Zero Punctuation: The Last of Us

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Okay, since Yahtzee has this bad habit of occasionally actually "enjoying" a game, people seem to have forgotten that this is what he does. But everyone who automatically goes, "YAHTZEE IS THE SAVIOR" might need a nice cup of sit down and shut up.

Anyway, meh. I enjoyed the game for what it is. I actually kinda like the portrayal of how the whole thing happens and how the disease actually spreads. Yahtzee didn't a number of valid/slightly exaggerated reasons which are slightly understandable but also a bit overblown...because that's what he does.

Also: I'm pretty sure the story establishes that plenty of people try to do the whole peace thing but the dicks won out.
But of course everyone knows this, we've seen it all before, and plenty would rather not see it again. So I understand the criticism.

Buuuut I like slamming faces against thing...though I still wish Joel would learn there's more to life than that.

gjkbgt:
I was seriously planning on getting a ps3 just to play this game
but now i'm not going to.

I got into a massive argument after the E3 2012 gameplay demo

i hated how after an apocalypse everyone just starts killing everone else for no real reason

As the man says now these less of us surely the value of human life should have gone up. I mean if everyone i ever cared about was dead i'd do everything i could to avoid more pointless death.
Yes people would be angry and hate filled but at the ones who took there loved-ones away. The clickers not the humans (don't want to get into that)

So yes great review saved me a lot of heartache and 160

After an apocalypse, resources, or access to resources would be severely limited, such as clean water, food, medicine. Maslow's heirarchy of needs. If the base needs aren't covered, people tend not to reach a psychological level of satisfying any morality needs.

There might be spoilers ahead* if you have any interest about this game, GO PLAY IT!

We all know that Yahtzee DOES THIS, ripping games apart for the sake of entertainment, it's true.
But you know what I respect, that he generally has the intelligence and intecrity to recognize what is good, he may be reluctant but he doesn't fail to praise Spec Ops, Silent Hill 2, Portal, or Shadow of the Colossus. Even when he finds a profoundly unexpected positive in an otherwise rather generic game, he makes it note, as he borderline praised the first Modern Warfare, and found positives even in the somewhat obscured Resistance 3.

And that is why this is such a disappointment coming from someone I have come to respect over the years. No, I don't take him too seriously... but I thought more of him. The Last of Us has issues, bigger issues than the petty complaints he found considerable enough to mention. For example, the inclusion of collectibles that completely rip the immersion out of the otherwise extremely conscientious and engaging exploration. Making us realize again that: hey, it's a game after all. Or the few sections where it scriptedly forces you into killing a number of enemies even when you have made great efforts to use stealth. Even how the Encounters are secluded and limited to certain areas that almost feel like monster closets contrasting with the very organic feel of the world.

Granted, there are smaller gameplay complaints, like the inclusion of weapons that are more or less usable to different playstyles (I actually did use smoke bombs efectively a couple of times), Or that the companion AI isn't always perfect (quite honestly it is much better than most other AI companions, and even had certain personality traits evolving with the story). But those are only minor problems that are present in almost any game that has weapons or AI companions.

(about that, every time a game comes up with AI companions, everyone destroys them, so I wonder: Have they EVER been any good? or are they one of those things that is only good in theory? to me TLOU is probably it's best implementation, but it still seems to get quite some hate)

About society, I find it a bit silly to complain about it's lack of care for human life. The truth is that there is A LOT of care, there even is PARANOIA, and the situation presented in the game is precisely so special because it pushes these characters into breaking the new social conventions that are much more strict and careful than they used to be.
Several times in the game npcs comment on how terrifying it would be to get an infected inside one of these enclosed human havens... but the thing is that the relative stability has been accomplished by force. Crisis does test the limits of society, and particularly throughout the game(With the subtle comments that David's followers make, or the survivor logs in different refuges) we learn that stability is only acquired through sacrifice.

