Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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I tried the 14 day free trial and I have to say I was interested for about 1 hour. Than I got out of the character customization screen and quickly got bored by the huge, huge amount of controls that bewildered me and quickly drained all the fun out of the game.

To be honest I never like MMO's they somehow always seem to annoy me with pointless grind where you immediately lose your advantage over other players if you don't play every single day. Not saying they are bad games just saying they aren't made to amuse ME.

But Eve bored me the most why because in most MMO's you are close enough to the slavering monstrosity to hack at him but in Eve you shoot at things from 3000 km's away thus taking any directness away from the combat and making it even more boring seeing as you can't see projectiles fly at your enemy and knock out a big section of hull or any degradation at all.

how did he know their was porn inspired by him......

He said that space is the final frontier, and that everything on earth has been explored, but the truth is that only land has been explored. We know more about space then we know about the ocean.

Lonan:
He said that space is the final frontier, and that everything on earth has been explored, but the truth is that only land has been explored. We know more about space then we know about the ocean.

Not entirely true, yes, we have not explored the majority of the oceans on this planet, but you cant really compare the oceans of earth to the endless void that is space, its an entirely different scale.

Fronken:

Lonan:
He said that space is the final frontier, and that everything on earth has been explored, but the truth is that only land has been explored. We know more about space then we know about the ocean.

Not entirely true, yes, we have not explored the majority of the oceans on this planet, but you cant really compare the oceans of earth to the endless void that is space, its an entirely different scale.

I don't entirely understand what your saying about comparing the oceans to space, but if you're saying that it's easier to explore space than it is the oceans, then I concur. However, it is a fact that we know more about space, or maybe it was just the moon, then we know about the oceans. Which makes sense considering to explore space you need to send a probe out there and look at it through a telescope. As for the oceans, I believe the ocean floor is 5000m down, and the water pressure goes like this: 10m, double sea level air pressure, 20m, triple sea level air pressure, and so on. Which obviously makes exploration really difficult, especially considering the visibility down there.

Lonan:

Fronken:

Lonan:
He said that space is the final frontier, and that everything on earth has been explored, but the truth is that only land has been explored. We know more about space then we know about the ocean.

Not entirely true, yes, we have not explored the majority of the oceans on this planet, but you cant really compare the oceans of earth to the endless void that is space, its an entirely different scale.

I don't entirely understand what your saying about comparing the oceans to space, but if you're saying that it's easier to explore space than it is the oceans, then I concur. However, it is a fact that we know more about space, or maybe it was just the moon, then we know about the oceans. Which makes sense considering to explore space you need to send a probe out there and look at it through a telescope. As for the oceans, I believe the ocean floor is 5000m down, and the water pressure goes like this: 10m, double sea level air pressure, 20m, triple sea level air pressure, and so on. Which obviously makes exploration really difficult, especially considering the visibility down there.

What i was saying is that we have explored a bigger % of our oceans than we have space, seeing as with the oceans we know approximately how much there is, as for space, its nothing more than speculations.

So exploring the oceans is easier than exploring space, seeing as there's no telling how big space is, and with the oceans we'll probably figure out how to withstand the enormous pressure sooner or later, but i doubt mankind will ever be able to explore all of space.

On impulse I recently downloaded the free trial for this game and now I know exactly what he meant by all of those statements at the moment I have to wait 10 hours to delete the accounts I possess at the moment because the 1st I fell into a performance paradox where I attempted to buy a better version of my gun but on installation I was grated by the no charge message so i attempted to switch back and again no charge unless a purchase a better power crystal thing( for the gun I all ready had ) where as I have no money because I purchased a rocket launcher which I couldn't fit because of the awesomeness level thing mentioned in the review, Which I cant sell it for some reason I tried to purchase the better weapon because I keep getting killed on a mission so I created a new account where I learned from my mistakes and got to the same mission but after I logged of one time the mission no longer is listed and I cant progress any more I could blame the unintuitive interface as mentioned or my lack of experience of MMO's or a combination

Loved the review, and one of the best things about it in my opinion is that I had an advertisment for EVE online above the video the whole time.

ok from what ive heard about this game im going to try it

only time ive ever tried an mmo and im going to see if i can tolerate it

So it's less fun and intuitive than EV Nova? gonna stick to my guns with a REAL space simulator. where you can actually run away from missiles.

