Stolen Pixels #43: Build More Prisons

You don't want to mess with videogame pirates, dawg. Those are some dangerous folks. Truly.

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Is Herbert a real person? If not, where'd you come up with such a name?
Also, there's a version of World of Goo that costs money? Huh, how about that....

It took me a minute but I got it, and then, I commenced the "lol".

I keep hearing the numbers of the Goo pirates change though, AND that it's miscounted because all they used was high-scores to track it.

So anything the RIAA is involved with is still fair game then? *sarcasm if you didn't realize already*

No, but the point is that many pirates use DRM as an excuse for their actions. What excuse could they possibly have here? : P

You might have to consider that the world is not limited to the USA (and that everyone doesn't have ways of paying for stuff online) before calling all the World of Goo pirates "amoral assholes". But I guess they're not worth the effort - they're pirates aren't they ? Hey let's party instead, bring your own stakes.

(World of Goo hasn't been released yet in Europe)

That's a fair question. The makers could do a sort of those IP addresses logged as posting high scores, sort by afnic, ripe, arin, etc.

Then they could beat up their publishers "60 percent of our players are outside the US! They might give us money but we won't *let* them!"

mlkjhgfds:
You might have to consider that the world is not limited to the USA (and that everyone doesn't have ways of paying for stuff online

<18

Actually, you want a bad sign of piracy? Check out campus common servers. I go to an art school and there is loads of pirated games flooding across there daily. The most recent I saw was World at War. Hell, I recall a copy of Spore being distributed by a faculty member. Schools and such places always seem to be places rife with piracy.

The game is indeed a work of art, really original and maybe the work of a genius.. but 20 bucks for something I finished within .. 4 hours..

And I'm glad that at least someone realizes that DRM doesn't decrease piracy. Those who pirate it would not have purchased it anyway.

I played the demo to conclusion, then continued on to buy, play, con conquer the whole game.

...Satisfying. I feel good for supporting an Indie Dev team.

Also:

Dectilon:
No, but the point is that many pirates use DRM as an excuse for their actions. What excuse could they possibly have here? : P

Good question. Maybe people in the USA are being cheap because of having less spending money during a recession. No idea.

Mariena --

You only get to enjoy a theatrical movie for 2 hours, but it can cost 10-20 bucks depending on whether you buy the overpriced food that comes with it.

If it's not worth 20 bucks to you, don't buy it. They have a demo.

Deadly Yellow --

No one will argue that piracy on colleges is rampant. For world of goo, however, I wonder however how much of their 80% piracy rate is those who can't buy something where they live.

Which is the point the previous poster was trying to make.. with his hastily registered single-post account :D

Tryss --

Everybody likes having an excuse when they knowingly engage in unethical and/or illegal behavior. "The devil made me do it", "I didn't like the price", "It's not really stealing pixels, I'm taking them under the fair use doctrine"

Another great Stolen Pixels

Is there something about the name? I'm not sure I get the joke there.

I don't consider something being unavailable in your region a good reason to steal it. As much as you may want to play that game, you're not entitled to such an opportunity. Deal with it and go buy a game that you can find.

For some reason I can't help but picture Herbert talking like Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Somebody help me. :(

Mariena:
The game is indeed a work of art, really original and maybe the work of a genius.. but 20 bucks for something I finished within .. 4 hours..

I've paid $50-60 for games that only lasted 4 hours. :| $20 for four hours of solid gameplay is a bargain.

This makes me slightly depressed. The developers are going to be disheartened by this, and they'll probably include DRM in any future games.

That does suck for the developers, it was a good game.

gmer412:
This makes me slightly depressed. The developers are going to be disheartened by this, and they'll probably include DRM in any future games.

Why would they include a DRM when they already saw that doing that didn't increase sales buy a great amount? The copies of WoG that are running around is getting more people exposed to it, and more people that might buy it.

I wonder how bad this is, really. I mean, it's nice to imagine that a game like World of Goo could be selling five times as many copies if people were more moral, but isn't this actually sort of normal? I've borrowed tons of books and movies in my lifetime. I share all of my games with other people. For the one copy of Mirror's Edge I purchased this week three people have already gone through the story mode. Does that mean that we should've bought two more copies?

