Editor's Note: La Luna

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Also, if that get over your gender common is seen so frequently that you expect it to show up on every forum, maybe it`s because it reflects what a lot of people think, and there might be a reason for that.
And it`s hard to convince a large majority that think the same thing that they are all think wrong.

I bet you and I would probably get along irl and your second paragraph starts with a great point. And if you and I were creating the gaming phenomenom, we could start with that statement as a mission and groundwork..... but the reality is reality...

I would say the 'get over your gender' comment is better targeted at the ignorant and intolerant people as well as the pre-teens whose parents aren't teaching them better - rather than targeting it at the girls who address the issue. Rarely does the issue of being a girl gamer arise within our gaming community - people are just gamers. And that is the community we created. But venture outside it, and you can't imagine the conduct.

I would support the obese nerds who are getting picked on just as much as the girl only clan, Vietnamese only clan, or the 'no jerks with uneducated perspectives' clan.

Regardless, our incorporated clans are open to all races, genders, sexual preferences, etc. The only difference is the girls wear the PMS tags and the guys wear H2O - and I have already gone over the reason for why.

I would caution you on saying 'that minorities in general tend to promote and behave along the lines of self-exclusion' and that they are voluntarily exclusive. There really isn't a right or wrong on the opinion if you study the why, the psychology of how those situations came to be, and even the positive changes as a result of them. There are great examples and not so great examples of this 'voluntary exclusion'. Again - it just is.

It is typically the extremists to a cause that cause the reaction you have, so I can assure you, I am an equal opportunity assassin with my frags and the only exclusivity I employ is the manner in which you conduct yourself in my presence of the presence of my team members (both male and female).

(Though I would pick pink frag grenades if the devs gave me the option -- maybe blue, but definitely pink.)

xfire: ticorah - come play with us anytime...

kanada514:
Also, if that get over your gender common is seen so frequently that you expect it to show up on every forum, maybe it`s because it reflects what a lot of people think, and there might be a reason for that.
And it`s hard to convince a large majority that think the same thing that they are all think wrong.

lol - you just contradicted yourself...?

Of course it is hard to convince a large 'majority' to change - and that 'there might be a reason' for their thinking.

That's the point of the 'voluntary exclusiveness' you cited....

THAT is the whole issue...

Ticorah:
the 'no jerks with uneducated perspectives' clan

Where do I find this clan, so that I may sign up?

I played a couple of PMS members once in Halo 2 (and got pounded into the dirt...) and with the Coyote Cavegirls a couple of times and found that one's peeing stance isn't that big an issue in gameplay. Anyone making a big to-do about gender in games is part of the problem... and that most especially includes the "get over it" crowd applying individual acts of a few female jerks to smear half the human race.

I don't care if my teammates or opponents are male or female; I just care if they're decent folks or jerks. And both those come in both genders, in my experience.

-- Steve

I have to say I generally dread coming up against girls online because everytime I have theve either been able to snipe the wotsits off a small flea from 5 miles, or i've have a shotgun in my face when I spawn. But regardless of gender I'l try my hardest to hunt them down and give a fairly (usually fairly bad) attempt at repaying my trip to the killcam screen.
However I really didn't think there were many people left saying *a girl on xbox live (or where ever you generally hear people talking) what is this tomfoolery!?* but good luck on educating the few left... suggested tools are a headset, a shotgun and a large sniper rifle because I think that may be the only way to get through to them.

Taking Dead Rising to a friends house, we got his sister to play it and she had fun hacking through the hoards of the undead with a chainsaw.

The articles have been great. I would say keep up the good work, but I doubt you'll do anything less.

Hmm. Though I tire of these "girls play vidja games too!!one" articles, I like that I have such an attitude: the "girls play video games and make them and all that" attitude. This is how it always should've been. I did enjoy the article by the way.

The funny thing that I find here is there are a few people saying "Get over your gender". But I've witnessed more than my fair share of gender harrasment on Live. In the 3 years that I've been on Live, I've seen more than a little gender harrasment and all of it has been provoked by hearing a female voice on the mike. I've seen it on a hardcore FPS like Halo 3, I've seen it on a more casual game like Texas hold em, Heck the last time I played randoms on Soul Caliber 4, a young lady came into our room and whipped everyone there. You know what the host did? He called her a "No life having fat ***", Kicked her out the room and left her a bad review. When I mentioned that seeing as how ALL of us where here playing SC4 at 2am on a friday night, I'd bet none of us are too studly I got called the N-word, got kicked out and saw that my rep took a hit.

