Jimquisition: PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

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Lilani:

daxterx2005:
Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?

This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[1] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games.

So, basically, the internet check is not needed and you still have to hope that Micro$oft will patch away that restriction 5+ years down the line...great.

[1] Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.

Trishbot:
Sony didn't exactly "do nothing". Resisting temptation is doing something commendable. They were in a position to follow Microsoft's policies, cater to the whims of publishers over customers, and said "no". That's doing something commendable, even if it is keeping the status quo.

Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.
image

Honestly? I need 1 really bloody, gory offensive game on it which is also good gameplay-wise before I buy it. So, next year, when Bayonetta 2 is out.

I really hope xbone fails hard. And I bet it will. There will be initial sales 2-3 million units and after that I predict it staying 3 million units while PS4 gets to 10, 20, 40 million...
It is PS2 era coming back.

Big_Isaac:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?

Seeing as I've never traded in a Nintendo game I'm willing to agree with them.

I just noticed something on the E3 footage in this video. Are the PS4 games going to run directly from the disc? If so, I guess people should expect some serious loading times.

Doom972:
I just noticed something on the E3 footage in this video. Are the PS4 games going to run directly from the disc? If so, I guess people should expect some serious loading times.

You can either run them from the disc or do an install for the game and the disc will be required to start it up.

If its the same as the PS3, at least.

Griffolion:

canadamus_prime:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.

Indeed, however some kudos need to be given to them for resisting the temptation to go the way of MS. Yes they protected the rights of consumers as they should be doing, but the temptation was there and they said "no" to it. I at least give my thanks for that.

I think Gandhi said something like "Doing nothing >is< doing something." Keeping with the status quo is a noble gesture if the alternative trend is destroying it or lowering the positive aspects of it.

simwaroar5:
My goodness Jim your head is so far up your own ass it is incredible, you don't even check all of your facts. Sony never said there would be no DR in fact they made it clear that there would be DRM, but that it would be left up to the publishers. Now you have to ask your self if you believe that EA and Activision are just going to let there be no DRM on their games. The Nextbox decided it was going to innovate, more than any other system. It made some sacrifices to push the industry to a more Steam-esque console experience. You are going to be able to share games like never before, and trade digital copies of things, something You can't do on PS4. The entire XBL community is going to be completely organic and allow for it to be constantly updated, constantly evolving, allowing you to jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home. Jim doesn't talk about that, he would HATE to talk about that. Jim only wants to perpetuate this ridiculous circlejerk, that Microsoft hates us and is constantly out to bleed us ;ike sheep. Personally I think they should just fire their PR department.

What sony said about the PS4 is that it is exactly the same as the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

Publishers already had a choice if they wanted to add DRM or not. The same is true with the PC.

The irony of your opening sentence is palpable.

Steam is only innovative because its also considerably cheaper for patient people than alternatives.

Steam without any price reduction isn't innovative. Sega did it back on the Genesis.

BBboy20:

Lilani:

daxterx2005:
Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?

This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[1] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games.

So, basically, the internet check is not needed and you still have to hope that Micro$oft will patch away that restriction 5+ years down the line...great.

Yup, pretty much. And in the meantime, you have to hope your Internet situation doesn't change while you own the console. Better hope you don't have to move to a place with sucky or limited Internet.

[1] Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.

theultimateend:
I think Gandhi said something like "Doing nothing >is< doing something." Keeping with the status quo is a noble gesture if the alternative trend is destroying it or lowering the positive aspects of it.

Indeed. And while it's sad from the perspective of someone who has the mindset of things needing to constantly be improving (which would be 99% of us) that keeping the SQ is considered noble, the absolute reality we find ourselves in regarding Microsoft makes this positive.

Heh, good stuff Jim. Just out of interest, how surprised were you at the announcement? Because I sure as shit didn't see it coming.

{theultimateend}:
What sony said about the PS4 is that it is exactly the same as the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

Publishers already had a choice if they wanted to add DRM or not. The same is true with the PC.

The irony of your opening sentence is palpable.
theultimateend:
Steam is only innovative because its also considerably cheaper for patient people than alternatives.

Steam without any price reduction isn't innovative. Sega did it back on the Genesis.

Yes what PS4 did is exactly the same as the PS3 and 360, because there is nothing new they are just selling updated graphics and coming out with some new sequels everyone has been asking for and their own exclusives. That's it!

Yeah they do add DRM all the time, there will be season passes, microtransactions, day-one dlc. Also Sony never said they had plan's for any digital sharing which Microsoft has. Along with the ability to trade you games in at Gamestop for 32 cents each. Honestly I never trade games in because they never give you anything, but you all want it so bad and you have it, but you are still complaining. The only people they are screwing over are the little games stores, but as we enter a digital age they are going away anyway.

