Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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Nadsat:

PegasusJF:
Yahtzee clearly has not, and from what I have gathered from your previous rant, neither have you.

Elaborate, please. Use that superior EVE-playing intellect to mentally destroy me, I beg of you

re, your last post and this one come to think of it, and tbh it probably applies to a lot of people in this thread.

Posting in the style of Yahtzee in one of his threads just makes you look pathetic.

You know...I think a better MMO for the space scene is SpaceCowboys/Flysis/AirRivals. There's too much to even explain about that game in a post that I feel like typing this early in the morning. But it totally rocks and it's free.

Nadsat:

PegasusJF:
Yahtzee clearly has not, and from what I have gathered from your previous rant, neither have you.

Elaborate, please. Use that superior EVE-playing intellect to mentally destroy me, I beg of you

given that's the best you can muster, i think he probably has.

I think there is a big difference between 'interesting' and 'fun'.

This thread is still going? I've got to say Eve has one of the worst communities I've seen in an MMORPG, and that says something. Its like they believe that Eve is so wonderful, such a gift from the gods if you don't like it you are some kind of sub-human experiment that shouldn't be allowed out of your house.. Oddly enough that sums up how everyone else thinks of Eve Players.

If you really don't get why people hate Eve its simple, the game is so complicated and downright hostile to new players.. The people behind the game hired an economic professional.. FOR THE GAME WORLD.. The game requires a degree in spreadsheets and a love for math. So the fact is you either hate it or you love it, there is no middle ground with Eve because the game is so BORING to most of us.

Khazoth:
This thread is still going? I've got to say Eve has one of the worst communities I've seen in an MMORPG, and that says something. Its like they believe that Eve is so wonderful, such a gift from the gods if you don't like it you are some kind of sub-human experiment that shouldn't be allowed out of your house.. Oddly enough that sums up how everyone else thinks of Eve Players.

For some reaosn I think your experience with EVE is highly limited. Let me guess, you tried the trial for a few hours then quit?

In any case, your post describes idiotic players in general, not just EVE players as you can clearly see who the abusive ones are in this thread. Its the non-EVE players that lowers the combined IQ in this thread.

I quit some time ago but I played eve for a while and I have some comments. Alarm bells rang in this review when you said you wouldn't be joining any player corporations. If you are not doing this or engaging in pvp then you absolutely have not played the part of the game that is unique. The huge population of high sec dwelling mission runners are just lemmings who really want to play WOW in space. The real fun is that in low sec and 0.0, you can do whatever you want, the stronger and more intelligent party are always the victors. Onto skills, there are a certain few skills that are pretty necessary to be effective but really it's not the point of the game to get your character as high level as possible. What you learn when you are a really high level character is that it often doesn't mean all that much. New characters with superior numbers and tactics will beat clumsy old characters. There are giant corporations (Goonswarm etc) that made themselves large from using swarms of new players to overwhelm stronger enemies.

I don't think much of this review, as you really havn't explored anything of the game.

Played Eve for two days and gave up. It's got a learning curve steeper than K2. And I ain't gots no hiking boots. Just seems like the developers were so smug but ended up proverbiably shooting themselves in the foot by making a game that instantly turns off people who cannot devote themselves completely to their oh-so-complicated game.

anyone want to hire kugutsumen for some "speacial job" ^^

keep it up dude! What i love about ZP is that they all have the same HIGH level of humor.
not one is lower than any other video, keep it up yahtzee!

Wow, he was right! An EVE advert flickered in the corner of my eye throughout watching this review...

...a good review BTW...

Wow there's a lot of posts on this one already. Sorry but I'm not gonna read 11 pages of 'Eve sucks' 'No it doesn't' 'Yes it does'. Since I have an Eve blog, however, here is my review of the review. I apologise in advance for raking over old ground, if that is what it does:

Despite not owning a console I watch the reviews by ZP each week (in much the same way as I watch Top Gear despite not having a car) and was suprised and delighted this week to find that he was reviewing my dear favourite Eve.

