Jimquisition: Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

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LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

Over here in the United States most PC games are $10 cheaper than the console version and Steam almost always gives 10% off the title if you preorder as well as some preorder goodies. That is a savings for the average gamer of $15. In addition Steam will almost certainly have the earliest and best sales for any game. So buying games through Steam is often the cheapest possible method at release and later on.

The issue with returning digital games would be resolved if they supported trading and reselling games. If I buy a game that I think I want like Aliens Colonial Marines, and find out 10 min into playing that it's horrible. I should be able to resell it, but because resell isn't possible Steam is hammered with having to deal with returns. Same thing goes for Diablo 3, and Sim City. If you make a horrible game that sell 1 million copies on day 1 you're not going to make a single sale after that because of the flood of used copies, and that's how it should be.

Reselling has other benefits as well. These short easy mindless games will be hurt. If I can beat the game in 4 hours, and it has Zero replay value, then it's going to get resold pretty quick. Difficulty enhances replay ability if it's done right, and elongates play time without adding much more content. Once developers realize that making short games with no replay value isn't profitable, and never should have been, then they'll stop.

The Reason PC Software is exempt from the First Sale Doctrine Law is that back in the 90's it was obvious that allowing people to install MS Office on an offline machine didn't stop them from giving it to a friend or reselling it, but that the first person wasn't forced to uninstall in the process. The Right couldn't be extended to the 90's PC market because of the limitation of the system.

However, now we have DRM, and it is the very mechanism that should be allowing for used PC gaming, but it's not being used correctly.

On the other hand, Nintendo, with all their weirdness, honors the Right of First Sales for digital content, but with the catch of it travels with the system. If I sold my PS3 the digital content is staying attached to my login, but If I sold my Wii or Wii U the DLC goes with it.

To be honest I think buying a physical copy for PC and having to go through Steam is bullshit, PC was for a time so high on the "PC gaming master race" that it totally missed that personal ownership was being pulled away from under their feet

But that doesn't make it any better when a console tries to pull the same shit, and like Jim said, on a console the problem would be infinitely worse than on a PC

The situation sucks, but that doesn't mean spreading it around is great

Lord_Gremlin:

canadamus_prime:
Man, do I miss the days when I could just pick up and play on my consoles without all the bullshit.

I've just stopped buying games that don't allow for that.
I think one of the better pure console experiences nowadays is PS Vita with it's cartridges.

Effing ditto here. Just got my Vita recently and I was amazed at how easy things were to operate on it. I'm also playing Persona 4 Golden and having a hell of a time. I thought the touch screen would've been a hassle, but I've been liking it so much, it's left me with only one question...

How the hell do I clean it properly?

Andy of Comix Inc:
So, basically, "PC is an open platform that needs the added security. Consoles are closed platforms that do not deserve any more security."

I'm still mad that retail PC games just come with Steam codes now. I remember being able to install... hell. Even Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once, and now everything is bolted to a single account instead. Fair enough, I guess, there's a demand for Steampowered games, but... yeah. I'm still annoyed about that.

I guess people like me installing Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once are sort of what justified that. Again, the openness of the PC platform dictates that gates have to be closed somewhere. The fact that you can just literally copy the files of old PC games over with absolutely no hassle at all really does make DRM a necessity, and since it is all circumvented eventually anyway, it makes making that DRM appealing in some way to buy into even more of a necessity. Steam's greatest achievement is that it has made people WANT games to use Steam; it has made people WANT a DRM-flavoured copy of their games. Huh.

You do know that once you've installed a game on steam you can back it up to any number of sized files to fit across a number of discs?

Holythirteen:
Ah, now there's a good Jim, at least I have a handy reference for when this argument pops up again.

Man these consoles are becoming tricky things now. Console gamers are running out of excuses to not go PC.

You mean beisdes prohibitive cost?

Or the fact that some of us have an extensive console library already?

Or the unspoken guarantee that a game put in a console will work, every time?

Now granted with the next gen looking to make consoles into shitty PC's, instead of like Jim said and a staying slightly behind the curve, this argument may have some merit, but until that time where I no longer have to carry around a sticky note with my system specs written down when I go shopping, I'm staying console.