Yeah well if consoles start adopting the Steam model (which Microsoft has been edging towards with all the new sales and the dedicated sale section of their marketplace) then it will be a great innovation. along with all the added game play benefits of the Kinect 2.

There is know irony in my opening statement you are just either willfully ignoring all the positives of the Nextbox or you are woefully misinformed.

Well, it's never exactly been a secret to Windows users that Microsoft is kinda chaotic-stupid. The only thing I'm surprised by is how shortsighted it all seems, like they're trying to decimate, excuse me, annihilate their userbase. Half the countries, no military sales, no internet without reliable 1.5Mb download speed ... it's like Vista all over again, only dumber. I still stick to my theory that Microsoft is terrified by the implosion of home computer sales and is desperately sticking their willy in any and everything in the vain hope of remaining relevant. It's times like this that I'm glad I sacrificed all those goats to the Cthonic gods of my ancestors to acquire the technical skills needed for building computers(Eris is my favorite, if you wanted to look into that.) :?

timboo_drow:
Let's not forget about the sheer variety PS4 showed as well. I keep hearing that people were more impressed with XB1's lineup but let's have a closer look shall we.

1.) A stealth game (sequel)
2.) A swordy slashy quicktime event game (God of War)
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
4.) A car enthusiast's masturbatory dream
5.) Halo
6.) Call of Duty (errr I mean BattleField)
7.) Call of Duty with Mechs
8.) A fighting game (complete with douchey immature trash talk)

1)MP
3) Previous game was MP
6)MP
7)On 360 and PC
So, from that list alone, leaves 4 true exclusives that you can only play on Zero but 2 of them are done by M$' own studios...yeah.

Has anyone actually thought what will happen the generation after this? What happens if the XBone goes on to have an equal or better market share than the PS4? What does that tell these big companies and what does that mean for the next next gen?

I would say that opening the doors for indie dev's when all microsoft mentions is minecraft (seriously? MINECRAFT is still indie to them?) is a VERY big something, but otherwise great video.

simwaroar5:
My goodness Jim your head is so far up your own ass it is incredible, you don't even check all of your facts. Sony never said there would be no DR in fact they made it clear that there would be DRM, but that it would be left up to the publishers. Now you have to ask your self if you believe that EA and Activision are just going to let there be no DRM on their games. The Nextbox decided it was going to innovate, more than any other system. It made some sacrifices to push the industry to a more Steam-esque console experience. You are going to be able to share games like never before, and trade digital copies of things, something You can't do on PS4. The entire XBL community is going to be completely organic and allow for it to be constantly updated, constantly evolving, allowing you to jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home. Jim doesn't talk about that, he would HATE to talk about that. Jim only wants to perpetuate this ridiculous circlejerk, that Microsoft hates us and is constantly out to bleed us ;ike sheep. Personally I think they should just fire their PR department.

This has got to be the worst case of fanboy stupidity and/or blind nerdrage I have ever seen. First of all, Jim never said that there would be no DRM, only that there will be no DRM on First Party titles, which is true. Any DRM that Activision, EA, etc wants to put on they can, but since there is no hardware mechanism they have to do the same Online Pass/ Verification Code bullshit that they have publicly stated that they are discontinuing now because it's hurting their sales. Will they come up with some new, devious DRM that they can do without there being hardware support for it? Maybe so, but that's potentially true on every system ever, even your iPad.

Second: The 'Nextbox' deciding to 'innovate' and allowing you to 'jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home.' Seriously? Where other than your own home are you when you're playing on a console? Do you think that there will be like XBone Cafes where people can sit around, being pretentious, drinking overpriced coffee and log on to one of the store XBones to experience a thrilling round the new spunkgargleweewee (thanks for that Yahtzee btw!)? Do you think people are going to go over to a friend's house to play the games they already own? And if so, wouldn't they just bring their copy of the disc like they have for twenty-five years?

I don't think anyone but the most paranoid, conspiracy-driven gamers think Microsoft hates gamers. the reality is that Microsoft's sin is to look at their customer base and see numbers instead of seeing people. They look at us as a series of bar graphs and pie charts rather than as a customer base and consequently have completely lost touch with making sure we are the ones happy with their product. They have us mixed up with developers. Developers are the ones who have no choice but to deal with Microsoft (or any other console) if they want to produce games for them. They are the ones who need to jump through hoops because Microsoft is the one who is providing the medium by which the only product they have can be experienced, and so to sell their product they NEED the console. So tailoring your system to make the people who have no choice but to deal with you to reach your customers happy rather than making the customers happy and telling the companies to just deal with it is really ass-backward. It's like a salesman customizing his sales pitch to the companies that manufacture products so that they will use him rather than customizing his pitch to make his customers happy so they will BUY THINGS. In the end you're gonna end up bankrupt.

MichaelMaverick:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

Perhaps, but so far we have no reason to believe so.

