The Big Picture: With Great Power

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So, where to begin. First all, something needs to be made crystal clear. I don't give a fuck about marvel or DC comic books. The only thing you mentioned that if it was successful and spawned something bigger I could see as a "victory" for my personal taste is pacific rim. And sorry, but I really don't see it doing very well with the US audience for a number of reasons despite the big push. Unlike you, though, I'm still thankful for the movie and will enjoy it a great deal. It's existence, however, owes more to its director, who frankly has always had niche audiences in mind with his movies(hellboy and the unmade mouth of madness coming to mind.)

So that's a big word, "responsibility". First of all, I'll put the notion that your concept of the word "geek" is, as always, very self-serving. I might be considered a "geek" or "man-child" by the standards of normal society(aka the mainstream). However, you and I have nothing in common. Period. But let's pretend for a second we did, and I fit into this narrow use of the word. What exactly do I owe you or anyone else that creates this "responsibility"? "responsibility" is something that has to do with real life(you job, your family, friends, etc.) Only on the internet would anyone think that I owe something because I went to see a fucking movie.

So no, I have responsibility on this. normal society will do want it wants with these "geek" properties, internet culture will act the way it always does. As with all things, people will change on their own if they wish to. Shoving this shit down their throat only increases their resistance to you and your ideas. When enough people change, it becomes a change in normal society. But feel free to keep getting on your moral high-horse, bob. Its always good for a laugh.

As far as your points go. On the first, internet culture and online gaming culture have always been that way and always will. Why? Very simple. People WILL say things in the anonymous nature of the web that they would NEVER say to someone to their face. It's human nature. There is no responsibility because you can walk away with no consequences. You don't like it? Sorry, but its then nature of the beast. If you want to participate in the web in any form, my only suggestion is to grow a thicker skin.

Second, Assuming you're talking about "booth babes", there being paid. On female "geeks" who go and get harassed, I would suggest giving them a piece of your mind and leaving. I've never been to a convention, but if they would be able to treat a human being that way in person, they don't deserve your time or company. Will they change because you leave? Probably not, but it's all you can really do.

On the third, I watched her first video with no preconceptions(don't care if you believe that or not). All a saw was someone tearing apart franchises from the 80's, from another country, with no story or characterization, that had not really changed in that respect over the years very much. I found it rather boring at best. I expected something more insightful, instead it was "boy rescuing princess is sexist!" repeat ad nauseum for a hour or however fucking long it was. sexism requires, in this case, for the male character to actually be characterized. They were not. As such, can't be sexist when I don't give a fuck about the characters in the sense that she's going for. Bottom line, she has the right to say what she wants in any forum. I find the kickstarter she had going for the videos strange when they were just shitty youtube vidoes with minimal research, but if people want to waste their money, I don't care. They have that right as well. And I have the right to disagree with her and walk away. I will never watch anymore of her videos, I have better things to do with my time frankly.

PS-I remember one of your big pictures about power girl. And of course, the ridiculous lengths you went to defend her "boob window". Guess it's only sexism when it's something you don't give a fuck about.

Monxeroth:

Scarim Coral:
Amen to the first half of the video but good luck trying to get people to be more mature/ responsisble from the last half of the video. By all mean Bob did raise a good point but we all know that most people don't give a danm unless the video itself is awe inspiring/ motivate us but not long lasting.
Also ain't the video itself is kind of a hypocrite coming from Bob? No don't quote me on this but I know one of the reasons why people don't like Bob is his attitude toward stuff and for him to say that the nerd culture attitude should be more mature seen hypocritical.

Although the white knighting of anita never stops and has nothing to do with geeks acting like a wounded knee when someone critizes us. Its one of those flawed arguments, logical fallacies that both jim and bob holds, ie, that the only people critical of other peoples criticism towards geek culture are always the "trolls" and the "haters"
when in reality its actual intellectual people pointing out the logical fallacies and flawed arguments of said criticism towards geek culture which is very often the case.

