Jimquisition: Xbox One No DRM Emergency Special!

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Microsoft should do a parody of Sony's "How to lend a game to a friend" video: the EXACT same thing, but with 2 guys with black eyes and missing teeth...

Ladies, gentlemen, friends, Romans, countrymen, let it be known that today we won. However, don't get complacent. Any more of this DRM garbage or treating-the-customers-like-criminals-until-proven-otherwise-and-we're-in-a-good-mood bullshit comes from any company, not just Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, whoever, you say "we don't want that, we won't buy it," they'll take notice. The internet is your bullhorn, people. Get to shouting.

Viva la customer revolution.

ritchards:

OT: I'm still predicting that this was not planned, and they quickly patched code... which will break.

I have strong feeling that it was planned before E3, considering the DRM stuff wasn't mentioned at all during the conference and they canceled all interviews that were to take place after, that way they wouldn't get anymore questions about the DRM stuff.
The blunder happened when Angry Joe surprised Major Nelson with questions when Nelson was on his way between meetings.

I willing to bet that Nelson was under some-kind of no talk rule about the new changes until it got official announced, so he still had to act like the Xbox One was still going to have the DRM. Well, either that or with how slow Microsoft's PR department is and how it seems that their left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, Nelson might not have even known yet at E3 that the DRM was being revoked.

Edit: On the code thing, Microsoft has four months to get the stuff fixed, so at least they have some time.

MinionJoe:

Techno Squidgy:
No change is better than a bad change. Say every day, a man comes up and kicks you in the shins. You'd want change right? If that change were to be the man coming back with steel toe-caps, you'd think that perhaps this isn't the change you wanted.

Whereas Sony has kicked customers in the shins for years and years, and then suddenly said that they're going to stop.

That promised change makes them awesome?

You're putting words in my mouth.

To continue with this increasingly silly metaphor, you'd be grateful that they stopped but you'd still keep an eye on him in case he started again.

What have Sony done that's been so terrible anyway? I can't think of anything, but clearly there's something, maybe many things, that I've forgotten or not thought about.

Well, this video exists now. Huzzah for NMATV!
http://youtu.be/tRJ97ZeK_BQ

Honestly, the flak Microsoft took is their own fault. If they were straight up with us from the get go, and didn't dodge questions and gave us information, and maybe prepared their spokeman Major Nelson with info, and spoilered their vision for the future a bit more, and, well, didn't expect buyers to jump in more or less blind with few solid facts, they might not have taken the heat they did.

They should've used some tact, and diplomacy to explain things better.

All in all, I think they ended up generating all the wrong impressions. All they really talked about in gaming was restrictions, restrictions, restrictions. What freedoms were given came tied to heavy handed restrictions.

They seemed to show little forethought. Especially towards the military, charities, and so forth that rely on gaming initially.

We're talking about the Xbone, but not in any sort of positive light.

Seriously, I don't think we're ready for a pure digital DRM PC styled console. Didn't the PSP try an all digital download method already?

Honestly, it's going to be a while before I get any new console. I need to see their libraries grow first off. It's time that Xbone can use to get their stuff straight with me.

Right now, I'm content to stick to my current consoles for a while. There's this gen games that'll content me.

And I agree with the sentiments of never forget!
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!

And honestly, this game sharing thing? Last I heard you can't play the game you lent while it's lent. Last thing I need is someone pestering me that they wanna play the game while I'm trying to enjoy it. Then again, it's friends only, and if I'm selective about who I add to my list it shouldn't be a problem. I'm gunna need more than one game though for when I'm kicked off of the game I'm lending. Sounds like a mess to me.

Techno Squidgy:

You're putting words in my mouth.

Sorry. I like putting things in places. :D

To continue with this increasingly silly metaphor, you'd be grateful that they stopped but you'd still keep an eye on him in case he started again.

Exactly! Give them a chance, but keep the shin guards on. But I (at least) wouldn't suddenly become their best friend and pre-order their console.

