Baldur's Gate Art Day

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Oh well, I can add the humor myself. Otherwise this is a great picture guys, Erin is especially well drown

What exactly do you mean by depth in RPGs. Like complexity of gameplay?

But I like Fallout despite its subpar action and sometimes cosmetic and forced depth...

Lol, Sharon got her arm lopped off. That'll teach the bitch to go messing with a Death Knight. :P

The reason you can't poke at it, is because it's obvious what kind of game and what kind of story Bioware wanted to make. You can't fault them for making something out of passion, that shows their love for what they did. It would be petty.

Maybe BG is lousy to make fun of because it doesn't pretend to be anything else than what it is. It lacks hype, pretentiousness, 4th wall-breaking jokes and irony. It simply is. Just like a chair, not much joke material in a chair.

I think Torment or Fallout would make for better jokes. There's plenty to make fun of there.

On a positive note, the rise of kickstarter and the long-overdue acceptance of non-photo realistic 3D graphics means we might just see a resurgence in RPGs that sacrifice impressive presentation for actual depth. I'm not talking about Bethesda's efforts, which are more or less sub-par action games which try to compensate for their lack of substance with sheer size; A pool that's 8 miles wide and 3 inches deep is a shitty pool. Instead, I'm hoping to see games which take which take the spirit and mechanics of games like Baldur's Gate and its ilk and run with them

Hear, hear!

Aw, no Scary Penny? Would have thought she'd work well there.

RJ 17:
Lol, Sharon got her arm lopped off.

I think that may be saying something[1].

[1] If the characters are not complete satirical representations of their RL counterparts...

Wall o' text puts down TES!

Cool picture.

Planescape told a better story (one that still stands as the best narrative in gaming)

Still obvious that Grey has never played Suikoden II or III.

Fappy:
Wall o' text puts down TES!

Cool picture.

^^This

I still think the biggest problem TES faces is that it's kind of in a genre of it's own. It's less concerned with telling you a story and more intended to let you tell your own story. It wants you to be less concerned about stats and leveling and more with just doing what feels natural. It want's you to use Swords because you want to, not because you want to level your One Handed. It wants you complete that quest because your character would, not because you want the loot/xp.

It wants the experience to be important. Not the XP.

Is the Combat "meh"? Yeah.

Are the animations wooden? Of course.

Is the story sloppily told and disjointed? Yes.

Are the characters flat and generally unsympathetic? Definitely.

The thing is though, there are plenty of other games that do those things better. TES is not trying to be those things.

What it does well, though (provide a wide open world to do whatever you want in), it does better than anyone else out there.

Yeah the more i think about it the harder it is to find something to poke fun at Baldurs Gate, however I do think there are somethings that could be made fun of.

Personally the Baldurs gate 2 is my favorite game of all time so I sometimes hold Baldurs Gate 1 on too high a pedestal. But reading that text reminded me the game actually wasn't as great.

Eric the Orange:
What exactly do you mean by depth in RPGs. Like complexity of gameplay?

Complexity != Depth. Sorry, computer science student. :P

I'd watch Extra Credit's episode on it, but simply, it means that a game has more 'meat'. Complex characters and story. Interesting mechanics. Minecraft is engaging and deep as a black-hole, but is (relatively) simple.

Renegade-pizza:

Eric the Orange:
What exactly do you mean by depth in RPGs. Like complexity of gameplay?

Complexity != Depth. Sorry, computer science student. :P

I'd watch Extra Credit's episode on it, but simply, it means that a game has more 'meat'. Complex characters and story. Interesting mechanics. Minecraft is engaging and deep as a black-hole, but is (relatively) simple.

Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to believe that which you stated as untrue.

Hell, if that were the case then Deadpool would be one of the deepest games I've ever played, because it was practically tripping over different controls and keybindings for everything. There were two different keys for two different types of teleport.

Anyway, I guess I don't hold such a sterling impression of Baldur's Gate because I didn't grow up with it (or at least play it a decade ago), and by the time I finally tried getting into it it seemed so dated, slow, convoluted, and horrible to control that I couldn't even get out of the first room without being pissed off at the UI and the randomness of the AD&D combat rules. Same goes for Baldur's Gate 2. Spoiled or not by more modern games, they just haven't aged well at all.

