Editor's Note: La Luna

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La Luna

Hold on to something, because I'm going to hit you with a revelation. Information so startling, so astounding, that you may want to stop reading if you suffer from any kind of heart condition. Are you ready? Are you sure? Ok, here goes:

Girls like videogames. They make them, they write about them, and above all, they play them.

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Oh, it all makes sense now, I was wondering why The Escapist smelt so nice this week, it's because it's a girl issue. Yet to see a rainbow or a unicorn yet though, which means that it's still safe to show my face around these parts.
Anyway, sounds like an interesting issue, looking forward to giving it a good ol' read.

This unicorn mounted, barbie dolled-up, chain main bikini clad, warrior princess approves this blog post. I agree that "girls" are rare at the usual gamer watering holes. The one's who are vociferous parts of gamer communities are no longer girls either but women over 30 in my experience.

Perhaps this is just a pointless nitpick, but isen't Venus and not the Moon the heavenly sphere most commonly associated with femininity?

Great issue anyway!

I'm looking forward to the week when the Escapist is inspired by Brenda Braithwaite's example and does a "Men in Gaming" issue.

sammyfreak:
Perhaps this is just a pointless nitpick, but isn't Venus and not the Moon the heavenly sphere most commonly associated with femininity?

<insert crass "two heavenly spheres" joke here>

Perhaps this is just a pointless nitpick, but isen't Venus and not the Moon the heavenly sphere most commonly associated with femininity?

Pointless and dead wrong. The moon has long been associated with femininity in no small part due to the effect of it's gravitational cycle on various unmentionable things.

But the reference in the title of this week's issue is to the moon as the feminine opposite to the masculine sun, i.e. "El sol y la luna," which also happens to also be the name of my favorite Mexican restaurant in Austin.

So it's a multi-cultural, food-inspired thing.

Russ Pitts:

Perhaps this is just a pointless nitpick, but isen't Venus and not the Moon the heavenly sphere most commonly associated with femininity?

Pointless and dead wrong. The moon has long been associated with femininity in no small part due to the effect of it's gravitational cycle on various unmentionable things.

But the reference in the title of this week's issue is to the moon as the feminine opposite to the masculine sun, i.e. "El sol y la luna," which also happens to also be the name of my favorite Mexican restaurant in Austin.

So it's a multi-cultural, food-inspired thing.

Well I like Mexican food so I guess I'll run with it.

Tacos all around people!

Please don't take this as anything against this issue, it's a very good issue, but...

We get it. Girls play games, girls like games, girls don't just play Cooking Mama and Barbie's Latest Adventure. Those who aren't insecure about their masculinity accept it and those who are never will. When will this game-journalism fad of talking about it end?

Ick, cooties!

-- Steve

Lvl 64 Klutz:
Please don't take this as anything against this issue, it's a very good issue, but...

We get it. Girls play games, girls like games, girls don't just play Cooking Mama and Barbie's Latest Adventure. Those who aren't insecure about their masculinity accept it and those who are never will. When will this game-journalism fad of talking about it end?

That's pretty much our point. Take "Playing Mommy," for example. That's a uniquely feminine perspective on playing games that isn't about proving that women play, or are better than men. With this issue, we're trying to convey that you can talk about females in gaming without covering the same old tired ground.

All that said, I'd still wager that there are nowhere near as many girls that play games as guys, and I think that is why there are still those that are amazed when they encounter a girl gamer - they just haven't encountered it before is all. I know about as many guys as I do girls, yet in my social circle I only know two girls that play (and that's just WoW) compared to a lot of guys. It stands to reason that some circles of friends will have no girls that play.

Just out of curiosity, is there a rough estimate on what the current ratio of male to female gamers is in the world?

Thirtysomething:
All that said, I'd still wager that there are nowhere near as many girls that play games as guys, and I think that is why there are still those that are amazed when they encounter a girl gamer - they just haven't encountered it before is all. I know about as many guys as I do girls, yet in my social circle I only know two girls that play (and that's just WoW) compared to a lot of guys. It stands to reason that some circles of friends will have no girls that play.