What have Sony done that's been so terrible anyway? I can't think of anything, but clearly there's something, maybe many things, that I've forgotten or not thought about.

They created SecuROM. Granted, it was EA that used Sony's SecuROM that holed my previous PC, but Sony created the tool.

They sued customers for modifying the PS3. You don't license hardware and companies can't tell you not to make changes (so long as you're willing to invalidate your warranty). If you then use the modified hardware to do something illegal, that's a matter for law enforcement, not private companies.

They regularly block YouTube content with even a hint of Sony content. Captain Sparklez still has a video locked because Sony (and Universal) thought it was too close to their content, even though it was a completely new and derivative work.

So, yes, Sony has a habit of kicking customers in the shins. Hard and repeatedly. This sudden turn-around with the PS4, while appreciated, does not mean I'm giving them a free pass.

I am hugely disappointed at this reversal. MS should have stuck to their gun, waited to see the results. I don't agree with their DRM and game policy, but I can buy PS4 instead. There are plenty of people who do agree with MS policy, and I feel those people got robbed of an potentially interesting purchasing option.

We had 2 distinct consoles and 2 very different gaming models, now we have only one. I say to each his/her own, if people are willing to put up the DRM crap for a digital/cloud system, they should be able to have that option.

Before:
People who like cloud/digital medium - Xbox1
People who don't care - PS4

After
People who like cloud/digital medium - ???
Everyone else - PS4/Xbox1

This reversal isn't a victory, it's bad news.

MinionJoe:

Techno Squidgy:

You're putting words in my mouth.

Sorry. I like putting things in places. :D

Careful now!

To continue with this increasingly silly metaphor, you'd be grateful that they stopped but you'd still keep an eye on him in case he started again.

Exactly! Give them a chance, but keep the shin guards on. But I (at least) wouldn't suddenly become their best friend and pre-order their console.

I'm not Sony's best friend by any means, but they've certainly done a grand job of selling the PS4 to me. It simply looks superior on all fronts, and apart from the fact that my PS3 is currently suffering from a YLoD, I've never had an issue with them.

What have Sony done that's been so terrible anyway? I can't think of anything, but clearly there's something, maybe many things, that I've forgotten or not thought about.

They created SecuROM. Granted, it was EA that used Sony's SecuROM that holed my previous PC, but Sony created the tool.

Sony created SecuROM? Well I'll be damned. What a nightmare that bastard was.

They sued customers for modifying the PS3. You don't license hardware and companies can't tell you not to make changes (so long as you're willing to invalidate your warranty). If you then use the modified hardware to do something illegal, that's a matter for law enforcement, not private companies.

Okay, yeah that's pretty shit. I bought the console, I can do whatever I damn well like with it. I could understand if they prevented them from accessing PSN from a modded console, but suing?

They regularly block YouTube content with even a hint of Sony content. Captain Sparklez still has a video locked because Sony (and Universal) thought it was too close to their content, even though it was a completely new and derivative work.

I'm probably going to put this down to lawyers being lawyers. All copyright legislation is bullshit anyway.

So, yes, Sony has a habit of kicking customers in the shins. Hard and repeatedly. This sudden turn-around with the PS4, while appreciated, does not mean I'm giving them a free pass.

No me neither, but that should go without saying. We should always be watching what the game industry is up to.

As I said already:

18. All Warfare is based on deception.

I want to see that Jimmy Fallon clip about the DRM but I can't find anything other than him shilling demos for both the consoles.

Good but microsoft don't deserve to be thanked or applauded for this decision, remember the absence of abuse does not equal kindness. We still have the kinect, or affectionately HAL, the only time I would find this useful is if I needed a pacemaker and if my heart stopped the console will dial up emergency services, but since that isn't the case screw them, since I do not trust MS in the slightest and expect them to turn on these 'features' back on in a service update at some point, like the PS3 got rid of some services in updates. I was going to skip this generation of consoles but the PS4 is looking more and more attractive.

PatrickXD:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down.

you're kidding right?

I take it you haven't been paying attention to diablo 3 or sim shitty? Hell, even WoW.