In the way of such things I should offer a riposte to the review as a hardcore fan:

Right at the outset ZP states he isn't going to have anything to do with corporations. Well, OK. That being, kind of, uh, the point of Eve, you may as well stop here. That's like stating you're going to review WOW but you don't want to have anything to do with any of that magic palaver.

Cue lots of jokes about overweight bespectacled smelly whiny nerds. Erm. I don't think I fall into any of those categories, but the only other person I know in the real world who plays Eve does, so it makes me wonder... Well, he isn't whiny, but I kind of am at times, so I guess we make a set.

Bored, bored, bored, eyestrain. As a summary of Eve it leaves out a lot, but I can accept it. I certainly find myself bored a lot, and were it not for the fact of the timebased training system I would probbaly have quit. However that means you hang in there waiting for some interesting expansion that is always just around the corner because then you will be so much more uber than the newbies who have just been pulled in, haha. Fortunately usually you end up making something interesting to do yourself, this being a sandbox, and you having the benefit of YOUR CORPORATION.

Then there is the 'I don't understand it so it's rubbish' argument. Er, no. I don't think I even need to point out the flaw in this one.

Zp next complains that battles are of the 'fight till you look like you're going to lose then try to run away' variety. Erm. Isn't that true of all battles? Not just in gaming, but in the real world too. That's rather like complaining that when you played this game you still needed oxygen.

The training system; yes, it isn't perfect. I would like something that increased with how much you played the game. Oh wait a minute, there is. The more you play the game the more you understand it, something that isn't necessary in WOW and the like because you understand them after about three hours. Plus you get money and better social standing with NPC's, which pays off in its own ways too.

'Missions are all just variations on go here and shoot things'. Well, yes. I'll give you that one. I would like to see more complexity in missions but as they are just one of the million things you can do and mainly aimed at casual players it doesn't really concern me too much.

Ultimately I think you missed the point of Eve, ZP, because you failed to understand what a corporation is. If you think that it means you get given a cubicle and are told to sort beans till we get back to you you are imposing wow-like grind onto the terminology of Eve and making two plus two equal 3.

I hate this particular piece of terminology, but there is an apt two-word summary for this review.

ZP: Epic Fail.

paliente:
I played this game for 30 mins and then uninstalled it. Very spot-on review

ROFLMAO.

How would you know? 30 minutes!!! FFS.

I came to this same conclusion after years of playing EVE, and then eventually trying to start up my own Player Corporation.

Basically, I got something which was akin to (read: identical to) MMO Addiction, and had to give them up all together because I was suddenly placing recruiting idiots higher than entering into the "kissing ladies" prize draw at my local social gatherings.

Plus, it's really, really, really, really BORING like you wouldn't believe, but brain-washed addicts (read: ultror-nerdzards) like myself can tolerate for hours on end.

You can spend entire play-sessions docked in a station and not be motivated at all to leave.

Tranka Verrane:
Wow there's a lot of posts on this one already. Sorry but I'm not gonna read 11 pages of 'Eve sucks' 'No it doesn't' 'Yes it does'. Since I have an Eve blog, however, here is my review of the review. I apologise in advance for raking over old ground, if that is what it does:

Despite not owning a console I watch the reviews by ZP each week (in much the same way as I watch Top Gear despite not having a car) and was suprised and delighted this week to find that he was reviewing my dear favourite Eve.

In the way of such things I should offer a riposte to the review as a hardcore fan:

Right at the outset ZP states he isn't going to have anything to do with corporations. Well, OK. That being, kind of, uh, the point of Eve, you may as well stop here. That's like stating you're going to review WOW but you don't want to have anything to do with any of that magic palaver.

Cue lots of jokes about overweight bespectacled smelly whiny nerds. Erm. I don't think I fall into any of those categories, but the only other person I know in the real world who plays Eve does, so it makes me wonder... Well, he isn't whiny, but I kind of am at times, so I guess we make a set.