The thing I find most ironic(At the risk of stereotyping myself) is that the majority of Live players are NOT barrel chested, chisel chinned, male models who's Iphones ring off the hook with party invites. I would guess that the majority of people that play online know what it is like to be picked on and harrased. So my question is, why are people who game online so aggrasive towards other players? Why is it that most lobbies I'm stuck in online are filled with people who hurl insensitive vulgarties towards women, minorities, or anything else that doesn't fit the mainstream norm? How can people who know what it's like to be singled out have such little regard for their peers feelings?

So good article Sue and thank you for speaking up Ticorah. To anyone else who says "Get over your gender", I ask you if you would let your mother, daughter, sister or wife get online with a live mike and not worry? Because I cannot and I look forward to the day when that changes.

Laters

Ali

why are people who game online so aggrasive towards other players? Why is it that most lobbies I'm stuck in online are filled with people who hurl insensitive vulgarties towards women, minorities, or anything else that doesn't fit the mainstream norm? How can people who know what it's like to be singled out have such little regard for their peers feelings?

Because they're children who are protected by the relative anonymity that the Internet offers - and they know it. Place them in a LAN (As I mentioned in the Frag Fraternity topic) and most of them will be as normal as children can be. Why? Because they know that if they start trash talking, there's a good chance they won't survive the night.

It's basically the Ring of Gyges given a squeaky voice and a raging boner for the tears of other people. They're protected from retribution (The ring's ability to make the wearer invisible - and thus untraceable), but inevitably that protection from retribution leads to arrogance and a belief that justice doesn't apply to them.

Like I've said many times before, everyone on Live is a target for whatever reason the children decide is the easiest to attack. Me? I'm a white, straight guy. That doesn't mean I won't be verbally abused by moronic children - they'll just pick a different and less immediately obvious way of attacking me than if I was, say, a black lesbian.

Another reason they attack others is the same reason why victims of bullies often bully others themselves. They need someone lower down the food chain to abuse. From Blackadder series three...

[Scene changes to Edmund's quarters, below the prince's house. Baldrick is tearing apart some dough. Edmund enters, picks up a tabby cat and punts it high into the air across the room.]

Baldrick: Oh, Sir! Poor little Mildred the cat! What's he ever done to you?

Edmund: It is the way of the world, Baldrick -- the abused always kick downwards. I am annoyed, and so I kick the cat... the cat [there is a mouse `eek!' noise] pounces on the mouse, and, finally, the mouse--

Baldrick: [startled, jumps] Agh!

Edmund: ...bites you on the behind.

Baldrick: Well, what do I do?

Edmund: Nothing. You are last in God's great chain, Baldrick -- unless, of course, there's an earwig around here that you'd like to victimize.

As for if my mum or sister wanted to go on Live with a mic? No problems there. Mum understands that children can be utter cockbags, and Rachel's just as loud-mouthed and obnoxious as the idiots on Live. Even if she wasn't, I still wouldn't have any objections. They can take care of themselves.

ALI ROCK 110:
The funny thing that I find here is there are a few people saying "Get over your gender". But I've witnessed more than my fair share of gender harrasment on Live. In the 3 years that I've been on Live, I've seen more than a little gender harrasment and all of it has been provoked by hearing a female voice on the mike. I've seen it on a hardcore FPS like Halo 3, I've seen it on a more casual game like Texas hold em, Heck the last time I played randoms on Soul Caliber 4, a young lady came into our room and whipped everyone there. You know what the host did? He called her a "No life having fat ***", Kicked her out the room and left her a bad review. When I mentioned that seeing as how ALL of us where here playing SC4 at 2am on a friday night, I'd bet none of us are too studly I got called the N-word, got kicked out and saw that my rep took a hit.

The thing I find most ironic(At the risk of stereotyping myself) is that the majority of Live players are NOT barrel chested, chisel chinned, male models who's Iphones ring off the hook with party invites. I would guess that the majority of people that play online know what it is like to be picked on and harrased. So my question is, why are people who game online so aggrasive towards other players? Why is it that most lobbies I'm stuck in online are filled with people who hurl insensitive vulgarties towards women, minorities, or anything else that doesn't fit the mainstream norm? How can people who know what it's like to be singled out have such little regard for their peers feelings?