Always online can't be done. Secondly, what the hell man? Don't you have any desire for privacy? As well as the fact the xbone 180 will be doing things that you can get a smart tv to do, and the smart tv will do it better and cheaper.

It's supposed to be for gaming. Xbox gold membership requirements, average hardware, always on multitasking, forced kinect use. No, not even close to a decent gaming machine. If you want your connectivity so badly, get a pc. It'll do it better and cheaper.

As for your dark souls thing.. er, dark souls did it, so i assume we will know. Otherwise the xbone 180 is a travesty and even the reverse from DRM barely makes it palatable.

(so we're clear this isn't bias, this is xbro betrayal anger)

Sorry to pop the jubilation bubble, but this is not a victory. This is Microsoft at their money grubbing, self-interest serving best.

I fully expect this whole ugly saga to raise it's head once enough people have bought Xbones because they think that MS has backed down. Then like some video game version of the Borg, these Xbones will awaken and enslave us. Or at least remove our ability to trade in games and turn off the Kinnect.

The thing about change, and ultimately justice, is that it has to be objective and fair.
Yes, DRM is removed... the voice of the people has been heard.

It does NO real good if there is not at least some reward for capitulating. Otherwise you haven't really taught a lesson, you just won a battle.

If you slap a child for doing wrong, you may stop them from performing a bad behavior, but without the positive reinforcement to show that punishment is not just arbitrary, no lesson is learned. They'll just find a different way and revisit it again when people go to sleep.

You want the company to learn a lesson... FINISH THE LESSON. They heard the complaints, realized they made a grievous error, and reversed course. The message was sent and received. The community was heard. Now the community must show them that there is a BENEFIT to adjusting your business to suit the customer, not just at the START but even later if the need arises. People should be buying Xbox One now simply because Microsoft did something few corporations are doing these days... ACTUALLY listening to the customer complaints.

How many examples can you provide of Sony doing this? And I don't mean their yet to be realized promises with the PS4.
If you sit back and think about it, Sony for certain takes hard line stances and at least MS has shown a willingness to humble itself even if they did so out of greed.
When Sony installed hidden malware and rootkits on people's systems, instead of learning from it and apologizing, they pretty much said we were too stupid to even know what a rootkit was so why should we get all uppity?

Like Jim said, Forgive but never forget.. but forgiveness in the world of business means SUPPORT of a product. Otherwise, your forgiveness is about as useless as a fart in a hurricane.

geizr:

A company hears and understands ONLY two sounds, the creak of your wallet opening and the slap of your wallet closing. All other sounds are noise to be ignored.

.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think/hope Don will be renewing his gold account after his utterly retarded mouthfarts

Only thing bad about this is that the whole 3 fanboys MS had before will grow to 100 and I will still have to deal with them all.

Seriously, its like I'm the only guy who likes Nintendo and Sony where I live lol

They've hurt their consumers and while some of the abused will be crawling back, others will not, they shall look at this as a chance to break away. Oh what's that? You mean you had to wait for consumers and all of the media to basically throw a GIANT fit at you before you did anything? Oh yeah MS, congrats, you basically waited to do something decent when you basically had no choice BUT to. I'd of loved to of been a fly on the wall of that conversation 'b-but money!' lol, I shall not forgive them, they've been dicks for a long time now, though now that I have seen their 'true' face of what they are capable of, I know now that MS is only hiding behind an apologetic mask, probably waiting till we all lower our guard them BOOM DRM and everything else is back, 'ha ha you already bought one, so :P' goes MS.

Entitled:
Also a great new proof of the truth of the older "why complaining is more effective than boycotts" episode.

For everyone who was moaning about how people should just shut up on online forums and vote with their wallet, well, here is the result of not shutting up.

Who are these people saying that because you boycott something, you should also shut up? Boycotting almost always goes hand-in-hand with complaining. You don't boycott something and shut up, you boycott and tell everyone why you are boycotting.