If consoles stay slightly behind the technology curve, then games are cheaper, developers don't have to sink millions into eye-fucking graphics, and consumers reap the rewards of convient, fun games. Nowadays, there's so much wasted money being thrown around, that publishers are terrified of the games not selling seven digits in a week.

LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

Their conversion rates are notoriously pretty shite, though they are set by the publishers from what I understand.

It's mostly the sales. On launch, they'll match retail prices if the game has a physical disk, but they frequently have sales even for new games that can go up to half off what you would get in a store.

I think Amazon offers slightly better deals every so often, but that's about it.

OT: I always chuckle a little whenever people say Steam has a monopoly over PC gaming. Sure, it's the big titan, and even when you buy off of Amazon or in retail there's a chance you'll have to add the game to a Steam account to play it, but you really don't have to actually buy off of Steam to play on PC, and as mentioned in the video GOG offers DRM-free titles with practically no restrictions.

Though I have to say, I think it's a little disingenuous to complain about the lack of backwards compatibility when the PS2 was the first console to ever actually really do backwards compatibility in the first place. I mean, sure, Sony and Microsoft were both relative newcomers to the gaming industry and all, but Sega and Nintendo never did backwards compatibility (unless you count the Gameboy Color, I suppose) and before that it was just the Atari 7800--at least so far as official backwards compatibility built in to the base product is concerned. There have been a lot more consoles than there have been ones that were backwards compatible.

Arcade Hero X:

LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

Here man I live in Ireland too and your a bit wide of the mark really. I have seen copies of terraria go for €25 quid in GS while it's standard price on steam is €9.99 also GS matches the price for most new releases.......except COD which is €10 cheaper than steam for some reason. GS Ireland really can't give a fuck about PC games and as an ex employee I can attest to that I mean there is literally a 1x1 foot spinning shelf thing in my local GS for PC games and most other stores the PC games are hidden away from view while the Steam vouchers are right in your face as you walk in.

I understand so just an update on a few titles. Don't forget I'm talking about pre-order or brand new releases.

Company of Heroes 2
Steam 49.99
GS 39.97

Rome Total War 2
Steam 54.99
GS 44.97

Skyrim Legendary Edition
Steam 39.99
GS 29.97

Bioshock Infinite
Steam 49.99
GS 34.97

Total savings from shopping at GS over Steam €45.08. That's a massive difference.

I swear as soon as I go and try to get more examples the bloody site goes down.

Edit to say I will update the post with more when GS website decides to co-operate.

This video should be titled: "The differences between a proprietary system and a non-proprietary system"
Consoles are proprietary; you play only what the console maker allows, by their limitations. The honey of course, is that the console provides a streamlined experience with little muss and fuss.

And the Xbone wanted to do away with that. Oh sure, it claimed to offer that sort of experience, but with all the added DRM, herding and Market Fencing schemes, there was no way it could actually back that claim up.

And I just know some idiot is going to stumble into this thread raving about "B-b-b-b-BUT the Xbone offered us GAME SHARING! It was TEH FUTURE and you monsters KILLED IT with your misunderstanding! 90% game discounts! That's what you tossed away! Shame on you!"

While repeatedly failing to realize the numerous major assumptions one would have to make to realize that idealized scenario, and ignoring all drawbacks that come with that sort of system.

It's that sort of person that necessitated this video, Jim.

GAunderrated:

Irridium:

canadamus_prime:
Man, do I miss the days when I could just pick up and play on my consoles without all the bullshit.

Yeah, that's why I've moved back to playing on the PC. At least I can get the benefits of PC gaming along with the bullshit, where now with consoles it's the bullshit of PC gaming without any of the benefits.

How I play PS2 games: Put disk in tray, play.

How I play PS3/360 games: Update console, put disk in tray, update game, play.

How I play PC games: Install/download it, update it, faff about to get it to work (not always needed, though), play.

Small nit pick on the PC side, when you install/download it does the update for you. You don't download a game than it updates, it does the update while downloading/installing.

Only on Steam. I primarily buy physical copies or from GoG because lol downloading modern games on my 80kb/s internet connection lol.