About the unlikeability of characters, I think it says enough that we can speak about their intentions and motivations for so long. They are superbly realized, and even in his cynicism Yahtzee should see that. Their interactions make spec ops (and most other -spoken narrative- games up to date) seem blunt, coarse and hamfisted. Sure, I knew how the general plot would play up from the get go, but it is the grayness in the themes that really surprised me, there are no real villains and the heroes are the first to die. A character as Dark, pathetic but intensely relatable as Joel I think I had only seen fleshed out this well in literature.
Hollywood would definitely avoid this much moral conflict like the plague, and most games only give "evil" options as a possibility to fill up a red fiery bar. And still most of us managed to understand how hard the decisions were.
In this line, as people said before, the ending is not at all a "happily ever after" it is both of them knowing that it is all a based on a lie. It is slow burning anguish, faced upon the imperative to survive.

So what the hell was this, Yahtzee?
Is it your new found hatred for all things console? Is it your contempt for exclusives? Is it that you are so caught up in your dislike for the developer that you can't see what a special thing they've done? Or maybe it really is that you couldn't find anything worth your time in the game... in which case.. I'm starting to think that maybe you should change your line of work to... foreign north Korean political correspondent? Sour stamp licker? something where you may be able to enjoy the real good things in life...

gjkbgt:

A1:
[

Historyism:
[

I know that "tropes" says after the apocalypse goes down everyone starts there kill rampage
Don't mind that can be a bit of fun.

What i object to is people taking that Trope. Declaring it true and trying to tell a heart breaking lord of the flies style storey based around it
Because it's not true.
Humas have three basic need food, water & shelter. If you are in a hostile environment full of zombies then shelter is hard to find alone

so you form groups, no one want to be kicked out of the group and everyone benefits from being in the group.

No one wants to risk death assisted with gang warfare when there are so many zombies about so groups interact peacefully.

we evolved to be nice as a survival strategy. same for evolving to not wanting to kill our fellow man.

The less fights you get in the longer you live: Fact!

If you want to imagine a world where apocalypse makes everyone a murder go for it
but don't use your headcanon to make teach me a moral lesson

"If you are in a hostile environment full of zombies then shelter is hard to find alone"

Actually that may or may not be true depending on the rules and circumstances of a given zombie scenario.

"we evolved to be nice as a survival strategy. same for evolving to not wanting to kill our fellow man."

Human history as well as studies of human behavior tell a different and more complicated story. Wars, genocide, murder, mass murder, suicide. All of these things have happened a lot throughout human history and continue to happen. Scientific research tells that humans rank among the most violent of species. Violence, and the desire for it, is a part of human nature.

Of course human nature isn't all bad. But it's certainly not all good either.

You seem to be speaking of good human behavior via logic and reasoning. But one of the problems is that human beings don't always behave rationally or logically. And even reason and logic might not encourage or support good behavior depending on certain factors such as the limitations of resources or the matter of dealing with other people who aren't thinking or behaving rationally or logically.

I feel like this video was made just to bash the game. It's not the greatest game ever made, but what did it do to deserve such hate?

Legion:
The only part I agree with is the problem with the enemies all ignoring Ellie. In stealth situations having her happily run around and Clickers not even noticing was a little jarring.

The rest of it I couldn't agree with less. It seemed like complaining for the sake of it and/or deliberately missing the point.

yeah pretty much my thoughts. I understand he's got to critique and all, but these complaints were formed as if he read the wikipedia page and based it all off that.

I was counting my lucky stars that I didn't actually have to watch Ellie though. And the fact she could dance around enemies was more amusing than irritating to me.
That being said, I don't know if people were playing on lower difficulties or what, cause Ellie still gets attacked a lot. In zombie swarms they would corner her and I had to kill her attackers before the meter ran out or gets her throat bitten off, and similar things happened occasionally with bandits if she got really separated during some intense firefights.

I'm still going to get the game, because it really does seem like an interesting experience and if the story is good, then that's really all I could ever hope for.

The only thing that really surprised me is that Ellie can't die. That's a bit strange and I agree with Yahtzee that they should have just used the mechanics from Resident Evil 4, since they enable the player to carry out their protection duty more effectively.

FallenMessiah88:
I'm still going to get the game, because it really does seem like an interesting experience and if the story is good, then that's really all I could ever hope for.