In this case, don't you think that the "boycott" aspect was part of it? PS4 pre-orders were going through the roof, while few were pre-ording Xbones. I think Microsoft saw that "Holy shit, it looks like our sales might suffer" as the more significant factor than the complaining. It was like a pre-boycott, with people indicating how they were planning to spend their money.

Without that impetus, I don't think their policies would have changed before release.

Honestly, I'm still not convinced at all this. Sure, they've dropped one method, but they're keeping the compulsory Kinect, the Cloud system and other methods of controlling you and disk checking. And I'm betting after this, Microsoft isn't going to talk publicly about these methods either...

I've been spreading this around since it struck me this morning.

In an article posted today attempting to placate consumers Microsoft let slip this statement. "There was always going to be a day one update on the console" - Microsoft

It got me thinking about system updates. Remember when Sony yanked OtherOs support from PS3 via system updates required to play newer games? Yadda yadda I'm sure Sony had good reason etc, but the precedent stands.

I'm 100% certain now Microsoft will attempt this scenario sometime in the life of the xbone. They'll likely defend it with the cloud computing nonsense about games needing the internet to run properly.

Anyway just food for thought.

Yuuki:

I read a very convincing argument from a friend on Facebook on why he thinks this was all part of the plan:

Markus Palm:
Take a company like Microsoft, a multi-billion dollar corporation. It's in their utmost interest to be at the top when it comes to the console race to acquire revenue. They spent years researching the market and their consumer base. These corporations don't make "mistakes", especially not in this magnitude...

Sorry, that's not convincing at all. Big companies make huge mistakes all the time. And many of those mistakes are made because they are so big. Particularly in Microsoft's case, a sprawling, incoherent company comprised of many divisions with different agendas competing with one another (and an incompetent CEO).

These companies are run by multi-millionaires and billionaires surrounded by yes-men. People who have completely lost touch with the reality of the ordinary citizen's life. As for "market research" - if you've ever seen how that usually works, it's pretty much BS designed to get the answers the company wants.

In the wake of an era where we've seen the collapse of massive financial institutions, environmental disasters cause by huge companies' errors, and so forth, how can you take the "big corporations know exactly what they are doing" argument seriously? If Microsoft were so competent and all-knowing, then how did they let the entire mobile computing market be stolen from under them by a near-bankrupt underdog like Apple? How did they release Windows 8 to near-universal disdain?

The only plan this was part of, was part of executives' wet dream to have all consumers under their total control. It was never intended as an ironic marketing campaign. It's just that the executives thought that people wouldn't notice.

unless they also reverse the limited release (not releasing it worldwide) this means fuck all for me since i cant get the damned thing even if i want to, so fuck you microsoft!

mdqp:
\Yeah, but you don't have a single e-book format (not all e-books have DRM), and you can read e-books on all sorts of platforms, while Xbox One games are obviously only for the Xbox One, which means the digital market will almost assuredly be a monopoly (and they would have all had to stay under one big DRM umbrella), handled by Microsoft.

That's not what "monopoly" means. Yes, Xbone games will only work with the Xbone. But if the Xbone doesn't have a controlling position in the video game market, that isn't a monopoly.

On the other side of the coin, Kindle readers being available on multiple platforms does not mean that Amazon doesn't have a monopoly. Quite the contrary - if Amazon has a controlling position in eBooks, then it has a monopoly, even if its software is available on all platforms. In fact, having the software on all platforms could actually be considered even more monopolistic, if the main source of eBooks is Amazon, to the detriment of other suppliers.

Jimothy Sterling:
They were trying to take step five before they took steps one, two, three, and four. Consoles need to do a lot more to justify moving toward a near-all digital format. They don't get to suddenly move into it without providing a lot more of what PC provides customers first.

Jim, it's sad to see you perpetuating this misuse of the word "digital."

How are any of the games we have used in the last three decades been anything but "all-digital"? The very basis of computing and video games is digital. Those games you buy on a disc? Those are all-digital. There is no analog component. The only non-digital computer games were obscure experiments in the 50s and 60s.