Bored, bored, bored, eyestrain. As a summary of Eve it leaves out a lot, but I can accept it. I certainly find myself bored a lot, and were it not for the fact of the timebased training system I would probbaly have quit. However that means you hang in there waiting for some interesting expansion that is always just around the corner because then you will be so much more uber than the newbies who have just been pulled in, haha. Fortunately usually you end up making something interesting to do yourself, this being a sandbox, and you having the benefit of YOUR CORPORATION.

Then there is the 'I don't understand it so it's rubbish' argument. Er, no. I don't think I even need to point out the flaw in this one.

Zp next complains that battles are of the 'fight till you look like you're going to lose then try to run away' variety. Erm. Isn't that true of all battles? Not just in gaming, but in the real world too. That's rather like complaining that when you played this game you still needed oxygen.

The training system; yes, it isn't perfect. I would like something that increased with how much you played the game. Oh wait a minute, there is. The more you play the game the more you understand it, something that isn't necessary in WOW and the like because you understand them after about three hours. Plus you get money and better social standing with NPC's, which pays off in its own ways too.

'Missions are all just variations on go here and shoot things'. Well, yes. I'll give you that one. I would like to see more complexity in missions but as they are just one of the million things you can do and mainly aimed at casual players it doesn't really concern me too much.

Ultimately I think you missed the point of Eve, ZP, because you failed to understand what a corporation is. If you think that it means you get given a cubicle and are told to sort beans till we get back to you you are imposing wow-like grind onto the terminology of Eve and making two plus two equal 3.

I hate this particular piece of terminology, but there is an apt two-word summary for this review.

ZP: Epic Fail.

You: Epic Bias.

Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.

I found exactly what Yatzhee found wrong with Eve. It's slow, it's boring, without joining a corp or PvPing against people weaker than you there's nothing to it except 'go to this asteroid, kill these guys, wait three months for your skills to increase.'

A 14-day free trial is supposed to bring you into the game. It's supposed to make you excited to play the game, and THEN spring the - 'oh, you really should join a PvP guild or you'll find this incredibly boring.' Eve failed to drag me into it at all.

Immersion - that big happy word - is more important for an MMO than for any other type of game. If you don't feel like you're part of the world, part of the game, you're not going to want to play. Immersion and user-friendliness are both important, and Eve fails on both parts of this.

I really like EVE. I think to really get the most of it you need to get a subscription account to unlock the rest of the ships and spend a couple of weeks building up a character. Then you'll be reasonably ready for some PvP fights, which are more exciting because you're risking losing things you spent a couple of weeks working for.

And yes, it's incredibly boring, just like World Of Warcraft, Halo, Monopoly, Chess and every other game that's been invented, ever since mankind discovered boredom and the need to alleviate it.

Arkitext:

You: Epic Bias.

OMG I can't believe you quoted my entire post to add that, without any kind of justification or explanation of what you meant.

Eve has flaws. Many, many flaws. I would have been entertained by a thoughtful dissection of them. ZP's review failed to cover any of them and just repeated a series of very fatuous observations and showed he had missed the entire point of the game. As this is the game he has reviewed that I know best it makes me doubt everything else he has ever said. Maybe Super Smash Bros Brawl is the greatest game ever made. Maybe Prince of Persia sucks.

The Sorrow:
Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.

So buy a fucking wii if you can't handle a bit of virtual economics or strategy in your games. Some people can find fun in more complex games.

Anyone who defends this as a serious review when it doesn't even give the game a proper look is a moron.

Yahtzee you are right again.

To all the people ho play EVE: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE! you actually have to click somewhere in space to get where you want!

If there is any real spacesim multiplayer game that is actually worth anything it's Freelancer.
It has: A decent controll system, lots of space, you can do whatever you want (it's the spacesims answer to GTA), you have a reputation(friend with one faction might mean anotherone gets angry at you), you have lots of cool weapons/spaceships/stations. And most importantly the community is better than in any other game I have ever tried!

If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.

I can't say I disagree with Yahtzee with this, but I found this review painfully samey. I'm getting pretty bored with the semi valid point -> partly shocking analogy -> move on to the next point formula.

Give me something new.