Though in GoG's case I don't need to update, which is nice.

People still order on day 1 and pre-order?!?!

I stopped doing that when Diablo 3, Mass Errect 3 and a few others failed to live up to expectations while simultaneously costing the earth and requiring stupid restrictions...oh just remembered Battlefield 3, stupid web browser launcher tied to origins. So yeah if you want to buy 1st day steam is probably not the best, though a lot of the time you can pre-load so it's ready bang on the day without doing anything.

Andy of Comix Inc:
I'm still mad that retail PC games just come with Steam codes now. I remember being able to install... hell. Even Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once, and now everything is bolted to a single account instead.

The solution to that is to have one account and share the password with your friends. If you hesitate to do so, (presumably because you're worried of what your friends will do to the reputation of that account), then it proves that Steam adds enough value to justify its DRM.

Since Steam allows you to install the game any number of times on any number of computers (with a few notable exeptions that, in my experience, seem to always be a developer choice; Borderlands' DLC is one of these, I think) it works even BETTER than the days when Fallout 3 was around and games could only EVER be installed on 3-4 PCs.

LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

That's one shortcoming of Steam that only affects people overseas. Valve is bad at currency conversions. TB used to bring it up a lot more when he was living in England (and still does when talking about sales). All too often they will either have prices that don't line up very well by what currency you're using, or they don't bother to convert at all and you get silly things like 30 dollars = 30 pounds = 30 euros.

LaochEire:
Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

The answer is one word: Currency.

That's all there is to it; You don't transact in USD so you get (mildly) screwed.

I really don't understand what makes Valve price games so weirdly sometimes and some of the stuff I've seen just makes it even weirder... Just watch Total Biscuit's "Salebox" videos during a major sale event (like the upcoming summer sale) and you'll see what I mean.
-Sometimes the prices are all the same ($4.99, €4.99, 4.99) so Europe/UK get shafted.
-Sometimes the UK gets a better deal ($19.99, €19.99, 11.99).
-And sometimes the prices are pretty balanced ($14.99, €12.49, 7.99)

the antithesis:
Not to mention that you can put together a gaming PC for the price of a console these days.

So consoles don't even have the lower price point to make them attractive.

Thank you for linking me this! I've favorited one of this guy's videos for the future. >:3

Machine Man 1992:

Holythirteen:
Ah, now there's a good Jim, at least I have a handy reference for when this argument pops up again.

Man these consoles are becoming tricky things now. Console gamers are running out of excuses to not go PC.

You mean beisdes prohibitive cost?

Or the fact that some of us have an extensive console library already?

Or the unspoken guarantee that a game put in a console will work, every time?

Now granted with the next gen looking to make consoles into shitty PC's, instead of like Jim said and a staying slightly behind the curve, this argument may have some merit, but until that time where I no longer have to carry around a sticky note with my system specs written down when I go shopping, I'm staying console.

If consoles stay slightly behind the technology curve, then games are cheaper, developers don't have to sink millions into eye-fucking graphics, and consumers reap the rewards of convient, fun games. Nowadays, there's so much wasted money being thrown around, that publishers are terrified of the games not selling seven digits in a week.

Most of your arguments can be trumped by experience. Once you get good with a PC, you can make the thing dance to your whims. Also, if you spend any kind of decent money on a system, rest assured, it'll at least play everything, not on high, but it'll play everything. You can build a PC like that for about 500 bucks and save yourself some money by using an HDMI cable to use the tv you've already got as a monitor.

Also, something interesting is that having a new console generation with more powerful graphics hardware will actually lower the cost of making games. See, it's actually very very difficult to get the kind of performance out of outdated hardware that we tend to get. It's amazing how good Farcry 3 looks on the Xbox 360, given the specs of the 360. In order to do that takes a mountain of work and still have the engine deliver top tier graphical performance.

Consoles still have draconian DRM. Or has everybody forgotten MS and Sony bricking modded systems? No sign that has gone or is going anywhere on consoles. On the PC the worst they can do without a court is cancel your account. Which if you've pirated things shouldnt be a big issue to you....

