Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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hehe now i see that Yahtzee is a YCS goon and u really bash eve when the eve-o thread was on YCS (after threadnaught incident)

Originally by; Unholy Preacher, Trade Consortium

"You have to understand that a lot of people suffer from instant gratification syndrome where they need to be entertained now, not later. That being said however, eve isn't a game that draws you in quickly but rather a very social game.

ZP has always been a bitter person which also makes it appealing as he says everything that we wish to say without our social boundary watchdogs in our head. He often makes very sensationalists comments to get a rise out of people (essentially an attention *****) and to say that he produces balanced reviews is far off the mark.

Does this mean im an anti-zp person? no, i view it for what it is, great video satire ladened with hillarious visuals. The problem however is that a lot of people think these are balanced reviews in that respect and given his lack of MMO experience, its not surprising that he churned out this type of review. Lastly, a good reviewer is only as good as his own personal experiences of which he has none in the mmo field."

/signed

A Second Job you have to pay for. That sums it up realy well.

I've notived that there are countless World Of Warcraft mentions in a few of Yahtzee's reviews, so I ask: When is he gonna review World Of Warcraft, or any Warcraft game at all?

lord667:
You're only thinking in terms of individual encounters. Part of MMO's like Eve, and where the strategy comes in, is doing the background work to set up those encounters in your favour. You're stacking the deck a bit by talking about "fair and challenging matches" when part of the point of strategy is to avoid fair fights whenever possible. Both sides then employ tactics to get the best result out of those rigged encounters. Plenty of attempted "gang bangs" fail when the smaller side has a plan and the bigger side is relying on weight of numbers.

You don't get the point but I guess this is because you did never play PoA ( as it is a team game about tactics not a deathmatch game ). Games with are unbalanced ( and I mean unbalanced in game developers terms ) are not fun for skilled and tactical/strategic players because playing lame wins over skills. Some might like this style of playing but paying for an unbalanced and unfair game is definitely asked too much for... especially if balanced and fair games can be played without this price tag. If a game wants money then it has to deliver something. And cheating, laming and gang-banging are not part of this formula.

The gameplay isn't broken, precisely because letting players use their imagination is a key part of what the game's supposed to be about. If you didn't have to use your imagination, that would mean it was broken.

It is broken ( again from a game devers point of view ). You deliver a product to the customer which is flawed from one end to the other and expect him to buy it. That's not a good game, it's a bad design. This is like making games only backed up by graphics but the rest is lousy. The same goes for bad design games kept together by the premise of "requiring imagination". Same problem, different names.

How to start?

I registered just to post here, though I might as well post elsewhere too. I've always enjoyed Yahtzees rants on games and they tend to be quite spot on. He's also right about EvE.

BUT! and this is a BIG But...

I am a 2 year player of EvE online and I remembered when I started. Gosh it was overwhelming but I had 2 flatmates that played the game and pointed me in the right direction. To many people this game would appear boring. And the reason for this is quite simple. Even though EvE came before WoW (Note BEFORE meaning that it cant be a wow clone,) it does not follow the trends of any other MMO out there.

What does that mean? It doesn't hold you hand for the first 20 levels with a linear story line and plot. This means that people who are used to having their hand held while they learn about the game will be utterly lost. It is not a game of instant gratification and that is what is so appealing. All other MMOs you play for 1 month, reach max level and then think 'what now?' In EvE after a month you're out of that frigate and barely into a cruiser. Accomplishments mean something, the world constantly changes around you. Markets crash, alliances form and crumble, you win battles, you loose battles. Its a constant changing world which you just dont see in any other stagnant MMO.

As to the review, it is right... for the 1% of the game he covered. The Devs have admited that PvE is boring and needs work (which they are working on.) Unfortunately Yahtzees habit of playing MMOs single player and going out of his way to play the game in the most dull way possible means that *shock* we get really bad impressions of a game. If you want to play EvE right then try it for a month. Mine a bit, Mission a bit, get a feel for the games intricacies and quirks, then join a PvP corp or PvE/PvP corp, THEN decide if the game isnt for you.

EvE is a huge sandbox where anything goes. Do you make the sandcastles or destroy them?

DeLukas:
I love when he reviews a game like this. It's almost more fun to scan the postings where the fanboys are so insecure that they feel the need to defend their favorite time sink.