So good article Sue and thank you for speaking up Ticorah. To anyone else who says "Get over your gender", I ask you if you would let your mother, daughter, sister or wife get online with a live mike and not worry? Because I cannot and I look forward to the day when that changes.

Laters

Ali

Your entire point is pretty nullified by the fact that EVERYONE gets trash talked on Xbox LIVE: guys, girls, whites, blacks, and everything in between. It's not like guys go onto LIVE and say "Hey, lets make fun of girls and treat everyone else civilly." It seems like you completely missed this essential fact to LIVE.

Blayze-I agree with your LAN point because I grew up in an era where you got your gaming fix at the local arcade and people were much more civil to each other because if you came out the side of your mouth, your attitude correction was swift and sometimes violent.

Joeshie-You seem to miss MY point, it's sad that people who are intimate with the concept of being harassed because they are different chose to treat other people the same way because they were covered by the anonymity the internet provides. And I find any vulgarities hurled at ANYONE totally deplorable. The excuse that "everyone on Live does it" is also pretty weak because I treat anyone I meet on Live with respect. It's OK to do a little chest pounding but when someone starts with the racial slurs, sexist comments, or any other vulgarities, they show what kind of loser they really are. Since my arguement is invalid....How many females do you have on your Friends list? How many of them play randoms with a mike? I have 4 and none of them will ever play in public rooms. Don't you think someone should speak up on that?

Well, that may all be well and dandy. But need I remind you that there are no girls on the internet. So what is a man doing telling me that girls play video games? Especially considering I don't trust men.

ALI ROCK 110:
You seem to miss MY point, it's sad that people who are intimate with the concept of being harassed because they are different chose to treat other people the same way because they were covered by the anonymity the internet provides. And I find any vulgarities hurled at ANYONE totally deplorable.

My point was, how will letting the harassers know that "women play video games" help to curb the harassment at all? Even if you convince everyone in the world that women play video games, they will still get harassed online, just like everyone else will. You're trying to justify a solution (Getting the word that there are female gamers out there), with a problem that will never be solved by your supposed solution.

Women? In my subculture? It's more likely than you think.

I after an old WoW guild of mine dissolved, I followed a female guild officer into another guild, and then when that guild didn't work out I ended up joining a guild led by a woman GM. When that guild dissolved I joined another guild that so happened to also have a female GM. A local guildie I know is in a relationship with a girl he met on WoW. I've also flown with women pod-pilots in EVE Online. Before that, I played sci-fi sim games online with a group that had a few women in it.

In none of these cases was it a terribly big deal to anybody involved that "OMG, thar iz gurlz in teh server!" We all wanted to enjoy ourselves as a group and we all did, for the most part. No stereotyping, no inappropriate innuendos, just good, wholesome raiding and/or robot battles. So my first question is: why does The Escapist think it's a big deal, here and now? In years past, perhaps; online games were initially the domain of the nerd, who was most likely a guy, but anymore gaming is quite mainstream. It isn't surprising to anybody anymore to see women in games. and at least in my experience it's even odder anymore for somebody to take exception or turn into a raging ball of testosterone and sex jokes (though I admit that I do generally play with a more mature group of people than some). So why this topic now?

Second, and this is addressed to the folks who support the idea of all-girl guilds and clans: why the self-segregation? In my experience gaming groups that are accepting of women and generally well-behaved in their (tele)presence aren't all that hard to find. It would seem to me, in this atmosphere, that making a point of separating yourselves undermines the message of equality that you're trying to project. Again, I'll admit that perhaps my gaming experience is not the norm; I've never bothered with the cesspool that is XBox Live, for instance. All the same, it's a little surprising to me that women feel the need to band together and make their feminiity the most important part of their presence in online games. I mean, we *are* all here to, you know, play, right?

Thrashy,

I would say you are really out of touch (which in this case, is not a bad thing). Not going on xbox live, playing with more mature players and playing in the mmorpg genre where more females have been in recent years definitely skews your perspective. I used to play mmo's and it certainly wasn't as bad - but on xbox and fps pc, it is downright degrading.

