Zero Punctuation: E3 2013

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Evonisia:

Arnoxthe1:
And no mention of Project Spark... Why not? Everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

It's actually the exclusive I'm looking forward to most if I get an Xbox One.

I have a theory that most people just don't have a thing for building stuff and seeing it in action. Too bad really.

Arnoxthe1:

Evonisia:

Arnoxthe1:
And no mention of Project Spark... Why not? Everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

It's actually the exclusive I'm looking forward to most if I get an Xbox One.

I have a theory that most people just don't have a thing for building stuff and seeing it in action. Too bad really.

Yeah, they must have a thing for building stuff then posting it on YouTube... *cough* Minecraft.

Evonisia:

Yeah, they must have a thing for building stuff then posting it on YouTube... *cough* Minecraft.

Hey, I WANT TO BELIEVE, OK? Just sayian, if Project Spark didn't attract that much interest then what is going on?

Arnoxthe1:

Evonisia:

Yeah, they must have a thing for building stuff then posting it on YouTube... *cough* Minecraft.

Hey, I WANT TO BELIEVE, OK? Just sayian, if Project Spark didn't attract that much interest then what is going on?

Not sure to be honest, but me thinks that Project Spark's going to under perform because of the Xbox One, Xbox One Minecraft and Minecraft PC :(

Arnoxthe1:

Evonisia:

Yeah, they must have a thing for building stuff then posting it on YouTube... *cough* Minecraft.

Hey, I WANT TO BELIEVE, OK? Just sayian, if Project Spark didn't attract that much interest then what is going on?

Two things:

Xbox One

Windows 8

Killed my interest with a vengeance.

Ed130:

Two things:

Xbox One

Windows 8

Killed my interest with a vengeance.

Perhaps. But barring that, you can't deny it looked pretty good.

Arnoxthe1:

Ed130:

Two things:

Xbox One

Windows 8

Killed my interest with a vengeance.

Perhaps. But barring that, you can't deny it looked pretty good.

Not enough for me to buy an overpriced multimedia unit and install a tablet OS respectively.

Ed130:

Not enough for me to buy an overpriced multimedia unit and install a tablet OS respectively.

Who said you had to get Windows 8 to use all its features?

Supernova1138:

hornedcow:

BigTuk:
Seriously though, when did Backward's compatibility become a dirty word in consoles. I mean that was the main selling point of the PS2 (arguably one of the best selling consoles in recent history). Yeah, yeah I know the excuses for lack of backward compatibility are basically summed up as:

"We want you to buy the same games again"

From what I understand, it's not on the PS4 because including an extra Cell processor on the console would really jack up the cost. No idea why they couldn't have used an emulator or why it's not on the X-Box, but there you go.

OT: Great episode. I still feel like Yahtzee's being mildly hyperbolic about the next-gen's prospects, and I'm not sure why he's suddenly got a narc on for console exclusives, but his disclaimer at the end was still hilarious.

The problem with emulating the XBox 360 and PS3 is that it requires way too much computing power. Even the most powerful desktop PC doesn't have the power necessary to emulate the current gen consoles, the PS4 and Xbone certainly don't have the necessary processing power to do software emulation of the PS3 or 360. The only way to do backwards compatibility would be with a hardware solution, basically stick a 360 or PS3 into the new consoles to make the old games work, and that would jack up the cost significantly. This is simply what happens when the console makers decide they want to change CPU architecture every god damn generation.

Ni Hyperbole, you see there was literally a time when telling people they needed bigger hardware to play this game was an actual sales pitch. The trend peaked around the time of Doom3.

Now of course I will give cartridge based systems a bit of a pass on this because well, it's quite difficult to maintain the same level of hardware architecture, but now a days games are all software. Sony will get a pass because of that Cell thing. They tried something new in PS3 and it didn't work so they're backtracking. Still doesn't explain the lack of PS2 Backwards compatibility though.

Arnoxthe1:

Who said you had to get Windows 8 to use all its features?

At this point there is no word on a Windows 7/Vista version, only Windows 8 is confirmed.

I think Evil Within looks good, despite the weird floor thing. Not enough gameplay was shown to really get a handle on what it'll look like. The chainsaw thing seemed like it was there to impress those looking for blood and guts so there's always the possibility that it'll be better.