I for one dont have a problem with critique on geek culture, yes i very much acknowledge what bob said that sexual harassment and conventions somehow now go hand in hand, boothbabes and whatnot, but i also believe that true does not equal urgent and that we cant use the same rethorics like anita suggests:
There is sexual harassment at geek conventions
Therefore all geeks are schrodinger cat sexual offenders

Just because it's obvious that not all of us are jerks, doesn't mean the sexual harassment doesn't happen, doesn't mean that a substantial amount of Anita's negative feedback isn't trolling/flaming, so long as there's even one dickhead among us, we need to focus in on that douchenozzle and pluck it out of the community like the weed that it is, no-one's trying to blame the whole community, we're just trying to identify and get rid of the genuinely poisonous elements, and trying to pretend they're not there/not significant enough to worry about/too hard to get rid of is not helpful.

Orcboyphil:
Bob Really!? the people your riling against are either children (your homophobic, racist misoginistic Spunkgargleweewee gamers)or insular loveshy manchilds there vocal but they are a tiny tiny minority of geeks. I don't think that I've ever met one of these people in the 32 years of my life outside the internet.

So? Even the tiniest minority of extremely hateful people is worth getting rid of, we police ourselves by targeting them and ostracising them, letting them know that hatred is not welcome, banning them from forums, refusing to play with them, letting the kids/manchildren know that they either grow up or they'll never play with anyone, that they're the problem. Gradually, conditions will improve. if they're loud enough to be heard then they're loud enough to be a negative influence and presence.

It's justifiable being exclusionary when dealing with bigots.

You know, geek culture would probably be more accepting if not for the upsurge of cultural paranoia that marked the eighties.

Therefore, I blame you, Movie Bob, for Geek Culture not living up to its potential

Your pathetic, You and your eighties! Your precciouss eighties!

You know if it weren't for you it'd still be the seventies!!!

The thing is Bob, we AREN'T better. We're just as bad if not worse than those who always looked down on and persecuted us for so long.

Sovereignty:
I really hate how all the "white knights" are advocating for these special treatments of the target demographic they feel is persecuted.

Equality isn't treating a girl nicer than you would a guy on Xbox live. It's treating her the SAME way you'd treat everyone else.

The internet has ALWAYS been a cesspool. You're free to express opinions society finds taboo without any repercussion. Say something the 'community' doesn't like and you can just leave it and find another one. I'm so sick of this bullshit. You don't want equality amongst everyone. You want special treatment.

Such rubbish. The point is that nobody should be treated the way that people are treated on Xbox Live. It's about having some respect for fellow humans, and not being gross idiots. The whole "white knight" thing is nonsense. People aren't saying "show women some respect" to get laid -they're saying it because it's the proper thing to do. I do want equality among everyone. I want that equality to include decency and respect, not trash-talking bullshit.

Also, the internet has not always been a cesspool. It started as a research network that was very task-oriented and generally respectful in the early days. And it's not that people "feel" that women are persecuted online (or offline) - it's a fact that they are.

DerangedHobo:
Words like 'Nigger' and (I have no clue what the other one is) are only offensive when people perceive them as offensive.

That's completely untrue. It has as much to do with intent as it does perception. Words that are otherwise completely innocuous can be harmful when said with malicious intent. Your argument is particularly bogus, as it places all responsibility on the recipient, rather than the perpetrator. Following your logic, someone could scream a hate-filled rant about how black people are inferior to whites, and any offence taken would be in the minds of the listeners, rather than the speaker.

In a truly free society with true free speech you can say whatever you like and offend nobody, that is a utopia,

Again, wrong. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say anything without offending people. Freedom of speech entails that other have the right to be offended and counter your speech with theirs.

All that horror and genocide and murder in the past is, in the past. It happened and most of the time most of the people who persecuted it are dead.

No, it is not. Murder, genocide, and hate crimes continue to happen. It is still a part of the modern world. I can't understand why you think these things are a thing of the past, when there are so many recent examples.

Most of the people who persecuted it are dead? Tell that to the people of Rwanda. It's just not true.

DerangedHobo:

xaszatm:

1. Yes, someone can. Someone can use those words without hating homosexuals. However, it must also be said that words have consequences. Saying terms like fag and gay in such hateful manner can and will be taken in the same manner one says N***** and C*****.
2. Okay, so that is a good excuse for their behavior? The fact that they are afraid of what they might say might offend women? That speaks to a bigger social problem.
3. The reason people ask people to watch what they say is because of history. Stick and stones may break bones, but words can show underlining hatreds. Just look at America during the civil rights movement when words BECAME sticks and stones. Watch how watching a black person hang became like a family gathering. Watch the casual misogyny many senators make when restricting women's rights. The thing with words is, if you say it enough times, you start to believe its true, and that can take humanity to truly dark places.

