Remember Me Could Have Been So Much More

Remember Me Could Have Been So Much More

Yahtzee looks at the good parts of Remember Me and tell us how they could have been better.

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Once again, Yahtzee creates a better game then we got. I'm wondering if there were plans to do more in-depth on messing with memories in both gameplay and story, but it was abandoned for standard brawling action.

We all know that the possibilites are endless when it comes to Mindcraft...ing

Reading the article I had an interesting thought: What happens if you modify someone's memories such that they remember being dead?

shirkbot:
Reading the article I had an interesting thought: What happens if you modify someone's memories such that they remember being dead?

Kinda like the movie, "Flatliners". 1st time scriptwriter, I heard, made $400K for that one.

shirkbot:
Reading the article I had an interesting thought: What happens if you modify someone's memories such that they remember being dead?

It basically results in an error state, and the game mentions that "you can't remember that you're dead".

These are basically the four main end states that can be achieved, along with some non-spoilery hypthetical examples of what that would mean: 1) The memory is altered and results in the same end state as reality (ie- someone that was alive is still alive, or someone dead is still dead, etc), 2) revealing some kind of a pleasant or cathartic variant (ie- allowing for a tearful goodbye that they never had or giving them a new resolve they never had before), 3) the character having the memory dies, 4) the memory is altered such that it will produce a significant personality/goal change in the person being altered (making them betray someone, come around your cause, or healing/causing emotional distress).

You're always shooting for end state #4, although it can be fun (and net you some achievements) to try to find the other ones.

fatb0y:
Kinda like the movie, "Flatliners". 1st time scriptwriter, I heard, made $400K for that one.

In Flatliners though, they actually DO die, and then remember their time on the other side. I think shirkbot was more referring to the person having their memories being altered to the point that they remember their death as an event, not anything that came after. For example, having an accident in the memory sequence that results in the electrocution of the person you're manipulating, which would be completely impossible since they also have memories of still being alive after the death event.

I'm actually still impressed that a game by a new studio, that's a new IP, that does a lot of experimental things, turned out GOOD. Maybe not GOTY, but 90% of the time a new studio's first efforts don't even get compared to major cult hits like Mirror's Edge.

I think (hope) Remember Me gets an audience, because many games that have rough edges finesse them out in the sequels (anyone remember how lame much of the original Assassin's Creed was?).

Though, it's Capcom... it'll either have faith in it (Okami got a sequel and SO many ports), or Capcom will, ironically, not remember it at all (like P.N. 03, Godhand, Power Stone, or Breath of Fire).

You could probably introduce the mind mechanic into the combat system, as an alternate way of defeating enemies non-lethally.

The game pauses when in the "mind-altering" state, and you have a series of powers related to emotions to use on enemies. Things like "Fear", "Anxiety" or "Depression" that all have a cool-down timer on them. Each enemy also has a psyche-meter and psyche-power, the former acting as their "health" from mind-altering attacks and the latter their "attack power" against hostile forces.

The player uses these emotion-attacks as ways of reducing their psyche-meter, and when depleted the enemy will be defeated in their mind that they can't participate in combat. But there is a chance that they might lash back with their own psyche-power, damaging you while in this paused state and hurting your health. Each enemy would have weaknesses and strengths against some emotions. Teenage punks wanting to rob you would be more susceptible to fear-based emotion-attacks, but the same attack won't work against war-scarred soldiers.

Once the powers enter a cool-down state, they will only become useful again when you resume combat. From here you can fight the enemies as normal, or dodge their attacks to wait for your emotion-attacks to recharge for another blast.

The best way to make variety in games is to limit the number of mechanics you actually include, and instead create variety in the ways you apply them. Portal had one notable mechanic, that being the portal gun itself, but used it for scaling high ledges, redirecting projectiles, building momentum, bypassing grates, dropping cubes on turrets... A single mechanic (combined with standard minor mechanics such as walk, jump, and carry) found quite a wide variety of uses, even in a fairly short game.