That doesn't mean there aren't great male clans, or co-ed ones (like the division I manage). And I find that once I meet some guys who find it amazing that there are girls playing pc fps in competitions all the amazement dies down quickly when I get some shots on them. Earned respect. I also go on their ventrillos or teamspeak servers to put a real person to the name. That is what being an ambassador or educator of a cause is about. And that time is well spent I find because then they actually back us up and scrim with us regularly.

But I also get asked to perform sexual favors to be awarded a Forfeit Win... And that happens regardless of the clan tags I wear or do not wear - if they know I am female. I shouldn't have to hide my gender with gender-agnostic tags or names, or phony profile information because others can't behave. Nor will I.

I spend hours weekly in training (8 hours minimum to play on our comp. team) as well as teaching new recruits (mostly males) how to play an fps competitively - which is QUITE different than playing in general. As a result, those guys are usually the first to take issue when our girls are treated inappropriately. And parents of girls are happy when they learn that we can put their girls in all female servers to play the game. I have even been asked by colleagues to bring their wives, girlfriends and daughters in because they are too intimidated to play otherwise.

Maybe the audience of the escapist isn't the demographic that causes the majority of the issues, but if you think it is only pre-pubscent teens, I can assure you it isn't. It isn't like the girls banded together and THAT's what caused the harrassment... but since the harrassment continues to exist, I will be happy to confront it head on... and do so, for the girls and the guys.

And glibly saying we are all here to play is just not true - cause if it was, there would be no issue. People would come to the table to play and never make comments. I can handle smack talk just fine (and do) - I just shouldn't have to handle it going to my gender or sexual comments. Wanna smack talk me? Fine - I'm 36. Talk that way to my 14 year old recruits, and we have a problem. Someone has to look out for them...and it is currently my watch....

Tracy/PMS Ticorah

Hmmm.... I'd never really thought about the idea of female gamers until I read my first forum on gamespot- and I think there was only one female gamer there (and she is still there, so you could go pay her a visit on the forums at gamespot if you like- I'm sure she's terribly lonely, being the only girl on gamespot [and if you took that seriously, then shame on you!])

But here it seems I've finally found an area of the internet that actually has the beginnings of balance between males and females... Very interesting, this Escapist Magazine, isn't it?

I've been playing FPS games for years, Ticorah. From Starsiege: Tribes to TFC to HL2:DM and TF2. And you know something? I've never seen (Or heard, in the case of VoIP) a female gamer being harassed because of her gender. Obviously I've played with many who didn't reveal their gender (Law of Averages and all that), but I've also played with many who did (Especially with VoIP).

All this self-segregation annoys me. Know why? Because it's like gaming is a room, and there's this special corner where women go to cower in, and men are only allowed anywhere near this corner if they wear special mittens (For the Kid Gloves effect) - but aren't actually allowed *in* the corner.

Seriously. Female-only servers? Let's put this into perspective, shall we? If the genders were reversed, and I were to complain about male gamers being harassed, and set up male-only servers, I would be told to grow some balls and stop perpetuating the problem (Alienation leads to segregation, and segregation leads to alienation. You can't become part of a society if you cut yourself off from it).

Women who are too intimidated to play if they might be in the presence of men? That's pathetic. Either take your knocks and stand up again stronger because of it, or don't bother at all. Sure, I'll be told that my attitude (And ones like it) is one of the reasons why many women don't play games. My retort, however, is that if you're too intimidated to play against the majority of the community, shutting yourself off to play against what remains of the community won't prepare you at all.

Oh - ok - so you haven't seen it, so it must not happen. (*ponders shutting down a global branded clan because it must have been founded to address something that doesn't exist. Or... Oh yes, it is possible, maybe, just slightly, that the work that organizations like the PMS Clan have performed in raising awareness might be working. Wonder if those pesky hurricanes are happening right now too - after all, haven't seen them. Aw man... What about Santa Claus? Damn it. Sad Tuesday for all.)

Come on.

Look - self-segregation annoys you? Having to defend it to people for the reason it exists annoys me.

I am tired of the complaining about the 'poor me - if I was a male was to do it... blah blah double-standard'. Like really? Hello? Do you think people just had an uprising one day and decided that minorities would ban against males and create female only clans?