(yes, I realize it's not an MMO. Shut up)

I tried it... the opening cinematic lasted frigging AGES, the character maker was pointless, the HUD was confusing, and the most interesting part was going lightspeed.

hehe yeah, eve is not for everyone, though lately they are trying to improve new player experience.

you made the mistake a lot of new players do. you didnt join a player corporation, and that is what eve is mostly about.

other MMOs allow a form of "solo" playing. and while it can be done in eve, its really not the way to go.

eve is all about pvp, group pvp. you rely on your corpmates, and through the use of different tactics defeat the other group of players.

what makes eve fun (for some of us) is when these corporations join together to form alliances, which have a few thousand members (one wow server...). now these huge alliances battle over space for resources. the politics involved are incredible. and when the negotiations fail, we see fights with a few hundred people on every side.

so its not two guys kicking each other shins...

its the correct use of tactics through an agreed doctrine of ship fitting...

or at least one thousand guys kicking the other thousand guys shins :)

not to mention espionage...

but yeah, the game is very "mathematical". you need to understand how transversal velocity works, how signature radius is calculated into the damage formulas and so on...
every week there is a guy complaining why his huge battleship cant kill a small tiny frigate?
well your huge battleship normally fits huge guns, which cant track a small fast ship...
that is why a pack of cheap frigates will tear up an expensive battleship.

but people seem to miss the serenity of, as you say, clicking and shin kicking until someone drops dead. I am sure there are other systems for pvp, but eve chose this "mathematical" approach...and i can understand it only appeals to a certain group of people. i found it a lot of fun, but i can understand why most wouldn't.

again, eve is a great game, there is no other sandbox like it, you just need to get through the retarded new player experience, which is so horribly failed it hurts.

Your reaction to Eve was so similar to mine it's eerie.

http://loewald.com/blog/?p=59&cpage=1#comment-2516

So anyway, after reading through the comments I have to leave my thoughts. Never mind that the thread is long dead.

Let's start with an assertion: The people saying eve is boring or unfun are idiots.

Not because they don't like the game. Nobody cares about that. It's because they apparently don't understand that other people might not have precisely same idea of 'fun' they do.

There are people who actually do want a greater level of involvement and responsibility than can be found in most MMOs. There are people who (gasp) like math. There are people who enjoy solving logistics puzzles. There are people who like to take actual risks for real (internet spaceship pixel) rewards or real losses. There are people for whom participating in the rise - and fall - of empires is the most thrilling thing in the world, no matter how boring it may seem to other people.

There are people who want, as you say, a game that is like a second job. These people thrive in EVE, and they are rewarded with bigger and better things. They can lead fleets, corporations or entire empires. They fly the biggest and shiniest ships, and earn the largest rewards.

There are also people who want a casual game. They, too can thrive here, and are rewarded by not having to grind for skill development, and with careers where one can turn a strong profit in a few hours a week.

There are people who like nothing more than dealing with supply chains, logistics and manufacturing, whose idea of a good time is a nice spreadsheet and a profit margin of 8-10%. These people, too, are having fun; it's just not your kind of fun.

And there's everybody in between.

.

EVE is a niche game. It was designed as such, and continues to be developed as such -- very successfully so. This has earned it a fiercely loyal player base, one which is still growing when some other MMOs have gone under due to the current economic situation.

If you try the trial, see all the tools for building and/or destroying sandcastles and quit because it's complicated, that's fine. It just means that it's not your cup of tea. I played the wow demo for 3 hours, and stopped because I kept thinking "I could be doing something useful right now, like mining". That doesn't mean wow is a bad game, it means that it's not for me.

Personally, I was hooked on eve from the first minute. I found the interface and controls well-thought-out and intuitive (I realise that I am alone in this). I used the multitude of available tools to find out what is what, found something I could do and dove in. I've never run missions, or even finished the tutorial. Nearly two years later I'm still hooked, and still learning new things every day.

.

To close, I would like to address a particular line of comments that really bugged me - the assertion that in PvP 100 vs 1 is unfair, dishonorable, unbalanced or cheating ('cheating' is a particularly stupid assertion to make, so we can ignore it). Probably what should make anybody who thinks this way run from eve screaming is that I actually can't work out what the problem is.