I'm not condoning the mass distribution of illicit video game copies. It's just that a lot of "copying" goes on where no one can regulate or monitor it.

And seriously, buy World of Goo.

because a game getting pirated is a bad thing to the people who made it. They want it to happen less. Even though DRM doesn't work, they'll probably try something like it to reduce pirating of this game in the future.

Good question. Maybe people in the USA are being cheap because of having less spending money during a recession. No idea.

I wasn't aware the rescesion was localized to the US : )

gmer412:
Even though DRM doesn't work, they'll probably try something like it to reduce pirating of this game in the future.

ElArabDeMagnifico:
I keep hearing the numbers of the Goo pirates change though, AND that it's miscounted because all they used was high-scores to track it.

Did anybody actually read the link to their article on their piracy calculations that Shamus (the author) posted in the comic's commentary? It explains how they got the number and states that they still think DRM is a waste of money. So we at least don't have to worry about that.

So if you pirated it, go pay for the game or live with the demo. Now. 'Cause I said so.

mlkjhgfds:
You might have to consider that the world is not limited to the USA (and that everyone doesn't have ways of paying for stuff online) ... World of Goo hasn't been released yet in Europe

Their website says it's region-free. So I would assume you can still buy it, no matter what country you're from. And seriously, 80%-90% of the people playing it have ways to pirate stuff online but no way of paying for stuff online? I'm thinking "words to the effect of 'no.'"

"No way of paying for stuff online" = 12-16 year old who thinks he's entitled to play any game, even if mom and dad won't pay for it.

mlkjhgfds:
World of Goo hasn't been released yet in Europe

Rubbish... you can buy it online from anywhere with internet... and if you pirated it then you definitely have internet.

Halbert:
"No way of paying for stuff online" = 12-16 year old who thinks he's entitled to play any game, even if mom and dad won't pay for it.

It is amazing how people can use "I couldn't afford to buy it right away" as an excuse to pirate something. If you can't afford the latest plasma TV then do you steal it? Now granted, there is the faint difference that stealing a plasma TV means stopping someone else from selling/using it when pirating a game doesn't but it is still a pretty poor excuse. Save up for it... how many 12-16 year olds couldn't save up 20 bucks if they tried? So much better for them to just learn to steal it than actually working for something...

"if u like the game buy it!" this is the code most pirates live by, however some stupids don't and they definitively don't have any programing or computer skills what so ever!

If i (hypothetically) was to pirate say The Punisher (or any other game based on a movie) and realize after 11min that the game is horrible and that i would have to commit harakiri if i ever owned it i think it is fair that i do not go out and buy it.
However if i was to pirate Gun and realized that the game is better than a triple cunted hooker and i then go out and buy it i don't think i have done anything wrong.

Mistwraithe:

mlkjhgfds:
World of Goo hasn't been released yet in Europe

Rubbish... you can buy it online from anywhere with internet... and if you pirated it then you definitely have internet.

If you have a credit card. I know, in the US you have at least three and three others to pay for them but in Europe the average is about 0 point something. Also, in ye old days there was a concept called removable media. You went to a friend (check Wikipedia for that one) with an empty media and got back home with a full media.

The fact it, the only way to get the game in Europe until mid December is 2D boys with the mentioned restrictions (I did, just saying before the first burning bag of shit appears at my doorstep, courtesy of some projecting moron) or pirating.

The66Monkey -- if you don't want to buy a game without trying it first, only buy games that release demos. If they don't release a demo they have something to hide, so you won't be missing much.

If, after having passed on a game, you learn that it is the greatest thing since sliced cheese, you'll still have the opportunity to buy it, but cheaper.

illiterate:
Mariena --

You only get to enjoy a theatrical movie for 2 hours, but it can cost 10-20 bucks depending on whether you buy the overpriced food that comes with it.

If it's not worth 20 bucks to you, don't buy it. They have a demo.

$12.50 for an Imax ticket at the local theater. Only ever bought one for the Dark Knight. Food's overrated and overpriced.

illiterate:
Deadly Yellow --

No one will argue that piracy on colleges is rampant. For world of goo, however, I wonder however how much of their 80% piracy rate is those who can't buy something where they live.