I'm sorry to remind you of the fact that the situation that you reference about the double-standard was the reality that was created by males being in power over minorities (and abusing that power) in history. I wasn't there for it - you probably weren't either. (Wait, maybe it didn't happen since we didn't see it...)

Let me be clear. I am sad that it continues to be an issue FOR ALL on the stage of equality. I prefer equality, but I also live in reality. But alas, that isn't really a topic for the escapist.

The issue at hand is the treatment of women in gaming necessitating the female only environment. And to be concise, we in the PMS Clan don't play to the exclusion of males. We have a brother clan with similar principles. We play together. We play with males and against males - all the time. They come into our servers, we go to theirs, etc. We choose to play some scrims where the harassment occurs, and others, we leave. But we do have the ability to create an environment to introduce females to gaming in a way that makes them feel comfortable.

I have no issues with guys playing with guys only - and I encourage it - as long as the purpose isn't to keep someone 'down'.

Sorry you don't see the point of female only servers and teams... but they wouldn't exist unless there was reason. Several leagues have built in the rule that harassment (in a lot of forms - not just gender only) can result in forfeit losses if you are the instigator. So it does happen.

And that is a liberal interpretation you made of women being 'intimidated in the presence of men' - please. It is that they are afraid of looking stupid because many haven't played a game before or they are afraid of being harassed while doing it. (And I acknowledge that it isn't a female only paranoia - and we train them both - as long as they have a good attitude.)

While your personal observations have not shown you the harassment, I provide you with this:

Recipe for seeing harassment:
1) Take a girl onto xbox live with a gender neutral name.
2) Let her say less than 5 sentences regarding the game.
3) Watch the harassment unfold.
4) Need a replay? Repeat steps 1-3.

So yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. ...They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see.

it is possible, maybe, just slightly, that the work that organizations like the PMS Clan have performed in raising awareness might be working.

Hmm. When was PMS formed? I don't think it was before I started gaming online, which means my experiences are valid. Nice try anyway, but no cigar.

I am tired of the complaining about the 'poor me - if I was a male was to do it... blah blah double-standard'. Like really? Hello? Do you think people just had an uprising one day and decided that minorities would ban against males and create female only clans?

Let's go back to the Ring of Gyges and its links to Live. Live is a perfect example of how people - given the power to do anything without punishment - will do whatever they want. I take it you've never heard of the SCUM Manifesto, at any rate. It stands for "Society for Cutting Up Men", and while it is extremist, it's a perfect representation of just what people are capable of.

And just as you're tired of people complaining about "poor me, I suffer as a male", I'm just as tired of people complaining about "poor me, I suffer as a female". Damn near every article I read about female gamers is written by a female gamer with an axe to grind, seeking a place to vent. The problem with venting on a place like the Escapist? Simple.

The mods do a good job of dealing with asshats of all varieties - sexism, racism, whatever - so all these venting female gamers end up doing is like punching someone in the arm because something's gone badly for you - something that *they* had nothing to do with.

The issue at hand is the treatment of women in gaming necessitating the female only environment.

And yet, the female only environment is only making the problem worse. The only way to get through to a child throwing a tantrum is to kick them in the face until they stop screaming, and yet the female only environment inevitably creates more of a feeling of "Us vs Them" - and the child remains in the corner, screaming and crying and with their nose still not broken.

And that is a liberal interpretation you made of women being 'intimidated in the presence of men' - please. It is that they are afraid of looking stupid because many haven't played a game before or they are afraid of being harassed while doing it. (And I acknowledge that it isn't a female only paranoia - and we train them both - as long as they have a good attitude.)

Ah, you train everyone? Good. One question remains on this issue, however... If you train players of both genders who have good attitudes, why the female-only servers?

I'm sorry to remind you of the fact that the situation that you reference about the double-standard was the reality that was created by males being in power over minorities (and abusing that power) in history. I wasn't there for it - you probably weren't either. (Wait, maybe it didn't happen since we didn't see it...)

In history, yes. In history. These days, a woman can make a false accusation of rape - and even if the truth comes out, she's handled with kid gloves and won't even get the same punishment she attempted to fuck the man over with. A single accusation of rape, of sexism, of racism, of homophobia, can destroy someone's career - but more so if they're white, heterosexual and/or a man.

