Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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OMG i live in cheltenham. wow. :)

why Yahtzee dont post here any more ? put first post and run away bloody carebear

First of all: I did play EVE for a month, after a month I felt I didn't get into the game. That only says this: YOU WILL HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME FOR A LONG TIME AND GET ADDICTED TO IT, thats how you get into the game. I normaly get addicted to every Spacesim I try, that includes: X2, X3, Freespace 1 and 2, X-wing alliance, Rouge leader, Starlancer, Freelancer and more. When I do not get addicted to what many people call the greatest sapcesim ever that tells me: No this is not the game for me, I did not like it enough! or as with EVE: ******** HATE IT!!!!

Secondly: So you can't drive a battleship and cruiser with a joystick? The Void server for freelancer lets you fly the huge spaceships in Freelancer, and you can DAMN well fly those with a joystick!! www.voidserver.com

Oh and I was also addicted to Jumpgate.

vlanitak:
I normaly get addicted to every Spacesim I try, that includes: X2, X3, Freespace 1 and 2, X-wing alliance, Rouge leader, Starlancer, Freelancer and more.

******** HATE IT!!!!

Secondly: So you can't drive a battleship and cruiser with a joystick? The Void server for freelancer lets you fly the huge spaceships in Freelancer, and you can DAMN well fly those with a joystick!! www.voidserver.com

Oh and I was also addicted to Jumpgate.

EVE *is not* a spacesim like freelancer or x-wing! You are comparing apples and remote controlls. I really wish people could have an educated opion on EVE before they rubbish it.

so.... it's a one of a kind game? It has it's own genre maybe?
Games with sapceships are normaly spacsims.

I find it ridiculous just how many people are flinging "If it takes two weeks to be fun, then it's not fun." or similar. I just can't help but laugh at the trend for people to instantly whine about a game being "too linear" and as soon as a game which isn't linear at all is put in front of them they can't comprehend having to make their own decisions about what to do.

EVE is the polar opposite to those games which hold your hand; taking you from place to place and showing you precisely when, where and how to have fun that everyone hates, including Yahtzee, because they don't give you any sort of freedom or control.

EVE is far from perfect, I'll definitely admit that some polish would be preferred over yet another content update but that's not the debate here. The reason that people log into a 14 day trial and don't have fun for an entire two weeks is because they think that the game is going to grab their hand and point into the horizon, shouting "THE FUN IS THAT WAY!". It's not.

With EVE you have to make your own fun. Before you start shouting about "Why would I pay for a game where I have to make my own fun, the game should be fun in it's own right!"; that isn't what I mean. EVE doesn't have quests, levels or even a significant loot table like WoW. There are no raids to grind and epics to collect. There are no set PvP arenas that you can go to.

EVE gives you the freedom that everyone seems to be looking for in MMOs, but perhaps it gives you too much. The average gamer will be thrown out into the cold at the start of the trial going "what do I do?!" and will ultimately miss out because they think that they HAVE to sit and mine ore in their newbie system or do dull repetitive missions.

I have no mining skills and I have never done any missions past the ones in the tutorial and one or two level one missions. The fun in EVE is whatever you make of it, you make your own goals. As an example, I PVP almost exclusively in tech 1 frigates with tech 1 equipment. The sort of thing that even a new player with a 14 day trial account can afford with a few hours of mining, mission running, scavenging or pirating. The trick is that I have a small pack of friends in similar ships, each having fittings which complement each other. We can easily take out small groups of cruisers, battle cruisers and even the odd battleship. You can do this right off the bat, all you need is a few friends and someone to give you a little bit of advice about which skills do what. It's not WoW; the higher "level" players are not immune to the lower level ones and they can be taken out easily with careful planning. We can win because our ships are small and fast, thus difficult to hit with larger, slower guns; and most of our ships have bonuses to electronic warfare, allowing us to effectively cripple our target, disable his weapons and hold him there until we pop him. It is far from just targeting, activating weapons and seeing who dies first; it's just a shame that the learning curve is so immense. I understand why it could be daunting to most people.