It's incredibly bizarre that people somehow think that only downloaded games are "digital" but games on a disc aren't. Remember the whole deal about Compact Discs? It was revolutionary because it was digital audio (and still is), compared to magnetic tape and phonographs. We've been living in a digital world for a long time. It's strange that people somehow confuse distribution models with fundamental technologies. I thought you would have known better than to buy into this nonsense, Jim.

PatrickXD:
I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do,

Sadly, I'm not sure that this whole cloud computing thing was actually real (as in it was making a huge difference, of course it technically exists), otherwise they wouldn't of been able to 180 so quickly. They were making it out to be some huge game-changer that without games would not be the same, and then they get rid of it and not a word is mentioned?

Aardvaarkman:

Jimothy Sterling:
They were trying to take step five before they took steps one, two, three, and four. Consoles need to do a lot more to justify moving toward a near-all digital format. They don't get to suddenly move into it without providing a lot more of what PC provides customers first.

Jim, it's sad to see you perpetuating this misuse of the word "digital."

How are any of the games we have used in the last three decades been anything but "all-digital"? The very basis of computing and video games is digital. Those games you buy on a disc? Those are all-digital. There is no analog component. The only non-digital computer games were obscure experiments in the 50s and 60s.

It's incredibly bizarre that people somehow think that only downloaded games are "digital" but games on a disc aren't. Remember the whole deal about Compact Discs? It was revolutionary because it was digital audio (and still is), compared to magnetic tape and phonographs. We've been living in a digital world for a long time. It's strange that people somehow confuse distribution models with fundamental technologies. I thought you would have known better than to buy into this nonsense, Jim.

Welcome to the evolution of language.

A3sir:
Posted this in a thread earlier, holds relevance here too

I have been loyal to MS for my whole computing life, always had windows, always had Xbox, hell I even defended the Zune. I said no. It still comes with the kinect at $100 which I don't want, you can no longer share games online and the fact that they lied, "you cannot just flip a switch, it's core to the system" and then just flipped the switch is too suspicious for me to trust them. And the whole "Patch 1.1: Re-adds all DRM" is too much of a possibility. The PS4 is simply a more powerful system for ~3/4 of the price.

They just need a balance. They are going from one extreme to the other.

Sell a system with and without the kinect. People without it just can't use the kinect commands. Most cross platform games aren't going to have the kinect commands as they will have to write it in specifically for XB1 versions of the game, so even if they do make a kinect friendly version, you will still be able to play without using kinect commands. I also have no problem pressing a button as opposed to saying "XBOX ON" and random people wont be able to walk into the room and yell "throw grenade, quicksave" and run off.

Make the system HAVE to check in every 24 hours if you want to share your games. Sure, if you don't check in, lock the game from your family list, just don't stop them being played in offline mode on the console they are installed on. Or in other words, no check in to play offline on your console, check in for sharing and "family library" play. Yes, it is that simple.

As for trade ins, the selling disks, no selling digital is how it is now and there is no way around that unless they allow us to package up bought games and allow us to gift them to people. I could see this having the 30 day friends restriction ON DIGITAL COPIES ONLY and I would be fine with it. To stop people installing and then selling the game and still play offline, when installing the game via CD, don't install everything, leave one part that boots the game stay on the disk so to play disk based games, you either a- have to have an online connection, which will boot the game or b- insert the disk and the game will boot off the disk then run from the machine. Having a physical copy of my disk is a small price to pay to be able to play when I visit family without internet connections or when I go away.

These also perfectly represent my feelings.

image

image

I don't think region locking will come back though. Imagine blacking out entire countries via region locking post release, my god that would be a suicidal move.

The rest of the drm might come back but bringing back region lock would be (I can't believe I'm saying this) too stupid for Microsoft.

Aardvaarkman:
That's not what "monopoly" means. Yes, Xbone games will only work with the Xbone. But if the Xbone doesn't have a controlling position in the video game market, that isn't a monopoly.