Also, given the public response and the fact all publishers are publicly saying "we were not the ones that gave Microsoft that idea...", "it wasn't us...", "we don't support it"; I believe its more likely Microsoft will pull a 180 a couple years down the line.

[/quote]Wasn't the share button also capable of allowing a friend to play your game? I think I saw that at the Feb. conference.[/quote]

Yeah but it saves to your system and we don't know all the details. Basically its a cheat button really, if you have trouble with a boss you can ask your friend to do it for you and you still get the trophy. Which could get so very annoying.

simwaroar5:
There is know irony in my opening statement you are just either willfully ignoring all the positives of the Nextbox or you are woefully misinformed.

Ok I'll bite.

What does the Xbox One provide me that my Gaming PC that does not?

Griffolion:
Indeed. And while it's sad from the perspective of someone who has the mindset of things needing to constantly be improving (which would be 99% of us) that keeping the SQ is considered noble, the absolute reality we find ourselves in regarding Microsoft makes this positive.

I'm very big on progress. You'll find few people who gets more disgruntled about old folks holding back progress than me.

But sometimes doing nothing is doing something.

Like you not stabbing me is something I greatly appreciate and I consider it a very positive part of my day. 7 Billion people and not a one of them is stabbing me. I really really like that.

On the flip side if you could not stab me AND help get cheap affordable renewable energy to the world. That would be even better.

Good thing everyone came out of the gate saying the next gen was a waste of time because all the companies were going to follow Microsoft's suit and declare war on consumers (not that that's not a bit of hyperbole either).

Shdwrnr:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?

I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.

Mick P.:

Shdwrnr:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?

I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.

The point was that OtherOS was a feature that Sony promised. They created it, they shipped it, then they changed their minds and stripped it out in a firmware update and started litigation on an enthusiest who showed people how to do it anyway. Sony has made promises of features in the past and thought nothing of tearing them away from you even post purchase. I don't see how people can trust their claims now after seeing what they think of their own promises.

hermes200:

MichaelMaverick:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

Perhaps, but so far we have no reason to believe so.

See above.

the simple fact that Transistor will be available on the PS4 is enough for me really, I look forward to that game being solid gold like Bastion before it

Shdwrnr:

Mick P.:

Shdwrnr:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?

I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.

The point was that OtherOS was a feature that Sony promised. They created it, they shipped it, then they changed their minds and stripped it out in a firmware update and started litigation on an enthusiest who showed people how to do it anyway. Sony has made promises of features in the past and thought nothing of tearing them away from you even post purchase. I don't see how people can trust their claims now after seeing what they think of their own promises.

Ok, thanks for that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS)

I guess I have 10GB on my HDD that is useless then.

Rainboq:

MichaelMaverick:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

Why would they? If they get the install base that it looks like they're going to get, leaving the policies in place, while focusing on ramping up the PSN marketplace would net them a lot more cash than turning around and screwing over the consumer. It would make no sense for them to do that.

OT: Its really surprising to see just how thoroughly Microsoft has screwed this up on a PR level. Policies aside, they announced things in the worst way possible, especially in the clusterfuck after they announced their console.

This! SONY has no reason to follow MS's lead and force DRM down our throats. All they need to do is follow the lead of Steam, iTunes and Amazon and actually give us a benefit for voluntarily moving in that direction. They have all the tools they need in place. Leverage PSN with Steam type sales. SONYs tech allows the user to swap out or expend their hard drive. So they have lots of space. They are using the Indies to bring people into the digital download space. They have GaiKai to allow for a digital delivery of a vast back catalog. And we will not be complaining one bit about it, because, like Steam, we will be getting true convenience and benefit in trade, and like Steam the choice of if or when to use such services remains ours.

timboo_drow:
Let's not forget about the sheer variety PS4 showed as well. I keep hearing that people were more impressed with XB1's lineup but let's have a closer look shall we.

1.) A stealth game (sequel)
2.) A swordy slashy quicktime event game (God of War)
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
4.) A car enthusiast's masturbatory dream
5.) Halo
6.) Call of Duty (errr I mean BattleField)
7.) Call of Duty with Mechs
8.) A fighting game (complete with douchey immature trash talk)

well, for all that I care about, the games I want to play are mostly available on either system or exclusive to PS, and the PS4 is cheaper. So therefore I like the PS4. I don't know much about the xbox exclusives. By the same logic, people who are heavily invested in xbox exclusives will probably still buy the X1.

King in the North! King in the North! King in the North!

Deadcyde:

MichaelMaverick:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

probably true, but they have been spanked pretty hard in the past for being dick holes. Maybe they've figured out they need to be jerks in small manageable doses instead of huge clusterfucks like the xbone and Diablo 3

wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?

fucking son of a bitch.

Blizzard said they're making an offline game mode for PS3/4 (if this doesn't come to pass, blame misinformation) but as of now that's what they've told.