I'm surprised at the lack of Murdered: Soul Suspect, though.

... Is it just me or has half of what Yahtzee says go straight over our heads?

When I hear a line like "the elitist self preserved powers that be of the gaming industry of highly funded and endorsed gaming industries with juxtaposition that contemplates the existence of a lawyer on speed".

It just kind of... flies right over my head. I can't keep up.

Is Yahtzee talking faster or am I getting slower?

But the jokes are at a slow enough pace that I can laugh. So I shouldn't complain.

Supernova1138:

hornedcow:

BigTuk:
Seriously though, when did Backward's compatibility become a dirty word in consoles. I mean that was the main selling point of the PS2 (arguably one of the best selling consoles in recent history). Yeah, yeah I know the excuses for lack of backward compatibility are basically summed up as:

"We want you to buy the same games again"

From what I understand, it's not on the PS4 because including an extra Cell processor on the console would really jack up the cost. No idea why they couldn't have used an emulator or why it's not on the X-Box, but there you go.

OT: Great episode. I still feel like Yahtzee's being mildly hyperbolic about the next-gen's prospects, and I'm not sure why he's suddenly got a narc on for console exclusives, but his disclaimer at the end was still hilarious.

The problem with emulating the XBox 360 and PS3 is that it requires way too much computing power. Even the most powerful desktop PC doesn't have the power necessary to emulate the current gen consoles, the PS4 and Xbone certainly don't have the necessary processing power to do software emulation of the PS3 or 360. The only way to do backwards compatibility would be with a hardware solution, basically stick a 360 or PS3 into the new consoles to make the old games work, and that would jack up the cost significantly. This is simply what happens when the console makers decide they want to change CPU architecture every god damn generation.

Actually, if you were running the modern i7s at about 4.5Ghz along with a modern GCard you would probably have enough computing power to emulate the system in question. The issue is that the PS2 emulators are still shit and both the 360 and PS3 are at least an order of magnitude more complex to emulate.

Falsename:
... Is it just me or has half of what Yahtzee says go straight over our heads?

When I hear a line like "the elitist self preserved powers that be of the gaming industry of highly funded and endorsed gaming industries with juxtaposition that contemplates the existence of a lawyer on speed".

It just kind of... flies right over my head. I can't keep up.

Is Yahtzee talking faster or am I getting slower?

But the jokes are at a slow enough pace that I can laugh. So I shouldn't complain.

He's actually been really slow this year, slower than 2007 and his first two videos actually.

If you think he's going too fast now, you should watch some 2008-2010 videos.

WaitWHAT:

Supernova1138:

The problem with emulating the XBox 360 and PS3 is that it requires way too much computing power. Even the most powerful desktop PC doesn't have the power necessary to emulate the current gen consoles, the PS4 and Xbone certainly don't have the necessary processing power to do software emulation of the PS3 or 360. The only way to do backwards compatibility would be with a hardware solution, basically stick a 360 or PS3 into the new consoles to make the old games work, and that would jack up the cost significantly. This is simply what happens when the console makers decide they want to change CPU architecture every god damn generation.

Absolute nonsense.

You can just about run it on hardware from 2006 onwards, with a few graphical tweaks. Heck, any mid-range computer made in the last 3 years or so should manage it fine. The next gen consoles (with an 8-core jaguar APU, 8GB of RAM and a modified HD 7850) should have no trouble whatsoever.

Just to add to this guy's point, here's a few games I tend to run quite often:

- Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge
- Giants: Citizen Kabuto
- Sacrifice
- Total Annihilation
- Rise of Legends

And they run perfectly fine - with a ten month old gaming machine that's a low - mid level machine that can run most modern games at a steady clip. Even for some that do not, nine times out of ten there are community patches and fixes around to make them work.

So yes. Nonsense.

Just wait until he reviews the next Thief. There will be fireworks.

TheNarrator:

Ulquiorra4sama:

TheNarrator:
The rant against exclusivity made me happy. It's obvious anti-competitive and anti-consumer behaviour, and not enough people give a fuck.

How is it anti-competitive? Doesn't it encourage console manufacturers to make systems game devs actually want to make games for, and doesn't it imply that having good devs make good games would make more people buy your console?