I could tell you about rule number one of eve: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. I could name half a dozen reasons off the top of my head why harmless-appearing ships should be killed, instantly, with all available prejudice. I could tell you about how any pilot not specifically marked as an ally is an enemy by default and wants to kill you. But these data points don't come close to being a complete answer.

EVE is a deeply, pervasively hostile environment. Even beyond what is mentioned in in above posts, scamming, spying, theft, espionage, ganking and a dozen other activities that would be considered griefing, bannable offenses and possibly illegal in any other game, are allowed and /encouraged/ both by the game mechanics and by the devs themselves. This is *not* a friendly game.

Again, not for everyone. Cooperation is not the default in this game. If you fall victim to a scam, that's a valuable lesson -- one worth as much you lost. If you cross paths with another pilot, you don't invite them to form a fleet and go shoot space boars together -- you open fire, or run like a scared little forest elf. Eve is a highly competitive, darwinian game and your ideas of honor and fairness simply have no place in its culture or mechanics.

[end wall of text]

The review itself was, however, painfully accurate for anybody who does nothing but run missions in high-sec.

Thank you, uc.asc ! For saying everything i wanted to.

People, please try the trial, and dont do the same mistake as Yathzee. Join a corp if you can, atleast make some friends, and see where you end up.
Try and bare with the imense learningcurve. If you get yourself through the first part, you will see the potential.

Send me a mail if you need help : Lojr
I can teach you a valuable lesson on why you should not trust strangers in Eve !

uc.asc IMHO is completely right.
I've played WoW, L2, AoC. From myself I have to say that EVE is NOTHING like any other MMO. When you discover how to actually do things there, it is way less annoying than other MMO's. And the game becomes way deeper and more versatile than any other (at least in my experience).
Yahtzee either just doesn't know the sh*t or tries to fulfill WoW fans and console gamers' dreams. Or, most likely, this is just not a Yahtzee type of game. He looks like he has played LOTS of games, so I respect his point of view. Review is fun, though.
P.S. If someone is not capable of even completing the tutorial it doesn't mean the game is bad. No offense, just fact.

Kaiyen:
uc.asc IMHO is completely right.
I've played WoW, L2, AoC. From myself I have to say that EVE is NOTHING like any other MMO.

I want to make a point here in relation to EVE and all other MMO's i've played.

I've tried a few MMO's and the one thing that always preventing me from liking it was the "shin-kicking".

It would appear from a good few of the comments that a lot of people missed the point of that statement so i'm going to elaborate on what I think Yahtzee is on about.

Even though mmo's are played live their combat is based on turn based games, hence the "taking turns" to kick each other in the shins.
The thing I personally hate about this is that it has "nothing" to do with skill. As an example i'm going to compare Oblivion & WoW;

If an enemy was to attempt to hit me with a sword in Oblivion I can dodge my character in different directions, block the attack, try strike the opponent before he hits me etc.

Same scenario, an enemy engages me in WoW (or any other mmo) it's a game of chess turns are taken you select your favourite attacks/powers but you cannot use your own reaction times to influence your characters movements to gain an edge in the battle.

Finally, the player with the biggest boots (higher LVL/Spec'd armor & clothes) will win after 10-40mins of taking turns shin-kicking.

How does EVE try to be like WoW Surggical_Scar?

I played the Trial and from what I played, it's NOTHING like WoW. Completely different at that.

I know it can get repetitive, but I'm sure if you took the time to play it for a bit it could be really fun

The Atheist Knight, I get your point and here you are right. You can try Age of Conan since its combat system is realtime and fun. However, i abandoned AoC, it still felt like WoW even with its challenging and thrilling realtime combat.
But in EVE it is the social aspect that's better than anywhere else. There are things similar to many MMORPG's, but still there are way more things different in it. Everything is driven by players. Almost every little thing in the game and any ship is manufactured by someone, corporations (like clans in WoW) have real politics, diplomacy, production (not those that you have in WoW and L2, I mean real ones). Recons and moral disorientations during blockades, big tragedies of collapsing 2500-member alliances And trust me, you have to fit your ship and to act really smart to actually be successful over other players. I does require skill. Lots of it. EVE is very hardcore, though. Often you lose your ship and you are screwed - paid insurance can cover only a ship itself, not precious rare equipment. And you lose ships there. A lot. You need to think how to earn money. You can officially pay for the game with in-game money in the game itself (costs A LOT, though).
There are no levels here, no classes. You don't have to actually be in the game to train your character's skills. For me, the game can be both relaxing and thrilling. Until i lose my ship... Then, I have to admit, it might become disturbing if that is my main, favorite and expensive ship))
The game can get REALLY complicated until you get along with it (will take at least a week to get a handle of basic gameplay mechanics), but it is both challenging and different.