Words like 'Nigger' and (I have no clue what the other one is) are only offensive when people perceive them as offensive, Doug Stanhope does a great bit which basically boils down to "You're going to teach people that certain noises you can make with your mouth are horrific and just the worse thing you can do? How fucking weak are you?". To put it bluntly, I like the cock and it sickens me that people will campaign and get defensive and offended when someone says "That's so gay", it's pathetic. In a truly free society with true free speech you can say whatever you like and offend nobody, that is a utopia, 'Free speech' today is a mockery. You're top of the food chain and you let a word or some hick fuck's stupid meaningless opinion offend your equally meaningless feelings?

I have nothing to add to your second point apart from this, there is sexism on both sides, the topic has been done to death and the only way out is just adopt a free for all mentality, each to their own. You aren't going to fix women getting offended or males acting like dicks.

All that horror and genocide and murder in the past is, in the past. It happened and most of the time most of the people who persecuted it are dead. As a new generation why don't we learn to laugh at the atrocities that have happened and get over such stupid mundane bullshit like 'bad words'. It's stupid.

If you think that "Free Speech" means freedom from consequence, then you are sadly mistaken. Free Speech is the freedom to say what you want and the freedom to own and all that comes with it. And all those murder and genocide hasn't gone away. It's greatly decreased, but it still goes on.

> "Whiteknighting"

This isn't a term I've heard before.

Is it, as context suggests, a term used by misogynist jerks for males who aren't misogynist jerks because they can't conceive of any male *not* being a misogynist jerk unless they had ulterior motives?

We need to be a better mainstream?

What a noble, subjective and uselessly vague goal.
And no Bob being part of the mainstream doesn't give me any power. Hell I'd have more power being part of a smaller niche group.

But sure let's strive to be less racist oh but wait it appears we're not all in agreement on what constitutes racist or sexist. So what do we do?

Oh I like that you bring up Anita like she's the only person who's ever brought up gender roles in gaming. You have, Jim Sterling has, other people have and you and I both know it. Anita said stuff about tropes previously (and talked about video games too), so we drew our conclusions of what she was going to do from that. That doesn't need to stop.

And for Pete's sake not all of this is oppression and it's frankly insulting to call it that. Forums you don't have to go to being rude or racist is not oppression. People being mean to Anita is not oppression (threats aside).

Why does everything that's bad have to be labeled oppression by social justice crusaders? All of you should talk to someone who's lived under fascist Italy or under a dictatorship and tell them what you think is oppressing you. Maybe they'll give you some perspective after they've finished laughing.

Gawwhhwhhwhwhwh more sexism/racism/homophobia lecturing... I'm sooooooooo sick of this. I've been sick of this for two years. But mostly from MovieBob. "We as a culture have such and such problems. Let's stop having those problems." Can you have, like, a codeword or something, Bob? Something to let me know that you're going to have ANOTHER lecture about this?

In fact, how do you even know it will help change the minds of those who are actually sexist and racist and stuff? Couldn't you be more of a by-example person? I have a somewhat-popular Youtube channel, in which a female friend of mine has sometimes co-hosted, and I think just that could do more good than you whining about it. I mean I know you have a good tone about it (this time) and you're being constructive, but GAWWWWWWWWWW I am sick of hearing this.

I just... I don't see how the gaming culture is nearly as bad as people keep making it out to be. For every 'ist' comment I read or hear, I hear TEN comments about all the isms in our culture.

I don't read a whole lot of forums, but... wouldn't any 'ist' comment get deleted pretty quickly on any major site?

And the 'Tropes Vs Women' thing is clearly more a result that people who are (rightfully) sick of the unreasonable actions of modern feminism being (much too!) eager to attack anything that sounds feminist. Yes people are way, way too sensitive to feminism now (the same way feminists were way, way too sensitive to sexism), but that doesn't make them sexists; it just makes them over reactionary and very obnoxiously rude.