So on Counter-strike Global Offensive for PC a really kickass new expansion came out called operation payback. Big map pack and match system. The Price was $6, but hey guess what on day one steam had a sale. On day fucking one it was $2.99. So I bought it for me and my mate. Gueeees what? It notified me "hey since you already bought this you can buy another copy for your friends for $.50". 50 fucking cents.

So tell me what are the Call of duty 4 map packs priced now on my PS3 and xbox? $15? $20? For 4 fucking maps.

Oh and also you can invite friends to play Operation payback. They don't even have to own it.

OH GOD and guess why its called operation payback? BECAUSE THE MONEY GOES TO THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED ON THE FUCKING MAPS!

Most of what Jim is saying is absolutely true, but Steam still has the power to pull a game from the market whenever it pleases.

For example, when Activision lost the rights to the James Bond 007 franchise, it pulled every Bond game from Steam, without warning and without refunds. I'm glad I chose to buy 007: Legends for my PS3, because I can obviously still play it, and it even still has servers running for online multiplayer.

Which brings me to the other thing that consoles have that PC never will. Split-Screen multiplayer was the feature that originally got me into gaming, with great titles like TimeSplitters 2 that were clearly optimised for it on the PS2.

Admittedly the increased workload that came with the PS3 generation of consoles began to see a reduction in this feature, but when it was there it was easily the highlight of the game. I can only imagine what how PS4 and Xbox One will further neglect this vital side of console gaming...

But remember that in order to have any kind of multiplayer on a PC, you need a second PC (and if Steam is involved, a second copy of the game), while on a console you only need a second controller - a much cheaper and more convenient investment.

PC and console have both had problems and advantages but recently consoles have been trying to be more like computers and so far have only taken the bad of PC gaming and almost none of the good. I don't want i shit computer under my TV I want a gaming console that lets me just throw in a game and play no hassle, no passcodes or DRM with owned, burrowed and rented games. Consoles stop trying to be a PC I already have one not to mention my TV can do some of that stuff too.

LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

I agree, I don't understand the pricing either and it's often a significant amount of time before the price becomes reasonable. Although I never buy new games from there and almost always buy from sales.

If PC was your only gaming platform, then I couldn't see buying from Steam being the best choice if you like playing games upon release.

Although a lot of that is a problem outside of the US. Steam often tends to convert directly from dollars into euro's and pounds, whereas retail games don't.

I like PC gaming because:

- It's all digital, I don't need boxes over boxes of games (exception of Collector's Edition).

- MODS are awesome!

- Mouse & Keyboard precision and keybindings makes it best for my tastes when it comes to gaming.

- Backwards compatibility is the key here. The fact that I can play games like System Shock 2 on Windows 7 without any problems is amazing in my eyes. I really hope more old games will get a "compatibility" port on new OS's. It's impossible for me to play Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines on Win7 which saddens me greatly.

These are a few things why I'm sticking to PC gaming and don't even want to hear about getting a console. You can keep your exclusives.

Thank you for that long extended blowjob Jim.

The PC master race is pleased with your continued service in our war against the peasant rebellion.

SNCommand:
To be honest I think buying a physical copy for PC and having to go through Steam is bullshit, PC was for a time so high on the "PC gaming master race" that it totally missed that personal ownership was being pulled away from under their feet

Or rather, they signed an EULA that claimed to take away personal ownership from them, and then they all started singing "Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum", and proceeding to own the games that they have bought anyways.

Just as it was said in the video, by it's very nature of the platform's openness, a PC gamer will always have a lot more opportunity to continuing to own their games through fan-made cracks and patches, and emulators.

Andy of Comix Inc:
The fact that you can just literally copy the files of old PC games over with absolutely no hassle at all really does make DRM a necessity

That reminds me, actually; with The Witcher 2 you wouldn't even need to know how to do that. The game comes with a serial code that you can use to get a free DD copy of the game from GOG. Since the disc version is also DRM-free, it can be resold... so it's entirely possible to download your free GOG copy and then sell your disc.

Would that qualify as piracy? It's certainly a dick move.

I feel safe buying from steam because of thepiratebay and gamecopyworld. Because I know that if some dumbass corporate policy tried to screw me out of the things I bought I could give them the finger and get back MY property from these alternative locations.

