PopcornAvenger:
As far as "zombie canon" goes, I've an admittedly small nit to pick. Namely, I'm tired of the "reasonable explanations" for zombies and vampires. I wish Left4Dead had -true- zombies, not "infected". It's like, "oh, no, they can't be undead, that's just too unrealistic!". Puh-leze. "Wait, they're infected instead, yay, that's so much more believable, thus fun!". I disagree. Undead a hell of a lot more fun, and scary, than infected people. For me, at least.

Waiting and hoping for the day when media and games once again feature the real zombies . . .and all the emo anne rice-esque vampires die a quick and horrible death.

i think ive never seen any zombie flick where they call the zombies, zombies, maybe shaun of the dead in some parts, but still some stuff that they say at the end about a sickness...

oh and if you want to see evil bloodthirsty vampires again, you may want to check the hellsing manga and OVAs (the anime its not bad but its not bloody)

a OVA fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjMS-eMw1cg&feature=related

smallharmlesskitten:

You can't play as a Witch

TBF, it wouldn't really be a lot of fun as the Witch, sitting and crying until someone dosed you with kerosene.

Am I the only person on this thread that believes starvation or a single bullet to the head is somewhat better than being EATEN ALIVE?!?!?!

Are you all insane? Logically speaking (yes, I know logic and zombies, har har) you're arn't going to do well against the apocolypse zombies. If you somehow even GOT the massive arsenal that you get in the game (How many tables have YOU seen in a subway loaded with shotguns?) you still wouldn't be able to fight an enemy that numberous! Tactically speaking, it'd be better to hold up and (if necessary) make short strategic strikes for supplies than crossing over 5 county lines so that you can get some random helicopter that promises safety.

With four people against a smaller zombie force (of the zombies in the games mind) you'd have to have a positive outlook to conclude that one of the four make it across the street alive.

And then, after you suffer through the agonizing experience of being ripped apart, you then get to spend the rest of your life as a deformed and deranged murderer of the common man.

Way to go...

smallharmlesskitten:

Mariena:
Mwhahaha. Smallharmlesskitten, you got ooowned!

=P

Limos:
Hehehe, Smallharmlesskitten got eaten alive.

Thanks you two. I killed him a few times as well.

(I only had the game for two days as well)

That footage mysteriously disappeared and didn't make it into the cut...

Slycne:

smallharmlesskitten:

Mariena:
Mwhahaha. Smallharmlesskitten, you got ooowned!

=P

Limos:
Hehehe, Smallharmlesskitten got eaten alive.

Thanks you two. I killed him a few times as well.

(I only had the game for two days as well)

That footage mysteriously disappeared and didn't make it into the cut...

Lies... it's all lies. I'll get you again tomorrow.

Slycne:

gmjapan:
Nice review. Want to levy 1 criticism (and it might be coz i missed it...) you only mention playing as the 4 survivors in co-op. The game can really take off for some people when you play 4v4 taking turnabout as survivors and infected to try and beat the other team.
It can also be played single player but really you dont want to be getting the game for that, it'll get old fast.

The video supplement discusses versus mode.

I pre-ordered the game so that I could get the demo early, and I haven't stopped having a blast playing this game since. I honestly think this might be my game of the year.

Got it for Steam or Xbox? Steam name is Mooshielar. Lets play on expert and cuss about the director together.

"Jordan Deam is reloading"

Nice.

PopcornAvenger:
As far as "zombie canon" goes, I've an admittedly small nit to pick. Namely, I'm tired of the "reasonable explanations" for zombies and vampires. I wish Left4Dead had -true- zombies, not "infected". It's like, "oh, no, they can't be undead, that's just too unrealistic!". Puh-leze. "Wait, they're infected instead, yay, that's so much more believable, thus fun!". I disagree. Undead a hell of a lot more fun, and scary, than infected people. For me, at least.

Waiting and hoping for the day when media and games once again feature the real zombies . . .and all the emo anne rice-esque vampires die a quick and horrible death.

Meh, I don't care where the zombies are from, but I admit I was sick of all that magical stuff. Not to say non-magically done explantions are always better ("Dead Rising" was rubbish to me). However, I do find rushing towards me undead more troubling than the slow, shambing type. With the shambers, you know you can outrun them, wait until something else distracts them, and then your clear. The running ones have the automatic fear of things charging at you with no sense of self-preservation, and at the same time, you can't outrun them.