And I have yet so see an informed opinion on behalf of those that rubbish EVE. Yahtzee included.

nastykerm:

DeLukas:
I love when he reviews a game like this. It's almost more fun to scan the postings where the fanboys are so insecure that they feel the need to defend their favorite time sink.

And I have yet so see an informed opinion on behalf of those that rubbish EVE. Yahtzee included.

The point you imply is most interesting one. Only fanboys may have an informed opinion of the game?

Why does that remind me of the first Twisp & Catsby strip?

Odjin:

lord667:
You're only thinking in terms of individual encounters. Part of MMO's like Eve, and where the strategy comes in, is doing the background work to set up those encounters in your favour. You're stacking the deck a bit by talking about "fair and challenging matches" when part of the point of strategy is to avoid fair fights whenever possible. Both sides then employ tactics to get the best result out of those rigged encounters. Plenty of attempted "gang bangs" fail when the smaller side has a plan and the bigger side is relying on weight of numbers.

You don't get the point but I guess this is because you did never play PoA ( as it is a team game about tactics not a deathmatch game ). Games with are unbalanced ( and I mean unbalanced in game developers terms ) are not fun for skilled and tactical/strategic players because playing lame wins over skills.

Playing lame is strategy. Strategy is the art of planning how you're going to win; playing "lame" usually boils down to ensuring you have the best chance of winning, whether it be bringing enough dudes to handle anything you run into, or sitting on the graveyard ensuring that ressers don't get the chance to chase your flag carrier.

You can prefer games where "lame" tactics don't work and you have a decent chance of winning every possible fight, but the point is exactly that: you have, by design, a decent chance of winning every possible fight. The strategy involved in those games is inherently limited precisely by the forced and uncontrollable "balance" that you keep pointing to. I won't deny that it's both fun and strategic (apart from anything else, not having played it would make me a fool for saying so) but your strategic options are restricted by the nature of the game. MMO's simply extend the strategy to where you can cause fights that the other guys don't have a chance of winning, and to where you have to think about how you're going to avoid those kinds of fights, or how you're going to turn the tables from an initial disadvantage. You might not *like* having to strategise in that way, and the fact that you consider yourself strategic and yet don't like it may lead you to think that it's therefore not strategic; but strategy it still very much is.

Some might like this style of playing but paying for an unbalanced and unfair game is definitely asked too much for... especially if balanced and fair games can be played without this price tag. If a game wants money then it has to deliver something. And cheating, laming and gang-banging are not part of this formula.

Yes. Yes, they are. Although not to you, obviously.

The gameplay isn't broken, precisely because letting players use their imagination is a key part of what the game's supposed to be about. If you didn't have to use your imagination, that would mean it was broken.

It is broken ( again from a game devers point of view ). You deliver a product to the customer which is flawed from one end to the other and expect him to buy it. That's not a good game, it's a bad design.

It's fundamentally flawed only from the perspective of people who expect it to be something other than what it is meant to be. It has its flaws, but they are not inherent in the need to use your imagination. A good design is one that meets its design goals. Your problem is not with the design, it's with the concept. It's not broken, you just don't like way it's supposed to work.

This is like making games only backed up by graphics but the rest is lousy. The same goes for bad design games kept together by the premise of "requiring imagination". Same problem, different names.

Actually they're different. Generally speaking, the problem with games that are all graphics and no gameplay is that those games are not meant to be, and aren't sold as being, mere visual art, therefore they aren't doing what they're supposed to. Eve *is* doing what it's supposed to.

insanelich:
[

The point you imply is most interesting one. Only fanboys may have an informed opinion of the game?

No. As I wrote, I have yet to see an informed opinion. Do you know the meaning of the sentence?

Why does that remind me of the first Twisp & Catsby strip?

Because thats what you read? Lets have a rational debate? I'm sure you have it in you. Drop the fanboy generalization, and come up with proper arguments.

insanelich:

Do you rabid fanboys actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?
Because I can tell you, nothing.

Tell it to Suddenly Ninjas, or the Privateer Alliance, or Chribba, or any merc, empire war or griefer corp, or hell, even the lowliest two-bit can-flipper. There's plenty in highsec, but (say it with me!) you have to find it yourself.

If you're talking about what's available to day-one characters in highsec, then yes, it's more limited, but...(insert the rest of the thread all over again here).