Also mods. I have no idea how anyone can play a vanilla Bethesda RPG. They release great game engines with crappy games tacked on. Then the community fixes basic things like interface, balance and even textures. Since morrowind the best time to buy a bethesda game has consistently been about 18 months after release. You get the "game of the year" edition with all of the dlc AND the community has released an overhaul that seamlessly integrates the DLC content with the rest of the game, fixes bugs, makes it look prettier, and makes the game more fun.

The way I see it, Jim is going off on a tangent with this one.

We want to know why DRM is accepted on PCs more than consoles. Arguing that you have multiple sites to download games, at cheaper prices, than console equivalents doesn't justify DRM's existence on PC games. Isn't the lack of choice regarding where you buy your games a completely separate topic from the DRM case?

Not only that, Jim fails to address the point that many people still wish to own physical copies of their games. And if you are one of those people, Jim's separate topic he seems to discuss here goes out the window.

I would also like to point out that, contrary to what he seems to suggest in his video, I find physical copies of many games, brand new, on sites like Amazon, much cheaper than what I do on Steam. Which is why I've never bought a game on Steam.

Digital download games aren't always cheaper.

Consoles have DRM. In fact, they ARE DRM.

More to the point, though, I'd say the main reason Steam gets a "free pass" is because PC gamers sold their rights away ages ago. And no, Steam didn't get a free pass. People went into it kicking and screaming, and if they had kicked a little harder, there might not be a platform-wide DRM policy that's not only excused but fellated.

I know, I know, GOG, Amazon, etc, but many titles require Steamworks to operate, so I think that falls flat. I mean, I like GOG, but it shouldn't be a method to excuse the fact that we have a monopolistic platform on PC as well. Of course, we have primarily Gabe NEwell's word on that, so maybe he's PC gaming's Saddam Hussein, hiding in a hole while the coalition wrecks Baghdad and his radio guy announces that all is well.

I DON'T KNOW.

I think a lot of these excuses are just that. Excuses.

However, I also feel the "trade-off" argument is...Pretty valid. I mean, that was the give and take. We buy consoles for simplicity. We get fewer features as a result. That's a fair trade, and why I'm shifting away from consoles. Because if I have to patch games and install things and sign up for things...I might as well go to PC. Hell, I might as well go to Steam, where at least most titles do that smoothly.

Also, Jim touches upon one question we should always, always ask:

What's in it for me?

And, also, not exactly what Jim said, but PC gaming is evolving. Steam's lending or rental or whatever you want to call it is a step forward, where locking you in is a step back.

LaochEire:

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

Quoted because I hope the next bit answers your question

Dragonbums:

I honestly guess it's just the region you are in. Which really sucks.
I literally got Skyrim last year for $30.00 on Steam during their sales as opposed to $60.00 at retail.

Except a lot of the time, you can look and find the same prices on Amazon, either digital or e-tail. I honestly think people are too lazy to look for a deal these days, see a slashed price somewhere, and go AWESOME!

I buy from Steam sales, for the record, so I'm not saying they're bad. What I am saying is that it takes a few mouse clicks to compare other sources for the best price: a far cry from the days where you had to drive across town or maybe multiple towns. I don't get why someone would be so lazy.

Well, there's one exception: I understand the desire for a unified library. That doesn't mean that the sale prices are actually as noteworthy as phrased by so many.

I mean, I buy all my ebooks from the Kindle store. It's nice to be able to go to one site to redownload my books if I need to. I even enjoy the fact that they have routine deals. Are they the best prices? Not always, and it's best not to pretend such.

I don't know if, for example, you could have found Skyrim specifically for 30 dollars. I do know that I've found a lot of stuff on other sites at about the same price. Sometimes less.

Legion:

LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

I agree, I don't understand the pricing either and it's often a significant amount of time before the price becomes reasonable. Although I never buy new games from there and almost always buy from sales.

If PC was your only gaming platform, then I couldn't see buying from Steam being the best choice if you like playing games upon release.

Although a lot of that is a problem outside of the US. Steam often tends to convert directly from dollars into euro's and pounds, whereas retail games don't.