Heh, Yahtzee really failed at this one...

I believe he didn't really play the game as it should be played, and most of the commenters were so influenced by this, damn. Yes, EVE is hard, and takes a day or two to get used to it, but believe me, it scares off idiots. As the posts above say, the social part of this game is unrivaled by anything so far. I wouldn't be playing EVE if I weren't taking part every day in fleet operations, let it be exploration, mining or combat.

Also, if you don't like the skill system and the interface, then you seriously need to get back to WoW. Here, it's not the ingame skills, but your own skills are what matter anyway. The game is unforgiving but not for the smart ones, and I never ever saw a game built up as logically as EVE. Yes it might be complex, but it's logical, and everything has its use. Hell, if you complain about EVE, try X2.

There's a style for everyone. Try PvP if you're the shoot em up guy, or try market PvP which entirely depends on your skills, mine, explore, manufacture. What did I forget? Missions. You can do that too, but if you do ONLY that, you can might as well go play any other MMO, since that's the only common part, and I'd say the least used by clever players.

Yes, EVE is unforgiving and that's where it rocks really. Life is never fair, and nobody said all video games should be. The difference in EVE that in view with its extensiveness, it's well balanced I'd say, where YOU, not your ship decide what will happen in a fight. Be smart and you'll survive. Also guys, I don't see your problem with the interface and tutorial. Try making a game where you can do more than this, with less interface and learning.

And don't forget, you do this in corporations. As mentioned above, not joining corporations is like playing an FPS without shooting. Yahtzee did exactly this... I always thought he was funny, though a bit narrow minded, but he succesfully passed the point where I don't care about such people. And the worst in it that people who would possibly love this game now hate it because of your video.

Medve

Tbh I dont think Yahtzee should spend the amount of time required to "get into" Eve, after 3 months I now consider myself "ready to start the game". That would mean 12 ZP videos out the window :) would you sacrifcie that for the sake of a good review?

i love this video. finally something to make fun of that stupid game. All of my guy friends obsessed over it and bugged me to play it when i found it worthless and annoying.

Hi 5 and kudos galore.

I don't know if you're going to read this, but if you do - please do a review of "A Tale In the Desert". It's a great second-job simulator that's seriously more complex than your regular job (and probably more tedious) but it's really quite amazing in some way. I think it would make for a great review.

Thanks. (No, I'm not a troll, I really mean it.)

this is to date, my favorite Zero Punctuation review. My roommate plays this snoozefest constantly and I swear it's eating his soul away

Just remember, not everything has to be about magic, orcs or killing things. In Eve, you can certainly become an expert fighter pilot, but you can also mine, research, become an arms dealer, manufacture weapons for whatever war is currently raging, or pretty much anything you want to be. Sure, skills can take time, but the fact you can train while AFK is a GOOD thing. And yes the beginning can seem a bit overwhelming, but with good in game tutorials, helpful players and guides for everything from mining to making your first million, if it is given a chance, the game really does take you away from your troubles. I've been playing fro 3 years and somehow have managed my social life, various jobs (I work from home now) and my marriage. It is doable.

hersheygirl4:
i love this video. finally something to make fun of that stupid game. All of my guy friends obsessed over it and bugged me to play it when i found it worthless and annoying.

Hi 5 and kudos galore.

Honey, shouldn't you be playing Barbie's dollhouse adventure or something?
Women are too shallow and retarded to play this game, and they run away crying when they see that there is no ingame character and no makeup involved...
Go play your shit kiddie girlie, NERFED WoW please...

The only thing stupid, worthless and annoying here is you...

Bitches don't know 'bout my Eve Online...

Edzor:

hersheygirl4:
i love this video. finally something to make fun of that stupid game. All of my guy friends obsessed over it and bugged me to play it when i found it worthless and annoying.

Hi 5 and kudos galore.