Another example is Super Mario Galaxy, which has a far wider variety of mechanics available, but all working toward the same goal: movement. Mario jumps, spins, runs, swims, stomps, wall jumps, ducks, long jumps... but at it's core, those all serve only two purposes, to attack enemies, and to get from point A to point B. Variety in the game doesn't come from his moveset, but from the way he uses it. Sometimes spinning hits an enemy, sometimes it hits a projectile and sends it toward an enemy, sometimes it makes star bits appear in surrounding grass, sometimes it activates a sling star. Totally different outcomes, but essentially all the same move.

This isn't to say that all games necessarily need to do this. Variety can also come from level design, or even randomization. but when you try to add variety by dividing your game into totally unrelated mechanics that don't complement each other and only serve to completely change the flow of the game, all you're doing is making the game as a whole less fluid (Metroid: Other M's final boss).

P.S. Thanks

Yahtzee:

At this point, there are many different possibilities. We could, for example, run straight up to the guard and allow them to shoot or beat us to death. Then we cut back to reality, and assuming we aren't in plain sight by the time the guard recovers from the memory implant, they will remember having killed us, and will go back to being passive and unaware.

Heh, only a gamer could come up with such a game-y response! Reminds me of the bandits in Skyrim who think it was "just a cat" that made all that noise ... and left that arrow in their head.

I've often wondered what the guards did after they killed me in a game. Did they just go back to their patrol, or maybe did they inform someone that there was an attempted break-in and maybe call in someone to dispose of the body.

But, regardless of how silly this is, it does sound like fun.

Trishbot:
Snip

I'm right with you on that it is a new IP by a new studio and it is decent. It even shows some good production values.
Lets hope their next game turns out more refined and focused.

Yahtzees idea is good tough it would probably turn out a little bit overpowered.
I think a lot of their problems comes from their general game structure. Exploration, combat and the memory remix are all strictly separated from each other. A more connected approach may have resulted in what Yahtzees suggests.
I think that Uncharted 2 would be a good example of this. There you have also these "structures" (exploration, combat and puzzle). However since the level design is more open and they implemented the stealth mechanics the exploration plays into the shoot outs and puzzles and therefore feels way more connected to each other.

Clovus:

Yahtzee:

At this point, there are many different possibilities. We could, for example, run straight up to the guard and allow them to shoot or beat us to death. Then we cut back to reality, and assuming we aren't in plain sight by the time the guard recovers from the memory implant, they will remember having killed us, and will go back to being passive and unaware.

Heh, only a gamer could come up with such a game-y response! Reminds me of the bandits in Skyrim who think it was "just a cat" that made all that noise ... and left that arrow in their head.

I've often wondered what the guards did after they killed me in a game. Did they just go back to their patrol, or maybe did they inform someone that there was an attempted break-in and maybe call in someone to dispose of the body.

But, regardless of how silly this is, it does sound like fun.

I recently platinum'd Assassins' Creed III, and if you do get "desynchronized", the guards just immediately walk off! It does seem slightly off-putting in a not-exactly-explainable way.

Clovus:

Yahtzee:

At this point, there are many different possibilities. We could, for example, run straight up to the guard and allow them to shoot or beat us to death. Then we cut back to reality, and assuming we aren't in plain sight by the time the guard recovers from the memory implant, they will remember having killed us, and will go back to being passive and unaware.

Heh, only a gamer could come up with such a game-y response! Reminds me of the bandits in Skyrim who think it was "just a cat" that made all that noise ... and left that arrow in their head.

I've often wondered what the guards did after they killed me in a game. Did they just go back to their patrol, or maybe did they inform someone that there was an attempted break-in and maybe call in someone to dispose of the body.

But, regardless of how silly this is, it does sound like fun.