And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

Generally speaking, getting to nullsec requires being part of a solid alliance (Burn Eden and Star Fraction providing notable exceptions to show that there are possibilities besides that), but lowsec is perfectly accessible with a small corp or even solo, unless your sole desire is to carebear in complete and uninterrupted safety.

almost every mother fucker in these forums is just a yahtzee-wannabee, sticking their two-pennies in and using their biggest words. if you people aren't agreeing with him in the hope you'll gain approval you're venturing your shitty opinions, i really don't care what you think

fuck right off

synch987:
almost every mother fucker in these forums is just a yahtzee-wannabee, sticking their two-pennies in and using their biggest words. if you people aren't agreeing with him in the hope you'll gain approval you're venturing your shitty opinions, i really don't care what you think

fuck right off

I don't care whether you care what I think. Go read something you do care about.

Why has no one mentioned Noctis? Sure, it's a little on the old side, and maybe it's more video art than a computer game (to the extent that such a distinction makes sense). A lot more interesting, not to mention more beautiful, than Eve. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctis

Likh:

Seen the warhammer online trailer?
http://www.war-europe.com/mediaplayer.html?flv=http%3A//download.goa.com/war/flv/WAR_Cinematic2_Full_EN.flv&width=576&height=344
A jawdropper indeed but says nothing about the game except the fact that it has nice graphics ;)

The movie you linked to is a cinematic, whilst the eve movie is shot in-game. Your point is?

lord667:
Playing lame is strategy.

I wish you good luck playing with real gaming pros then since "lamers" quickly get a boot since they are annoying and not fun. As mentioned games that are unbalanced are used by lamers to claim that they are skillful. It's not skill to own in a gang-bang or cheap play but it's a sign of true skill if you can win ( most of the times ) in balanced games. But I know, it's the same discussion over and over again. Lamers are never going t understand that their play-style is looked down upon. The only remedy against those is a kick-ban :D

Actually they're different. Generally speaking, the problem with games that are all graphics and no gameplay is that those games are not meant to be, and aren't sold as being, mere visual art, therefore they aren't doing what they're supposed to. Eve *is* doing what it's supposed to.

And this is to have an unbalanced, overcomplicated, not fun, newbie hostile and in general annoying system. Not something I would be proud of ;)

trigger190:

Likh:

Seen the warhammer online trailer?
http://www.war-europe.com/mediaplayer.html?flv=http%3A//download.goa.com/war/flv/WAR_Cinematic2_Full_EN.flv&width=576&height=344
A jawdropper indeed but says nothing about the game except the fact that it has nice graphics ;)

The movie you linked to is a cinematic, whilst the eve movie is shot in-game. Your point is?

Well maybe that what I wrote below said link. To clarify: no matter how nice a movie from a game (gameplay or not) it's still just a movie and can't be a valid point when discussing if it's boring or not.
Fine graphics don't equal fun. That's my point.

Odjin:

lord667:
Playing lame is strategy.

I wish you good luck playing with real gaming pros then since "lamers" quickly get a boot since they are annoying and not fun. As mentioned games that are unbalanced are used by lamers to claim that they are skillful. It's not skill to own in a gang-bang or cheap play but it's a sign of true skill if you can win ( most of the times ) in balanced games. But I know, it's the same discussion over and over again. Lamers are never going t understand that their play-style is looked down upon. The only remedy against those is a kick-ban :D

Now we've completely moved from "strategy" to "skill". We've started on chess and ended on juggling. Believe me, lamers know their play-style is looked down on. Most of them have a collection of hate-mails from dead "skilful" players to prove it.

Leaving long-term strategy aside, if the pro-gamers you're talking about are so skilful, why are they kicking and banning lamers instead of taking on the challenge of countering lamer tactics and bathing in the salty tears when it all blows up in the lamer's face? I genuinely don't understand. You enjoy beating people who are crippling themselves with anti-lame mentalities, shouldn't you enjoy it even more when you beat a lamer and his overpowered whatever-it-is-that-makes-him-lame? Granted, if you *are* beating them, and they demonstrate that once their lameness fails they have nothing else to fall back on, they're going to become boring and a kick/ban is more than appropriate. I just can't imagine anyone straight-facedly proclaiming themselves to be "pro" and then whining about lameness when they run blind into a tactic that keeps killing them. That is not pro; that really *is* lame.