Honey, shouldn't you be playing Barbie's dollhouse adventure or something?
Women are too shallow and retarded to play this game...

The only thing stupid, worthless and annoying here is you...

Bitches don't know my Eve Online...

Damn, that was a mistake. Unless you don't give a shit about staying here.

Um, why was it a mistake?

Because i am being mysoginistic?

It is a well known fact that PC games, rational decisions, acting in a mature and non retarded/hysterical way and DRIVING are things that females FAIL at...

I am as mysoginistic as ZP, and PROUD OF IT XD

Besides, i just don't trust creatures that bleed for a few days and don't DIE!

Oh, and to that other ftard that said "tries to be WoW, FAILS":

YOU SIR ARE A MORON, Eve was launched way before WoW, and if it wasn't for all the retards and 12 year olds running to WoW, it would be on top...

Ultimately, the fact that Eve scares off idiots is a good thing, we don't really need your dumb, non-hardcore, casual asses in our game...
And those of you who survive will end up as our prey and our scam victims!

In other words, HTFU!

Why the fuck are people still commenting on this?

Oh, it's outraged Eve players who made an account here just for this thread. Even though it is now over one year late. I suppose they're matching the pace of their game.

Edzor:
Um, why was it a mistake?

Because i am being mysoginistic?

It is a well known fact that PC games, rational decisions, acting in a mature and non retarded/hysterical way and DRIVING are things that females FAIL at...

I am as mysoginistic as ZP, and PROUD OF IT XD

Besides, i just don't trust creatures that bleed for a few days and don't DIE!

Fuck sake, troll much?

I never troll, i voice my opinions...

If Big Brother (the internet) considers my opinions "trolling", i feel sorry for it...

"Trolling" has become the general excuse for bans and timeouts, even if a person's opinions are perfectly valid...

I hope to see the day when people can voice their opinions on the internet using whatever language they choose without being in constant fear of the banhammer...

Oh, and here's a little something for all the pussies that couldn't stomach Eve out there:

From the makers of Eve Online themselves, i present to you:
Permaband: HTFU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

And i also hope to see the day when PC games are more than just brainless fun, and more of a challenge, like chess or something...

TBH, people that are over 18 years old should already be over the "games should be brainless fun" part and more onto the "games should be a challenge" side of the board...

Maybe that's just me, having an IQ of 120 and all, but still, i sincerely think that this is the way it should be...

And that is what Eve is trying to achieve!

It's a challenge, not a dumb grindfest like WoW and all it's clones (kill x monsters in x amount of time and bring me all their balls or w/e), and that is why Eve is so slowly paced...

Also, unlike all the other MMO's i've played, Eve is the only one that truly keeps evolving, it is already at it's 12th FREE expansion...

WoW only had 2, now 3, and all they did was NERF the game, add some items and classes and call it a day and take your money...

So yeah, i am not a troll, i am just defending something worth defending, and if some of you baboons think otherwise, i am surprised you can still breathe with all that stupidity crammed inside you... (Yahtzee is a whole different class of gamer, so he is not part of the crowd i just described, he only does it for da lulz!)

Edzor:
shit

An an eve player, I would like to apologize for this retard.

I swear, most of our trolls are at least interesting. This one CAOD itself would be ashamed of.

uc.asc:

Edzor:
shit

An an eve player, I would like to apologize for this retard.

I swear, most of our trolls are at least interesting. This one CAOD itself would be ashamed of.

I am not a troll, and unlike your dumb ass, i have badges and some actual posts and activity since I joined this website/forum, mister 2 troll posts 1 autobadge anon JUNE 2009...

So why don't you GTFO, and go back to CAOD and the STEAM forums, you only came here to swear at people like a moron and edit their quotes...

And use fail grammar...

Just what i was looking for.

I think so far your (talking to Yahtzee here) Eve review is the best in the series. Nothing else has managed to make me laugh so hard its just pure fun to watch it. Sometimes after the weekly new video i just scroll back into the archive to see it again.
Maybe its cuz im so involved with WoW and the mmorpg genre i dont know but it rly cracks me up.

And also cuz by the time i saw it i already tried the trial and found everything you said true. if that is not the king of boredom games then im pretty sure its somewhere around the throne flapping like a chicken xD

p.p: Luv the show i wish you post new stuff twice a week! xD

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