Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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I will say this about my very very short encounter with EVE: the user interface is possibly the least friendly thing I've ever seen. Sure, once you know its arcane ways I'm sure you can bend it to your will and using it becomes second nature. But as a new player, I was overloaded with shit to look at. The text box has people jabbering CONSTANTLY in multiple channels, so that whole 'jump in and be a member of something' is not as accessible as you all make it seem. You're saying it's like showing up somewhere and just getting right to work, but it's more like being in an incredibly busy market place with everyone yelling about something and there's a bunch of shit in your eyes.

Seriously, I quit playing the game after about an hour. I just had it; I wasn't having fun, I didn't feel like ANY part of it was intuitive....it was the definition of an impenetrable RPG, the kind that comes with a hardcover instruction booklet that fans can quote from. I consider myself a fairly smart person but this has way more to do with patience than intellect, at least initially. The point as always is this: it may very well be a fun game, but it's like being given a big paycheck that is encased in a boulder of goo. I'm not sure it's worth the effort to work for the reward.

good one, bet you had to think on that a bit before posting, /sarcasm

point is, a reviewing mmorpg's is hard buisness.

appealing to everyones tases is impossible, but to be a "reviewer" that is anti-games establishment is like hiring a total idiot to run your country, ohh wait, guess thats been done as well( salute to Bush :P)

the reviews are funny, witty and whatnot, but thats it, no real content, no real review.

Okay, I feel like I've become this thread's troll, but what the hell, I'm not busy nor am I actually flaming anyone.

Yahtzee takes the stance of the everyman gamer in this case. Not the "I write down upcoming game events in a calendar" hardcore MMORPG gamer. His contention from what I understand is that all good games offer more or less the same level of gratification from accomplishment and play experience, but MMORPGs make you work much harder, too hard for them. It plays into a certain type of mindset which he doesn't possess. The problem here is that he's also a comedic writer and every review Yahtzee does is just as much a roast as it is a review, sometimes more so, and the MMORPG crowd doesn't get the joke. This review is not for you. Just as stated in the MGS4 review, if you are a fan, chances are you are already ingrained into the culture of the game and don't get a word of what he's saying. He's Joe Gamer and he's saying this game is incredibly new-user unfriendly but in a scathing comedic way. And instead of understanding that (as the fanboys of every game that he reviews) you defenders seem to miss that completely and must come to the defense of something that he honestly is probably not going to think twice about.

TL;DR - He is not an MMORPG gamer, and he writes from that perspective. He's making fun of you for the sake of comedy, laugh and get over it.

You did two things wrong. You didn't join a corp like everyone else does and you didn't try PVP.

The problem is the combat in eve isnt ckicing enemies to death and dodging fire... It is tactics. Thats where people have problems. It is not just a tool of cleaning your brain - like a comics book it like the long and good book like WAR AND PEACE or other clasical/well made literature (sorry anybody who likes good literature). You must be dedicated in the begining but the reward in the end would be grater.

But i agree it isnt new user friendly... But. If u read online manuals made by fans (not sure about english version) IT MAKES IT EASY. Also your corp mates would show u the arcane ways around the interface. And. It did take me 10 min first time to find out how to undock from station so... i feel your pain. But the first effort would be greatly rewarded afterwards - eve is the game for life, not 2 years.

Why is it that EVERY SINGLE mmorpg claims to be "making something new" even though i havent seen one yet that hasnt been a wow clone with diffrent colors?

Have u played EVERY SINGLE MMO FROM END TO BEGINING?
And why wow?
There were mmos before that. And wow was coping them. And this is like asking a question why all strategy games have multiple units to command and taktics to employ? Or Why do you have to shhot people in FPS ses. In all MMORPG s u would find quests, scills ect. So all mmos woul be similar in some ways becouse they are mmos. The difference, as i have said that EVE tends to have more long term thought in it. SO IT IS DIFFERENT FROM WOW IN IT. Also contract system is there and i find it usefull. I dont think u could find something like that in wow. Also EVE, as somebody said, is a SANDBOX GAME. There would be no fun for u if u dont provide it. Becouse fun is in pvp not pve (like what i have experienced in wow). The problem is that first month or so a player experiences pve only (which is wow grinding) and then gets to tasty pvp and allience warfare. It is a bit similar to warhammer but u get not only npcc factions but u own. Lets say u, by good play have made corp a. Then u have to capture area from corp B. U need to get mining ect going.