If you're a white, straight man, you're pretty much fucked if a black lesbian decides to take you to the cleaners.

Recipe for seeing harassment:
1) Take a girl onto xbox live with a gender neutral name.
2) Let her say less than 5 sentences regarding the game.
3) Watch the harassment unfold.
4) Need a replay? Repeat steps 1-3.

That's Live you're talking about. Your argument falls apart round about the same time that *anybody* who goes onto Live gets their shit verbally torn. The only difference is that, as I've previously stated (Possibly in another topic) the ignorant children on Live have to think for 0.0005 seconds less when it comes to picking a form of attack in the case of a black lesbian than they would if I were to enter a server.

Sorry you don't see the point of female only servers and teams...

I don't see the point of [ANYBODY]-only servers and teams. I used to play Warcraft 3 online, and the number of <CRITERIA>-only servers I saw pissed me off. I entered as many as I could, just to prove that I could. I hated people deciding that I wasn't allowed to enter their server simply because of one unimportant factor or another - which is why I never made a server like that myself.

The female only environment is not making the problem worse. It is addressing the problem that already exists.

I didn't say your experiences weren't valid (as you eagerly decided was the point). I said that they are not absolute because you claim to not see the harassment and yet you keep arguing a point that you have no basis to prove isn't happening. Then you acknowledge that it is happening on Live. ("oh Live you meant, of course it is happening there...") Of course, you dismiss it as ignorant children which again, is not all that we are dealing with here.

The argument doesn't fall apart - everyone is harassed - I know. But a room full of people -- the girl is getting the most harassment.

One must seek to understand arguments from both sides. I understand your point and gave credence to it. Your dismiss ours because you have decided it to be so.

I stated I am sorry to see that the equality issue still exists, which you have to make the point again (and we girl gamers have the axe to grind?) but it is what it is because of what exists. Unfortunately, there isn't some statute of limitations on it when people forget history and the like - but girl gamers aren't to blame. And I had nothing to say on the issue until the topic of my clan was brought up. So some of us really do play in peace. Sure - on female only servers. The horror!

Sorry it isn't simpler or your way, but when you find the secret to Utopia, feel free to give me a ring.

Blayze, what you fail to realize is this:

Some girl gamers are afraid to step into the world of gaming because of the harassment that occurs (and yes, it does occur, I've witnessed it many many times). You wouldn't take someone who is afraid to swim and throw them head-first into the deep end of a swimming pool. What the PMS|H2O Clan provides is a safe environment, or "shallow-end of the pool," for girls to get their feet wet in a game by playing with other females AND MALES THAT SUPPORT GIRLS IN GAMING. As a member in PMS|H2O, I can tell you that there is no forced segregation between the males and females. The only difference between them is their clan tag (Mostly because PMS Clan Inc. is a founded corporation). The majority of our divisions are co-ed, with guys and girls playing together.

I've been ostracized and shunned many times for my supposedly misogynistic views on certain things by complete strangers, meanwhile those who know me know I'm anything but, as I tend to be much harsher in judgment on my own sex overall... but surface viewers may take the concepts and opinions I express here to mean that I supposedly believe that women should be kept in kitchens or in chains only serving to do her master's bidding... to those people I say simply:

Shut up and go away. You are not intelligent enough to be entitled to an opinion, let alone one you feel the need to express. (Now get back into the kitchen and make me a god d*mned sandwhich!) ;) (Take a joke people... seriously.)

Now, moving on...

I believe that there has been a sweeping trend in women to seek to attain emotional equality with men as of the last decade or so; with that movement growing exponentially in the most recent years. Now stop yourselves for a second and take a moment to reflect on the meaning of equality. I am not in any way shape or form saying that men are 'superior' to women; equality can be defined that way in many cases, but in this case I turn to a dictionary definition of equality that states that the term equal means: "Uniform in operation or effect." See, when I hear equality that is the idea that my mind points to; uniform in function, in process. My piano and my guitar both create music, but that does not make them equal. One is not superior to the other (shut up pianists) but they can create equivalent product with completely different form and operation. In that way I consider them... "balanced."