I don't have Eve online so I cannot comment on that. However I have played MMO's in my time and have noticed all of them have the ability to make time fly and also you get addicted. Whether this is a good thing or not I don't know but I do feel I could have spent my time more wisely after playing.

The Sorrow:

One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.

I played call of duty for about 5 minutes, running around at some indoor training ground wtf boring as hell piece of shit game.

Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.

I expect games to be fun the instant I power up my console/computer. If not its not fun.

I hope you see the error of your opinion.

vlanitak:
Yahtzee you are right again.

To all the people ho play EVE: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE! you actually have to click somewhere in space to get where you want!

If there is any real spacesim multiplayer game that is actually worth anything it's Freelancer.
It has: A decent controll system, lots of space, you can do whatever you want (it's the spacesims answer to GTA), you have a reputation(friend with one faction might mean anotherone gets angry at you), you have lots of cool weapons/spaceships/stations. And most importantly the community is better than in any other game I have ever tried!

If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.

EVE isnt freelancer, nor does it try to be. EVE is more like a space version of command&conquer rather a combat flight sim.

It's really frustrating to read peoples opinion of EVE when they dont even know what type of game it is.

bigwillystyles:

The Sorrow:
Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.

So buy a fucking wii if you can't handle a bit of virtual economics or strategy in your games. Some people can find fun in more complex games.

Anyone who defends this as a serious review when it doesn't even give the game a proper look is a moron.

Or maybe they all have a point. Concepts such as "realism" are really great and all, but I don't think I'd want to play a Call of Duty game where you have to deal with "real" military issues, such as paying your troops a monthly wage, paying their benefits, dealing with the press you're getting at home about how your invasion of Iraq is unjustified etcetera etcetera.

EVE does not sound fun. EVE sounds like more work than my fucking job!

Great how nerds can close their heads of to not read. So let's put it simple in a few sentences so nobody can complain:

1) Games are not for socializing. If you need that you are either a big emo or have no life. Games are for fun, tickling, mind challenging or just giving you a great time. If you need there a socializing system to get friends... then you utterly failed at life :D

2) Tactics and strategy is if both sides have equal abilities and resources and using them clever cuts the deal. 100 versus 1 is NOT strategy NOR tactics it's just fucking GB ( Gang-Banging ) and is called a loosers battle. MMOs are full of such loosers

3) A demo is here to show you how good a game is. If it fails to do so after 14 days the entire game fails. Also if a game requires half a year to get to the good bits it fails too. And if you are mostly watching the CPU play for you the game fails too.

Shorter than that is not possible.

bigwillystyles:

The Sorrow:
Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.

So buy a fucking wii if you can't handle a bit of virtual economics or strategy in your games. Some people can find fun in more complex games.
Anyone who defends this as a serious review when it doesn't even give the game a proper look is a moron.

Or, he could y'know... not. Instead, he could stick by his opinion and not enjoy the game. And all clever rebuttals you come up with about someone being a casual gamer won't change that. I used/kind of still do/hoping to break an addiction to WoW, but I have friends who hate it. I know that no matter how many times I tell them how fun winning Arathi Basin is, it won't make them suddenly see the error of the ways, take out a subscription, make a Troll Priest and join me on Lumber Mill defense.

So yes, some people can handle "virtual economics or strategy in your games" and "Some people can find fun in more complex games", some people however can't, and do enjoy the Wii, or Halo, or CoD4. Because someone doesn't find EVE as fun as you doesn't make them a lesser person, and because you enjoy EVE, it doesn't make you a lesser person.

Wargamer:

EVE does not sound fun. EVE sounds like more work than my fucking job!

What is sounds like, and what it is, are two completely different things. I think champagne sounds crap, but I know it tastes great.

Odjin:
Great how nerds can close their heads of to not read. So let's put it simple in a few sentences so nobody can complain:

Oh snap! A person on an internet forum dedicated to gaming called me a nerd. I'll never get laid now :(

Ben has developed a habit of sacrificing content for scathing commentary. While much of his review focused on EVE specifically, the large part was simply a critique of characteristics to MMORPG's generally. That's not particularly helpful. MMORPGs, like all video games, assume that gamers appreciate and enjoy certain activities. That includes leveling up, killing monsters, and suspending disbelief.