Speaking of which, sexual harassment isn't sexism either; it's sexual harassment. And how often DOES it happen at cons? Thousands of people gathered in crowded buildings in dozens of places all year round is going to generate crime.

And racism... yeah I've got to be honest, the only times I have ever--EVER--seen straight up racist comments ANYWHERE on the internet... were directed towards black people for voting for Republicans and supporting the Fair Tax.

Y'know I'm really interested in what it means to be a "geek/nerd/whatevs" to Bob. Cuz I don't think me or most of us that consider us geeks/nerds/whatevs would fall under that.

canadamus_prime:
The thing is Bob, we AREN'T better. We're just as bad if not worse than those who always looked down on and persecuted us for so long.

Whats the 'we' stuff ke-mo sah-bee? This is what I don't understand. I understand fighting for your personal beliefs and when you actively include yourself in a group to try and oppose certain behaviors. I get this. However, geek culture is now a broad mainstream force which will develop on its own, in its own way. I am not to blame for it's current or past direction. I am not to blame for the actions of thousands of people who all claim to be under the same nebulous term 'geek'. I will not impose myself on others with the pretense of being 'progressive' a term so overly stated by people convinced in their own self righteousness.

I am a gay woman, and a geek. I've seen baseless exclusion and hate. I've been apart of this culture for most of my life. However, I cannot make the culture better but I can choose my friends, and my groups. I choose to be around people who don't support stupid and irrational behaviors. That is all you have at the end of the day. A choice. In what you do, and who you associate with. You can't control the actions of others and the more you go down the path the more of an oppressor you'll be regardless of your intentions. To give an equally trite saying in response to Bob's "The path to hell is paved with good intentions."

So... that was a bit of my personal opinion in counter to Bob's call for a collective opposition to the cultural direction. In a similar grandstanding fashion.

I can see where Bob's coming from but I don't agree. Just because the things we like are now popular and are mainstream, doesn't change OUR place in society. If you go and bring up your encylopedic knowledge of Marvel superheroes from their decades worth of comic book history, no one's going to care about it now anymore than they did before. We're not suddenly in a position of power just because what we like is now mainstream since the WAY we like it still sets us apart.

I don't know if it was just the limited communities because lulz internet but I really didn't come across or hear too much about all this terrible stuff back in the 80s and 90s, it was only from the 2000s onwards when the mainstream started to get involved did all the shit start to hit the fan.

We aren't turning the mainstream into geeks.

TomWest:
> "Whiteknighting"

This isn't a term I've heard before.

Is it, as context suggests, a term used by misogynist jerks for males who aren't misogynist jerks because they can't conceive of any male *not* being a misogynist jerk unless they had ulterior motives?

Pretty much.
Not quite putting a good footing for the male population, considering that they (said misogynist in these scenarios) are suggesting that males are just constant attention starved sex fiends.

(*note* this same specimen may also be the one to claim the existence of "fake gamer girls". The very notion of a woman doing something without seeking his attention or approval may be daunting to this creature. Avoid revealing such shocking information.)

Look, not that there couldn't be SOME instances where that is the case, but both terms get thrown so loosely now, that I highly doubt it.

MovieBob:
With Great Power

MovieBob calls for a new Geek Culture.

Watch Video

An excellent video, and one whose message I thoroughly agree with. Tired of the bullshit I see some people throwing round. Have to ask though; was there any particular event that caused you to do the episode on this topic? It sounds like there is from the way you speak, though I don't know. Just curious. Thanks again Bob. :D

nejiblue:
PS-I remember one of your big pictures about power girl. And of course, the ridiculous lengths you went to defend her "boob window". Guess it's only sexism when it's something you don't give a fuck about.

Yes! No matter how many people call Bob out as being obnoxious, there won't be enough.

This is the guy who said anyone who's excited for Fast and Furious 5 is an eleven-year-old from 2002, now giving us a glowing, happy-go-lucky speech on decency and etiquette. He liked Fast and Furious 6, by the way.

This is the guy who called any defenses of Transformers 2 to be 'douche bag arguments', and anyone who eagerly anticipated Transformers 3 to be 'better off in the theater than behind a wheel or in a voting booth where they could really do some damage', here now, lecturing us on why we shouldn't insult people.