It's in this caveat that we sometimes fall, the confusing equality with balance. I find that men and women have gone away from striving to achieve "balance" in the effort to attain "equality." I am sure that I will get destroyed for saying this, but when it comes to function, to operation; Men and Women are not equal, nor should they be. However, in recent years, the feminist struggle for equality in rights and opportunity has violently spilled over into a subsequent push for equality in emotional operation.

I always laugh every time I see a bumper sticker that reads "Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History," because you could easily replace "Women" with "people" and it would mean the same thing. The beautiful irony in this is that in order to make their point, they are inadvertently showing that they do not want to be equal at all, and that they have to be un-ordinarily crass or objectionable in order to have any sort of impact on society. This again has translated into the way some modern women view and enact their behaviors. The traditional idea of the "alpha male" has been around for a very long time, so in order to attain equality women are trying to overtake men in that dominant, alpha-type role. Anyone with a quarter of a brain should be able to see the irony of that previous sentence.

I think we as a global society need to learn to accept that equality in the sense of equal emotional operation and dominance can never be achieved, and strive for a sense of balance instead. The gender of the role does not matter so much as the existence of the role itself. If you look to generations past, the idea of supporter/provider (regardless of gender) has been a successful one, and the happiest and most successful of couples are those who have found roles with one another that are in no way equal, but complimentary... balanced. Acceptance and the embracing of differences that help fuel good day-to-day social and emotional interaction are what glues people together, not the consistent struggle to prove one's equality/superiority to the other; that can only breed unproductive conflict.

I'm not saying in the least that all women should be "Miss Susie Homemaker Mommy" and all men should "Bring Home the Bacon", but if that's the way it works for people, that does not mean it is evil, like some would have you believe. The important thing is that we know what role we can fit into as a person, not as a gender; and then to find someone that can balance us out. We are not equal, but if we cannot learn to accept that, we will forever push ourselves into a world where no two people can ever learn to truly coexist for the rest of their lives.

And there, I just made a social statement on girls in gaming without even talking about gaming. Point: Ryan.

I can tell you I get ridiculed for having a pink PSP far more than you ever would.

Seriously though... girls in gaming are not striving for balance, they are trying to prove superiority. Why go for the "most girls at a LAN party" record and try for the "Most people in attendance at a LAN party" record. As a man, and a mediocre gamer, would I even be allowed to join an "all female clan"? It's ironic to me that women don't want to hear the "I don't care if you're a girl stop highlighting your gender" argument when they complain about how their gender is highlighted in the gaming world. I think a lot of us are TRYING to ignore it and we're not being allowed to. Girls aren't 'ridiculed' for being girls in games no more than anyone is being ridiculed on any point that makes them unique. Have you played on Xbox live? Any single definable point that makes someone slightly different than Joe Average is mocked to the fullest possible extent, and sometimes it's even the fact that a person is 'average' and has nothing to be made fun of. This chip seriously needs to come off your shoulder very quickly; women have lost most of their credibility in the argument overall and now are just highlighting that fact. In fact, I'd say even by bringing it up in any way, you're setting yourselves back a few notches each time; but maybe that's what you want? Maybe in realizing that people don't care as much that you're female gamers, your badge you wore so defiantly has lost some of its luster?

If you want to stand out as females that's fine, but don't stand out by telling people how much you don't want to stand out...

Seriously... our little man-brains can't take that kind of double-reverse psychology.

ryanegeiger:
Seriously though... girls in gaming are not striving for balance, they are trying to prove superiority.

That right there is a stereotype that is just as bad as the harassment some girl gamers receive. We're not saying that every single girl out there gets harassed, but it is unfair for others to say that not a single one does either.

Not every girl gamer is trying to prove superiority. As with the PMS Clan... they aren't trying to segregate themselves or dominate anything; they just want to exist peacefully, which apparently isn't possible with this audience.

Gotta agree with kanada514's first post: Why create a clan especially for women? That's walling yourself off. It makes you different. Girls need to be among the gaming community if they want to be generally accepted. Then it wouldn't be a surprise to see one every now and then. Herding all into one group is contraproductive imho.

Also, some girls seem to make a big deal out of them being a girl.
I was playing an RTS, teamgame, when suddenly one players says "btw, I'm a girl".
Nobody responded, we just kept playing like before, because it was simply _irrelevant_ for the game at hand.

EDIT: lol, I just browsed through the articles and didn't even realise how old this one was...

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