On the other side of the coin, Kindle readers being available on multiple platforms does not mean that Amazon doesn't have a monopoly. Quite the contrary - if Amazon has a controlling position in eBooks, then it has a monopoly, even if its software is available on all platforms. In fact, having the software on all platforms could actually be considered even more monopolistic, if the main source of eBooks is Amazon, to the detriment of other suppliers.

Well, you know what I meant, though. Basically, all digital sales would have to pass through their systems, and no competition would be found there.

On the other hand, there are a LOT of different websites which sell e-books, and having a controlling position isn't a monopoly either, strictly speaking (Steam has a dominant role in the PC digital market, but it isn't a monopoly, and Amazon doesn't have a monopoly either). The different retailers competing with each other mean a lot, when it comes to actually get better deals for the consumers, because even those who hold the biggest share of the market will keep offering good prices, in order to keep their position. A real monopoly would probably see terrible prices attached with it.

weirdsoup:
Sorry to pop the jubilation bubble, but this is not a victory. This is Microsoft at their money grubbing, self-interest serving best.

I fully expect this whole ugly saga to raise it's head once enough people have bought Xbones because they think that MS has backed down. Then like some video game version of the Borg, these Xbones will awaken and enslave us. Or at least remove our ability to trade in games and turn off the Kinnect.

Quite possible. The reason that Sony got away with their massive security fail/dumping Linux is because it happened after they had their install base well established. A few Youtube reaction videos aside, most people didn't toss their PS3 in the garbage over that.

The same thing could happen here. Microsoft waits a couple years for their install base to be established THEN switches it back on knowing that most people aren't going to dump their XBone and their accumulated games.

This strikes me more as a tactical retreat than a victory.

People forgive Sony for the Hack. They forgive Sony for screwing linux. They forgive Sony for hounding modders. They forgive Sony for the "status symbol" comment. They forgive Sony for the update bricking peoples' consoles.

Microsoft pulls a reversal on their DRM. No one forgives them.

Ah, what a glorious day of fanboyism have we.

Captcha: Filthy dirty mess... Poignant.

PatrickXD:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.

First of all; with the many titles going multiplatform, there is no way that they would code it for a feature one console has and another one doesn't. Sure, maybe in the start to get things going when the ideas are still fresh (and they have a definite need to stand out), but once the generation starts running, say goodbye to those features. Second of all; online is already here to stay. Whether you have an always online or just a console with the capability to work online doesn't change this fact. Did the optional online stop developers from cramming multiplayer into pretty much everyone of their franchises? Did optional online stop games like the ones you named (Dark Souls and Demon Souls) stop from being made? Nope, it didn't. In other words; there would have been no added advantage to make the console always online for a multitude of factors, the biggest one being that online is already popular enough as it is.

As for the other features, sure, we could argue that the family system was a great one. However, and even though we shall never know the truth now, I honestly doubt that Microsoft would actually enable 9 people from your family to just borrow your shared games without any questions asked. Keep in mind that this is the same company that was giving the publishers the ability to lock out used games in an industry where everyone is crying foul of used games. You honestly think those publishers would suddenly be so altruistic ass to give away no less than 9 licenses (even if it is your family) of games they could have sold at full price to them? I highly doubt it. I would sooner suspect that that family sharing would have come with high restrictions, like putting a timer on the game (making it a glorified demo) or whatnot.

The problem with the Xbone was that for every step it went forward, it took 10 steps back. For everything we had to look forward to, there were a gazillion hoops we would have to jump through just to get there; that's not even to mention that they were deliberatly alienating half of their consumer base (keep in mind, while everyone would want to have good internet, it is not a given that everyone will) and going so faar as to have region locks that would potentially lock you out on a per country basis. That's NOT progress.

