alt+Del, it would be much better.

The problem with that is, the format that he describes for CAD applies to 90% of all gaming comics out there, so in a way it WAS a jab at gaming comics in general.

Lord_Seth:
For example, Strong Bad's take on webcomics was flat-out hilarious (well, everything Strong Bad does is flat-out hilarious, I guess). However, note that at no point was any webcomic in particular singled out; when he makes fun of gaming comics, he makes fun of GAMING COMICS, not any specific comic.

The person who sent in that e-mail, Gunkiller, is actually a friend of mine. I wish he'd taken the advice to heart. ^_^;

I love and hate this video, mainly because I like that he didn't review a game so it was a little more interesting, and of course this also means he's straying away a little more because now he realizes how fucking influential he is - but ranting about gaming webcomics is borderline "off topic"...borderline.

I love how everyone just says "man he must hate CAD" even though he didn't mention ANY names other than penny arcade.

Love how it also says "Still very much aware of the hypocrisy thank you!" - (go to that site at the end of the video and check out his comic.) and of course him and his flip flopping of opinions.

The main difference that sets Yahtzee apart from CAD and its ilk is an understanding of wit and irony as tools of humour, rather than simply repackaging web forum memes. The 'hypocrisy' of this ZP is ironic hypocrisy, in that it is meant to present a self-referential mirror that outlines obvious flaws. Of course, the problem with people who don't grasp irony is that they tend to be the people least likely to be self-referential in a critical sense. Something which is also pointed out in this ZP as well.

The only part of this episode that was blatantly about CAD was the miscarriage portion. The rest, though it to can be applied to CAD, can be spread across such a wide variety of gaming webcomics that saying it is solely an attack on CAD is unfounded.

I think it goes to show just how completely unoriginal they all (including CAD) are. CAD just happens to be one of the more popular abortions that get posted regularly to the web that follow the script he laid out.

Mr. Smiles:
To be honest, I just hope this doesn't become a regular back and forth thing between Ben and Tim. This is something we as both gamers and comedy seekers do NOT need. It's fun to see a bashing now and then, so long as it doesn't turn into an all out flame war.

Are you fucking kidding?

That would be amazing.

It'd be a comedy lulz mine!

The thing I want to give points to CAD for concerning the miscarriage storyline is that it managed to actually surprise me twice. Once when the actual pregnancy came about, and then again with it's conclusion. Web-comics aren't usually a thing that can throw you for a loop, so there's that shock factor I would credit him with.

After that surprise wore of though, the entire thing felt kind of... pointless. Ultimately, all of the characters wound up in the exact same place they were in before the tale started, so much so that if you skipped over the entire thing I don't think you would miss a beat. And we're already back to the 'funny'.

And that's what I think hurts the seriousness a lot more than any kind of artistic complaints you may have would. The whole thing had a huge potential for some character and plot development, but really feels wasted to me. What should be a huge speed bump in the road of the character's lives feels greatly diminished.

I don't know, yahtzee. Mr. John Solomon already has this covered.

My main problem is that whenever you ask almost any anti-CAD person why they don't like CAD, they usually reply with some variant of either "Because it sucks," which to me reeks of circular logic, or "Because Tim Buckley isn't nice," which is like saying Guns N' Roses sucks because Axl Rose is a jackass. You almost never get an intelligent response. And if you admit to LIKING CAD, then you have people who "instantly lose ALL respect for you as a human being," (direct quote from a response in this topic), or declare you certifiable.

I was reading some of the CAD comics and never found them funny.

I think this is even more funny: http://www.hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2005-06-29

thebobmaster:
My main problem is that whenever you ask almost any anti-CAD person why they don't like CAD, they usually reply with some variant of either "Because it sucks," which to me reeks of circular logic, or "Because Tim Buckley isn't nice," which is like saying Guns N' Roses sucks because Axl Rose is a jackass. You almost never get an intelligent response. And if you admit to LIKING CAD, then you have people who "instantly lose ALL respect for you as a human being," (direct quote from a response in this topic), or declare you certifiable.

I don't like it because it is the pie-in-the-face of webcomics. I don't give a monkey's about who writes it, just that it seems simply unable to use subtle wit and needs to smack you in the face with 'humour' you have seen on a dozen forums already, illustrated in a painfully drawn out fashion. It's like the guy in the office who tells a joke and explains why it is funny as he goes along just in case you happen to have a similar learning difficulty to him.

PA does this on occasion but generally has a much higher level of subtlety when delivering gags.

I always get the feeling that every third CAD panel should have an embedded .wav file that shouts LOL when you mouse over it, and every fourth should randomly shout 'NINJAS' 'PIRATES' 'CAKE' or whatever tired meme the preteens are giggling at now.

Very funny episode, but man is Yahtzee wandering into the Wank Zone with it.

I'd also like to call out all the haterz (whatever comic the bile is directed at) for succumbing to the very "drama" here that Yahtzee was blithering on about in the comic. Way to be willing tools, dudes. Try making up your own minds for a change instead of being pliable clay for the first intelligent hand to come along.

-- Steve

Wow how is Yahtzee so fucking funny I lol my ass off also every web video I watch?

Glad he touched upon this, I had real issues with CAD's change of theme tbh, it was a bit... much.

Lord_Seth:

Was the Mega Man sprites comment supposed to be aimed at Bob And George (which I thought was a pretty good comic) or just a reference to how many bad sprite comics there are?

