Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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To you morons who think Yahtzee's 14-day based disapproval is justification for thinking the game just another badly-made World of Warcraft clone, or a generally bad-made game altogether, go become a Scientologist or something, since you're a unimaginative, lazy ewe who likes to live on a whim. Yes, as he is a reviewer, you would do good to heed the opinion of a learned man like Mr. Croshaw when trying to form an opinion of a game yourself. The key words here are 'form an opinion of a game yourself'. Really, you should know by now whether you like EVE or not. Unlike WoW who tries to cater to all, fails, but still reaps in enough profits to but their own private island and pay a marching band of moaning whores to walk down the office every day, EVE is a game that, while you take as much out of it as you put in to it like all other games of the genre, you have to do more than this to excel. Dull, tedious and unintuitive at times? For certain. It doesn't make it any worse than point and click games ( well, to be honest, EVE is pretty point-and-click to an even greater extent, but try to get my point )'like' WoW, which is some compromise between traditional roleplaying games and the frothy-mouthed world of first-person action shooters.

It's the true thinking man's game, and to get the most out of it, you'd really have to have a degree from an Ivy League school in mathematics and economics. But kind of like I'd need to have been dropped rather frequently as a child to still pay for World of Warcraft in proportion to how much ACTUAL enjoyment I'm still getting out of it, you like what you like, and don't what you don't. I certainly don't like not being able to take in all of the complex firing rate to tracking speed to weapon velocity to target velocity mathematics that I at times have to crunch to get the best out of my marketing decisions, and much less having to fly half across the fucking universe just to buy a gun for 20% cheaper than the one I could've bought in my own station, but I do enjoy having a sleek, gold-plated pimp machine that pumps out red streams of coherent photons... of death, all the same time pulling that pesky little darting frigate closer to me with large waves of gravity-manipulating energy.

You know, kind of like I hate having to kill x amount of x for x bloody hours just to afford to get x magical codpiece of the lion's bullocks.

I just have to ask - what is a purpose of having an advert for Zero Punctuation after the review?

Come on. We've already watched it. We know that Zero Punctuation is posted every Wednesday on The Escapist. WE'RE ALREADY THERE!!!

Just wondering...

I never saw what the big deal was about eve. Basically I think people like it because they wanted to play an MMO in space. Fuck 'em.

I personally have only gotten into one MMO ever, and it's called Asda Story. It's not well known, and it does have a lot of the same crappy MMO elements, but there's a lot of other interesting things thrown in.

You can make a soul bond with another person and have extra abilities and experience points just for doing so, for example. Also there's some real strategy involved as when I'm attacking a monster, I tend to get gangraped by all his friends unless I (as an archer) shoot a magical arrow that makes them bleed a good 50 hit points every couple seconds and then another one that hits everyone within range of the one I was aiming at that poisons them for 200 hit points every quarter of a minute, then focus my alternating 'normal kicking-things-around' attack and my special 'press the 6 key after the skill cools' attack on the one that still has the most health and the least bleeding. Then by the time I kill that one, the other three are already dead. That's a feeling of accomplishment, right there.

Oh yeah, the best thing about Asda is that I don't have to pay for it.

One more thing. If 14 days isn't enough time to know whether or not I like a game or not, then first of all, what the fuck is the purpose of the free trial, if not to make people like it enough by the end to buy it? Second of all, I need immediate satisfaction, personally.

Its one of those games that only appeals to a few people.

To be honest, I got the 21 day steam free trial, and very much enjoyed it. There where a few things that where total arse, but something about it grabbed me. However, at the very end of my trial, when the 'BUY NOW' words flashed across my screen...

Do I really want to pay for this?

Answer?

NO.

keyton777:

Indigo_Dingo:
Why does he insist on reviewing old stuff instead of stuff like Ratchet and Clank: Quest for Booty?

simple my friend, most of the new stuff is crap, and there is an ocean of old crap to sift thru

I just listed something new that isn't crap.