I have never bought a game brand new from Steam. I always buy from Amazon or GS due to lower price. Also, games like Football Manager, Rome Total War 2 and Company of Heroes 2 will be mandatory when you buy retail copy so you get bonus of having Steam version as well.

I actually game mostly on PS3 now. The PSN sotre is far worse than anything Steam does since PSN doesn't account for income levels and standard of living across EU. Some games are 69.99. A friend of mine lives in Denmark and he says he pays that and more for games. In Ireland and UK we would never pay that for console game.

Moral of the story. Digital Distribution is not working for me on any platform and I'll continue to buy physical copy as it's far cheaper...And he was I think digital distribution would usher in a new age of cheaper games. Wasn't it suppose to do away with all that manufacturing, packaging and shipping costs adding to the price we pay for games?

LaochEire:
I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by €20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

It's the same here in Australia; on release games on Steam are usually priced to match our RRP (but in USD, which is bullshit now that we're no longer at parity), which fails to take into account that retailers here usually price games at $2-$10 below RRP (sometimes more, eg when Dishonored came out, it was $80 on Steam, but JB HiFi and EB Games (our two biggest games sellers) had it at $69 and $68 respectively. Fortunately places like Green Man Gaming, Get Games, Gamersgate, etc usually have the games at US prices.

Andy of Comix Inc:

mike1921:

Andy of Comix Inc:
I'm still mad that retail PC games just come with Steam codes now. I remember being able to install... hell. Even Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once, and now everything is bolted to a single account instead. Fair enough, I guess, there's a demand for Steampowered games, but... yeah. I'm still annoyed about that.

Are you sur you can't just use your steam account elsewhere? I know it's added contrivance but you can still install from disk too with steam so you don't need to download it, so I'm pretty sure you can have it on someone else's computer.

Oh. Actually, I'm thinking about more sharing between multiple people, not just installing on multiple computers.

Install it on multiple computers, let them all use the same account in offline-mode. TADAA! Everyone can play the game!
Obviously only works with games that don't need Steam to be online, but every Singleplayer and game that has local Coop/MP will work just fine and dandy.

canadamus_prime:
Man, do I miss the days when I could just pick up and play on my consoles without all the bullshit.

Same here, firmware updates are the reason my ps3 is for the large part gathering dust and only being used as a occasional Netflix box for the living room, but even doing that is more of a pain than it should be.

PS3: "Firmware update"
Me: "eh fine"
PS3: "Game patch."
Me: "oh come on"
*An hour later*
Me: "Sod it. I'll watch something on netflix instead"
PS3: "Netflix update."
Me: "FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"

most times when a game apears out on all platfoms i will go stright to the PC version... why you ask. Mod's the ability to mess around with the game more so than a console is just the added fun of them custome built maps the ability to not have to play the same 4-5 maps over and over till a "patch" now payd DLC updated them to something better i could boot something like CS:S and have a map playlist so big i wouldnt even play the same map 2s in a year of playing i boot up something like COD or BF and il be back on that map with in an hour at best

we might have lost the ability to trade games in and away but we got MUCH more back something consols cant do and probly will never beable to Mod Edit Fix and Keep.

thats my view on this that said i will probly pick up a PS4 for the exclusives not sure if il buy on Day 1 or wait half a year for the problems to be fixed (mostly) we will see

Watching Jimqusition episodes make me even more puzzled but people who will eat up the bullshit like this is nothing. I'm STILL thinking of that GameStop employee I talked to who KNEW all the downsides to the Xbox One but honestly didn't care because he wanted the Halo TV series and other exclusives. Like he was willingly going to be Microsoft's BITCH. And when I brought up Diablo 3 and SimCity, he dismissed it as "oh games never work on the initial release date." YOU REALIZE THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP YOU WIN ANY SALES YOU KNOW?! Not to mention, when I mentioned how I missed the days when you could just pop in a game and play it, he mentioned, in an equally dismissive voice, that that's not how it is anymore.

Well, he's right, it's not that way anymore... But unlike him, I'm NOT going to stand for it. It shouldn't have to be this way, God-dammit!

...That being said, Microsoft doing a 180 has made me consider getting an Xbox One... Eventually...

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