I am all for innovation and I do not mind a console with nothing but digital content. However, the way Microsoft was going was exactly as Jim said earlier; the "death of ownership." And that's not the way you want to introduce an all-digital landscape. Plus, with all the things they were limiting from the get-go, there is a good chance those limitations would negatively influence anythin positive they said they were adding to the console (refer to my point in regards to family sharing earlier). If they want to set up a good online space, first they will need to set up a consumer space that would emulate that of the current situation, which includes but is not limited to the ability to sell your own bloody property (and yes, I do think that Steam should do something like that as well before I consider it a valid alternative to gaming consoles).

In the end, people likely voted with their wallets. I am pretty sure that the reason for their backpeddaling was that they were taking hits in pre-orders. I for one, am rather glad it happened.

ImmortalDrifter:
People forgive Sony for the Hack. They forgive Sony for screwing linux. They forgive Sony for hounding modders. They forgive Sony for the "status symbol" comment. They forgive Sony for the update bricking peoples' consoles.

Microsoft pulls a reversal on their DRM. No one forgives them.

Ah, what a glorious day of fanboyism have we.

Captcha: Filthy dirty mess... Poignant.

While I'm by no means a "fanboy" the fact Microsoft decided to horrible horrible things to the economy with the DRM, killing used game sales, and the fact they've proven rather greedy in their refusal to lower digital game prices ever, well, these factors and more kinda played a part in the fact we don't trust them anymore. Further, if we didn't say anything, or did anything about it, then as far as we know, these heavy handed restrictions would have been PERMENANT. Across ALL Xbones. A massive middle finger to many countries, our own country, and the consumer.
And the whole thing about using a 360 if you have a crap connection as opposed to a xbone? The 360's support's going to dry up. That much is inevitable.
The military would get screwed, charities would have been screwed over, there's no telling how many people would be OUT OF A JOB in game retails over this.
Further, they yoinked a feature they could have contended with in the sharing/lending they were planning on doing.

A "bricking" can get repaired, a hack can be fixed (and no system is hackproof), modding/hacking isn't right (and microsoft goes after people for the same thing), these things are temporary.
The hacking was out of sony's hands.
Going after the modding/hacking is necessary for the sanctity of our gaming experiences, and Sony, on the same frikking day it seems, pulled the patch before it could do more damage. I didn't get patched despite auto update and I heard about the patch after the patch got released, and pulled.

Honestly, I don't know about this status symbol thing, and I don't know about the screwing of linux, though.

If you don't like the way I explained things, maybe Angry Joe might be more pallatable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

jackdaniel0001:
I am hugely disappointed at this reversal. MS should have stuck to their gun, waited to see the results. I don't agree with their DRM and game policy, but I can buy PS4 instead. There are plenty of people who do agree with MS policy, and I feel those people got robbed of an potentially interesting purchasing option.

We had 2 distinct consoles and 2 very different gaming models, now we have only one. I say to each his/her own, if people are willing to put up the DRM crap for a digital/cloud system, they should be able to have that option.

Before:
People who like cloud/digital medium - Xbox1
People who don't care - PS4

After
People who like cloud/digital medium - ???
Everyone else - PS4/Xbox1

This reversal isn't a victory, it's bad news.

Umm, no, actually it's not bad news. Both Xbox One and PS4 can still have cloud, and they already confirmed they will have digital content as well. A system being used offline doesn't prevent those digital features. It doesn't actually have to be one or the other.

Awesome.
Jim, I have been warned by the moderators because I post too briefly and not "discuss" the topic at hand, but screw it, all I want to say is: Man, you really make me laugh. You have a gift.

Jimothy Sterling:

Welcome to the evolution of language.

I think you mean "devolution."

"Digital" was a perfectly useful word until it started getting abused like this. It actually meant something. Can you please explain to me how games on disc are not "digital"? And what makes downloaded games entitled to a special "digital" class just because of how they are distributed?

Evolution of language is fine when it it helps us make more refined or meaningful distinctions, but this use just muddies the waters and doesn't help anybody make meaningful statements.

P.S: Misusing "digital" in this way just plays into the hands of the spin-doctors and rapacious publishing companies you dislike. It allows them to spin something old as new again. I thought you were a fan of plain and frank speech, not misleading double-speak. Call things what they are.

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