Lord knows why they can't just give it to PC users too but I suppose Sony are a little more watchful over the ability to alter and hack games on their OS. But if that's a worry, then, kill it.

canadamus_prime:

I'd equate this to a Slave Master promising not to use the whips today.

Just slavery? You don't want to go for a full Godwin here?

It's a little over the top to compare standard consumer practices to slavery, especially the most abusive practices (and practitioners) of slavery.

timboo_drow:

3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)

Technically, but not because of the zombies themselves so much as the black hole their concentrated mass would create.

Laughing Man:
Has anyone actually thought what will happen the generation after this? What happens if the XBone goes on to have an equal or better market share than the PS4? What does that tell these big companies and what does that mean for the next next gen?

I certainly have. I was actually just coming to suggest to Mr. Sterling that he should dedicate an episode of The Jimquisition to addressing the people who are still planning to buy an Xbox One because the used game/online check-ins etc. don't matter to them as they personally have no need for the used game market/have a good internet connection. Aside from the fact that people should have the social conscience to realize that there are many people who will be screwed over by these policies and should reconsider supporting a company that is willing to alienate the less fortunate, they should at least consider a future in which Microsoft is allowed to get away with what it's trying to do.

If the Xbox One manages to be successful (not necessarily "win" the console war but makes enough money off of it to continue releasing new consoles in the future) what's to stop them from trying to get away with a little bit more each time? To gradually but inevitably deprive consumers of ALL of their rights? Used games and internet connections may not matter to you personally right now, but if you don't stand up to Microsoft today to let them know they can't get away with all the crap they're pulling, what happens when they eventually take away something that you DO care about? Of course, when that happens, there will be no one left to stand beside you in YOUR protest because they will all have already been dominated by Microsoft's all-encompassing attack on basic human dignity.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is capable of thinking long-term.

I'm sure that everything in the video has already been addressed many times over (and I see that the fanboy wars are already in full operation) but I wanted to say one thing about your closing statements, Jim.

Take away the game from game journalism and you've got a journalist. If we stop saying that game journalists are somehow different then regular journalists and hold them to the same standard -- which, albeit, is rather low for me right now -- then you're saying exactly what needs to be said and I expect no apologies. Sure, the Times or Atlantic may be a little more subtle about their approach yet while they're reporting news that affects everyday lives, you're reporting on news that affects consumers. Journalists are, by definition, reporting on news events that concern the common citizen. Game journalists report on events that affect the gaming consumer. Same thing? Maybe. Same principle? I'd say so.

My answer to anyone buying an Xbone is, and always will be, is "it's anti-consumer." Thank god for Jim.

(I'm also vehemently against the ideas, ie online phone home, that Microsoft has adopted. No matter how little I'm actually off the Internet, I don't want it. Period. If my principles fail me then I don't know what else I've got.)

Jimothy Sterling:
Power to the people!

Jim, if Microsoft really have declared war, can we get a vid of you dressed as Winston Churchill giving a rousing speech about how much they suck?

I'm pretty sure its now perfectly clear that Microsoft's Xbox one is Xboned.

Its probably only going to sell a miniscule number of units, it has no game that will get units out of the store...

Basically... They are Screwed.

Next Gen seems to be all out competition between the original Grudge match, Nintendo VS Sony. One who betrayed the other...

Thing is... Nintendo is bound to succeed regardless, guaranteed victory by sheer virtue of owning half the good game series from the dawn of gaming, and they aren't above letting all of the other games come over to their side.

...On the other hand... Nintendo doesn't have a device powerful enough for some games so the PS4 is still going to have something to do.

But needless to say, with one giant slain... There's a crash in the making... The real question is whether it shakes the very foundations of the game industry, or if everyone pitches in to drag the slain carcass of the dead behemoth back to turn into food for the hungry masses.

...Probably the later...

So... I would like to Congratulate Nintendo and Sony for the spoils of war they will soon gain. As well as for saving us all the extra $500 it would cost to get three consoles instead of two.

thanatos388:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.

as pc/Steam fan, i think its great if they do, so long as it isnt on a closed platform

Thank God for Jim.

As you said Jim. The problem is that Microsoft has declared war on the consumer. On me. Just for the crime of trying to use their product. That's not going to fly.

Sony may have done nothing. They may maintain the status quo. But this is one time that is a good thing. Doing nothing is better than making it worse. Often the best intentions have terrible consquences. Though, I don't even think Microsoft had good intentions.

Oh, check Amazon's Top games. Of the top 20, 4 of them are PS4 consoles or bundles. Only one is a XBone. Even going into the top 40, there are still no XBone consoles, though a PS4 Knack bundle shows up. And after that... It's all just PS3 and 360 stuff with some XBone and PS4 games showing up here and there. Now THAT is damning!

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