The only other thing that I really have to say in my defense is that I don't really care whether anyone here likes EVE or not. It's not the best game in the world and it certainly isn't everyones cup of tea; but I like it and that is all that matters. The reason that I am defending it so enthusiastically is not because of some desire to convince you that I am right and your are all wrong. It's because I have had a great time playing EVE once I stopped trying to play it as a single player game and I see reviews such as this one who don't even give it a chance and I feel that those people are totally missing out of something which they could be enjoying as much as I have enjoyed it. It's not in defense of the game or of my hobby, if you played EVE in the way that I am describing it and still didn't like it then that's fine. I just don't like when people miss out, is all.

This, strangely, is the first time that Yahtzee hasn't given a game a fair review. What he has done here is like playing portal and trying to play it without portal gun. You've missed out on the whole point of the game. EVE is ABOUT the social aspect, and the teamwork you get from joining a corporation (just another name for a guild, nothing like a second job at all.)

Never mind though, it was funny and I suppose that's the point. I'm hardly going to stop tuning into zero punctuation over it.

vlanitak:
so.... it's a one of a kind game? It has it's own genre maybe?
Games with sapceships are normaly spacsims.

Yes, you can easily say it has its own genre as there are no other games as complex or with the same mechanics as eve. By your logic, defender or space invaders is a space sim. If EVE is any type of sim, its a war sim as combat is more than just doing loops with your joystick. It involves industry, logistics, millitary intelligence, planning, coordination and execution.

Yes defender and alien invader are spacesims. they are maybe not the best spacesims, but they are still spacesims.

I will say that EVE is a combination of a spacesim and a gigantic war strategy game (a bit like the Hearts of Iron series which in my opinion is AWESOME) But as I decided to rethink the words I said before I have come to conclusion: I do not like that combination. The thing of mixing spacesims with extreme strategy is in my opinion a failure. Sorry for this but if it was up to me, which it is not, EVE would never excited.

Oh and I like the meaningless looping in spaceships TBH:D

Okay I've seen the review and make a second comment on this thread:
Come on every one of his whines are because he is a noob! Of course you're gonna find the interface confusing if you've only just started trying to understand it - of course fighting's gonna be kicking each other at early parts of the game when ships are piss underdeveloped.

Why is he whining about not having to level up skills? He holds it against the game that he doesn't have to spend all his waking hours at the keyboard?

Half the skills you need for weapons on the market which are pretty decent only cost about one mission's worth of gold (EDIT: haha see that? yeah i'll admit it i converted to this game from WoW after playing it blizz's behemoth for three or more years) and u learn them in about 20-60 minutes, come on! And speaking of missions some of them are pretty fun/funny (i.e. delivering meds to a planet only to find that a nearby planet is the one to get hit by an outbreak)

He's dissing out EvE because he expects it to be like WoW - expects u to have to physically grind ur skills, expects fighting to be pretty much the only way to play the game... He even admits that he is not joining a corporation or making his own one (14 days is more than enough time to have a random person invite u to a corp, i did it in about 20 minutes)

Ah whatever, he's stretched for ideas and pretty soon he'd better just be quiet, and go shower, fix his hygiene, which must be pretty bad if it's all he ever talks about when describing fellow gamers.

I will however give him props if he levels his dissing where it's deserved. He should like walk all up and down the face of a fifa game or some such franchise - those games are just large assemblies of cliches and repeat failures.

vlanitak:
Yes defender and alien invader are spacesims. they are maybe not the best spacesims, but they are still spacesims.

Uh no, they are more like scrollers.

The thing of mixing spacesims with extreme strategy is in my opinion a failure.

And why is that, do you saythat space isnt to be mixed with things that requires intelligence?

Sorry for this but if it was up to me, which it is not, EVE would never excited.

Then the gaming industry would be poorer.

Is there any way the Escapist or Yahtzee would make these videos available for hdd download? Thanks to an infrastructure blackspot, the best net connection I can get is 56.6k dialup. I love Yahtzee's work, and enjoy watching each episode repeatedly, but it's extremely painful to have to wait 45 to 90 mins for each episode to load to the point where I can start playing it.

if you download realplayer, then you can download the episodes from the web. This works in Iexplorer, it doesn't work in firefox 3 unfortunately

koshua:

Wargamer:
Would anyone care to sum up EVE in one sentence?