This is about the first review that I've actually disagreed with.

Actually no, I'll correct that. I agree with everything that you've just said; because the only part that you played/reviewed was the part of the game which is there because there's an unbelievable amount of people in the world who want to pay for a massively MULTIPLAYER online game and then play it by themselves. The developers have to shoe-horn single player missions into games so that that sort of person has something to do without having to make friends or socialise in any way. That part of the game is incredibly tedious, pointless and generally not fun in the slightest. The only problem is that this is the part of the game that all new players are introduced to; resulting in most new players thinking that this is what EVE is about. It's not.

The real point of EVE is the social and political aspect of the game, it is entirely possible to get to that point in the game without losing your entire life over it, in fact it's designed to be like that, which is why the skill training carries on when you aren't online so that you can still progress even if you only actively play once a week.

All that being said though, it's an immensely complicated game. The only reason that I have any clue about it at all is because I've been playing on and off since it was released when the game was significantly simpler, if I was starting from scratch right now it would be a nightmare and I would be completely put off.

So yeah, I agree with this review; I just think it's a shame that the good part of EVE is so difficult to get to because I've found that it has been one of the most rewarding and thrilling MMOGs that I've ever played; you just can't achieve anything meaningful enough to hook you in within the 14 day trial or significantly longer than that. Particularly if you only play alone.

Multiplayer does not mean cooperation.

I tried the 14 day trial as did Yahtzee and I was disappointed...everything he just said...I agree with...

A stellar review as usual.

I joined just to reply to this weeks review.

I haven't laughed so hard in a while, I tell you that much. So thumbs up on that!

Now, I do however think Yahtzee didn't get a few things right... First off, player corps are very diverse. Some are, like he said, "JOOOINZ UZ NOWS!", while others are made up of decent and fun loving people. I think it's like this in any MMO really. But if one was to make some statistics, then I'm sure that EVE has a lot less of the idiot-crowd than, say, WoW. Also, I don't really understand the complaint about large number of skills and their naming; at the start you just pick basic guns, and those oddities come MUCH later... at which point you know what you need rather than pick them blind. Also, the question of how friendly the UI is is a matter of debate; considering the options that EVE provides, I'd say it's really good.

I do however have to agree about the NPC combat and missions; they suck. They're repetitive and pure "grind". PvP combat is a bit more interesting due to the large number of things that can go wrong or right...

Finally, a word about the skills system: EVE has a terrible tendency to be extremely slow at the start, despite being able to complete the early skills in a matter of minutes. That's because you still need SOME ship setup (and, above all, a decent ship), and that takes some diversity. But even with the 14-day trial I managed to get a cruiser and do some nice blasting here and there... but I won't deny: you need SOME in-game knowledge of how things work to get that done, and if you're just jumping right in chances are you won't know what the hell you're doing.

I somehow suspect that Yahtzee didn't really socialize at all in EVE... not even with the nice people from the newbie help channels. If he did, I'm sure he'd get a lot more information and he'd be able to get more done within those 14 days. Alas, this game CANNOT be played 'alone'. Well, I take that back; it can, but then it's really, REALLY boring.

Still, with all said and done, this game is nevertheless a lot better than the X series in all aspects but the combat... and THAT game series always got some oddly high scores everywhere.

I wasted two years of my life on EVE before I quit this past March. Even with the blissful scabs of forgetfulness covering my memories of that game, I feel confident in stating that this video is fully accurate.

Funny review as usual, never played eve though, so I can't say if he's right or wrong.

wolfeman42:
After watching someone play this game and have them explain it to me, this review hits it spot on. Yes, MMORPGs are work, but this game makes it seem like slavery. I would be paying to turn my computer off and walk away so I could level up? I would have to be a nerd who has penis envy (in which case I make up for it with a high level) or a complete idiot to go for that.

Just so everyone's clear, you don't actually have to stop playing to skill up. You can play 23 hours a day from the word go if you're that sort of player.