On a positive note, the rise of kickstarter and the long-overdue acceptance of non-photo realistic 3D graphics means we might just see a resurgence in RPGs that sacrifice impressive presentation for actual depth.

When even a lot of retro titles required me to upgrade my graphics card, I wouldn't count on it.

Eric the Orange:
What exactly do you mean by depth in RPGs. Like complexity of gameplay?

Dude/Dudette, you're about to be bombarded with Extra Credits 'Depth vs Complexity' vid, BRACE, BRACE, BRACE!

Hey, it's charles.. i remember him.

whatever happened to that lovable fluff ball of fun?

Krantos:

The thing is though, there are plenty of other games that do those things better. TES is not trying to be those things.

What it does well, though (provide a wide open world to do whatever you want in), it does better than anyone else out there.

Well said.

Bethesda's one of "gamers" favourite punching bags though, and acknowledging such a position -- that a game can appeal to certain people/tastes but not all -- seems beyond understanding.

I actually never played any Bioware games until Mass Effect, which I'm rather fond of. I got all the classic D&D PC games (and The Temple of Elemental Evil for some reason) on Gamersgate, and I couldn't really get into BG. I got the mod that ports BG's story int BG2's engie and that's much more fun, but I didn't get much further than I had with my first character. I also started an Icewind Dale 2 MP game with a couple friends but they sort of lost interest (but more likely just motivation to play games that weren't made by Paradox). I think I actually had more fun with IWD2, though that could just be due to better early game balance and my familiarity with 3e - I have no fucking idea what is up with 2e.

Anyway, Eryn Do'Urden made me laugh as much as the other comics, so congratulations, you actually did your job!

RJ 17:
Lol, Sharon got her arm lopped off. That'll teach the bitch to go messing with a Death Knight. :P

Not to mention the lower half of her body. I'm sure that's a joyous smile on Stout's face, whether it's down to the game or Sharon's demise I'm not sure.

I doubt that you can be two oceans away from someone. If there are two oceans between you on one side, isn't there just one on the other side? (Unless Carter has friends on Antarctica.)

Grey Carter:
On a positive note, the rise of kickstarter and the long-overdue acceptance of non-photo realistic 3D graphics means we might just see a resurgence in RPGs that sacrifice impressive presentation for actual depth.

Torchlight 1 and 2? Action RPGs, true, but it was nice to see someone say "screw the super HD graphics, there are other things we can give them". It's exactly the mindset people need to use if we really want to see "video games as art". Not all paintings are about trying to recreate reality to exact detail.

Grey Carter:
I mean, yeah, its systems are obscure at best and weirdly counter-intuitive at worst, it doesn't have a plot as much as a series of glaring fantasy cliches arranged in a vaguely arc-like pattern and the interface, though improved from the decade-and-a-bit-old original, is still the very definition of clunky. But the game just doesn't bear mockery. It's too huge, too grand in scope, and perhaps too precious to an awkward, English teenager who needed an escape from the pressures of growing up. It wasn't technically the best game of what many think is the golden age of Western RPGs. Daggerfall was bigger, Planescape told a better story (one that still stands as the best narrative in gaming), Fallout was funnier, Arcanum boasted a more interesting setting, Diablo was more fun and Icewind Dale had better multiplayer.

I don't think you did a very good job at selling it. Of course, old PC RPGS in general seem impenetrable and cumbersome, while I wouldn't think twice about trying out older SNES RPGs. This might be because of different upbringings, but I never played anything but platformers, fighters and Zelda on the SNES when I was younger.

The drawing is very nice.

Fappy:
Wall o' text puts down TES!

Cool picture.

That was hilarious! Thanks! But what does it have to do with TES?

San Martin:

Fappy:
Wall o' text puts down TES!

Cool picture.

That was hilarious! Thanks! But what does it have to do with TES?

It was basically my way of saying, "BOOOOOO!"