This is the guy who said that common sense and logic is more commonly accepted on US states bordering an ocean or Canada... in a video where he also talked about the importance of tolerance and acceptance.

This is the guy who made a 22 minute video talking about how fat, angry and anti-social you are and how you need to shape up--featuring one segment that literally went like,
"I don't want to fucking hear it." He says, looking into the camera. "STOP being impolite to people, that is fucking unacceptable!"

Yeah! Being nice to people! What a crazy freaking idea!

I've wanted to do a Top 20 Worst Things Moviebob has said list and put it on Youtube. Do you think I should? I've listened to just about all of his videos.

And yes, his commentary is usually very interesting, and his personality IS very engaging and addictive, partially because of how pretentious and bitter it is.

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

TomWest:
> "Whiteknighting"

This isn't a term I've heard before.

Is it, as context suggests, a term used by misogynist jerks for males who aren't misogynist jerks because they can't conceive of any male *not* being a misogynist jerk unless they had ulterior motives?

Pretty much.
Not quite putting a good footing for the male population, considering that they (said misogynist in these scenarios) are suggesting that males are just constant attention starved sex fiends.

(*note* this same specimen may also be the one to claim the existence of "fake gamer girls". The very notion of a woman doing something without seeking his attention or approval may be daunting to this creature. Avoid revealing such shocking information.)

Yes the idea that someone would fake an interest in something to attract men or to get attention or fit in is clearly absurd.

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

Look, not that there couldn't be SOME instances where that is the case.

Backpedal! Backpedal for all your might!

TomWest:
> "Whiteknighting"

This isn't a term I've heard before.

Is it, as context suggests, a term used by misogynist jerks for males who aren't misogynist jerks because they can't conceive of any male *not* being a misogynist jerk unless they had ulterior motives?

A white knight is a person who defends women in any situation no matter what.

It might also imply that the person is doing this just to get laid.

TomWest:
> "Whiteknighting"

This isn't a term I've heard before.

Is it, as context suggests, a term used by misogynist jerks for males who aren't misogynist jerks because they can't conceive of any male *not* being a misogynist jerk unless they had ulterior motives?

Misogynist.

A term I've heard quite often. It use to have real meaning but in our day in age it has rapidly deteriorated.

It's a pretty meaningless word at this point because it's used in near every case describing someone who has criticisms of any form of feminism. A categorizing term to make sure the user feels good about himself or herself for not being one of 'those' people. Yes, lets defame all ideological resistance to our ideas and see how far it gets us.

Historically it never has good results.

In all seriousness though, there are real misogynists and there are critics of feminism as a theory. Feminism as a theory and a lot of frequent posters don't see the difference a lot of the time.

you have really lost me siding with that women/pop culture critic and feminist. Sorry but if you really do buy into all her crap. Im not not falling into that trap. the double standards are amazing.

th3dark3rsh33p:
I choose to be around people who don't support stupid and irrational behaviors. That is all you have at the end of the day.

Um, no, that isn't all you have. What you have is the ability to *publicly* make it clear that you find certain behavior repulsive. Odds are that most of the people around do as well, and may well chip in once someone's been brave enough to call out the behavior for what it is.

I'll use an analogy. When I was young, drunk driving wasn't a big thing. When the government first brought in real penalties for it, most people felt it was way overkill and would scoop up decent people who didn't deserve it.

Cut to 10 years later in university. I remember an acquaintance getting ready to drive who *definitely* shouldn't be. He's a popular guy and there's a sort of silence as he's getting ready to leave. Somebody offers to drive, but he turns them down. He's fine. He's been doing this for years without a problem.

One of the young women just snaps and makes it clear she finds it *really* uncool. He gets annoyed, looks around for support, and it becomes instantly clear when there's either a shaking of head or refusal to meet eyes, that everyone else agrees he's being an idiot. He got annoyed, and stomped off, driving home.

But after that, he always had one of his non-drinking friends drive. Never acknowledged anything (at least where I saw him), but the behavior changed.