I play Eve Online, for starters.

Yahtzee made a number of very accurate statements concerning the game. Some subtler details of the game he missed out on.

Combat in Eve is actually considerably more complicated than he made it out to be, but the mechanics behind it are somewhat obtuse and a new player on a 14 day trial isn't going to need to understand these mechanics.

Something about Eve that is unlike any other MMO is that a relatively new character could take out a veteran of a year or more, depending on the situation. This makes it a great PVP game.

Further, a small ship, even the smallest, can have a very significant impact on the outcome of a battle, and in swarms can potentially take out the biggest baddest ships in the game. The goons from Something Awful (Who are CRAZY about Eve, BTW) took out a Titan (biggest ship in the game) with swarms of frigates (smallest!) and minimal support from a few larger ships.

Eve is probably one of THE most complicated games I've ever played in my life, and definitely the most complex MMO. Considering how console-centric Yahtzee seems to be (can't blame him, thats where the industry is going it seems) I'm not only surprised he reviewed it but that he even made as many astute observations as he did.

As for it being boring though, I'm sure yahtzee didn't fly into the "unprotected" space seeking blood. He has no excuse either, because a 2 day old newbie can do this and still get kills if he picks his targets right. Ever wanna be a space pirate? Talk about adrenaline! YARRR. See, Eve doesn't hand you fun on a silver platter per se, but if you give it a chance you'll find your niche and maybe it'll just hit the spot. So perhaps I'd venture to say that Yahtzee kinda missed the mark on this one. Can't blame him... I found EVE difficult to just wrap my mind around, but reviewing it? Damn.

Tries to be WoW.

Fails miserably.

Its not really fair to say it tries to be WoW. Why? Because it is actually OLDER than WoW; the game was released in 2003.

And here was me actually thinking EVE was different. Silly me. It seems basically to have got caught up in minutiae that even a D&D player wouldn't care about. Still, Yahtzee makes it sound much funnier than that.

It is different than WoW; saying it is like WoW is a bit misleading. It is an MMO, which means that it is fundamentally similar to all other MMOs on some level, but it isn't particularly like WoW any more so than, say, it is like Homeworld.

The reality is that it differs significantly. The largest difference is the fact that in Eve, you spend approximately 95% of the time in the game AFK.

He did in fact hit the nail on the head when he said it is a game that doesn't want to be played because, let's face it, it isn't. Its a game in which time directly equates to experience, and if you don't want to, you don't have to really do anything. Its actually a pretty brilliant plan as you can play it very casually and level up.

The issue is that while this system is brilliant, both from an economics standpoint and the standpoint of someone who doesn't want to grind, the game still INVOLVES grinding via getting money. On the other hand, you can simply AFK while mining and only check up on yourself every ten minutes or so, but it still doesn't do away with the annoying grinding.

The real problem, however, is the fact that there is nowhere to go - the game is ENTIRELY player driven. Unless you're fighting with other players, or going out with other players, the game is completely without value as the game in and of itself has little to offer you. If you aren't a part of a player corporation you literally can't have fun playing the game for more than a week or so because you've literally done everything worth doing the game directly offers you.

Yah yah another Eve vet signing in 07

a. Eve is not a single player game.
b. Corp is just a name for a guild
c. In failing to actually play in multi-player mode he missed out on so much more to take the p*** out of. The fact that 80% of people play women in a rpg with about 95% men for a start and the high levels of homoerotic conversations that spring up because of this (I'm looking at you ball shaving conversations in irc), also he failed to see our outstanding culture of greafing and he didn't get blown up by a pirate demanding a ransom only to be mocked by his own corp mates.
d. Not every eve player is a virgin, apart from goonswarm, they all are, especially HK.

Eve online is not trying to be wow because it came before wow .....

wow year 2000 rsum
eve year 1999 rsum

I tried the fourteen day trial and I felt exactly the same.

Jesus christ, if this is what colonozing space is going to be like then forget that nonsense.