That is why this idea is so novel because it finally adds a believable fix for the cat problem. Stealth games need a mechanic to reset the guards in order to be playable, but none have really found a way to reconcile that mechanic with logic. Often the guards will just forget about you or will assume that it was a rat who stabbed them in the back. With memory manipulation, you can reconcile the inane behavior.

Not to mention all the other neat things you can do with memory/personally manipulation. Maybe you hack the a guard to make them be fearful of water so they won't patrol by the sewer, or hack a guard to think that an electric fence is turned off and is there for safe to lean on. Just so many possibilities it makes the mind boggle. :)

Thunderous Cacophony:
Once again, Yahtzee creates a better game then we got. I'm wondering if there were plans to do more in-depth on messing with memories in both gameplay and story, but it was abandoned for standard brawling action.

I keep thinking that the game turned out the way it did because the devs lost time fighting for their idea and hunting for a publisher. Past that I'm almost certain that someone at Capcom made demands about which mechanics to implement, turning what probably was a Cyberpunk adventure game in third person into the noncommittal slog we ended up with.

I always rewatch the latest ZP video before reading XP so I can hear Yahtzee's voice in these articles. he described a really clever game, but I can sort of see why the Remember Me crew did what they did, because those memory-rewriting sequences sound like a bitch to design.

Wow, had they implemented your ideas it would've been ten times better!
Maybe make this game yourself instead?

Or send them in for a potential part 2, so the developer can then butcher the fuck out of them, as they will do with any and all good ideas nowadays... At least you'd get a fat paycheck!

Ah man, he took my idea!

My plan was a cybernetic implant that lets you "see" the future through billions of probability calculation per second. In gameplay terms, you can rewind segments of time an avoid mistakes.

Damn it why can't the people who make games ask folks like Yahtzee for ideas because what he's thought of sounds like an amazzzzzing addition to the game.

Kenjitsuka:
Wow, had they implemented your ideas it would've been ten times better!
Maybe make this game yourself instead?

Or send them in for a potential part 2, so the developer can then butcher the fuck out of them, as they will do with any and all good ideas nowadays... At least you'd get a fat paycheck!

Hmmm, well as good as these ideas are as a concept, there is always the question as to whether the development would be viable. Thinking up something that seems like it would be cool is much easier than making it happen... which is how I think a lot of more naïve developers get in trouble, making promises that they intend to keep but wind up just not being able to. In a lot of cases games that promise all these incredible things and then don't deliver them are the result of big companies deceiving you intentionally (such as with Colonial Marines) but in others it's a matter of reality setting in on developers who opened their mouths based on what they want to do or think they can do rather than what they can actually do.

At any rate, I don't want to be TOO snarky, but occasionally when Yahtzee judges games like this and makes suggestions I start to wonder what ever happened to "Fun Space Game: The Game" and if he ever finished it since that seemed to have an interesting basic concept that I suspected was going to be difficult to actually implement the way I remember it being described (similar to his ideas for "Remember Me", which is what made me think of it).

Machine Man 1992:
Ah man, he took my idea!

My plan was a cybernetic implant that lets you "see" the future through billions of probability calculation per second. In gameplay terms, you can rewind segments of time an avoid mistakes.

Maybe I miss the intentional joke, but that sounds pretty much like doing "Prince Of Persia" but justifying the rewind mechanics with technology instead of temporal magic.

Also to be honest, if they ever wanted to do a video game starring some obscure comic characters like "Sage" or "The Midnighter" (Wildstorm, recently brought into regular DC apparently) with computer brains who can pretty much play out any fight they could potentially get into a billion times before it even starts and predict everything their opponent does before they do it... a similar mechanic to this would make sense as well.

What are you talking about, "bat an eyelid"? I was in shock and awe! That sounds like a horrible thing to do.
Also, fun fact: thinking that you're dead is also known as Cotard's syndrome.

Godhand was a spectacular game, and I can't help but think that if Clover (Now Platinum) had implemented that custom-combo system into Bayonetta, that game would have hit the highest level of amazing ever achieved by man.