Most of us have occasionally witnessed the bad behavior that Bob is talking about, but there's usually only a slightly uncomfortable silence, which is easy enough for the clueless to see as approval. I think our ethical duty is to make certain that the offender clearly understands how acceptable we find his actions. Personally, I don't feel the need to denigrate the offender, just the offense.

I like this video because all the posting in here shows me that MovieBob is pretty much right on the money, as usual.

You nerds got a lot of growing up to do :V

When someone does something obviously awful, you don't just sit there and pretend that its 'okay' for whatever reason. NO its not okay, and you do yourself and your fellows a disservice by not calling out awfulness for what it is!

theultimateend:

JimB:
So you're saying that instead of hypocritically embracing an atmosphere of exclusion that we have defined ourselves as the victims of, geeks ought to try to fight the demon that has plagued us for so long?

You're a madman, Mr. Chipman! A madman!

It certainly worked for African American Culture.

You won't catch them viciously fighting against gay rights.

It blows my mind.

I think that's just the thing. Once people get into a position of power they pick up the reigns of the people they fought against in the first place.

Maybe something about us all being the same at the core or whatever. I dunno.

Be nice. That's my advice.

To paraphrase another geek icon...

We're dicks. It's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings, with the dickery of a million savage years on our hands... but we can stop it. We can admit that we're dicks, but we're not going to be dicks today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we're not going to be dicks. Today.

Dangit2019:

Silk_Sk:
Geek 3.0 = bronies.

Oh God, and then we're back at square one.

Come to the dark side. We have cupcakes.

Father Time:

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

TomWest:
> "Whiteknighting"

This isn't a term I've heard before.

Is it, as context suggests, a term used by misogynist jerks for males who aren't misogynist jerks because they can't conceive of any male *not* being a misogynist jerk unless they had ulterior motives?

Pretty much.
Not quite putting a good footing for the male population, considering that they (said misogynist in these scenarios) are suggesting that males are just constant attention starved sex fiends.

(*note* this same specimen may also be the one to claim the existence of "fake gamer girls". The very notion of a woman doing something without seeking his attention or approval may be daunting to this creature. Avoid revealing such shocking information.)

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

Look, not that there couldn't be SOME instances where that is the case.

Backpedal! Backpedal for all your might!

I honestly I had no idea it was possible to be accused of backpedaling out of A JOKE.
In fact I even went through the effort of separating my the two statements, to emphasise the difference between them.

My joke: Exaggerated perspective with animal planet reference for humorous effect.

My statement: Regarding my opinion of the terms "white knight" and "fake gamer girl".

Ah Escapist, please, never fail to surprise me on how anal some people can be. :)

xaszatm:

So...because it was always a cesspool, we should be proud of it? We should be proud that online gaming is full of misogynistic, racist, homophobic garbage? The fact that we are trying to get rid of this is a bad thing? Is really asking people to think before they open their mouths special treatment? To show common decency? To realize that other people are PEOPLE?

Are you seriously asking if advocating "to get rid of [dissenting opinions]" is a bad thing? I know this subject is generally discouraged from bringing up, but do you really want to go down that path? Ein Volk, ein Rich, ein Furher.
Now I realize that you may have good intentions, but the moment you start demanding that dissenting opinions should be completely silenced, you start to walk a very fine line between having good intentions and repeating the mistakes of the past.

As for how people should communicate to one another, its one thing to ask that a person not say something but its quiet another the demand or expect people to conform to your ideas and censor themselves, because it IS special treatment to be forced to give special consideration to the feelings of one group of people over that of another group of people.

xaszatm:

I literally cannot comprehend your thinking. Maybe I'm too naive, but I thought that the Cross Assault guy was wrong. That mean-spirited name calling WASN'T part of our culture and if it was, SHOULDN'T be. But here I'm seeing that it is something we should be proud of?!? And when anyone wants people to not to such a thing is "White Knighting?" "Giving Special Treatment?"