I think soon enough this game will be flooded by 12 Year Olds ramling into my ear that "Thar is a witch!!!111 Lets ALL BE SILENT!!!" and then be the first to make his flashlight on<.<

Chrinik:
I think soon enough this game will be flooded by 12 Year Olds ramling into my ear that "Thar is a witch!!!111 Lets ALL BE SILENT!!!" and then be the first to make his flashlight on<.<

Nah, I don't think zombies appeal as much to them - and they'll get tired with being left dead by other team mates for screwing up so much and leave ;)

Good game, good replay value, tons of fun with friends... well played Valve!

Rogue 09:
Am I the only person on this thread that believes starvation or a single bullet to the head is somewhat better than being EATEN ALIVE?!?!?!

See you after the bombs drop.

Doug:

Meh, I don't care where the zombies are from, but I admit I was sick of all that magical stuff. Not to say non-magically done explantions are always better ("Dead Rising" was rubbish to me). However, I do find rushing towards me undead more troubling than the slow, shambing type. With the shambers, you know you can outrun them, wait until something else distracts them, and then your clear. The running ones have the automatic fear of things charging at you with no sense of self-preservation, and at the same time, you can't outrun them.

Well, we're talking about two different things here, zombie origin and then speed. I'm fine with fast moving zombies - one of the creepiest and scariest zombie movies was Return of the Living Dead. Hell, even headshots didn't put those things down, you had to dismember them. Braaaaainsssss! I was fine with the explanation it was some top-secret government nerve gas - because even the government couldn't explain the hows or whys as to zombification.

The shamblers are creepy, too. There's this sense of inevitability about them - that no matter how many you kill, eventually, one of thems gonna get ya . . . .

I liked Romero's undead, original or extra-speedy. He never explained the why's or how, although the characters in the movies debated it. Some opted for the plague or virus explanation, but others claimed it was God punishing us - "God wanted to show us what Hate looks like", or "When there's no more room in Hell, the Dead will walk the Earth".

Shaun of the Dead was hilarous. Hated 28 Days.

Doug:

maddog015:
Has anyone played Zombie Panic Source? Is there much of a difference between the two games?

I have and I'd say yes. Zombie Panic: Source, whilst good, doesn't match the improved gameplay and team-working of L4D - there is a demo if you want to try it.

demo is no longer available, even if you have the file steam wont let you run it, best thing to do now is run over to the nearest friend who has l4d, bite him till he lets you play ! =D

And yeah i get your previous post i play at night a lot lol but people freaking out over the witch = awesome

TsunamiWombat:

Slycne:

gmjapan:
...

The video supplement discusses versus mode.

I pre-ordered the game so that I could get the demo early, and I haven't stopped having a blast playing this game since. I honestly think this might be my game of the year.

Got it for Steam or Xbox? Steam name is Mooshielar. Lets play on expert and cuss about the director together.

I have it on PC/Steam. If you want to add me, my name is still Slycne on Steam. And yes the AI director can be brutal sometimes. Oh let me spawn a tank for you in this nice confined space where you have no room to run.

Doug:

PopcornAvenger:
As far as "zombie canon" goes, I've an admittedly small nit to pick. Namely, I'm tired of the "reasonable explanations" for zombies and vampires. I wish Left4Dead had -true- zombies, not "infected". It's like, "oh, no, they can't be undead, that's just too unrealistic!". Puh-leze. "Wait, they're infected instead, yay, that's so much more believable, thus fun!". I disagree. Undead a hell of a lot more fun, and scary, than infected people. For me, at least.

Waiting and hoping for the day when media and games once again feature the real zombies . . .and all the emo anne rice-esque vampires die a quick and horrible death.

Meh, I don't care where the zombies are from, but I admit I was sick of all that magical stuff. Not to say non-magically done explantions are always better ("Dead Rising" was rubbish to me). However, I do find rushing towards me undead more troubling than the slow, shambing type. With the shambers, you know you can outrun them, wait until something else distracts them, and then your clear. The running ones have the automatic fear of things charging at you with no sense of self-preservation, and at the same time, you can't outrun them.