The only thing that really surprised me is that Ellie can't die. That's a bit strange and I agree with Yahtzee that they should have just used the mechanics from Resident Evil 4, since they enable the player to carry out their protection duty more effectively.

Actually Ellie can die and she does get attacked sometimes. Sometimes an enemy will grab her and you have a limited amount of time to help before she gets killed. It's the same deal with all the other friendly AI companions you work with throughout the game. Friendly AI characters do sometimes get attacked, just not as often as the player character.

And for what it's worth here's my advice.

Don't take Yahtzee's "review" of this game seriously. I assure you that he does not do the game justice.

OT: The fact that Yahtzee didn't say one positive thing about this video has me disappointed. I know his specialty is nitpicks but he typically points out and acknowledges the good things in games he likes. As to why he's hating on this game so hard, I haven't a clue.

I would think he'd be above crass fanboyism of Microsoft, as that's really the only actual reason one can have for not giving this at least one tentative thumb up even if you're completely sick of shooting games, zombie games, and hate Naughty Dog.

Pink Apocalypse:
I normally get consistent chuckles out of Yahtzee's humor, even when it's crass. But that 'motorboat' joke hit me badly. Jokes about underage characters and sexual acts just aren't funny.

The sad thing is, I may very well be the only one who thinks so.

His use of the word orifice earlier in the video combined with the motorboat joke conjured up scary memories. Whatever you do, don't google image search "The Last Orifice". I would have considered it quite suspicious for him to have made two references to it coincidentally but he tends to utilize the word orifice fairly often.

Legion:
The smoke bomb part I agree that they are useless, but not because they are not necessary, it's just that they don't seem to work properly. The enemy never stopped firing at me when I threw them either when it was at their feet or at mine.

That's funny, I find smokebombs the most broken item in the game. Just drop at feet of enemy and they'll sit in the smoke doing nothing for the full 3 or so minutes it takes for it to go away.

Just wanted to say... holy crap that giraffe scene. I can understand the apathy syndrome though. What a grim dark world.

Also, the shiv upgrade to defend against clickers takes care of the one hit problem. It's annoying that's where your first upgrades will always go.

Zachary Amaranth:
Also, "I don't like what yahztee had to say so he did a bad job."

Not only did I sum up a lot of comments in this thread, but in most ZP threads, with one line.

Let's not forget the classic "Yahtzee isn't a reviewer, he's a comedian, and he has to make everything seem bad because it's funny."

So... this is the first time I've ever really COMPLETELY disagreed with Yahtzee. It feels like we played a totally different game. Oh, actually, I did agree with one thing. Smoke bombs ARE fairly useless. They have a minimal degree of use, but they're far less useful than literally everything else in the game.

But aside of that... first, I'd like to say that some of the things he says are just plain wrong. Ellie CAN be attacked by zombies. So can the rest of your support characters. Maybe he was playing on a lower difficulty to get through the game faster? I'm honestly not sure if that's outright removed on easy or normal.

And what he said about the story is really baffling to me. I don't know how he just seemed to completely miss the entire point and every single theme the game slaps right in your face.

Also, I found it ironic that he complained about Ellie adding nothing to gameplay after not saying a word about Elizabeth in Infinite. All Liz did was make the game unnecessarily easy. Ellie is actually a great help. If you're stealthing she tells you if enemies are coming from a direction you're not facing and that you need to move. If you're in combat she assists you with taking out enemies.

Also odd? A lot of things that he praises about literally any other game that has certain features, he didn't even mention here. Like being able to carry all weapons and the lack of regenerating health. I have no idea HOW he made a comparison between TLoU and the generic model that lots of AAA games use with some shooting here and stealthing there and setpieces inbetween. Those games barely have stealth, and if so it is for one or two sections of the game. TLoU is BASED around stealth. And TLoU doesn't even have setpieces unless you count the prologue and... something close to the very end of the game, I guess. TLoU doesn't even make you press anything to get in cover. They just let you position yourself behind it by your own methods. Actually, Yahtzee praised Resistance 3 for literally every single one of these things and mentioned none of them here...