I do draw a difference between cheating and lameness. If you're talking aimbots and map-hacks, or in the MMO world speed-hacks and teleporters, yes, that's cheating, since it isn't within the rules. Gang-banging, or "blobbing" as we call it in Eve, is within the rules. And it's not unbeatable, but you do need skill and strategy.

Actually they're different. Generally speaking, the problem with games that are all graphics and no gameplay is that those games are not meant to be, and aren't sold as being, mere visual art, therefore they aren't doing what they're supposed to. Eve *is* doing what it's supposed to.

And this is to have an unbalanced, overcomplicated, not fun, newbie hostile and in general annoying system.

It is balanced at a character level, if you have patience and a brain, since everything is available to everyone and advancement along a specific path is hard-capped by the Level 5 skill limit. Imbalances at a fleet combat level are an inherent part of the strategic side of the game, and though we've established quite well that you don't like that, it's not a general negative.

"Overcomplicated" is just "complex" in a way you don't like.

"Not fun" is entirely subjective. Your fun =/= my fun.

"Newbie hostile" is fair to a point, but it depends on the newbie. Practically everyone agrees that the very beginning of Eve is a confusing and less-than-heart-pounding experience, if you try to do it without experimenting or talking to anyone, but apparently some people find it less hostile than others (enough to keep it going since before WoW came out, at any rate) and the newbie support available is great.

"Annoying"; occasionally, it depends on your personality and tolerance for it whether it's too much.

Wow... I'm 30 now and if i live another 30 years, I'll never understand the vitriol of some fanboys(and girls). Different games appeal to different people. Doesn't make their opinion any less valid that yours. Some games suck, some games are great, and it's mostly subjective to personal opinion. Me, I can't stand twitch based fps games. I don't find them fun. I don't think that statement is gonna make anyone angry/cry and feel a desire to start flaming me, but if it does, then perhaps some away time from games is a good idea for those so incensed.

Games are just that, games, after all, made to be played for a bit of entertainment, not as a precursor to online holy war. I know all gamers are overopinionated, but surely we can have rational discussions without needing to defend a game by insulting the genetic heritage of everyone who doesn't agree with us? I thought we gamers were supposed to be a step above the average panicky mob type when it came to the intellectual and rational stakes?

I've notived that there are countless World Of Warcraft mentions in a few of Yahtzee's reviews, so I ask: When is he gonna review World Of Warcraft, or any Warcraft game at all?

He probably won't WoW is a three year old game and if you aren't playing it and have heard about it you probably aren't going to. He could to WotLK, though.

If he had an account with a level 70.

Which he probably doesn't, because muhmorpegurs are a waste of time to him.

Ok, no idea if ZP had anything to do with it or not, but for some strange reason CCP (EVE's developers) *finally* updated their "what things should come" pages.
And it's a looker...

The pages in question are only available to subscribers, in sub-headings under "patch notes".
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/indevelopment.asp -> Stuff they're working on
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/plannedfeat.asp -> Stuff they plan to work on.

For those of you that aren't subscribers, here's a couple of excerpts... yes, there's more than this on those pages, but these below are relevant.

IN DEVELOPEMENT

New Player Experience
The NPE Cell is iterating on previously released improvements, as well as looking towards the future with new features and improvements designed to make the game easier to understand for newer players. While the focus here is on the first few weeks of gameplay, the end products often have a useful life which lasts well beyond this period, such as the long-awaited EVElopedia

User Interface Improvements
With the official formation a new cross-disciplinary EVE UI Group, a crack team of programmers, designers and usability efforts have been given the mandate to examine all aspects of the screens and controls presented to players, and make whatever improvements they judge necessary. An ongoing process, this should eventually see every last button re-examined and reconsidered - expect improvements to roll out at a consistent rate for the forseeable future.

License to Kill
A structured system to allow players, old and new alike, to quickly pick out what skills they might want trained for a particular ship, or what general skills they might have inadvertently neglected for a particular playstyle.

Death and Glory
Another way of logging achievements, the medal system will allow corporations to mark out particularly deserving players with their own unique decorations.

Walking in Stations
“Get up, get on up…” Obviously James Brown wasn’t talking specifically about EVE, but he had the right idea. Get up, get out of your pod and take a walk on the wild side, strolling around through stations, dropping by the bar for a few drinks with your wingmen and then heading over to your corporation’s office for a board meeting. Of course, you’ll never have to leave the safety of your capsule if you don’t want to, but if you crave a little more social interaction, this feature is for you.