The slow shamblers will be stronger, as opposed to the infected horde that takes a few shots. That's the trade-off I would see. There would probably be more numbers too, but the way the scenarios are in Left4Dead, it's better off the way it is.

Jordan Deam:
It will have you huddling so close to your fellow Survivors you'll forget they're likely piloted by a bunch of foul-mouthed pre-teen misfits. Any game that can get stereotypical Xbox players communicating and collaborating deserves more than just rave reviews - it deserves the Nobel f**king Peace Prize.

win.

Ugh, another game to go on the list of things-to-buy. This is getting ridiculous...

I noticed a few things wrong with the review supplement: First off, versus mode has tanks spawn based on how well the survivors are doing (like in the game). It's entirely possible to have no tanks spawn in a round, and once my team had to fight three in a round.

Second, the AI in the game is great for normal and easy mode, but on higher difficulties, especially expert, their love of using health kits at merely yellow health WILL get you killed. And I've encountered AI pathing issues leading to me being killed at full health by a smoker three feet from them (the computers just stood there). The AI is good, but I didn't find them as impressive as in the real game. It would be nice if you could tell your AI counterparts not to heal you, though.

milskidasith:
I noticed a few things wrong with the review supplement: First off, versus mode has tanks spawn based on how well the survivors are doing (like in the game). It's entirely possible to have no tanks spawn in a round, and once my team had to fight three in a round.

Second, the AI in the game is great for normal and easy mode, but on higher difficulties, especially expert, their love of using health kits at merely yellow health WILL get you killed. And I've encountered AI pathing issues leading to me being killed at full health by a smoker three feet from them (the computers just stood there). The AI is good, but I didn't find them as impressive as in the real game. It would be nice if you could tell your AI counterparts not to heal you, though.

Agree, the AI does a decent job of sticking with you and covering you and a great job of not shooting you, but they just don't cut the mustard on expert- perhaps because none of them grab grenades and having a teammate who can lob a pipebomb during a rush or throwing down molotovs during a showdown is necessary. Also they tend to run INFRONT of you whilst your shooting, and they waste heal kits.

milskidasith:
I noticed a few things wrong with the review supplement: First off, versus mode has tanks spawn based on how well the survivors are doing (like in the game). It's entirely possible to have no tanks spawn in a round, and once my team had to fight three in a round.

Second, the AI in the game is great for normal and easy mode, but on higher difficulties, especially expert, their love of using health kits at merely yellow health WILL get you killed. And I've encountered AI pathing issues leading to me being killed at full health by a smoker three feet from them (the computers just stood there). The AI is good, but I didn't find them as impressive as in the real game. It would be nice if you could tell your AI counterparts not to heal you, though.

Thanks for the correction, and agreed on the A.I. issues. The bottom line is that even if Valve could have programmed the A.I. to play perfectly, it still wouldn't be as much fun as playing with three friends. You need someone to share those "oh shit" moments with :)

Actually, with further testing I have found that you are more correct than I thought (on the tanks, I mean). On the first few stages, they spawn none or one (more likely on later stages). On the second to last stage, they spawn one or two, usually one. On the last stage, they spawn 3: One after a big wave of zombies, one with the second big wave of zombies, and one with the massive wave of zombies at the very end of the level.

Well, I've played as Zoey versus two 'schwein' friends of mine and I managed the first 3 levels purely by running for the exit at all times.

They're far better shots than me, so they took their time to finish me off. The Hunter and the Tank are a mare to control at times, but nothing is better than a Boomer within a horde.

Any serious player should be able to drop a Smoker with ease, unless he gets some fool off on their own.

And the dirtiest trick of all: Get a Boomer or Smoker to stand behind the Witch. :)

Smoker's are too weak. They hit too slow and take forever to kill their opponent, and have a horrible recharge time on their toungue. If they did, like, double the damage of the hunter when they hit, I'd be OK with them, but hunters are NEVER worse than smokers except in areas with lots of rooftops and no branching paths (and even then, it's a tie at best).

To the above: There are dirtier tricks than standing near a witch... such as binding K to kill for boomers. You can explode without the survivors having a chance to push you away.

The_root_of_all_evil:
Well, I've played as Zoey versus two 'schwein' friends of mine and I managed the first 3 levels purely by running for the exit at all times.