It's one of the reasons i bought a PS3 over the 360; because the PS3 had exclusives i wanted and the 360 didn't and everything else was multiplat or uninteresting.

The heart and soul of capitalism, the reason it's the best economical system we humans have been able to come up with, is competition. However, you can compete in (roughly) two ways: by improving your own product (better quality or lower price), or by spending time and energy to hinder the competition. Obviously, only the first kind of competition actually benefits the consumer and society in general.

For an AAA developer, there's virtually no technical or financial reason why a game shouldn't be made cross-platform, especially in a generation that uses exactly the same CPU architecture. The cost of porting to all the consoles and PC is much lower than the benefits of reaching a much larger audience. So a game developer will only agree to make something exclusive to a platform when there's considerable compensation.

Exclusivity is a form of anti-competitive behaviour, because it's a case of the console manufacturer spending money to ensure that the competition does not get something desirable. There is no reason why console exclusives can't be made cross-platform, they're only not cross-platform because MS and Sony actually spend money to prevent these games from coming to other systems. This money is not spent on improving their own product but on making the competitor's product less desirable; that's pretty much the definition of anti-competitive behaviour.

While I can see your point, would you extend that opinion to games made by devs the console owner owns? I just can't get my head around making games for the competition. When it's third party stuff, I completely agree though.

Doom972:

The Enquirer:

Vergilthenew:
Or Deadpool?

Didn't that game just come out yesterday? Just saying...

Which makes it more surprising that none of the reviewers I count on haven't reviewed it yet. Most reviewers get early copies (Not sure about Yahtzee though).

True, but he has stated numerous times that comics aren't his favorite thing in the world so why would he review it first thing then when there are other titles out there that have been out for longer? Granted this video isn't exactly about one game in particular but the point still stands. Even if he did get an early copy it probably won't be played for quite some time. I would be interested in his opinion on the game, but I feel like he might say deadpool annoyed him. Don't quote me on that unless it turns out I'm right of course :p

Vergilthenew:

The Enquirer:

Vergilthenew:
Or Deadpool?

Didn't that game just come out yesterday? Just saying...

Yeah, but still.

Yeah, but still what? It came out the day before this video and Yahtzee is particularly going to jump at the chance to play a game about a comic book character.

The Enquirer:

Doom972:

The Enquirer:

Didn't that game just come out yesterday? Just saying...

Which makes it more surprising that none of the reviewers I count on haven't reviewed it yet. Most reviewers get early copies (Not sure about Yahtzee though).

True, but he has stated numerous times that comics aren't his favorite thing in the world so why would he review it first thing then when there are other titles out there that have been out for longer? Granted this video isn't exactly about one game in particular but the point still stands. Even if he did get an early copy it probably won't be played for quite some time. I would be interested in his opinion on the game, but I feel like he might say deadpool annoyed him. Don't quote me on that unless it turns out I'm right of course :p

Vergilthenew:

The Enquirer:

Didn't that game just come out yesterday? Just saying...

Yeah, but still.

Yeah, but still what? It came out the day before this video and Yahtzee is particularly going to jump at the chance to play a game about a comic book character.

But I still wanted him to do it, even though he probably couldn't.

Actually, the Wii Fit Trainer was put in there because absolutely no one asked for it. She's pretty much a big middle finger to everyone sending in requests for characters in Smash Bros.

Vergilthenew:

The Enquirer:

Doom972:

Which makes it more surprising that none of the reviewers I count on haven't reviewed it yet. Most reviewers get early copies (Not sure about Yahtzee though).

True, but he has stated numerous times that comics aren't his favorite thing in the world so why would he review it first thing then when there are other titles out there that have been out for longer? Granted this video isn't exactly about one game in particular but the point still stands. Even if he did get an early copy it probably won't be played for quite some time. I would be interested in his opinion on the game, but I feel like he might say deadpool annoyed him. Don't quote me on that unless it turns out I'm right of course :p

Vergilthenew:

We figured that out based on the first comment you made which you received a warning for. I was expecting there to be more of a reason behind it.

Yeah, but still.

Yeah, but still what? It came out the day before this video and Yahtzee is particularly going to jump at the chance to play a game about a comic book character.

But I still wanted him to do it, even though he probably couldn't.