And I agree, Remember Me coulda been a contenda. I remember being pumped for it, but the combat wasn't as deep as I was led to believe. I might still get it used.

DVS BSTrD:
We all know that the possibilites are endless when it comes to Mindcraft...ing

Nothing like a good old fashioned Mindjack

the thing yatzee complains about here i feel is just the production time, given unlimited time there would be more exploration of all the features, but games are made on a schedule and to keep a decent quality you have to
'kill your darlings' as they say to make sure the game is working to a decent level on release

there are some cool ideas, for sure but i have to wonder about this one..

"at the start of the game she staggers out of oppressive future prison where she underwent mistreatment to the point that she can barely stand, and you can't just walk that off."

I have to say, I disagree.. as someone who has been poisoned ( holly berries look better than they taste. ), sedated ( surgery ), suffocated by deep muscle oxygen debt 'collapsed due to overexertion' and put into thermal shock ( in a cold room then i went outside in the 36* direct sun, for MASSIV da.. er.. instant heatstroke ) and you absolutely can and do walk these things off because if you didn't they'd never go away and you'd just die.

if anyone's been drunk off their face and slowly recovered, coming out of shock is that but 1000x faster and with all the general wobbliness everything hurts, burns and stings ( you're slowly recovering your nervous system... it hurts. trust me your soul is on fire. ) you can't see properly and you stagger around or collapse and twitch on the floor for 20-30 mins.
seems quick? not when you're suffering is isn't!

personally i'm completely satisfied with the portrayal of 'generically mind%*"$*"' at the beginning of the game, but obviously I can't comment on what she's supposed to be recovering from if it was drug induced, a nice long vomit might have been in order as that shit will make you queasy too, if they really wanted to play it up she should have collapsed for a while in a corner somewhere and woken up later but that might have seemed overly melodramatic for an intro..

"Thirdly, we could simply kill the guard inside their own memories. This leaves them in a temporary state of existential uncertainty, creating the same effect as a stun attack."

THIS I like, allot. and it has so many variants depending what the guard fears or cares about..
if you were being less evil, you could make a memory of them tripping and falling down a flight of stairs and smashing their face on the pavement or something and have them stunned and then panicked like waking up from a particularly violent daydream.

perhaps you make the ceiling crack, and bits of plaster fall on them and they run away from their posts so you can run past.

You could make a giant spider appear and crawl into an air vent and watch as a guard stares at nothing, agog or starts shooting the wall and all their friends run over and shake him to try and snap him out of it.. as you creep past.
and the guards get creeped out and commit suicide or all begin to go insane as all the other guards start experiencing these unexplainable hallucinations.

Mentally trained toughguy? no problem..
you could erect a 'mental projection' of the area that simply excludes you from it and jaunt on past like they were blind.

ect ect..

did i mention i love this idea?
it's good. go and make thief 3072 and put that in it kay.

Y'know, I loved Remember Me. I consider it one of those odd little gems that you trip over in the Steam Store. Not perfect, but uniquely cut to catch the light in a way you've never quite seen before.

And I will remember Remember Me for a very long time.

That being said, I would love to have had more fun with the memory-altering thing. That was crazy fun.

I wholeheartedly agree to these ideas and suggestions. Using the provided special powers to actually evade fighting and stay undiscovered would have been sweet, but they also would have made this a whole different game.

While I did enjoy playing through the game, it is definitely not one of those titles one keeps coming back to. The combos reminded me of Panza kick boxing, another splendid title that allowed for pretty much that customization mechanic, what, twenty years ago? The fighting in Remember Me is clearly inspired by how other titles handle it, and it's alright - it isn't really bad, but it's also nothing to write home about.