I feel like a lot of people are being dramatic about this on both ends of the spectrum, both with the "praise yahtzee now I know to never get this game" and "this review is a betrayal I used to trust you". I am on neither side. I still love the guy and his work. I have disagreed with Yahtzee on games many times before. This is just the first instance where it's not a case of us just being into different things, but simply... I don't even know. I don't want to say he's wrong, but I think most of his points are invalid. There are valid reasons to not like TLoU. But he stated only one of them.

CLICKERS! GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING CLICKRS! I knew I wasn't the only one that thought they were cheap as hell, I KNEW IT! Yahtzee knows my pain, those cheap override everything 1HKO's are bullshit. My friends didn't believe me, they said I just sucked but DAMMIT I knew it wasn't just me. Well either that or Yahtzee sucks too.

MOTHERFUCKING CLICKERS!

otakon17:
CLICKERS! GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING CLICKRS! I knew I wasn't the only one that thought they were cheap as hell, I KNEW IT! Yahtzee knows my pain, those cheap override everything 1HKO's are bullshit. My friends didn't believe me, they said I just sucked but DAMMIT I knew it wasn't just me. Well either that or Yahtzee sucks too.

MOTHERFUCKING CLICKERS!

Get all the shiv upgrades as soon as possible in the game. It makes the clickers much easier to deal with.

What you're assuming is that people will act rationally under widespread panic and destruction which they clearly will not.

Delcast:
There might be spoilers ahead* if you have any interest about this game, GO PLAY IT!

We all know that Yahtzee DOES THIS, ripping games apart for the sake of entertainment, it's true.
But you know what I respect, that he generally has the intelligence and intecrity to recognize what is good, he may be reluctant but he doesn't fail to praise Spec Ops, Silent Hill 2, Portal, or Shadow of the Colossus. Even when he finds a profoundly unexpected positive in an otherwise rather generic game, he makes it note, as he borderline praised the first Modern Warfare, and found positives even in the somewhat obscured Resistance 3.

And that is why this is such a disappointment coming from someone I have come to respect over the years. No, I dont take him too seriously... but I thought more of him. The Last of Us has issues, bigger issues than the petty complaints he found considerable enough to mention. For example, the inclusion of collectibles that completely rip the immersion out of the otherwise extremely conscientious and engaging exploration. Making us realize again that: hey, it's a game after all. Or the few sectiosn where it forces you into killing a number of enemies even when you have made consious efforts to use stealth. Even how the Encounters are sectorized and limited to certain areas that almost feel like monster closets contrasting with the very organic feel of the world.

Granted, there are smaller gameplay complaints, like the inclusion of weapons that are more or less usable to different playstyles (I actually did use smoke bombs efectively a couple of times), Or that the companion AI isn't always perfect (quite honestly it is much better than most other AI companions, and even had certain personality traits evolving with the story). But those are only minor problems that are present in almost any game that has weapons or AI companions.

(about that, every time a game comes up with AI companions, everyone destroys them, so I wonder: Have they EVER been any good? or are they one of those things that is only good in theory? to me TLOU is probably it's best implementation, but it still seems to get quite some hate)

About society, I find it a bit silly to complain about it's lack of care for human life. The truth is that there is A LOT of care, there even is PARANOIA, and the situation presented in the game is precisely so special because it pushes these characters into breaking the new social conventions that are much more strict and careful than they used to be.
Several times in the game npcs comment on how terrifying it would be to get an infected inside one of these enclosed human havens... but the thing is that the relative stability has been accomplished by force. Crisis does test the limits of society, and particularly throughout the game(With the subtle comments that David's followers make, or the survivor logs in different refuges) we learn that stability is only acquired through sacrifice.

About the unlikeability of characters, I think it says enough that we can speak about their intentions and motivations for so long. They are superbly realized, and even in his cynicism Yahtzee should see that. Their interactions make spec ops (and most other -spoken narrative- games up to date) seem blunt, coarse and hamfisted. Sure, I knew how the general plot would play up from the get go, but the greyness in the themes that really surprised me, there are no villains, and the heroes are the first to die. A character as Dark, pathetic but intensely relatable as Joel I think I had only seen fleshed out this well in literature.
Hollywood would definitely avoid this much moral conflict like the plague, and most games only give "evil" options as a posibility to fill up a red fiery bar. And still most of us managed to understand how hard the decisions were.
In this line, as people said before, the ending is not at all a "happily ever after" it is both of them knowing that it is all a based on a lie. It is slow burning anguish, faced upon the imperative to survive.