They're far better shots than me, so they took their time to finish me off. The Hunter and the Tank are a mare to control at times, but nothing is better than a Boomer within a horde.

Any serious player should be able to drop a Smoker with ease, unless he gets some fool off on their own.

And the dirtiest trick of all: Get a Boomer or Smoker to stand behind the Witch. :)

Or get the Tank to throw a car with an alarm on... I hated that move. Happened to me twice

milskidasith:
Smoker's are too weak. They hit too slow and take forever to kill their opponent, and have a horrible recharge time on their toungue. If they did, like, double the damage of the hunter when they hit, I'd be OK with them, but hunters are NEVER worse than smokers except in areas with lots of rooftops and no branching paths (and even then, it's a tie at best).

To the above: There are dirtier tricks than standing near a witch... such as binding K to kill for boomers. You can explode without the survivors having a chance to push you away.

I like the smoker, just stay behind the group and get the last one in line while you are around a corner, they rush to get him/her, then a boomer or 2 hunters cause chaos.

OR

It's lovely when helping out a tank, or catching people before they go to the rescue vehicle, or pulling people through their molotovs (the dirtiest trick of all) but most importantly, if you can get them in an awkward position, then you can kill them without having to compromise yourself! The tounge recharge is pretty much the nerf of the smoker, but he's gotta grow a new one since they cut yours off anyway.

ElArabDeMagnifico:

milskidasith:
Smoker's are too weak. They hit too slow and take forever to kill their opponent, and have a horrible recharge time on their toungue. If they did, like, double the damage of the hunter when they hit, I'd be OK with them, but hunters are NEVER worse than smokers except in areas with lots of rooftops and no branching paths (and even then, it's a tie at best).

To the above: There are dirtier tricks than standing near a witch... such as binding K to kill for boomers. You can explode without the survivors having a chance to push you away.

I like the smoker, just stay behind the group and get the last one in line while you are around a corner, they rush to get him/her, then a boomer or 2 hunters cause chaos.

OR

It's lovely when helping out a tank, or catching people before they go to the rescue vehicle, or pulling people through their molotovs (the dirtiest trick of all) but most importantly, if you can get them in an awkward position, then you can kill them without having to compromise yourself! The tounge recharge is pretty much the nerf of the smoker, but he's gotta grow a new one since they cut yours off anyway.

Except for dragging people into awkward positions, the hunter always outclasses the smoker. Even in places with many areas where you could drag a survivor from on a roof or down from where he is, it's always a tradeoff between damage and safety. I've seen smokers used to great effect, but I've never really thought "Damn, if only we had a smoker" or thought "that smoker is unquestionably the reason why we won, and it would have been worse with a hunter"

ok i must say after reading the review and posts i opted to buy the game instead of paying bills...because im a responsible adult...and i swear after playing it...i joygasmed in my pants. First time I saw a tank come barreling around a corner i swear the neighbors heard me sh*t myself. This game will definitely be one of those things that gives me plenty of oh sh*t moments.
Only thing that pissed me off was this one kid was so excited about propane tanks that he would pick them up, run around, and boast about how white and smooth it was. So i shot it and blew him up. ^_^

milskidasith:

Except for dragging people into awkward positions, the hunter always outclasses the smoker. Even in places with many areas where you could drag a survivor from on a roof or down from where he is, it's always a tradeoff between damage and safety. I've seen smokers used to great effect, but I've never really thought "Damn, if only we had a smoker" or thought "that smoker is unquestionably the reason why we won, and it would have been worse with a hunter"

The tradeoff between the two is distance. While the hunter can pounce and fuck things up, he has to get up close, which makes him vulnerable, especially since melee is the bane of the hunter, and practically useless when the group is together - so many times have people just shot a hunter on someone while they were downed, but can't get a smoker because he's too far off. Smokers will pull them apart which will cause the group to run back or something, boomers will cause chaos and blind the other half of the group, then the hunters go in for the kill. Smoker was the spark that lit the fire!

That's just a scenario I had and it's a winning combo most of the time - outclassed or not, smokers are vital - and blood harvest is smoker heaven because of all the elevated positions and how easy it is to pull people out of the house in the finale, and heaven for the other 2 because of all the hiding spots.