Yup, this is Yahtzee's most accurate review yet. Everything he says is true, especially the bits about the interface unfriendliness and the endless series of 'go here and shoot things' missions. Good work.

<- 3 years eve vet.

I made a bloody forum account for this post, so you better read it Yahtzee!!!

Agree with what you said about the game, if it'd just have the single player stuff there I'd have quit a long time ago; here's tons of other MMORPG's that do that kindof stuff better.

But I'm still playing it for the multiplayer. If you had joined say, eve university (as somebody else proposed I believe) for this you could've perhaps seen a few things that does make eve different. Since you'll never play the game again, such advice is pretty pointless, but I wanted to defend/justify the 12985612 hours I put into this game the last 3 years in some way.

Awesome, And btw you werent referring to me in that vid? cuz i did request that you do one on eve because of its "self grind" aspect. If so then i never said eve was different from others just that it was a self grinder. Otherwise too true review, but you woulda had more fun in a corp. cuz A. You fight bigger stuff with corps B. You dont gota crawl your way up the money tree in most corps they just pay you and of course C. Both your skill lvl and social skill bars will go up. But i still agree, eve alone is the most boring thing EVER.. i dont think i could play eve if i didnt have a friend and a corp.

Y'know, I think a lot of people forget that Yahtzee approaches a game from a particular angle, with a particular goal in mind: Enjoyable, thoughtful entertainment that you can get into quickly, without depending on a lot of other people to make the whole thing fun.

The thing about EVE Online is that you can't have the first half of that without the second. EVE is, at its deepest roots, what Star Trek would look like if reimagined by Mao Tse Tung and Adam Smith, with footnotes written by David "Son of Sam" Berkowitz. Any single particular EVE player is nothing more than a tiny cog in the grand financial/military machine; the biggest difference you can make is to choose which PART of the machine to lend your... err, cognosity to, which means becoming a part of a player-run corporation. Otherwise all you're really doing is treading water in a static environment.

And yes, PvP is a major part of the game, since so much of the game world is defined and held by the players themselves. The key rule to remember is "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose". No, you don't lose EVERYTHING if you're "killed" in EVE, but you do lose the ship, whatever weapons, modules and cargo was aboard it, and (if you're killed yourself) your implants and whatever skills your clone (think "backup version of you") isn't able to keep. Warfare in EVE is sort of a four-facet "rock paper scissors" game played in three dimensions, where things like angle of approach and speed really do matter.

Playing EVE Online in a solo fashion as a member of the NPC corporations is like playing a game of pen-and-paper Dungeons & Dragons by yourself- all you're left with is a bunch of numbers that hold no meaning and no real sense of purpose.

That said, Yahtzee does more or less speak the truth about the game in his review. It's a daunting game to get into, even though they've recently revamped the tutorial missions; it's designed to get you into the habit of asking for help, and eventually forming social connections. You can more or less go wherever you want, and do whatever you want, but the full consequences of everything you do fall on your head like a ton of bricks, and there's precious little warning that what you're doing is patently stupid and will end up with you sucking vacuum. Playing it solo is both boring and aggravating (unless you're like me and enjoy spending time flying off to look at stars or weird planets close-up) and takes a very long time to give you any sense of accomplishment.

I might add that two of the additions planned for the game- ambulation (actually getting out of your ship and walking around, preferably aboard a station, not in the harsh vacuum of deep space) and atmospheric flight (flying INTO a planet rather than just around one)- are promising to break things up a bit. I, myself, would love to be able to fly into the upper atmosphere of some gas giant and dogfight around the edges of an electrical storm twice the size of Earth.

All this from a guy who has had an EVE account for 15 months and still belongs to the beginning NPC corporation. What can I say, I like building things and selling them. Granted, I could get the same experience (and actual spending money) from taking up macrame, but it's hard to imagine my little decorative owl dust covers flying through the cosmos and blowing up some poor schlub in a dinky mining craft.