The Enquirer:

Vergilthenew:

The Enquirer:

True, but he has stated numerous times that comics aren't his favorite thing in the world so why would he review it first thing then when there are other titles out there that have been out for longer? Granted this video isn't exactly about one game in particular but the point still stands. Even if he did get an early copy it probably won't be played for quite some time. I would be interested in his opinion on the game, but I feel like he might say deadpool annoyed him. Don't quote me on that unless it turns out I'm right of course :p

Yeah, but still what? It came out the day before this video and Yahtzee is particularly going to jump at the chance to play a game about a comic book character.

But I still wanted him to do it, even though he probably couldn't.

Did you forget to write something? There's nothing more here than what's already been written.

-Dragmire-:

TheNarrator:
-snip

While I can see your point, would you extend that opinion to games made by devs the console owner owns? I just can't get my head around making games for the competition. When it's third party stuff, I completely agree though.

It's a tough question, I've already been thinking about it and I don't really have a solid answer.

I think the the reason this question is so tough is that software products aren't really products in the traditional sense: you don't really own them the way you own, say, the plumbing in your house. If you buy a house, and you want to modify the plumbing, you can, because it's your property. Even if you don't know the first thing about it, no one has the right to stop you. This isn't the case with software: you only get a binary executable. Because you don't get the source code, modifying the program becomes virtually impossible. Furthermore, the license agreement often explicitly forbids reverse-engineering or modifying the program, so even if you would be intelligent, patient, and insane enough to modify the binary, you wouldn't be allowed to.

I think it's perfectly logical that a first party developer does not spend time and money on helping the competition by porting it to other consoles or PC, but because you don't really own the product, you also can't do it yourself, or have it done by a third party. In a better world you would actually have access to the source code, and you would get the right to modify it, and you would be able to share your modifications with anyone who bought a license to the software (if necessary only via the developer of the original software, for security reasons). And then none of this would be a problem, because you wouldn't be utterly dependent on the original developer for ports. Of course, it's not going to happen because software developers want you to be utterly dependent on them; in the case of games, most of them wouldn't want people to basically create and share content for free that they could have charged you for.

I have to admit that I'm not sure about how to go about this in the current system. I'm leaning towards saying that first party exclusives are also wrong. It's a bit like a printer manufacturer building his printers so that only cartridges of his own company fit into them, but the other way around: in case of software, it's the "cartridge" that's designed not to fit in other "printers" (consoles). I always found that one corporation manufacturing both the printers and the ink isn't a good situation, it would be better for the consumer if the manufacturer of the printers had nothing to do with ink production, and let free competition of third parties provide the ink.

So I guess that's my answer: ideally, console manufacturers wouldn't be involved in video game development; they should provide a platform where free competition takes care of game production. I am aware though that no one can reasonably expect this of a corporation. In fact, even though I may have sounded a bit judgemental in my previous post, I don't even blame Sony or Microsoft for commissioning third party exclusives: if they want to stand a chance in the console market they have to do that to be competitive. In the end, their behaviour is just a symptom of a much larger disease, and that disease is that our laws against anticompetitive behaviour are pathetically weak and people don't care about business ethics, even if they themselves get burned in the long run.

I try to do my part by refusing to sway for exclusives: I pick a gaming platform based on its technical specifications and its potential for internal competition between distribution channels, game developers etc (so basically only PC is a reasonable option for me, in fact my computer runs Linux only now). Also, I complain on the internet. Which I'm sure will change the world for better forever :P

Falsename:
... Is it just me or has half of what Yahtzee says go straight over our heads?

When I hear a line like "the elitist self preserved powers that be of the gaming industry of highly funded and endorsed gaming industries with juxtaposition that contemplates the existence of a lawyer on speed".

It just kind of... flies right over my head. I can't keep up.

Is Yahtzee talking faster or am I getting slower?

But the jokes are at a slow enough pace that I can laugh. So I shouldn't complain.

He is talking slower AND running out of breath more. Back in the day you had to REALLY put in the effort to make out what he said.

DataSnake:

Ulquiorra4sama:
How is it anti-competitive? Doesn't it encourage console manufacturers to make systems game devs actually want to make games for, and doesn't it imply that having good devs make good games would make more people buy your console?