I do think the hunter is better than the smoker in general, but I've definitely had those 2 thoughts you quoted come to my mind very often. I've also thought "That smoker is why we LOST" too.

ElArabDeMagnifico:

milskidasith:

Except for dragging people into awkward positions, the hunter always outclasses the smoker. Even in places with many areas where you could drag a survivor from on a roof or down from where he is, it's always a tradeoff between damage and safety. I've seen smokers used to great effect, but I've never really thought "Damn, if only we had a smoker" or thought "that smoker is unquestionably the reason why we won, and it would have been worse with a hunter"

The tradeoff between the two is distance. While the hunter can pounce and fuck things up, he has to get up close, which makes him vulnerable, especially since melee is the bane of the hunter, and practically useless when the group is together - so many times have people just shot a hunter on someone while they were downed, but can't get a smoker because he's too far off. Smokers will pull them apart which will cause the group to run back or something, boomers will cause chaos and blind the other half of the group, then the hunters go in for the kill. Smoker was the spark that lit the fire!

That's just a scenario I had and it's a winning combo most of the time - outclassed or not, smokers are vital - and blood harvest is smoker heaven because of all the elevated positions and how easy it is to pull people out of the house in the finale, and heaven for the other 2 because of all the hiding spots.

I do think the hunter is better than the smoker in general, but I've definitely had those 2 thoughts you quoted come to my mind very often. I've also thought "That smoker is why we LOST" too.

To your first example: Grouped together people are the bane of smokers far more than hunters. Here's the scenario whenever I see people close together.

Smoker: Tangles up somebody, the tangled guy gets meleed by friends, they fire a few autoshotty rounds in the direction of the tongue.

Hunter: Not counting pounce damage, which can, by simply angling it high, deal 10 damage even to a perfectly spread out (no pounce knockback) group, but you can also get three guaranteed hits in if everybody gets pounce knockbacked.

Hunters die in close range, true, but they deal a good amount of damage, while smokers against tight knit groups can't do much except maybe drag the guy covering their six a few feet away to a range where there is no pounce knockback and hunters are worse because of it.

Also, if somebody is in the house on Blood Harvest, they are doing it wrong. Barn is way better, and there is enough time between the big waves and the tanks to run into the house, heal, and get outside where you can best fight the tank.

Oh, good tip with Blood Harvest, have no idea why I didn't think of that, but then again, a smoker could be the one to pull someone out and at least distract them long enough to get some hunters and a boomer in. I also usually use the smoker tongue when together with a boomer, and hunter knockback like you said (I forgot about that, they use to not have a knockback effect), but I guess that goes to show that the smoker on his own is pretty much useless. Then again, it isn't his purpose.

Actually now that you mention it I just remembered how much I hate that damn knockback effect. The smoker needs to make a cloud of smoke on whoever he tangles or something, he needs an annoyance too!

EDIT: Hunter knockback in action

I wish you had mentioned some of the issues surrounding versus mode.

The AI director is unpredictable, while one team gets a swarm halfway through the level, another could get it right at the beginning. While one team can get a tank in a strategically advantageous position, another can get it while the survivors are in a prime defensive position, or worse, not at all. With distance being the goal for survivors, this severely unbalances the gameplay. A close match is not so much a test of skill as the mood of the capricious director.

*edit* Just noticed there were two pages, and someone already mentioned that. I'm still keeping it. I spent a lot of time wording that to make me sound a lot more intelligent than I actually am. Lack of sleep helps, for some reason I use more of my vocabulary when I can't keep my eyes open.

The PC server experience is dismal at best. With the privately owned dedicated servers running nearly whatever rulesets they desire, and lobbies having no way of deciding what server side variables are kosher, gameplay can be unpredictable at best, exploitable at worst. Password locked private servers are a pain-in-the-ass and a half to join, and experience numerous glitches and bugs (random difficulty/mode changes if they are preset, lack of lobby for rematch, unjoinable on friends list etc.) not seen in dedicated servers. They essentially developed multiplayer for the 360 and copied that 'feature' for 'feature' over to the PC, a move which has upset many core PC gamers.

All issues which I hope will eventually be addressed, but it's not the best way to show support for your main market. Knowing them it will be patched shortly... valve time.

silly zombies!
no cookies for you!
:U