Again, you don't have to like that part of the culture, but the idea that things that you find offensive should be completely banned isn't going to sit well with most people-or as Steve Fry summarized it...

xaszatm:

1. Yes, someone can. Someone can use those words without hating homosexuals. However, it must also be said that words have consequences. Saying terms like fag and gay in such hateful manner can and will be taken in the same manner one says N***** and C*****.
2. Okay, so that is a good excuse for their behavior? The fact that they are afraid of what they might say might offend women? That speaks to a bigger social problem.
3. The reason people ask people to watch what they say is because of history. Stick and stones may break bones, but words can show underlining hatreds. Just look at America during the civil rights movement when words BECAME sticks and stones. Watch how watching a black person hang became like a family gathering. Watch the casual misogyny many senators make when restricting women's rights. The thing with words is, if you say it enough times, you start to believe its true, and that can take humanity to truly dark places.

1.First off the words are Nigger and Cracker(?), not N***** and C*****. Second off, I must repeat the question that Stephen Fry has proposed above, so what if a person finds those words offensive? They can just mute the person or say something back that is equally offensive.
2. True, the social problem is that people are overly concerned about the consequences of being demonized for voicing an dissenting thought/form of humor/ect.
3.Almost got it, but it goes "Sticks and Stones can break my bones, but WORDS CAN NEVER HURT ME", and while that may not always be the case, fortunately people can just mute those who they don't care to listen to. As for the rest of your comment, lol. You truly give Xboxlive more credit than it deserves if you seriously think that people trash talking on COD could ever amount to the passing of racist/misogynistic federal laws in the United States or any country for that matter.

Finally I'll leave you with this video, it's quiet relevant to the topic and its something that could really do you some good to match and consider...

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

Father Time:

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

Pretty much.
Not quite putting a good footing for the male population, considering that they (said misogynist in these scenarios) are suggesting that males are just constant attention starved sex fiends.

(*note* this same specimen may also be the one to claim the existence of "fake gamer girls". The very notion of a woman doing something without seeking his attention or approval may be daunting to this creature. Avoid revealing such shocking information.)

TheFinalFantasyWolf:

Look, not that there couldn't be SOME instances where that is the case.

Backpedal! Backpedal for all your might!

I honestly I had no idea it was possible to be accused of backpedaling out of A JOKE.
In fact I even went through the effort of separating my the two statements, to emphasise the difference between them.

My joke: Exaggerated perspective with animal planet reference for humorous effect.

My statement: Regarding my opinion of the terms "white knight" and "fake gamer girl".

Ah Escapist, please, never fail to surprise me on how anal some people can be. :)

I'm so used to dealing with smug condescending people when this topic comes up that I didn't realize it was a joke. Sorry.

Oh please. Defending things at the core of your hobby from people criticising them, and you, as sexist is hardly exclusionary. If you want to play Mario come on in and take a seat, but don't then fucking complain about the characterisation of characters that serve no other purpose than to create a simple motivation that doesn't have to be explained, and to be a catalyst for jumping on mushrooms and turtles.

It's no secret that there are a lot of abusive dickheads out there (not trolls, those are people pretending to be abusive dickheads). But their verbal tendancies generally have nothing to do with why some characters or games are a certain way, and I'm perfectly within my rights to disagree that there is some sort of inbuilt casual sexism everywhere in my hobby, and people who think similarly aren't a stain on overall credibility or acting immaturely.

itsthesheppy:

Jacco:
Christ. This was pretty much a sociology class in 6 minutes. I hate those stupid terms like "cisgender" cause it just adds to the idea of difference. If people truly want a unified equal human species, we need to stop making up stupid meaningless terms like that.

Those terms do have meaning to people who are different from you. Accepting that reality and adopting it into your worldview is a big step towards maturity and understanding. Spend less time fighting against that is meaningful for others, and spend more time trying to work those differences in perspective into your overall worldview.

I'm allowed to reject a meaning I don't think needs to exist. Otherwise what do 'man' and 'woman' even mean? Without the assumption that unless you specifically say otherwise, they are as you would expect, they don't have meaning to describe gender. It's a matter of whether you want to use 'cis' and rope yourself into affixing every instance of a gender description with a suffix or just use the standard terms unless you mean otherwise. Why should someone make a word and everyone else be immature for not adopting it, because that person or group finds it meaningful? Can they not be immature for complicating language to pander to their own needs when they could be a little less pretentious and use the words we have? I'm all for describing people as transgendered if that's the case, but cisgender is the status quo, and it is generally understood that that's what you're referring to when you just use the straight term 'man' or 'woman'.