Just out of curiosity, is there a rough estimate on what the current ratio of male to female gamers is in the world?

It can be anything between 30-45% depending on country and study, bur those studies tend to include people who play solitate once a week as gamers, or so I hear.

Susan Arendt:
Girls like videogames. They make them, they write about them, and above all, they play them.

Lies! Secrets and lies!

Girls would be even more into gaming if parents and society in general would stop assigning artificial gender roles to kids. I'm bringing up a girl myself and I'm amazed and appalled at the amount of gender stereotyping that bombards us - and that a lot of parents accept, perpetuate and pass on to their kids - thus creating social stigma for any girl who doesn't toe the accepted gender-role line.

For example: ever notice the bright and/or pink girls vs. dark and/or blue boys sections in kids clothing stores? Ever ask yourself why girls clothes can't be dark and/or blue - I mean surely dark and blue are not naturally masculine. Ever notice the difficulty of finding girls' shoes that are built for climbing on jungle gyms? I often find myself buying boy's shoes for my daughter just because the girl's shoes are too flimsy. Similarly, most girls' clothes and shoes are too light in colour for active use (so they show the dirt more than boy's clothes do).

My daughter loves dinosaurs, but the reaction of parents and store workers to this is telling: "A girl who likes dinosaurs?" they ask, incredulously, as if somehow dinosaurs should a boy's natural domain, and as if a girl who likes dinosaurs is somehow a freak. Similarly, she plays with Buzz Lightyear, toy cars and with Nerf guns. Why these should be considered 'boys' toys is beyond me - I mean what such toys have to do with penises, and why the vaginally-equipped should not enjoy them, is a mystery to me.

And it's not that I'm bringing her up to be a 'Tomboy' - she also has dolls, tea sets, teddy bears and Barbie. I believe in bringing kids up with toys that are interesting: whether they are seen as stereotypically masculine or feminine is beside the point.

The societal gender prejudice is not some vast conspiracy - it's just how things have been done for centuries, and most people are not bright enough to look at the issue with any objectivity or critical judgement. Girls are just mindlessly shoe-horned into the stereotypes from a very young age, and one of these stereotypes is that they don't play video games. There's no reason behind it - it's just a stupid tradition that few people ever think to question.

Girls? Playing videogames?

Next you're going to tell me that computers can display 3D graphics in real-time.

I would like to see some inquiries into why guys who don't game, don't game. I suspect it's pretty much the same thing - the stereotype and the "I have more important, i.e. Real Life things to do" reactions.

I loved the "gaming my way through labor" article.

Mm, I was thinking the same thing as mshcherbatskaya (wrote it without copy/pasting!). Would be interesting to see if anyone has any philosophies and/or principles against it apart from just that.
Heh, I am not chocked in the least, but I enjoy the fact getting attention, and love the theme for this week, just like I love gamer girls. ^_^

When are you going to stop posting this? You're a girl gamer, there are girl gamers out there - we get it. How about you stop using your gender as a defining feature, or as a novelty to be worn for some form of shock value?

Sorry, its just it gets a bit tiring after every third thread on this site is basically "Just so you know, there are a lot of girl gamers, but you're never likely to meet them". And I'm not just talking about this "issue", its been going on consistently for far longer.

I think this image summaries my feelings about this article:

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=538434

Or hell, how about this article:

http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/587/oped_women_in_games_who_.php?page=2

Joeshie:
I think this image summaries my feelings about this article:

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=538434

That image is awesome, thanks for the link.

It's a difficult issue, though. Whenever I think the world out there should have gotten used to women in Games and in tech in general, someone asks me whether my DS is pink and thinks that when I say I am a Software Engineer it's my description for "Interior Decorator with silky pink fabrics". As much as I am sick of the whole topic, some people apparently still need to read about it. Bear with those that need yet another repetition of the "Girls game too" mantra to (hopefully at some point) get it - not everyone is as bright as you are, guys.