So eve goes this way
1Cruying over interface and grinding(wow)
2Joining corp and pvp (interface problem solved)
3Becom9ng fleet commander/corp director (more pvp start of tactical rts)\
4Making corp/allience (rts)
5becoming ausom allience and beating crap out of oposition(rise of RED ALLIENCE, its union with GOON SWARM and RA vs BOB 2 year war with atleast 10000 pvp players a side)

You don't get it. You can't argue about the impenetrability of a game when you need user guides written by players to understand what you're seeing. I bought this game because I wanted to indulge in a little Fireflyesque fantasy gaming and they do such a magnificent job of explaining things that I spent probably two hours chasing my tail trying to grasp the fucking encyclopedia they throw at you.

It's completely fine if you love this game. I certainly love games that are generally reviled. But don't begrudge the reviewer pointing out the obviously flaws.

Well. I dont say the flaws shown do not exist. They do. But there is more to the game that is shown. Its is like to drop spore before finishing the cell stage. So review is not complete. I agree that the reviewer most likely isnt going to play it for a month. But if he did he would show 30% of the game not 2.

Yahtzee was right on with this review. EVE is about the most god-awful, boring piece of crap I've ever had the displeasure to play.

Also, I hate with a fiery passion the notion that I "HAVE TO JOIN A PLAYER CORP" to enjoy the game. It's the same thing with WoW. I play video games BECAUSE I'm a social misanthrope, or to be more precise, I shouldn't HAVE to join a player corp to get something resembling a full experience out of the game. Could someone please explain to me why I should give Blizzard, CCP, or any other company $15 a month for the privilege of playing an incomplete product?

I mean, I understand that there needs to be larger encounters for those who do enjoy playing in groups. But there should be some suitably epic bits of storyline for those of us who prefer the solo experience. I, for one, have no desire to get bitched out by a 15 year old from the other side of the country because I wasn't in the exact right spot, at the exact right time, doing the exact right thing.

TaboriHK:
He's Joe Gamer and he's saying this game is incredibly new-user unfriendly

This beast is all-user unfriendly. The rigamarole necessary to complete even the simplest of fetch quests is ridiculous.

Oh, and before I'm misunderstood due to my last post, I understand the appeal of an MMO. Having other people to talk to is fun. AND, if I had 18-19 hours a day to devote to practicing, and perfecting the game, and its strategies, and to participate in flow chart sessions regarding the latest boss, and had been able to be on at very specific times, I'm sure I would have had more fun with the corp / clan aspect. But c'est la vie.

well it doesnt go to flow charts. Just common sense really - lets say if you have a ship it is norma;y fited with stuff it has bonuses for and not completely random and useless equipment. If u want to be a pro u might go to flow charts but normaly u dont (i use only a shipfitting and character training progs, no flow charts, and i use them becouse i have no life)

well it doesnt go to flow charts. Just common sense really - lets say if you have a ship it is norma;y fited with stuff it has bonuses for and not completely random and useless equipment. If u want to be a pro u might go to flow charts but normaly u dont (i use only a shipfitting and character training progs, no flow charts, and i use them becouse i have no life)

I've played Eve and found everything Yahtzee said to be very true. It certainly was boring and the boring part just reminded me too much of WoW with the pointless taking aaaaaages to fly somewhere. Also the fighting was a bit slow paced.

I totally agree with Tmcmistress. Atleast I found one MMO that's very different there, which is City of Heroes/City of Villains. Both games you can do just about everything by yourself if you wished, however there are a few things like special missions where you will need a team,but it's optional unlike WoW.

Yeah there is much to be said about the use of multiplayer in MMORPGs. As a longtime fan of Guildwars, I loved going for titles and such, but could not reach some (Defender of Ascalon) without a teammate. Not fun. I don't like ppl. Of course, if it werent for the jingoist idiots, some of that would be acceptable.

i tried it....played for a minuet..said fuck this.....now i wish i spent that 1 minuet of my life doing something worthwhile

Looks like Yahtzee had the same kind of experience with this game as me

Why is it that everytime Yahtzee reviews something, people claim he sucks at reviewing just because he insults something they like?

Oh right, idiocy. I forgot.

I tried to like EVE online I played it for a good week or so alas tis shite.