Dear Mr. Crosshaw,
Well, I'm glad you stepped up to my challenge, even if you only stepped up to it the same way a bored and overworked whore would to a client whose sex she has no intention of enjoying.
Here's the deal: you missed everything (where's the itallics for emphasis - dammit) about Eve that sets it apart in the MMO genre.
I wish I hadn't played it past the 14day free trial and experienced the things I have, but it's done now. I'm both engrossed and addicted. Mostly to the PVP, which is far more than you've inadequately described. The truth is that nobody less than a month old in the game is ready for even the most basic pvp. Even against another nubbin the fighting would be a vicious combination of confusing and gay.
You chose not to join a player owned corp. While it's true that most of the ones who openly recruit are either gay, stupid, annoying, or a wicked amalgamation of all three, finding a good corp of interesting players is key to enjoying the game. For one, you could never fully grasp the ins and outs of the gameplay without advice from corpmates.
Unlike WoW, Eve has depth to it that rivals one of the Second Life thingies. Take, for instance, the way some players simply mine, engineer, or trade to make money (and, as strange as it seems, to have fun) instead of using mission grinding or pirating.
Your character portrait is seen whenever someone is looking up your profile to decide how much of a threat you pose or if you're trustworthy. It's relevant. I use a girly avatar simply to increase my chances of getting away with the murder I'm continuously committing.
All for your consideration.
I'd also like to add that your reviews are getting less and less entertaining of late.
Maybe time for a holiday? Chance to explore new ideas and perspectives?
Anyhoo...

Hope this inspires you to greater and funnier rantings,
J

Elminsters Hat:
I wanted to defend/justify the 12985612 hours I put into this game the last 3 years in some way.

You don't need to justify yourself on forums dear, if you managed to get even one sentence of nerd rage directed at you in this time then it's reward enough in itself. In fact I suspect the sheer number of anti-eve wow player posts in this thread has given us enough salty tears to sustain us for another 5 years.

Also if you want nerdery you got it, Gallante are a drone based race not missiles and how did he manage to fit strip miners (visable on screenshot) and do kill missions on a 14 day trial?

+1000 nerd points if you please sir.

I played the game and yes, yes it is bone crushingly boring. It's one of those games that isn't fun AT ALL unless you were there from the second it came out, and the market is, as he said, completely useless until you have more money than god. Also it really should've had a Oblivion style travel system, but as it stands it can take literally HOURS to get from point A to a-few-systems-away B.

eve-o thread about that
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=862606

also here u can see what player make day by day
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

and BTW Yahtzee n00000000000b

Atrer:
I played the game and yes, yes it is bone crushingly boring. It's one of those games that isn't fun AT ALL unless you were there from the second it came out, and the market is, as he said, completely useless until you have more money than god. Also it really should've had a Oblivion style travel system, but as it stands it can take literally HOURS to get from point A to a-few-systems-away B.

You must be doing it wrong, then, since unless a couple of systems numbers in the dozens and you have it set to auto-pilot ( another interesting part of the game ), it usually only takes me minutes if I'm doing it right. A system can only take as long as one minute, or two if there's a particular distance between my entrance gate and the next portal to system XYZ.

Edit: Err, and in reply the fellow above me, while you did do a service by linking the thread, and I suppose I should thank you for finally finding me a political EVE map in something other than teensie-weensie 120x120 pixel-vision, calling Yahtzee a 'noob' hardly gains you any points.

Honestly, I thought this was a very accurate summary of everything that's absolutely wrong with EVE. The only thing that was missing was mention of the fact that the entire playerbase is either pants-on-head retarded or out to fucking get you with levels of passive-aggressivism hitherto unknown to online gaming as a whole.

Sign me up to the "I agree with Yahtzee" newsletter on this, EVE'll never reach my PC again.