Because if your competitor makes a better console but you have more cash, you can just pay developers to ignore the other system, which goes against the "better products thrive" principle at the heart of free-market capitalism.

The hypocrisy in that statement is that it tends to be in favor of their system of choice.

"I like Halo, but I'm not going to buy an Xbox 360 for one game! Bungie should go multiplatform so I can play shooters on my Wii!"

"I like Zelda, but I don't want to waste my money on two games! All Nintendo IP's shouldn't be exclusive, they should go multiplatform so I can play all of their IP's on my PS3."

That is literally the entire reasoning behind this argument.
Any sugar coating like "they would be so much better off financially (especially in Nintendo's case)" is a load of bullshit to cover up what is basically the pinnacle of self entitlement.

Sir Shockwave:

WaitWHAT:

Supernova1138:

The problem with emulating the XBox 360 and PS3 is that it requires way too much computing power. Even the most powerful desktop PC doesn't have the power necessary to emulate the current gen consoles, the PS4 and Xbone certainly don't have the necessary processing power to do software emulation of the PS3 or 360. The only way to do backwards compatibility would be with a hardware solution, basically stick a 360 or PS3 into the new consoles to make the old games work, and that would jack up the cost significantly. This is simply what happens when the console makers decide they want to change CPU architecture every god damn generation.

Absolute nonsense.

You can just about run it on hardware from 2006 onwards, with a few graphical tweaks. Heck, any mid-range computer made in the last 3 years or so should manage it fine. The next gen consoles (with an 8-core jaguar APU, 8GB of RAM and a modified HD 7850) should have no trouble whatsoever.

Just to add to this guy's point, here's a few games I tend to run quite often:

- Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge
- Giants: Citizen Kabuto
- Sacrifice
- Total Annihilation
- Rise of Legends

And they run perfectly fine - with a ten month old gaming machine that's a low - mid level machine that can run most modern games at a steady clip. Even for some that do not, nine times out of ten there are community patches and fixes around to make them work.

So yes. Nonsense.

No, not nonsense. Those games work on your computer because you're running versions of those games made to run on a PC. Your computer could not run a 360/PS3 version of these games (even assuming you had a perfect emulator) because the process of emulation requires an order of magnitude more processing power than the system you are trying to emulate.

You cannot expect a computer that has enough processing power to run a game to be able to run that same game while (on a software level) pretending to be another machine entirely.

Sir Shockwave:

WaitWHAT:

Supernova1138:

The problem with emulating the XBox 360 and PS3 is that it requires way too much computing power. Even the most powerful desktop PC doesn't have the power necessary to emulate the current gen consoles, the PS4 and Xbone certainly don't have the necessary processing power to do software emulation of the PS3 or 360. The only way to do backwards compatibility would be with a hardware solution, basically stick a 360 or PS3 into the new consoles to make the old games work, and that would jack up the cost significantly. This is simply what happens when the console makers decide they want to change CPU architecture every god damn generation.

Absolute nonsense.

You can just about run it on hardware from 2006 onwards, with a few graphical tweaks. Heck, any mid-range computer made in the last 3 years or so should manage it fine. The next gen consoles (with an 8-core jaguar APU, 8GB of RAM and a modified HD 7850) should have no trouble whatsoever.

Just to add to this guy's point, here's a few games I tend to run quite often:

- Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge
- Giants: Citizen Kabuto
- Sacrifice
- Total Annihilation
- Rise of Legends

And they run perfectly fine - with a ten month old gaming machine that's a low - mid level machine that can run most modern games at a steady clip. Even for some that do not, nine times out of ten there are community patches and fixes around to make them work.

So yes. Nonsense.

The part where he said modern computers can't run them is nonsesne. The part where he said they are difficult to emulate isn't.

Speaking of which saying that consoles are erasing their history when all of them provide games from older consoles on their online stores is pretty flimsy.

The Metal Gear trailer thing felt like complaining for the sake of complaining. They didn't fastforward because that stuff was BORING, the did it because it wasn't trailer-worthy. It's like a TF2 match recap video--lots of cool things happening, and everything else is cut. They don't cut it because those parts of the match were boring, they cut it to compress the most interesting stuff into as short a video as possible.

Anyone know where I can make a GIF of Microsoft shivving itself? Thinking of changing my avatar.

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