I played EVE for about a year to a year and a half. Right up to the point when it was revealed that the devs cheat at their own game.
Yahtzee's review is right on in all aspects.
Joining a player run corp isnt the end all be all of EVE life just so you know. I had more fun in the NPC corp than in any of the player corps I joined because once I joined, I was EXPECTED TO FULFILL A ROLE as though I had put in an application for a second frigging JOB.
The learning curve is a curve in the same way the side of a building is. It is NOT new user friendly, ALTHOUGH it had gotten BETTER in the time I played it. Yes, folks, it USED to be WORSE.
I quit the game once I realized that the devs like to cheat to win in the game that they created. This is much like a American football game where the referees are Quarterbacks. Yeah you can have fun playing if you dont intend your side to win ever.

Nibbles:
Why is it that everytime Yahtzee reviews something, people claim he sucks at reviewing just because he insults something they like?

Oh right, idiocy. I forgot.

Yeah, I like how instead of saying, "You've offended me by going after a game I personally enjoy" they come up with, "your reviews used to be funnier. Now you're just dropping the ball."

Haters.

TaboriHK:
I will say this about my very very short encounter with EVE: the user interface is possibly the least friendly thing I've ever seen.

I bet the user interface of an Eurofighter of F-22 is *really* unfriendly, but that doesnt change the fact that they are great planes.

EVE is not for the lazy nor stupid. And thats that.

An F-22 moves at double the speed EVE does, even if it's derelict and on fire.

TaboriHK:
An F-22 moves at double the speed EVE does, even if it's derelict and on fire.

The civilized world cant see the point you are trying to make, do you have one?

Yes. EVE for the first few weeks is about as exciting as a clerical job, with lofty promises of epic PVP combat too far to reach for the average gamer. Just because you have extreme patience doesn't mean you should lack the inability to acknowledge that this is a niche game for a niche crowd, and that not everyone is going to love it.

EVE seems to have pulled a kind of semi Nintendo on many people, the whole 'Nintendo are awesome and anything you say is always wrong because their Nintendo and their awesome' idea. For some reason people seem to think that by grinding yourself silly with god awful controls and having to do things (player corps) to get anywere makes them more intelligent or above average gamers? I just dont get it but then again I like to have fun in my games.

I cant say that EVE is good but if you enjoy it then thats that, its just the vast majority of people agree with yahtzee.

TaboriHK:
Yes. EVE for the first few weeks is about as exciting as a clerical job, with lofty promises of epic PVP combat too far to reach for the average gamer. Just because you have extreme patience doesn't mean you should lack the inability to acknowledge that this is a niche game for a niche crowd, and that not everyone is going to love it.

Dont get this the wrong way, but imagine if one viewed girls in the same fashion. Why spend time get to knowing a nice girl and then eventually get in her pants when you can just buy a hooker and get dirty after 5 minutes?

Just as in RL, something is worth the wait. And sometimes the wait is a part of the fun. If, you can see the big picture that is.

Dont get this the wrong way, but imagine if one viewed girls in the same fashion. Why spend time get to knowing a nice girl and then eventually get in her pants when you can just buy a hooker and get dirty after 5 minutes?

Just as in RL, something is worth the wait. And sometimes the wait is a part of the fun. If, you can see the big picture that is.

Lamme see... I can play a game im immediately interested in and have fun
or
I can wait for two years having no fun and paying for a second job to eventually have fun in "the big picture"....
lemme THINK which I and the general population of the world are gonna choose...
Gee I wonder why the game has been out this long and only has 250k subs

nastykerm:
Dont get this the wrong way, but imagine if one viewed girls in the same fashion. Why spend time get to knowing a nice girl and then eventually get in her pants when you can just buy a hooker and get dirty after 5 minutes?

Just as in RL, something is worth the wait. And sometimes the wait is a part of the fun. If, you can see the big picture that is.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it doesn't take me six months to get laid with a halfway decent girl.

EDIT: And since we're going with that analogy, you do have to pay to play EVE, remember. So in essence you're still buying a busy hooker who apparently is "the shit."

Will people STOP with the sex analogies, please? It's immature and misogynistic.

EVE does not take six months to get into. My first PvP fight (Which I was on the winning side of) was on day three. My first major battle (40 ships to a side) was within a month of joining the game. I became a junior fleet commander for my alliance in two months, a senior in four, and I've been experimenting with different play styles ever since. A trio of rookie characters with absolutely no training beyond what they start the game with can bring down even competently-piloted battlecruisers in the right circumstances.