I don't know, I keep getting the feeling Yahtzee has the totally wrong approach with the MMOs he hates so much. The entire point of an MMO is the fact that other people are there, hence the massively MULTIPLAYER online game. If you ignore everyone, of course the game will suck, it wasn't designed to be played that way.
Anyways, Eve was entirely about the corporations from when I played, and it was a good deal of fun to befriend some people long enough to gain access to the hangar, and run away with it. Only to get tracked down by a bounty hunter and be blown to bits.

Takatchi:
Honestly, I thought this was a very accurate summary of everything that's absolutely wrong with EVE. The only thing that was missing was mention of the fact that the entire playerbase is either pants-on-head retarded or out to fucking get you with levels of passive-aggressivism hitherto unknown to online gaming as a whole.

Sign me up to the "I agree with Yahtzee" newsletter on this, EVE'll never reach my PC again.

I think Yahtzee has better things to do with his time than to herd his legions of devout followers (read: you), however able to make a comprehensive few sentences they are. While we're on you, generalizing playerbases for games such as EVE is not the same thing as generalizing playerbases, say, like the Xbox Live crew; not everyone is a throbbing cock slap to the retinas.

To be quite honest I played this game about a year ago, I heard my friends praising this game and I decided to try it. To enjoy this game you have to find spreadsheets and math erotic and you have to find economics THRILLING. Otherwise you will hate this game as much as Yahtzee. For the love of god it took me half an hour to make a character and not in the good City of Heroes way. In the "Let me wiki this" way.

a bit random huh?

I mean this game has been around for YEARS. And no explanation like with painkiller...

If you told me I was going to make an account for some forum for the express purposes of attempting to give some insight to a man who obviously cares little for actually getting anything right, I would probably push the air conditioner in the window behind me out and attempt to race it to the ground after pushing my own body out after it.

With that said, I have to make an exception for Yahtzee, who is becoming increasingly pathetic in his reviews over these weeks. Once upon a time (parents get your children, or your cardboard cut-outs, because it's story time) I actually enjoyed the reviews Yahtzee bestowed to the public as an attempt to give out his hilarious opinions. Well hilarious opinions is only good if it isn't something that ends up becoming a short-term gimmick. Not that I'm saying he has to get every single review to be funny, but he could at least make me smile. At least when I'm smiling, I'm mildly amused at the bare minimum. It's not hard to make me smile, I enjoy funny things and I'm not picky about hilarity. However, I can't laugh at blatant disrespect for the industry or complete lack of what could be considered ANYTHING.

My point is, Yahtzee is becoming the un-funny much in the same way that Variable Fighter Gundams (yes... I am talking about Zeta Gundam, in which the Gundam in question transforms... In to... A fighter. Macross style... Desperation perhaps?) are the un-Gundam and represent the decline of civilization. You ask me how, I'm telling you I don't care and use your head to figure it out. I have to laugh at the sheer amount of neglect put in to the EVE Online review. Besides the fact that it's pretty much useless to ever review an MMO, it's even more so useless to review one that receives major updates over the years with a vast amount of content.

Even worse, I have to end this post with the fact that Yahtzee was actually ignorant enough to make a claim that could be proven true or false by simply using the internet (OMG Nobody uses that these days! I know it's a long shot to recommend, but sometimes there's places where you can LEARN! E-GASP!). Because obviously EVE Online is a rip-off of World of Warcraft despite the simple that that EVE Online came out a full year (even more so if you want to get technical, a full half year added to that is the plain truth) earlier and actually has decent updates. World of Warcraft couldn't be a larger piece of trash if they released priced expansion packs for the game.

OH WAIT... They do! Sorry about that. Well at least the almost yearly major updates for EVE Online are free right? They are? Ok good, don't want to make myself look like a fool again.