So what the hell was this? Yahtzee?
Is it your new found hatred for all things console? Is it your contempt for exclusives? Is it that you are so caught up in your dislike for the developer that you can't see what a special thing they've done? Or maybe it really is that you couldn't find anything worth your time in the game... in which case.. I'm starting to think that maybe you should change your line of work to... foreign north corean political correspondant? Sour stamp licker? something where you may be able to enjoy the real good things in life...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

A1:

otakon17:
CLICKERS! GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING CLICKRS! I knew I wasn't the only one that thought they were cheap as hell, I KNEW IT! Yahtzee knows my pain, those cheap override everything 1HKO's are bullshit. My friends didn't believe me, they said I just sucked but DAMMIT I knew it wasn't just me. Well either that or Yahtzee sucks too.

MOTHERFUCKING CLICKERS!

Get all the shiv upgrades as soon as possible in the game. It makes the clickers much easier to deal with.

Oh yeah man, I know. Except the cost is so damn high for the last upgrade.

I didn't play the game, but watched a friend play it, and he never used a single smokebomb, so i guess I can agree with yahtzee on how useful they are. Then again, from watching him it seems that the "stealth" in the game is completely arbitrary, as he'd just go and brick everything in the face rather than sneak anywhere.
Also, once again, since i didn't play it, can anyone tell me how joel has super hearing that let's him see through walls or whatever? or is that never explained ingame?

anyways, i liked the review, made me laugh.

After reading these comments it just seems like people are upset that he didn't like the game they like. It shouldn't matter to anyone whether or not Yahtzee liked the game. If you enjoyed it, good for you. Not everyone shares your tastes.

People are not "hating" this video because Yahtzee shat on a game,but because its content reeks of hypocrisy and half of it isnt even about the game in the title.

Also,why can't people be arsed to make spoiler tags? Ending has been spoiled already in the first 2-3 pages

Regards to AI,it could have been better for the enemy while stealthing,but in combat scenarios its probably among the best 3 I've played against in 1st/3rd person shooters.This video is from NeoGaf (it's taken from the same level shown in the E3 demo):

Ellie stabs them in the back,throws bricks,gives ammo/health kit,comments on kills,enemies recognize you don't have ammo,move up when they're out of sight or flank you.Wtf more do people want when 99% of the shooters have people standing up and down from cover if they even bother to use any at all.

I have to agree with smoke bombs being useless,IF you're playing on normal difficulty.They'll definately make your life easier on hard and survivor difficulty.Also I'd suggest to anyone who wants to fully experience this to start on hard with listen mode off with good headphones,makes it x100 better.

I can't be bothered to quote/snip all of you guys so if you so whatever

1) humans always have a better chance of survival in groups. Not even going to bother justifying that if you can't work out why then i don't care about your opinion

2) I'm not insanely naive I know about wars and genocide. But both of those phenomena are not due to lack of society or societal rule
the exact opposite is true in-fact. They are about the clash of two societies.

3) The point is scale. Yes less law enforcement means more criminals but major crime is 10/100 000 it'll go p to maybe 100/100 000 that's still almost nothing.
This is doubly true for murder. Crime is motivated by profit these no profit to be made from murder.
And despite what you think about evil everyman is the hero of his own storey some just think there han solo not luke skywalker.
After a zombie invasion human life becomes more treasured even to criminals.

So getting Jumped by murders ten times a mission might be necessary for gameplay but not realistic. i can suspend my disbelief for gameplay.
But when you take that unrealistic premise and try to make it poignant then in my view you can fuck off.

Sexual crime tends to go a bit mad i war-zones so it was going to explore that then ok
but somehow i doubt it

Alright, so before I watch this I need to know, are there any spoilers I should be concerned about?