Which is the point the previous poster was trying to make.. with his hastily registered single-post account :D

See: China. Pirated material everywhere and no laws against it. Movies, hacked systems and games, you name it.

The66Monkey:
If i (hypothetically) was to pirate say The Punisher (or any other game based on a movie) and realize after 11min that the game is horrible and that i would have to commit harakiri if i ever owned it i think it is fair that i do not go out and buy it.
However if i was to pirate Gun and realized that the game is better than a triple cunted hooker and i then go out and buy it i don't think i have done anything wrong.

It seems illogical for people to go out and buy a game they already own for free.

Anaphyis:
If you have a credit card. I know, in the US you have at least three and three others to pay for them but in Europe the average is about 0 point something. Also, in ye old days there was a concept called removable media. You went to a friend (check Wikipedia for that one) with an empty media and got back home with a full media.[/QUOTE]

I can see lack of a credit card is a potential issue but there are online purchase methods which don't require credit cards these days - I confess don't know whether any of them can be used to buy Goo.

[quote="DeadlyYellow" post="6.78782.998219"]It seems illogical for people to go out and buy a game they already own for free.

Ah but they don't own it do they? The66Monkey has a stolen copy in his example, then buys it once he verifies it is a good game. Questionable ethically but at least it shows some ethics ASSUMING of course he follows through with it. Of course in the World of Goo example is that alledgedly most Goo pirates stole it and then didn't follow through.

Anaphyis:

Mistwraithe:

mlkjhgfds:
World of Goo hasn't been released yet in Europe

Rubbish... you can buy it online from anywhere with internet... and if you pirated it then you definitely have internet.

If you have a credit card. I know, in the US you have at least three and three others to pay for them but in Europe the average is about 0 point something. Also, in ye old days there was a concept called removable media. You went to a friend (check Wikipedia for that one) with an empty media and got back home with a full media.

The fact it, the only way to get the game in Europe until mid December is 2D boys with the mentioned restrictions (I did, just saying before the first burning bag of shit appears at my doorstep, courtesy of some projecting moron) or pirating.

Forgive me if I'm being naive... but don't you have banks? Cause I've never needed a credit card to add money to Paypal directly from my bank account. Furthermore, I can use my debit card from my checking account like a credit card, it even has a Visa symbol on it. I've never met anyone who's debit/checking card doesn't act the same way. Again, I'm only speculating that it's similar across the pond, correct me if I'm wrong.

Also : "The average number of cards per person was 2.4 credit cards and 1.6 debit cards. "
(Source : http://www.apacs.org.uk/resources_publications/card_facts_and_figures.html")

Riicek:

Forgive me if I'm being naive... but don't you have banks? Cause I've never needed a credit card to add money to Paypal directly from my bank account. Furthermore, I can use my debit card from my checking account like a credit card, it even has a Visa symbol on it. I've never met anyone who's debit/checking card doesn't act the same way. Again, I'm only speculating that it's similar across the pond, correct me if I'm wrong.

Also : "The average number of cards per person was 2.4 credit cards and 1.6 debit cards. "
(Source : http://www.apacs.org.uk/resources_publications/card_facts_and_figures.html")

[/quote]

I only have tangible numbers for Germany (about 25 million credit cards with an population of 80 million) and subjective impressions about France, Austria and Eastern Europe. However it seems to me when it comes to credit cards (not debit cards, that's another matter entirely) UK is pretty much an exception from the rule. It also depends on your bank. Most of the time, your ATM card is also a debit card but you have to get the credit card option in addition to that (for free or small yearly fee) - in which case you either get a separate credit card (more common) or a ATM/debit/credit card.

As for Paypal: Yes, you can wire money from your bank account. Never noticed that and I was in fact infuriated at one time that I couldn't do it - granted, that was some years ago. So forget what I said before, they are all douchebags.

Anaphyis:

I only have tangible numbers for Germany (about 25 million credit cards with an population of 80 million) and subjective impressions about France, Austria and Eastern Europe. However it seems to me when it comes to credit cards (not debit cards, that's another matter entirely) UK is pretty much an exception from the rule. It also depends on your bank. Most of the time, your ATM card is also a debit card but you have to get the credit card option in addition to that (for free or small yearly fee) - in which case you either get a separate credit card (more common) or a ATM/debit/credit card.