But I don't give Yahtzee enough credit, so here's the happy pie: Even though the review was essentially the George Bush of the bunch [If I have to explain this, HAH... (Yes this review was WORSE than the MGS4 one. I don't hate the MGS4 review because I liked MGS4. I thought the review was a piece of complete crap because of the fact that he doesn't seem to understand how MGS works yet still writes a review on it. The only reason I laughed at that review was because I was imagining Shakespearian Monkeys with typewriters typing out the word 'poop' which essentially sums up said review. End Parentheses) it did make some right points. EVE Online can be a BORING game. But then ALL MMOs are boring at some point in time. In fact, ALL games will bore you eventually. If you've been playing Pong since the day it came out and have the attention span of Wall-E in that you can essentially play thousands of games by yourself, then you sir are a hero and I would like to initiate a body-swap (no matter how much of a drop-out useless crap-shoot druggie you are). EVE Online is a fun game even though a lot of the high-tier ships are just colored variants of the same low-tier ships in different sizes, and it's BECAUSE it has such immense diversity and such fantastic systems of Player Corporations and Manufacturing and the like that sets it apart from other MMOs. The plain fact is: No MMO does what EVE does. You can name the largest fraction possible based on the current laws of math and physics and I'll still tell you you're an idiot for getting the answer wrong, because no game comes close to that fraction.

With that Yahtzee I suggest you watch Comedy Central. Demetri Martin is a funny guy, I'm sure he can teach you something about making individuals (yes individuals. I would've said people but if I had said that it would've been like saying all people are equal. There's too many drones in this world now to say that. Thank goodness Oprah hasn't suggested suicide to her viewing audience, otherwise we'd be faced with a MASSIVE population loss worldwide. ... Actually now I WANT her to do it)at least snicker and politely pretend to be enjoying themselves.

Now I know I don't have to waste my time doing all that up above this line... But I think my job will be done if at least person understands I have a point. Ooooo watch out folks! There's opinions in this post! AVERT THE BABY'S EYES! Edit: I have to comment I was amazed by the immense amount of people who actually decided not to touch EVE Online because of this review. Don't get me wrong people, I wont suggest EVE Online to anyone who isn't prepared for a large learning curve or ready to enjoy complications. So thus, I would probably never suggest this game to anyone who is actually turned off from a game which has a trial because of a not-hilarious review. There's a 14-Day free trial for EVE Online, I suggest that if you're smart enough to know WoW isn't a game (it's a running bill. Seriously) pick the trial up and join a corporation.

Sigenrecht:
I think Yahtzee has better things to do with his time than to herd his legions of devout followers (read: you), however able to make a comprehensive few sentences they are. While we're on you, generalizing playerbases for games such as EVE is not the same thing as generalizing playerbases, say, like the Xbox Live crew; not everyone is a throbbing cock slap to the retinas.

Considering evidence provided so graciously by people who would step up to defend EVE (read: you), I have to say that I stand by my assessment that EVE Online's playerbase is one of the worst in terms of sportsmanship, spirit, and community. While you may argue that thousands of players have forged player-owned and player-run operations in the darkest holes of space, we still come back to the idea that one of the largest and possibly most successful corporations in the game generally spends its time thinking up new ways to violate the good faith of other players by being infinitely frustrating, on purpose, to those who would otherwise leave them be and enjoy their PVP-free Empire space play, while at the same time screaming "Sandbox play, sandbox play!"

You may be able to say that EVE Online does wonders for the online community and that bringing together so many people to "build something" is incredible, but when the foundations of these "somethings" are essentially destruction, mayhem, and the purposeful spoiling of gaming experience for others, I have to question the nature of its players, and I answer myself contently with "It's run by a bunch of dicks."

EVE can claim intellectual superiority to every other MMORPG on the planet and be right; it definitely takes a dedication and higher mind to get into and enjoy. But you can crunch all the math you like and the end result still doesn't make up for the grievous hole where sportsmanship used to be.

(The only people in EVE who aren't targets are simply lucky enough to have avoided it so far.)

You don't have to generalize a player base to make the observation that one group is the loudest and most prevelant. I won't touch X-Box live because too many mothers buy it to placate their sugar addled children.

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