Yahtzee got one thing cataclysmically wrong, IMO - contrary to the "EVE players are to nerds what nerds are to regular people" thing, the EVE community (or at least, that part of it that I've met) are, for the most part, a group of intelligent, mature, interesting people with a fine sense of social acumen, and a better-than-average intellect. They tend to be older, better-spoken and more sensible than the average gamer, more sociable and funny, and less serious about their game than you'd expect.

which brings me back to the one thing that has started to bug me about ZP recently - whenever Yahtzee reviews a multiplayer game nowadays, he forgets the fucking multiplayer. Look at the Soul Calibur IV review - "Push throw button repeatedly to win the story mode". Sure, okay, good. Story mode is for friendless recluses. The rest of us play the game at parties, with friends, where repeatedly mashing the "throw" button doesn't actually work so well.

The exact same mistake has been made with EVE and Age of Conan. Multiplayer games are designed around this crazy idea of playing with other people, and in MMOs that involves joining a guild/corp. And yet in both those reviews he steadfastly refused to do either and complained about how the game failed to reward him for trying to be the sullen "cloaked figure in the corner" lone wolf.

If a game's designed to be played with other people, play it with other people I say. Maybe MMOs aren't his bag, because he doesn't like joining player guilds, which is fair enough, but if that's the case I humbly recommend that Yahtzee should stop reviewing them and focus on single-player centric games instead, since that's clearly where his interest lies. When he plays to his strengths, his reviews are merely amusingly harsh. If forced outside his comfort zone, they become unfairly biased.

Is it possible to have Featured Content locked? This is going the way of the Mailbag showdown.

AngryMan:
are, for the most part, a group of intelligent, mature, interesting people with a fine sense of social acumen, and a better-than-average intellect. They tend to be older, better-spoken and more sensible than the average gamer, more sociable and funny, and less serious about their game than you'd expect.

Exactly what Ive heard about the WAR crowd. I started playing the game recently, and the kids playing that are even worse than the WoW players.

AngryMan:

My first PvP fight (Which I was on the winning side of) was on day three. My first major battle (40 ships to a side) was within a month of joining the game. I became a junior fleet commander for my alliance in two months, a senior in four, and I've been experimenting with different play styles ever since.

That must have been very cool and gratifying for you but thats not the average player's take of EVE. The average player sees how big and hard and long it is and runs away. IF they stay, then they tend to have to wait quite a while to get inot a corp that will back them up in fights (Yes Ive seen the SP requirements a lot of 0.0 corps have.)
The first fight I ever got into in EVE was when I wandered into the wrong place and got zapped and podded by guys in battleships. My frigate (the only ship I could fly at the time - we didnt get that neat 800,000 starting SP bonus you newbs do) lasted about one shot. Yeah it was real fun starting at zero SP, and yes it did take about six months to get into fights and start playing EVE then. I realize its different now though. You CAN go right into fights now and get yer butt handed to you on a silver platter by the average 2 million SP player. Unless you have ppl with you that are also several million SP characters, or the enemy's account was ebayed, a miner turned fighter, or an complete dumbass, yer gonna get yer butt handed to you in the same way as if a lvl 1 in WoW somehow entered into a fight with a 70.

AngryMan:
Yahtzee should stop reviewing them and focus on single-player centric games instead, since that's clearly where his interest lies. When he plays to his strengths, his reviews are merely amusingly harsh. If forced outside his comfort zone, they become unfairly biased.

I actually agree whole heartedly. As he said in the Tabula Rasa review, he Hates MMorpgs. So its not likely hes gonna give them a fair shake. If you go into a game with the "Lets see what flavor of shit sandwich this game will be" mindset, then however good the game is yer still gonna be getting a review of a shit sandwich.

Im honestly waiting for the inevitable review of WAR where the trashes it up and down for being just like Wow

Buddahcjcc:

That must have been very cool and gratifying for you but thats not the average player's take of EVE. The average player sees how big and hard and long it is and runs away. IF they stay, then they tend to have to wait quite a while to get inot a corp that will back them up in fights (Yes Ive seen the SP requirements a lot of 0.0 corps have.)

It is what you make of it. Some head off to 0.0 at once, others hug empire space. And if you are worried about SP's, you could join goonswarm as they take in anyone :)

As for the community, I have noticed the increase of immature idiots over the last years. It started degenerating after SWG failed, and people who got bored with wow arrived. The massive influx of new players changed the community. But I can say this, that there are still many great people in the game.

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