The discussion isn't a bad thing, but the tone is. No stupid, misogynistic person is going to be convinced to change their opinion by being called a stupid misogynist. It's a painfully slow process, but since we've come this far I think we can go the last few strides eventually.

What is that about girls being the fairer sex and having hair smelling nicer than that of boys? Why the free sexism? Is that how girl gamers are? Wait, isn't there a a girl gamer clan called "Psychotic Men Slayers"?
What it men started having clans called "Psychotic Women Slayers", would that be praised? Would that be accepted? Wouldn't it make those guys look like jerks?

My point exactly. I find that girl gamers in general are a bunch of insecure jerks that really are looking acceptance the wrong way. Because it's not needed!
You ar a girl... congratulations, SO WHAT! that does not make you special. Why do you want a different treatment? Why always having to compare genders.
Why do you yell that girls are as good as boys in video games? Trying to prove anything?

Besides, lemme tell you, there are a lot more female nurses than male nurses. So what?
I don't hear anyone yelling nurse guys are as good as girls. And I don't see anyone trying to adress the issue of the male minority in that lineof work. Like.."oh, we need to encourage males into that line of work". NO.

Let people do what they want to do, let girls play if they want to, but stop talking about it. I really don't need people reminding me all the time that girls ar pretty good at gaming. Good for them.
If girls want to play different games than boys. Fine, I'm sure eventually more and more girls will become video game designers and make games specifically for them. But stop trying to force things and stop bragging about being a girl gamer else I'll start bragging about being a guy gamer too!!!

I don't care what you say, my hair smells better :D

Matthew Alexander:
I don't care what you say, my hair smells better :D

How the hell would you know? How do you manage to smell your own hair?

Indigo_Dingo:

Matthew Alexander:
I don't care what you say, my hair smells better :D

How the hell would you know? How do you manage to smell your own hair?

So many filthy jokes to choose from.

Susan, stop telling us that there's nothing new about girls gaming. We all know that girls game. There's nothing new about girls gaming.

kanada514:
Wait, isn't there a a girl gamer clan called "Psychotic Men Slayers"?

What larks, a riddle! Are they psychotic girls who slay men, or are they girls who slay psychotic men exlusively? Is it perhaps a fiendish combination of the two?

Well played, P.M.S. Well played.

Copter400:

kanada514:
Wait, isn't there a a girl gamer clan called "Psychotic Men Slayers"?

What larks, a riddle! Are they psychotic girls who slay men, or are they girls who slay psychotic men exlusively? Is it perhaps a fiendish combination of the two?

Well played, P.M.S. Well played.

Maybe I should create a clan called "Killers of Women gamers" and get away with it by saying it was a riddle then? Haha, did I mean that the women killed were gamers or did I mean that the gamers in general were women that kill?

Well played, myself. Well played. (I'm such a genius)

As a leader in the PMS Clan, the worldest largest all-female gaming clan, I can tell you that the issue of girls in gaming is something we have worked very diligently to address. I had considered writing an article for this issue on girls in gaming, but frankly, am tired of hearing the 'get over your gender' comments. (Exactly what I predicted would show up here... and did.)

The reality is that girls in gaming are typically harassed, regardless of how they choose to play, or are viewed as rare sightings in gaming. If you are so evolved that the issue of girls in gaming is a moot point and you don't see the big deal, then thank you - your perspective is applauded and you are the type of person we look to game and network with. However, diminishing the fact that it is still an issue with a lot of people does not provide an educated viewpoint of the situation and it takes away from the fact that we work to market and educate others who do not share your opinion. We don't claim that these situations are unique to girls in gaming, it is just the piece we are currently interested in working on.