“Epic Arc” Mission Storylines
The Atlanta team is working on a series of extended mission story arcs that grant players the ability to make active choices and to see the results of those choices; these arcs will see players through perhaps 20, 30, 40, or more missions before they achieve their final goals. Ultimately, we would like to see the majority of missions we produce fall under this rubric.

THE DRAWINGBOARD

Objectives Expanded
Recon, Escort, and “Combat Courier” mission types will add a little more variety to the existing staples of “kill, kill, kill some more” and the occasional milk-run.

Agent Orange
This is a total overhaul from the ground up of the entire agent missions system/concept — slightly more ambitious than the previous entry, but much needed.

Viceroyalty
Viceroyalties are systems in low security Empire space which are administered by a player Viceroy, on behalf of their corporation or alliance. They’ll allow you to both turn a better profit and defend your chosen system from pirates, and act as both a way to populate low-sec space and an easier first step on the road to 0.0.

Rapid Reconfiguration
The ability to save, modify, auto-fit etc defined ship loadouts, to make the task of swapping setups that little bit easier

COSMOS 2.0
COSMOS is a CCP project which aims to paint additional variety onto the immense canvas of the 5000 solar-system universe. COSMOS Projects today pursue differing visions depending on their locations – an Empire COSMOS area might be focused on Agent Missions, Complexes and Mini-Professions, while a 0.0 COSMOS area is perhaps focused on unique resources in new environments, Exploration, Complexes and some unique end result (such as Combat Boosters) from the specific local resources. COSMOS 2.0 turns this on its head, allowing the player community to build up infrastructure all over the universe. Utilizing new environments, empty Deadspace pockets and other cosmic resources, players will be able to build Complexes to exploit key resources. Our role in this is to expose the canvas to the playerbase and create a big palette of cosmic paints. It will no doubt be a long, hard road, but the destination will be worth the effort.

Planetary Governor
The probable first step for planetary interaction, where you can manage planets from a Station or other suitable structure.

Planetary Explorer
This would feature flying over planets and interacting with the planetary surface. This will likely follow on from Simple Planetary Interaction.

Planetary Commander
Planetary RTS or other hybrid game form. Yarr. The long-term crazy professor phase of planetary interaction.

Mini-EVE
An EVE-themed mini-game that can be played inside EVE to pass the time, and will be tied into other areas of gameplay where appropriate.

___

Well, I guess the ZP spank hurt enough for them to finally move their behinds and spill some beans :)

Can't you do requests aymore? i can't see the email, and i wanted to see how he'd react to that Penny Arcade game, because he's taken apart Penny Arcade before and it could give him a chance to do it more

Thought I'd sign up to reply to this thread mainly because when I did try out EVE it was so crushingly disappointing.

Like other people I'm desperate to play a great space based MMO, I've probably wanted it ever since playing Elite - though only as a general concept since the internet was even invented then.

I understand that EVE has an appeal to certain people and it's great that they like it so much but for me EVE just isn't how it appears. Seeing the adverts, the amazing graphics, the sense of a whole universe to explore I was really excited to play the game. Then I'm suddenly faced with a game that was just awful - at least for me.

I know I'm probably terrible for not wanting to spend months understanding the maths that underpin the game but if I wanted to spend months understanding maths I'd rather invest my time in an accountancy degree. Least my tax forms would be easier each year.

So I don't think the problem is EVE, I think the problem is that on one hand you've got a real desire for a Star Trek/Mass Effect online RPG and you've got advertising for EVE that tries to sell the game, to a degree, to that market. So the issue for me isn't that EVE is EVE, its that it isn't what I'm desperate for.

Come on, can't we get a real version of privateer online or at least a game where exploring the universe should be part of the game. I'd love a space MMO where the universe could keep expanding, where researching or inventing crazy space shit was a real possibility, where players who were focused on combat were hired to support players who explore the universe and examine those strange new worlds.

Maybe Star Trek Online might have some of those elements - though it is a Star Trek game so will probably be crap like most of the others :(

I just wish science fiction was getting the same number of games as fantasy MMOs. I don't think we'll get the diversity or development we could do with if EVE seems to just sit there as the only viable online space game. know there were a few sci-fi MMOs but Star Wars online just played terribly and most have just been WOW with shiny laser guns.