As for Paypal: Yes, you can wire money from your bank account. Never noticed that and I was in fact infuriated at one time that I couldn't do it - granted, that was some years ago. So forget what I said before, they are all douchebags.

Whoops, I think I was messing around with too many threads at once. For some reason I thought you'd specified you were in the UK. That's why I'd looked up numbers for that part of Europe. My mistake.

illiterate:
The66Monkey -- if you don't want to buy a game without trying it first, only buy games that release demos. If they don't release a demo they have something to hide, so you won't be missing much.

If, after having passed on a game, you learn that it is the greatest thing since sliced cheese, you'll still have the opportunity to buy it, but cheaper.

true but then gun didn't have a demo and well best game ever. But then there is also the fact that like watching a movie trailer a demo is design to bring out only the best parts of the game (but sometimes you wonder), if i play a demo and like it, then instead of running to the store and getting it i would pirate it and play true it and if the game confirms what the demo said (like in the case of Freelancer) then i go and buy it.

DeadlyYellow:
It seems illogical for people to go out and buy a game they already own for free.

yea but they don't own it =) but i mean it's not about owning a specific game or not, it's about supporting the games you want to see being made, it's is a brutally efficient way of putting consumer pressure. Imagine if you could for free sample every burger @ (fore example) macdonalds, some people would joust eat them self full on the samples but most people would probably purchase the things they found that they liked and recommend it 2 their friends. But this ofc means that commercials and hyping shit doesn't work and that is otherwise a sure way to sell a fair amount of your product even if it is shit.

@sir isaac: ..... yea maybe you should think before you open your mouth?

The66Monkey:

illiterate:

[quote="DeadlyYellow" post="6.78782.998219"]It seems illogical for people to go out and buy a game they already own for free.

yea but they don't own it =) but i mean it's not about owning a specific game or not, it's about supporting the games you want to see being made, it's is a brutally efficient way of putting consumer pressure. Imagine if you could for free sample every burger @ (fore example) macdonalds, some people would joust eat them self full on the samples but most people would probably purchase the things they found that they liked and recommend it 2 their friends. But this ofc means that commercials and hyping shit doesn't work and that is otherwise a sure way to sell a fair amount of your product even if it is shit.

I'm inclined to believe MOST people would fill themselves on the free samples when it comes to food. People can be surprisingly stingy.

And while it is a way to sell a 'fair' amount of your product think of what it's really doing. Brutally efficient way of putting consumer pressure? Of course. By pirating PC software we spread the message that we won't pay for it, thus push publishers to consoles. Justify it how you will, but remember it does not matter overall. It's the numbers that matter and when you have records stating 10000 copies of the product were sold and a server query stating 50000 people were playing, it tends to have a negative effect. Add into effect that it is an Indi game and now it's insulting.

You can obtain a decent opinion of a game without illegally acquiring it. Read player reviews (assuming it is well stated and formed,) watch gameplay videos or Let's Plays, etc. Just do not ask fanboys about it, GameStop employees, or major commercial reviews (IGN, Gamespot, etc.)

DeadlyYellow:

The66Monkey:

illiterate:

It seems illogical for people to go out and buy a game they already own for free.

yea but they don't own it =) but i mean it's ......

I'm inclined to believe MOST.......

well tbh i have no idea what MOST ppl would do, i try and base my judgments on what i do and how the economy around me works. I don't buy bad games, i buy good games and that goes for everything in my life. I believe our difference of opinion derive from a difference of A) how we view humans, B) how we think we can affect the world around us and C) how we find the functionality of our economical structure in practise and theory.
People have different beliefs of how to do the right thing, that is why there are so many different political systems. Some believed that MacCain would be the best thing for the USA some believed in Obama in this example believed in Obama and we will not know what would have happened if people thought differently.
I believe more people have been able to buy games they liked because of their ability to try so many games threw pirating, you might claim that the sales have decreased due to pirating but that is based on a bunch of assumptions about consumers that are probably inaccurate because if people had been that predicable there would never be any fluctuation on the stock market.

I hope Lo-Dawg gets life Oo