The PMS Clan (snicker all you want but you can't argue with the marketing aspect of it) stands for Pandora's Mighty Soldiers, but formerly, in the early 2000's used to stand for Psychotic Men Slayers. The name was changed to follow a mythos that the clan leveraged that would promote community and friendly, positive environments for girl gamers.

We have over 800 girls in the clan with several hundred that compete actively as well as a brother clan that supports women in gaming. Our subscriber base is over 8000 and we recently partnered with NVision to attempt to break the world's record of girls in attendance at one LAN. You can visit our website, www.pmsclan.com to see the type of work that we do and who sponsors us.

I personally was a corporate executive who competes as a member of the clan (currently in CoD4 PC - feel free to add me to xfire if you want a match) who quit to pursue a Masters in Entertainment Technology at Carnegie Mellon. The ratio of guys to girls is shifting and depends vastly on the market you are looking at, but the rise in gamers is in the over 30 female crowd with females playing (and making the buying decisions) on more casual games. Personally, I will stick with hard-core FPS and tournament play, but I do enjoy Puzzle Quest from time to time.

Oh - and I forget to add - my hair smells AMAZING.

GLHF

The PMS Clan (snicker all you want but you can't argue with the marketing aspect of it) stands for Pandora's Mighty Soldiers, but formerly, in the early 2000's used to stand for Psychotic Men Slayers. The name was changed to follow a mythos that the clan leveraged that would promote community and friendly, positive environments for girl gamers.

Would this mean the male version of the clan would be something like "Shaving Rash".

Seriously, having a self-effacing clan name does sort of accentuate the boundaries somewhat doesn't it?

Well, the boundaries existed before the naming was created. Your suggestion would also be relevant for the National Center for Men.

Marketing names are chosen to represent what they stand for typically, and while I personally might have chosen a different name, it does have brand recognition and incites conversation. Frankly, it makes it easier to separate those who are jesting with the girls from those who are disrepecting them.

And to answer your question, the men's clan is H2O - for water - also part of the mythos that we explain to our members at their orientation where we walk through a 45 page handbook for PMS|H2O Inc.

Weren't they the Waterboys, initially?

The_root_of_all_evil:

The PMS Clan (snicker all you want but you can't argue with the marketing aspect of it) stands for Pandora's Mighty Soldiers, but formerly, in the early 2000's used to stand for Psychotic Men Slayers. The name was changed to follow a mythos that the clan leveraged that would promote community and friendly, positive environments for girl gamers.

Would this mean the male version of the clan would be something like "Shaving Rash".

Seriously, having a self-effacing clan name does sort of accentuate the boundaries somewhat doesn't it?

Shaving Rash would be an awesome band name though ; D

No - they were never the waterboys. (Now if some people referred to them as that, that is a different thing, but they were never denoted as such by us. We appreciate their support.)

Our Rockband plays under Moody Water... otherwise, I would recommend Shaving Rash to them... ;D

Quite honestly, I find it irritating that minorities in general tend to promote and behave along the lines of self-exclusion. I don`t grasp or adhere to the idea that voluntary exclusion is a positive thing.
Let`s all have clans to cloister us off by skin color, hair style, and what we have between the legs.
I'll stick with my exclusive clan only for Vietnamese gamers with somewhat brown skin, straight dark hair and dark brown eyes because I feel we are a minority in the world of gaming and that we are harassed and I want to support vietnamese males in gaming.
Or maybe I`ll get in there, ignore the differences and have fun with people of all genders, sizes, nationalities, cultures and tastes.
I'll need to think hard on that one.

And seriously, Ticorah, respect for your cause, and I want to apologize for all the male gamers out there that don`t know how to behave, but frankly, I`m tired of the war of the sexes and I just want to get along with everyone. I would also like eveyone to work on this through unity.
But, sorry if you have to hear it again, but I agree with the `Get over you gender' comment.
Girls are getting harassed perhaps, but by ignorant and intolerant pople, just as much as obese nerds with a high-pitched voice.

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