EyeReaper:
I didn't play the game, but watched a friend play it, and he never used a single smokebomb, so i guess I can agree with yahtzee on how useful they are. Then again, from watching him it seems that the "stealth" in the game is completely arbitrary, as he'd just go and brick everything in the face rather than sneak anywhere.
Also, once again, since i didn't play it, can anyone tell me how joel has super hearing that let's him see through walls or whatever? or is that never explained ingame?

anyways, i liked the review, made me laugh.

Stealth in the game is useful, but in many cases totally optional. So whether or not someone wants to use it depends on their play style. In my experience stealth generally saves resources, but can take longer. However, sometimes the game will put the player in an exceptionally difficult and dangerous spot in which stealth is definitely the best option, if not a virtual necessity. And there's at least one small part where it is a necessity as far as I know (at least on hard mode maybe).

And no Joel doesn't have any superhuman abilities, just a well trained sense of hearing. It is actually possible for a human being to train one of their five senses to increase it's performance. But if you don't care for the listening mode feature it can actually be turned off.

Mick P.:
I think the plant zombies is a fresh idea.

I hate to be that guy, but Cordiceps is a fungus, not a plant. This is an important distinction.

OT: I'm kinda disappointed with this review. Not because he didn't like it (I didn't really expect him too), but his criticisms weren't particularly well made and the humour was non-existent. I just watched it and the only joke I that stuck in my mind was the motorboat, and that certainly wasn't because it was funny. Even if I completely disagree with the review's message, I still enjoy the video. This just feels like he didn't really try. I imagine writing three articles a week is pretty demanding, I just hope next week's is better.

A1:
Actually Ellie can die and she does get attacked sometimes. Sometimes an enemy will grab her and you have a limited amount of time to help before she gets killed. It's the same deal with all the other friendly AI companions you work with throughout the game. Friendly AI characters do sometimes get attacked, just not as often as the player character.

Nice. I'm glad to hear that.

A1:

And for what it's worth here's my advice.

Don't take Yahtzee's "review" of this game seriously. I assure you that he does not do the game justice.

Don't worry. I primarily watch ZP for entertainment, not so much to get a serious reivew.

TomWiley:
Alright, so before I watch this I need to know, are there any spoilers I should be concerned about?

Yes, there's something Yahtzee implies which the biggest spoiler possible.

Man I read some comments first before watching the review and I half expected yahtzee to have a live action video of himself taking a long solid dump all over the game.

As it is now that I've seen the video it seems like most of the complaints are that he didn't like the game enough, or he shouldn't have been unimpressed by the story.

Sometimes some of us just don't enjoy some things guys. Can't be helped.

gjkbgt:
quote

There are quarantine zones in bigger cities and some of them have already lost their law enforcement either by getting overrun by the infected or by the people they were protecting.Theyre the ones distributing rations to the population,add corruption,greed or declining rate of incoming supplies into the mix and suddenly people wanna take over and run things their way.

20 years into the outbreak,these are the same people you meet in the game,some as enemies,some as neutral/friendlies,but they still have a society with families n all,it's just the way they chose to provide for them is different,there are examples of both violent and "non-violent" (not proactively anyhow) groups in-game.It's really not a black and white situation.There are even conversations about recruiting,so it's not like they kill EVERYONE.

Society can only exist where the basic human needs are covered.

Smoke bombs are a waste of explosives that could have been better spent on making a nail bomb.

Clickers are 50/50 on the bullshit train, for the full ride to bullshit town Look to bloaters those fuckers are hard as balls unless you know to use fire weapons(3 Molotov's usually do the trick).

Treaos Serrare:
Smoke bombs are a waste of explosives that could have been better spent on making a nail bomb.

Clickers are 50/50 on the bullshit train, for the full ride to bullshit town Look to bloaters those fuckers are hard as balls unless you know to use fire weapons(3 Molotov's usually do the trick).

nailbombs use scissors & explosives
I'm playing on hard. And I need the scissors to make shivs and enhanced melee weapons/ As a result the limiting factor for nail bombs are the scissors.
So when I have a crap load of explosive and no scissors I make a smoke bomb.