Imagine if a reviewer said, "Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Portal, and Half-Life 2 all suck. All of these games are just a bunch of console clicking mass of pictures and sounds. You just stare at a screen for hours. None of it is real. The Combine are fake. Master Chief is fake. Why would you waste your time pretending to be something that does not exist? Thus, all of these games are crap."

It's a critique sure, but not really a good one. Games and certain gaming genres have basic characteristics to them. FPSs have guns, etc. Attack those in a game, and you are not really critiquing the game but the genre, which is not a terribly useful review.

Ben knows better. His earlier reviews show it.

Vitalix:
Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Portal, and Half-Life 2 all suck. All of these games are just a bunch of console clicking mass of pictures and sounds. You just stare at a screen for hours. None of it is real. The Combine are fake. Master Chief is fake. Why would you waste your time pretending to be something that does not exist? Thus, all of these games are crap.

Damn straight.

vlanitak:
Yahtzee you are right again.
If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.

sweet, give me your address and then you'd better wander out and get a box and a huge spoon, because in my opinion freelancer sucked. X3 was superior in every aspect.

nastykerm:

Wargamer:

EVE does not sound fun. EVE sounds like more work than my fucking job!

What is sounds like, and what it is, are two completely different things. I think champagne sounds crap, but I know it tastes great.

Firstly, champagne is crap. Especially when it isn't actually champagne.

Secondly, I doubt I would like EVE even if I tried it. It's the whole "summary on the cover" thing. Take Viking. A lot of people told me Viking was a "bad" game, but I loved it. Why? Because if I had to sum the game up in one line, it would be thus:

You are a Viking sent to slaughter entire armies with a fucking big sword and a fucking big axe and you have dragons helping out.

Vikings?
Slaughtering entire armies?
Fucking big sword?
Dragons?

SCORE!

Would anyone care to sum up EVE in one sentence? I realise you probably can't, what with the game being so very complex, but it makes a point - you CAN'T convince me in one line. Oops, sorry, you're out of time! I'm already listening to the next guy whose game lets me pick up circular saw blades with a Gravity Gun and fire them at Zombies.

I am not going to sink my money into a "maybe". I need something that will reel me in hook, line and sinker. Some games can do that whilst still being big and clever, whilst others can't. I may have been drawn into Warhammer due to its truly Epic background, but I can't deny I was drawn into Puzzle Pirates because of the second word in the title.

Wargamer:

Firstly, champagne is crap. Especially when it isn't actually champagne.

That didnt make much sense.

Secondly, I doubt I would like EVE even if I tried it. It's the whole "summary on the cover" thing. Take Viking. A lot of people told me Viking was a "bad" game, but I loved it. Why? Because if I had to sum the game up in one line, it would be thus:

You are a Viking sent to slaughter entire armies with a fucking big sword and a fucking big axe and you have dragons helping out.

Vikings?
Slaughtering entire armies?
Fucking big sword?
Dragons?

SCORE!

Would anyone care to sum up EVE in one sentence? I realise you probably can't, what with the game being so very complex, but it makes a point - you CAN'T convince me in one line. Oops, sorry, you're out of time! I'm already listening to the next guy whose game lets me pick up circular saw blades with a Gravity Gun and fire them at Zombies.

I am not going to sink my money into a "maybe". I need something that will reel me in hook, line and sinker. Some games can do that whilst still being big and clever, whilst others can't. I may have been drawn into Warhammer due to its truly Epic background, but I can't deny I was drawn into Puzzle Pirates because of the second word in the title.

I'm not trying to convince you. What I'm trying to say is that EVE isnt crap for the reasons mentioned in the review, not the reason most people have given as they obviously dont know what EVE actually is.

Different strokes for different folks and, not your cup of tea etc etc. Just because I dont like guitar hero type of games, doesnt mean I will automatically say its crap. It's just not my type of game.

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