The most innovation and work clearly went into the memory rewriting scenes, and they are fun, entertaining and quite special. However, it's also rather obvious that the whole rest of the game is pretty much written and constructed around them. I'd like to learn how many man-hours went into creating the memory-alt-hacks, as I am certain the effort was considerable, if not ludicrous.

Therumancer:

Machine Man 1992:
Ah man, he took my idea!

My plan was a cybernetic implant that lets you "see" the future through billions of probability calculation per second. In gameplay terms, you can rewind segments of time an avoid mistakes.

Maybe I miss the intentional joke, but that sounds pretty much like doing "Prince Of Persia" but justifying the rewind mechanics with technology instead of temporal magic.

Also to be honest, if they ever wanted to do a video game starring some obscure comic characters like "Sage" or "The Midnighter" (Wildstorm, recently brought into regular DC apparently) with computer brains who can pretty much play out any fight they could potentially get into a billion times before it even starts and predict everything their opponent does before they do it... a similar mechanic to this would make sense as well.

I realized the goof, almost as soon as I hit the post button.

Niccolo:
Y'know, I loved Remember Me. I consider it one of those odd little gems that you trip over in the Steam Store. Not perfect, but uniquely cut to catch the light in a way you've never quite seen before.

And I will remember Remember Me for a very long time.

That being said, I would love to have had more fun with the memory-altering thing. That was crazy fun.

Pretty much the same here. Remember Me was definitely not perfect, but i enjoyed the combat, the scenery was gorgeous, and the soundtrack was also very pleasing to me. Well worth the 30 dollars i spent on the title.

If it ever gets made, all of the memory remixing scenarios Ben mentioned could very well make their way into a sequel.

The way you were going on about how much you liked the memory alteration mechanic and subtly changing things in the past to affect the present, Yahtzee, I'd highly recommend you check out Ghost Trick.

Not all games get it right the first time. Sometimes the first game is merely a stepping stone for the sequel.

Niccolo:
Y'know, I loved Remember Me. I consider it one of those odd little gems that you trip over in the Steam Store. Not perfect, but uniquely cut to catch the light in a way you've never quite seen before.

And I will remember Remember Me for a very long time.

That being said, I would love to have had more fun with the memory-altering thing. That was crazy fun.

same here. sure its far from perfect but a fun game. i played it twice and i still enjoy it a lot.
i was also thinking of some stealth elements and altering someones memories to either help you or deceive them. but well, maybe part 2 (if we get a second game) might change these (if they listen to customers) and we will have a really fun game.

I just find it sad that Remember Me gets about a score of 70% in all reviews, while you know the next CoD modern warfare of blops will get 99% by everybody, while doing jack shit different than the last instalment...

I certainly hope Capcom allows a sequel to be made with more time, and resources. It doesn't have to be a huge amount more, but time to really make a more fleshed out game.

The game was a refreshing change of pace on many levels, and it deserves a sequel.

It was definitely a good first game from a developer that came out of nowhere.

Being an errorist sounds like interesting game play. Stealing memories, and changing people's outlooks to prevent corruption, and more.

The game laid a fantastic foundation.

So, basically, having the power to rewrite a person's memory and subconscious, which in turn crosses many moral and ethical boundaries but also opens up new gameplay opportunities while also raising questions as to whether or not the actions the player avatar takes are morally correct in itself, painting his/her's actions as morally grey as the very people he is trying to bring down.

What an interesting and dynamic idea to add to the gameplay and story of a game. Let's sit back and watch the Triple A devs subsequently never think of anything that deep ever again and instead focus on giving CoD Ghosts more guns.

... Sorry for being pessimistic, but we've been through, what, five years of this nonsense? I think I have the right to not assume things will change now.

Stomping goombas took away my sense of morality and ethics long ago. I'm a real monster, I know.

The memory altering mechanic is pretty neat, and really deserves its own game entirely.

But it's also quite complicated, and "complicated" is a dirty word in an industry that relies on pandering to the lowest common denominator. Don't expect another attempt to be made again.

 

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