AstaresPanda:
you have really lost me siding with that women/pop culture critic and feminist. Sorry but if you really do buy into all her crap. Im not not falling into that trap. the double standards are amazing.

I actually think comments like this are part of the problem, it's basically saying that due to one person badly arguing a point that it is inherently wrong. Anita's videos are terrible for a myriad of reasons, but there is an underlying issue of anti-women culture in videogames and only by educating others will it have a chance at being resolved. Now she isn't educating people directly, the way she tries to get her point across is terribly confusing. But the hatred associated with her as a woman gamer talking about feminism, even before most people had even seen the videos highlights the inability of male gamers to deal with women as gamers with their own opinions.

Also... I dislike when people say "I know girls who play CoD", I think the potential for a more widespread and socially acceptable female gamer culture lies in games designed specifically for women. Of course this is based in my own experience and observations that your average woman will go towards the more calm and recreational type games as opposed to the more hardcore competitive style ones.

Now... i'm going to make a really controversial statement.

The Sims, it's a popular franchise among women, it up until this point has been a single player experience. EA had stated that it intends on making the Sims 4 an Online Game. Despite all the warnings up until this point... It may be a step in the right direction. Do you know the kind of crap women put up with to play The Sims 3? It was insane, tons and tons of expansions, DLC, glitches to the roof, and they still loved it. But making The Sims 4 online, adding a social MMO element to it, and possibly live fixes for errors...

Don't get me wrong EA are evil money grubbing so and so's, but it could be a decision that brings to light the potential behind the female gamer as a consumer. EA could make a good decision.

More worrisome than the perceived sexism (that exist to no greater degree in "nerd" culture than in any other predominantly male-sphere ) is the corporate involvement here. As soon as a sub-culture has reached a certain point of popularity it's normally subject to massive attempted cash-ins. We can see it now with all these terrible tv-shows trying to cash in on the nerd culture by slinging a few references here and there. Nerd-culture is nowadays an even greater target for the big cash-cows and while it may be "mainstream" in Small Bob's eyes, you don't see a lot of nerds making key decisions around the world. A ton might have made some serious money off products but they're not the driving force for any kind of social norms and so on.

The Avengers might be one hell of a popular movie, but Vertigo's being shut down after having its writers' contracts suffer terrible reworks. The gaming industry is in many ways thriving, but its development with constant DRM and ever-increasing AAA production costs gives us reason to worry. These "nerd" movies are becoming popular and not a single one of them show much depth beyond what the "old" nerd-culture grew out of in the 7th grade. If he's going to try and sell me on this power-position then this "mainstream nerd culture" thing of his needs strive to be a little bit more than a new tool for the old powers that be.

This might be tricky for someone who hailed Zero Dark Thirty as an incredible movie, but I implore the rest of you to stay vigilant.

It just bugs me how vague bob is.

His examples of bad things to fight are 'racist/sexist/hateful things said on forums and over headsets' which if you think about it is incredibly vague. Then there's groping at conventions which is something solid, and then the 3rd one is overreacting to people like Anita which is really vague because people will tend to disagree on what is overreacting (same with what's racist).

I've seen people try to stir up shit by calling out stuff using very vague things like this, then when they're called out they fall back to 'oh I only meant the worst possible things that qualify, how could you be in favor of those things'.

So Bob either give us some specifics of what we should stop doing or don't bother.

Aardvaarkman:

Also, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, with what Bob calls the "Golden Age" of gaming. I'd disagree. The Golden age of gaming is upon us right now, or has been for the last decade or so. Aside from nostalgia, few people would give up today's games for the older ones.

...I think it's a matter of perspective, but as someone who grew up with 'state of the art modern graphical masterpieces' I'm inclined to...question what people you're talking about. I grew up exposed to the new, and have now chosen the old, and upon giving the old a chance, I come across few who are not the same. Nostalgia is not a bad reason to enjoy something, but it's also not the only reason why people crave the age of genre variety and reliance on creativity to fight limitation, over the modern method of following the leader, despite the fact that people already have purchased the 'leader'.

the antithesis:
Meh, I kind of stopped watching two thirds of the way through.

I really don't care what you kids do anymore.

So right when he started using the word "cis-gendered"?

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