Having played a great deal of Eve in the background of my everyday work, I can agree with Yahtzee on something. Here's your one sentence:

"Eve is an ultra-slow-paced online multiplayer executive 3D toy, simulating both the economy and combat of a galactic-scale conflict between empires."

Thanks for that, though it just reinforces my believe EVE isn't worth getting in to. :)

urprobablyright:
Ah whatever, he's stretched for ideas and pretty soon he'd better just be quiet, and go shower, fix his hygiene, which must be pretty bad if it's all he ever talks about when describing fellow gamers.

Please tell me this is satire. Please tell me everything you've ever said ever is satire.

Great job.
I always look forward to your posts, they make my mornings..keep up the good work guy.

Thats why I can't wait for JGE, its like EVE but its faster and theres more to combat than click and walk away. Also navigation doesn't suck like EVE which turned me right off EVE in the trial

By my logic, as you said, alien invader and defender are sapcesims, galaga to are a spacesim I might add.

I don't have anything against thinking game (thats why I play Hearts of iron 2), but in my opinion the mix of the two doesn't fit well. the thing of thinking while having to concentrate on flying a spaceships (which in f.eks Freelancer and Freespace have controls that needs your attention). Oh wait, I forgot, in EVE you don't fly your spacship, you point and click. So then it's only a strategy game where you have a spaceship. WOW I think we just found the only Spaceship game that isn't a spacesim!

My last post here, tired of arguing.

vlanitak: thanks for that. I'm getting realplayer now. In a few hours time, I'll be able to enjoy all the Yahtzee I want, once files get to my hdd heh.

vlanitak:
By my logic, as you said, alien invader and defender are sapcesims, galaga to are a spacesim I might add.

I think you need to work on your genre understanding.

I don't have anything against thinking game (thats why I play Hearts of iron 2), but in my opinion the mix of the two doesn't fit well.

Yes yes you have said this before, I'm asking you why you come to that conclusion. Please, allow me to say it for you, the reason why you think its a bad combination is because when you see space, your mind makes referances to x-wing and freelancer which is error on your brains behalf as they are completely different type of games.

It's like you dont like hammers because they dont work in the same way as screwdrivers.

Oh wait, I forgot, in EVE you don't fly your spacship, you point and click. So then it's only a strategy game where you have a spaceship.

Yes you forgot, finally you are starting to get it.

WOW I think we just found the only Spaceship game that isn't a spacesim!

My last post here, tired of arguing.

Finally.

EVE:Empyrean Age was "fun"

Since I already had a massive fleet (Amarr Empire) from Trinity, I just logged into the new game and kept playing. I only do this for the fun of it. It isnt Guild Wars, but it isnt WoW either. It's a "good" game, if you like Homeworld 2 and World of Warcraft that is.

I have the impression that most times it's more fun to watch the reviews than to play the actual game.

Also I looked EVE up after watching this and thanks to yahtzee I won't have to waste my time on it.

Cheers.

I enjoy Eve. Been playing it for almost two years now. There is no need for incessant grind, there are far more paths for you to take, and with the exception of ROOKIE HELP channel, has a considerably more mature player base. Also, I think MMO reviews are pointless, unless the reviewer has been playing for a couple months at least. It takes a lot longer to get anywhere in an MMO than in a single-player game. They are two different creatures and should be reviewed as such. Having said that, I don't understand people who get offended when Yahtzee disses their favorite game. Are you new here? It's what he does. Wash the sand out of your nethers, Nancy. It's just a review. And for those who won't try the game because Yahtzee didn't like it, try developing an independent thought of your own for once.

Meh, I didn't "get" eve either the first time I tried it. Or the second. I'm in now, and there is so much more to this game than anything he described.. Its unfortunate that people won't even try this game because of his review.....

I am a member of "Eve University" along with several other posters in this thread (noteably Kelduum Revaan - who posted here earlier: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.70442?page=4 ).

Eve Uni exists (and has for 4 years) to ease the transition for players from every other game out there, into Eve... CCP just provides the tools to play in the sandbox, its up to every player to figure out how to use those tools....