Bob and George was fucking great. I think it may have been one of the first webcomics ever, too.

Hmm... my Earthbound webcomic is starting to follow some of the cliches mentioned in Yahtzee's review. Bah, it's so easy to fall for it!

I never knew webcomics had serious twists in storylines (like miscarriages) before. Then again... I don't read many webcomics. Just 8-Bit and that Chicanery one with Earthbound characters.

Good entertainment, couldnt enjoy it to its max since i really dont know what a game comic is. But as always Yahzee's scaving review was highly satisfying.

I read a lot of webcomics, and even though I've read through ctrl-alt-del I'm still hesitant to call myself a fan. It was never quite bad enough for me to stop reading, but it has never made me want to be sure to check the site at the exact second it updates either. I'm glad he's trying to extend himself as an artist, but he is doing it wrong. I think I'd respect him more if he kept CAD going as random humor and then did a serious side project (other dual-comic sites: applegeeks, questionable content, terrorisland/request comics, achewood and it's ten character blogs) instead of just mixing the two and pouring horrible things on an audience that wasn't looking for them.

The only time I've ever seen a humor comic turn to drama successfully was sluggy freelance. Some of the stories fall flat (most of those semi-annual Harry Potter parodies), but the characters genuinely grow over time, and even in the darkest storyline he manages to stick in some awesome one-liners that don't distract from the mood. The art is decent, and the wordy comics actually advance the story in subtle ways. Also, almost all of his dramatic comics are freaking huge. What he really needs to do is wrap it and it's TEN YEARS OF DAILY UPDATES up and start something that's accessible to new readers who don't have a straight month to waste catching up. Dresden Codak ALMOST did it right, but by updating half as often as he used to right at the climax of the story he kind of ruined it.

Guy who doesn't think comics are art: go read Ballad. It takes a while to get to the dialogue, but if that series isn't art (good or bad), then no one anywhere has ever created art.
http://www.moderntales.com/comics/ballad.php?view=archive&chapter=12228&mpe=0

Good episode, but not as good as a decent game review. Yahtzee should have either done a classic or import game, those are always great.

CAD has it's bright moments although they are not too many ^^ Pretty good video though, covers alot of other webcomics aswell :D

I just read Ben's talk on CAD at his site before this came out. I'm glad it wasn't all about CAD though. I like that he's doing videos about different things at the moment.

Erzei:
I was reading some of the CAD comics and never found them funny.

I think this is even more funny: http://www.hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2005-06-29


Talking about hl comic, which is amazing but only if you've played HL2, here's my favorite:

http://www.hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2006-01-16

hahahah very nice

can't wait until you tear into the diablo series since d3 is announced

Good review, although CAD can be funny (Go Chef Brian!) and my personal fav is still PVP Online. Thumbs up, Yahtzee.

I don't *dislike* CAD; it's occasionally amusing enough to be worth the 10 seconds it takes to read it- but that was an awesome video. Seriously, the whole miscarriage thing was incredibly misguided. I also see a VG Cats swipe there, which is also deserved. VG Cats has had some true moments of brilliance, but it's been a long time since it was anything but filler.

cixelsyD:

Erzei:
I was reading some of the CAD comics and never found them funny.

I think this is even more funny: http://www.hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2005-06-29


Talking about hl comic, which is amazing but only if you've played HL2, here's my favorite:

http://www.hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2006-01-16

Those are really good. "What the hell are we gonna do with 100,000 explosive barrels?" and the hiding G-man.

There's nothing wrong with a serious storyline, and CAD had potential with the miscarriage.

However, everything is wrong when said storylines are dealt with in a completely fucked up manner, swerving between HAHAZANY and OHGODWERESERIOUS panels. That kind of schizophrenic writing is not deep or original - it's just sloppy and badly done. Sadly, you make that kind of remark and you're accused of "not getting" CAD.

I must say that I disagree with his opinion on webcomics. I'll admit that there are many, many, bad webcomics out there. Such as the entirety of DrunkDuck.com's collection. However, I am a fan of a few webcomics, particularly CTRL ALT DEL, which Yahtzee seems to rag on a fair bit. I'm also a fan of MegaTokyo.

For the hundreds of badly made, no effort involved, webcomics "MegaMan and Kirby Neo X 2099" and such, there are one or two good webcomics which are actually good. I'd highly recommend Purgatory Tower as a prime example.

It seems that lately, all Yahtzee seems to do is try to annoy as many people as possible, to get his popularity up - after all, controversy sells. This has been true for Metal Gear Solid 4, The World Ends With You, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl. I do feel that this is going a step too far though as he's throwing every webcomic, ever, into the same pot and trying to claim they're all the same.

portuga-man:
I don't know, yahtzee. Mr. John Solomon already has this covered.

...except that Yahtzee is actually funny and not just a attention-whoring dick who doesn't know when to write one sentence about something and when to write four paragraphs.

SamW89:

It seems that lately, all Yahtzee seems to do is try to annoy as many people as possible, to get his popularity up - after all, controversy sells. This has been true for Metal Gear Solid 4, The World Ends With You, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl. I do feel that this is going a step too far though as he's throwing every webcomic, ever, into the same pot and trying to claim they're all the same.

So it's perfectly fine for him to rag on something if it doesn't have a legion of fans that see nothing wrong with the game? <_<

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