Although lots of my roleplaying friends aren't oceans away, they are cities away which is bad enough. On the plus side we've found we can play pretty much any game that doesn't require miniatures (i.e anything that isn't DnD) perfectly well over something like mumble, using one of the many joint dice roller websites out there. Had a very enjoyable Mage game and the use of mumble and steam chat let me do things you can't do in a real life pnp, the best example being playing a scene out loud with one player, who was being brain washed, with the false information he would be passing onto the group whilst simultaneously typing out the real events over steam to each other.

Bostur:
Maybe BG is lousy to make fun of because it doesn't pretend to be anything else than what it is. It lacks hype, pretentiousness, 4th wall-breaking jokes and irony. It simply is. Just like a chair, not much joke material in a chair.

The day shall come when Tiax will point and click!

Malk_Content:
Although lots of my roleplaying friends aren't oceans away, they are cities away which is bad enough. On the plus side we've found we can play pretty much any game that doesn't require miniatures (i.e anything that isn't DnD) perfectly well over something like mumble, using one of the many joint dice roller websites out there. Had a very enjoyable Mage game and the use of mumble and steam chat let me do things you can't do in a real life pnp, the best example being playing a scene out loud with one player, who was being brain washed, with the false information he would be passing onto the group whilst simultaneously typing out the real events over steam to each other.

Look into Roll20. Online cloudbased program, thats free to use and makes DnD perfectly possible!

Those Drizzt references... all of those Drizzt references...
I love you.

In light of the current news concerning BGEE, I'm surprised to see a comic pop up about it that doesn't mention what's going on.

If you weren't aware, it's no longer being sold from Beamdog, with Atari or somebody high up on the food chain totally blocking Beamdog from continuing to work on patching it, enhancing the sequel, etc. Which, to a fan like me, is absolutely heartbreaking.

I'm not talking about Bethesda's efforts, which are more or less sub-par action games which try to compensate for their lack of substance with sheer size; A pool that's 8 miles wide and 3 inches deep is a shitty pool.

The bitterness of that statement made me have to lie down. It's like you've never even heard of Morrowind...

I would argue that Bethesda's offerings have much deeper stories than people give them credit for. For one thing, the main story is always fairly good, even if it is kinda short. For another, we all have at least one favorite sidequest that sticks out in our minds long after beating it, sometimes many, and how could that happen if they were so shallow?

I also consider it to make sense that the stories aren't particularly deep, you're just some random guy/girl randomly bumping into people and deciding to help them, it's no wonder that people don't feel the need to tell their entire life stories to a complete stranger nor that you would go out of your way to find out everything about every character involved. At the same time Bethesda games give you the opportunity create your own stories outside of the quests and even somewhat in them, as well as do wacky things like placing a bunch of mines in a row, shooting one, and watching the fireworks, or Fus Ro Dahing random people off ledges.

cidbahamut:

Bostur:
Maybe BG is lousy to make fun of because it doesn't pretend to be anything else than what it is. It lacks hype, pretentiousness, 4th wall-breaking jokes and irony. It simply is. Just like a chair, not much joke material in a chair.

The day shall come when Tiax will point and click!

Well maybe there was a few ;-) And Rydell and Carter did find the most obvious thing to make fun of after all.

Nikolaz72:

Malk_Content:
Although lots of my roleplaying friends aren't oceans away, they are cities away which is bad enough. On the plus side we've found we can play pretty much any game that doesn't require miniatures (i.e anything that isn't DnD) perfectly well over something like mumble, using one of the many joint dice roller websites out there. Had a very enjoyable Mage game and the use of mumble and steam chat let me do things you can't do in a real life pnp, the best example being playing a scene out loud with one player, who was being brain washed, with the false information he would be passing onto the group whilst simultaneously typing out the real events over steam to each other.

Look into Roll20. Online cloudbased program, thats free to use and makes DnD perfectly possible!

Oh I have done. I don't really like DnD (I describe it as the worst rpg I'm willing to play) but I've contemplated using it
for something like Savage Worlds in which minis aren't needed for most fights, but they can add alot for big almost set piecey bits.

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