Bye the way, if you want to check Eve Online out, our public help channel is "Eve University" (w/out the quote marks).

There is a tab on the left side of the screen "Channels and Mailing Lists" - open it, click on the channel tab, "join" and type that in - we're there all the time and willing to help.

Good luck in whatever you do.

AK

Overall nice review, Eve Online... total rip off warcraft just involving flying ships :S

Its unfortunate that people won't even try this game because of his review.....

Yeah well it's not just that but also a hell lot of people's first opinion about the game was that it was 'boring'. Someone even made a vid on youtube about how boring it was.

I can deal with many things but if you need to 'receive a degree and enter several coresponding courses etc.' to actually have fun playing the game, then that's a big red light for me.

Likh:

I can deal with many things but if you need to 'receive a degree and enter several coresponding courses etc.' to actually have fun playing the game, then that's a big red light for me.

You don't. There are so many things to do in the game, that people often feel overwhelmed, especially since there are no spaceships with golden exclamation points on top, waiting to tell you what to do next. It has a learning curve considerably greater than WoW, but you can do basic mission running, if simple is your thing. Or start out with simple, and branch out from there into pirating, bounty hunting, market trading, research and development, or the tranquil (read: boring, yet profitable as hell) mining. And it just gets more advanced from there. I admit it's certainly not a mainstream game, and I wouldn't recommend it for old people and women (who should be baking pies anyway). But once you get hooked, it's hard to break away, because of the plethora of things to do. The hardest part is simply figuring out which thing you want to start off with, and go from there.

Oh and anyone can make a YouTube vid that makes the game seem very boring. And vice versa.

Watch the second half of this video (first half is stuff newbies wouldn't be interested in): http://www.evetube.com/index.php?playid=240

Or the ones here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/

Likh:

Its unfortunate that people won't even try this game because of his review.....

Yeah well it's not just that but also a hell lot of people's first opinion about the game was that it was 'boring'. Someone even made a vid on youtube about how boring it was.

I can deal with many things but if you need to 'receive a degree and enter several coresponding courses etc.' to actually have fun playing the game, then that's a big red light for me.

Well - I'm certainly not going to change your opinion, nor do I wish to. :-) However, your really doing anyone who is thinking of the game a disservice by dissing it so negatively.

I guess the biggest thing that attracted me to the game was the "risk" factor. In any other MMO or FPS that I know of, you get killed, its no biggie. Most of the items (from MMO's) stay with you. In FPS's you spawn, go out, pick up whatever is laying around and jump back into the fight... In Eve, you have to earn money to get the things you want.

RISK is what makes the PVP so outstanding. In Eve, you can loose your gear. Anything your flying, you can loose... Empire space is easier than low-sec, and low-sec is *somewhat* easier than null-sec space.

Meh, come try the game, JOIN an NPC Corp (even if its not mine) and talk to people - 99% of the time you can find something to like about the game...

AK

Asuri Kinnes:
RISK is what makes the PVP so outstanding. In Eve, you can loose your gear. Anything your flying, you can loose... Empire space is easier than low-sec, and low-sec is *somewhat* easier than null-sec space.

Well this actually does sound fun.

cosaides:
Watch the second half of this video (first half is stuff newbies wouldn't be interested in): http://www.evetube.com/index.php?playid=240

Or the ones here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/

Seen the warhammer online trailer?
http://www.war-europe.com/mediaplayer.html?flv=http%3A//download.goa.com/war/flv/WAR_Cinematic2_Full_EN.flv&width=576&height=344
A jawdropper indeed but says nothing about the game except the fact that it has nice graphics ;)

Ok... So all that Yahtzee has show here with this review is that he's too impatient to play a long haul planning based game, to narrow-minded about MMO combat to think there may be tactics involved, too antisocial to attempt to play co-operatively on a game specifically built around that need, and too stupid to understand the game mechanics even though he had two weeks to work them out.