As to the comments about EVE being as easily done as a MUD or text based game - christ I don't think it's even that, for me it felt more like a PBM game. Anyone remember those play by email games - you get a letter once a month or fortnight and you write down on it what you want to do? Then a couple of weeks later the results come through along with what all the other players have been doing? EVE never felt very different to that.

Unlike other MMOs there really was absolutely no feeling of addiction or excitement when I started playing. Unlike other MMOs where the first hours are always superb.

Tibike77:

Mini-EVE
An EVE-themed mini-game that can be played inside EVE to pass the time, and will be tied into other areas of gameplay where appropriate.

I think that just about sums it up for me - why would you be playing a game that has developers working on something fun to do to pass the time in the game...

On MMO's in general though, I played Warcraft for maybe four months and Lord of the Rings Online for about the same amount of time. I did enjoy them but after a while that feeling does come back - that you're getting home from work every night and booting up your second job. Just like ZP implies really. I remember reading somewhere that the popularity of an MMO comes from the certainty of a reward for your actions. So unlike spending those 5 hours on the report at work (where you might never get any recognition), in an MMO you know you will get 3 gold and a blue item in return for pressing 1, right click, 2, F2, right click for 5 hours. I guess you could argue it appeals to people a little bit further down the autistic spectrum - and that isn't meant as an insult, I got dragged the fuck into WOW and LOTRO just like everyone else.

Anyway my point was that I've just been playing The Witcher, not the best game in the world, but it was really odd. I kept being surprised that when I spoke to people they gave me real things to do, or that at no point did I have to go and kill 8,653 warthogs to go up a level. It's really been so long since I played a single player fantasy RPG that I'd forgotten that you can still have an amazing and lengthy game experience without having to pad it out with a decades worth of grinding.

Anyway, liked the review as usual, good on you if EVE is your thing and I'm just going to carry on waiting for ELITE: ONLINE

I started playing EVE many moons ago on the free trial, i found it very hard to get into, and when the free trial finished i was still pretty confused.
Then about a year and a half ago, i got another free trial as i needed something to play and i found i really enjoyed it and have been playing ever since.

I sometimes have mini breaks when i need something of a different flow to play (normally WoW).

In short, it's a marmite game and the 14 days trial by itself isn't enough to truelly understand what it's about.

Ok, want an informed opinion on EVE?

I tried the trial because I'm quite a big fan of X2 and X3, as well as some of the older titles in the space-exploration/simulation genre.
I was introduced by a friend of mine who's been playing for a few years so I had some pointers to go on.

What made me stop:

-We couldn't find anything to fight, and when we actually did, we got pwned. On a newbie mission with help from an experienced player.
-The interface is a freaking nightmare.
-There's no bloody cockpit-view! Part of what makes space-simulation great is immersion. Yes, that feeling that you're in the cockpit of a spaceship instead of playing a top down point and click rpg.
-Non-existent physics. Come on. Flying through planets and stars... bumping into asteroids like you're in a bumping cart or whatever that amusement park ride is called in english.

ARGH! I HATE it when people squeeze the toothpaste tube from the middle! It's such a waste! Bottom FTW...

But yeah, no surprises here really. All MMOs are boring

< Another EvE fanboi sign up etc.

I have only slightly disagreed with one of Yahtzee's reviews before and that was Oblivion. Everything else up till now has been spot on (and aweseome too :D)

But I don't own a console - never will. This is simply because the games, as described - suck balls imo. So why, just why, did he decide to review EvE? I knew it would be ripped to shreds but I honestly didn't think it would as harsh as this...Jeez.

Whilst everything said in this is true (minus most of the whines that can easily be fixed if you take the time to figure it out *rolleyes) as others of said, ZP neglected the 95% of the game and played the life of a carebear - the epitome of boredom.

You signed up to a MMO and decided to play it solo? That's like attempted to play a FPS and not shoot anyone. So this is nothing more than a naive and hypocrital review.

So congrats Yahtzee - you failed at EvE. Feel free to cast yourself alongside the thousands of other EvE failures who spat their dummy out and decided to bitch and moan instead of engaging their brain and learning/researching what kind of game this really is.

Dissapointing all in all. I shouldn't be so offended, but I am. May I suggest you stick with simple run, kill, run some more kill, kill, GOW clones that you can sum up in a couple of hours. Not games which require months of casual play time for you to even give a remotely valid opinion about...