Guess what, on behalf of the guys who play EVE Online. GO BACK TO WORLD OF WARCRAFT, it's an MMO more suited to your lack of patience, tactics and intelligence. As for your lack of social grace, I suggest console based First Person Shooters... simple point and click interface, no need to wait, think or employ any form of tactics, and best of all, no other players. These are more your style of game Yahtzee

If you're going to review EVE Online, play EVE Online.
You don't review Fable based only on the "childhood" part of the game.
You don't review KOTOR based on the character creation screen.
You don't review Final Fantasy VII based entirely on the Chocobo racing mini-game.
Don't review EVE on the beginner missions... they are effectively practice levels.

You're review sucked and severely lowered my opinion of you. EVE Online is far from the greatest and has enough bad points for you to rip it apart on, but all you did is show that you're too impatient, stupid, narrow-minded, and antisocial to play the game. I wouldn't want you playing honestly... you'd ruin it for the rest of us.

nastykerm:

insanelich:

Q.E.D.

Plus, I played Eve for two weeks and go so caught up in it I wanted to buy a sub. Until I realized I spent more time waiting than gaming and that I wasn't going to find a corp worth anything in a million years in Minmatar 1.0 space.

I must admit I'm a bit confused now. If you spent most of the time waiting, what was it that made you get caught up in it?

Finding a good corp can be a challenge, with all the diversity in EVE. But truth to be told, the starter systems (1.0-0.5) isn't the best places to look. What you should have been looking for (at the forums etc) is corporations who are established in low sec. It instantly transforms the playing field into something completely different than what you might experience in safe, empire space.

Id also like to make an additional comment, and thats to refute what some posters have said about older players being more powerful etc. This is completely false. Somethingawful came to EVE and formed an alliance that pretty much carved a name for themselves since day one. In the beginning they flew frigates and cruisers with crap equipment yet they still managed to kill stuff, and they worked their way up the ladder in a short amount of time. They competed with some of the biggest and oldest alliances in the game.

Grind - next ship - grind - next ship - grind - next ship.

At around my Stabber I realized what I was doing.

insanelich:
Grind - next ship - grind - next ship - grind - next ship.

At around my Stabber I realized what I was doing.

That sounds really boring.... perhaps you should have tried playing the game not grinding the game. Get involved in the tactics, and corp warfare. Try and set up an empire of your own. Do something interesting rather than try and get the next biggest ship out there.

I fly a damn interceptor, it's the smallest ship in the game. I'm damn good at it and it took me a couple of months, that's all. I can be more than useful in PVP taking down people who have taken years perfecting their battleship because when I'm there, no-one but me moves, am I move faster than the fucking rockets. That's fun.

Hilarious as usual. I tried a 14 day free trial too but it couldn't hold my attention for more then 3 days. And I play paradox games so it's not like I'm not used to huge complicated interfaces.

TornadoCreator:

insanelich:
Grind - next ship - grind - next ship - grind - next ship.

At around my Stabber I realized what I was doing.

That sounds really boring.... perhaps you should have tried playing the game not grinding the game. Get involved in the tactics, and corp warfare. Try and set up an empire of your own. Do something interesting rather than try and get the next biggest ship out there.

I fly a damn interceptor, it's the smallest ship in the game. I'm damn good at it and it took me a couple of months, that's all. I can be more than useful in PVP taking down people who have taken years perfecting their battleship because when I'm there, no-one but me moves, am I move faster than the fucking rockets. That's fun.

Do you rabid fanboys actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?
Because I can tell you, nothing. And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

insanelich:

Do you rabid fanboys

Excuse me, didn't you complain earlier about personal insults? I think you are a hypocrite.
You are a hypocrite with piss poor arguments. Everything you say is refuted by reasonable arguments even though you present none yourself, and the only thing you can do is to continue to lower yourself by snide generalizations.

actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?

Because I can tell you, nothing. And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

You don't make new characters in EVE, as there is no 'level cap'. Some people have alts, but you don't make a *new* character. And actually you are wrong, there are stuff in high sec you just have to stop expecting the game to hold your hand and guide you. Everyone starts in high sec, and high sec is mostly a trading hub and training grounds for new people. People living in deep space go there every now and then to buy items or ships at the best price.

I love when he reviews a game like this. It's almost more fun to scan the postings where the fanboys are so insecure that they feel the need to defend their favorite time sink.

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