In addition. The skill system is fine btw. Infact, it's awesome. Simply because it doesn't entail that must-grind-to-lvl70-WoW-smack-addiction-quality. Why would you even begin to question that? Aren't all MMOs 'pointless timesinks' anyway?

dez373:
You signed up to a MMO and decided to play it solo? That's like attempted to play a FPS and not shoot anyone. So this is nothing more than a naive and hypocrital review.

What? How is that remotely similar? XD

Not shooting in an FPS would be ignoring the most basic (And well... pretty much the only) gaming mechanic in the game. Playing an MMO by yourself is more like playing the Single Player campaign of an FPS, skipping all the dialogue and killing anyone who's on your team. The main difference being that doing that would probably still be pretty fun, and playing MMOs isn't.

If a game needs you to be helped by more experienced players as well as 'months of casual play time' before you can find it fun then it's not a very good game... You probably only think you enjoy it because you don't like to admit that you wasted several months of your life hoping that it would get better

Violator:

-The interface is a freaking nightmare.
-There's no bloody cockpit-view! Part of what makes space-simulation great is immersion. Yes, that feeling that you're in the cockpit of a spaceship instead of playing a top down point and click rpg.

On these 2 points: The interface could use some work, and infact is being worked on. However it does grow on you. (That doesn't excuse it in the least, it should be immediately understandable) So I agree with you on that one, the other point however...

A cockpit view would be impossible within EVE's background.
All players in the game are Pod pilots, and effectively immortal because of it, you see your vessel and everything around it through the eyes of camera drones that transmit their image directly into your brain.

There is no cockpit or bridge, you're literally flying your ship through willpower alone.

You, the pilot, are inside a small egg shaped device that links your neural pathways directly to the control systems of the ship you are flying. Larger vessels have additional crew to help run things but in the end you ARE the ship. There is no need for a cockpit since the control for the ship happens inside your head. A cockpit view as such would be rather useless.

Crikey, does another ZP usually lead to an influx of troll? Or have I just been leading a sheltered existence in the other forums?

LewsTherin:
Crikey, does another ZP usually lead to an influx of troll? Or have I just been leading a sheltered existence in the other forums?

I would guess that it depends on the amount of controversy the review throws up. (ZPs SSBB review probably had a similar level, if not more)

LewsTherin:
Crikey, does another ZP usually lead to an influx of troll? Or have I just been leading a sheltered existence in the other forums?

I dunno, this review has the EVE fanbois all aflutter. As a 2 and some change year player of EVE I can assure the friendly ZP fans that ZP got it mostly right. Eve is a niche game, which means those that do not fit that niche will either have a indiffernt or hateful opinion of the game. There is no shock to that, and those that are offended need to pull their head out of the sand (edited myself \o/ ) and realize not everyone likes what you like. One of the biggest drawbacks, and the biggest enjoyment of the game is the lack of linear direction. You are given a game, you do with it as you please it is simple as that. There is very little in the realms of hand holding or direction which unless you can find something to do in the game means you will be bored as hell and quit.

Does this make it a bad game? I don't think so, but those that try it and don't like it... Can I have your stuff?

What the fuck is Eve online?

Nevermind....I don't care.

i love Ben Yahtzee. um.in a perfectly straight way. and Yahtzee. if u read my post thing reply. i wanna sugest somting 2 u u might like. u might love it, u might hate it. but its very expansive and fun. its called g-mod. a.k.a garrys mod. its a fun game with endless amounts of downloadable content. 1 thing i know u'll not like about it is that u need either half life 2, half life 2 episode 1. half life 2 episode 2. team fortress 2, counter strike, or portal 2 play the game. 1 thing u might like is that u can make so many things. i have made a sniper mission, a flying death machine, and a gunship. but either way. it would b cool 2 here ur opinion. even if u say the game is crap. i'll like u anyway, once again in a perfectly straight way.

Great review! I personally am a player of MMORPGs but this one doesn't look good at all... besides, space... is overdone, yuck.

Although, I suppose I don't play many different games, Just Neverwinter Nights, and I only like that game because it is the best simulation of DnD I've ever seen (besides perhaps Balder's Gate) and I enjoy the specific community of Arelith..

Besides, it helps me think of ideas for my book. (no, i do not write fan fiction crap or anything like that.)

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