They are situational. When people know where you are and are looking..smoke bomb and move. Or throw a smoke bomb to disorientate multiple enemies that are standing next to each other and wail on them with a melee weapon. A brick also works but it will only disorientate one guy whilst the other guy next to him keeps shooting you

Phearo:
I feel like this video was made just to bash the game. It's not the greatest game ever made, but what did it do to deserve such hate?

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job? I mean that's kinda what he does, and of course it's important to remember that it's always subjective on his part. I've noticed people tend to get a lot more defensive if he badmouths one of those big titles that is "critically acclaimed" that everyone seems to love. Like remember when he didn't like Super Smash Brothers Brawl and people got so angry he dedicated an episode to addressing that anger?

I didn't see this episode as being any different from any other episode where he highlights the nitpicks and makes them funny except for the fact that this is a game that people are already in love with and probably expected him to say a few glowing things about. But if he didn't like it, he didn't like it, and if anyone here was expecting him to only to be kinda mad that he didn't that's their own problem, not Yahtzee's

Speaking generally of course, not specifically at you.

Pretty sure the actual creators of the game have come out against declaring Joel or Ellie any kind of hero. They acknowledge that this game is about desperate people who commit heinous acts and that they shouldn't be celebrated. The game isn't 'fun' in the strict sense and I don't think anyone was pretending otherwise.

I love Yahtzee, but it's strange to find 5 minutes of only complaints on a game this quality. It's like he approached with the "oh no zombies again" mentality and refused to let the rest of the game penetrate that presumption. This game is hardly about zombies at all. Every place I thought this game would be a cliche', including its ending, it did something else. There's so much refreshing desensification in this game, I don't know why ZP insisted it was the same tired crap. And even if it IS the same tired crap--it really isn't--it's still a better version of it.

Joel's ruthlessness isn't arbitrary, he's 20 years deep into depression. He has infinite anger to take out on life, on humanity, on God.

This isn't butthurt bitching. I don't care how ZP feels about a game as it is generally just entertaining insight from a witty gent who knows the medium well. But so many aspects of games like SH2 are present in TLOU and when something is criticized in one game and condemned in another, it makes it seem like Yahtzee is just throwing taste darts.

gjkbgt:
I can't be bothered to quote/snip all of you guys so if you so whatever

1) humans always have a better chance of survival in groups. Not even going to bother justifying that if you can't work out why then i don't care about your opinion

2) I'm not insanely naive I know about wars and genocide. But both of those phenomena are not due to lack of society or societal rule
the exact opposite is true in-fact. They are about the clash of two societies.

3) The point is scale. Yes less law enforcement means more criminals but major crime is 10/100 000 it'll go p to maybe 100/100 000 that's still almost nothing.
This is doubly true for murder. Crime is motivated by profit these no profit to be made from murder.
And despite what you think about evil everyman is the hero of his own storey some just think there han solo not luke skywalker.
After a zombie invasion human life becomes more treasured even to criminals.

So getting Jumped by murders ten times a mission might be necessary for gameplay but not realistic. i can suspend my disbelief for gameplay.
But when you take that unrealistic premise and try to make it poignant then in my view you can fuck off.

Sexual crime tends to go a bit mad i war-zones so it was going to explore that then ok
but somehow i doubt it

No one is denying that human beings have a better chance of survival in groups (or at least I am not). There is strength in numbers. But that doesn't necessarily mean that forming groups encourages and supports positive human behavior. There are outlaw gangs, there is organized crime, there are military regimes that commit serious human rights violations. In fact being in a group could even encourage negative behavior due to things like peer pressure and mob mentality. And it should be noted that in the game the hunters and murderous military personnel work in groups.

Actually war doesn't necessarily involve only two parties. There can be more as was the case with the two world wars. And said parties aren't necessarily societies as genocide, mass murder, and war can all take place within a single society. But you're missing the point. The reason I brought up war and genocide was to point out the obvious fallacy in your assertion that humans have evolved to not want to kill each other. This is clearly not accurate.

We're not talking about less law enforcement, we're talking about no law enforcement as is often the case with The Last of Us. Or if there is law enforcement the law enforcement that is present has morphed into a group of violent and repressive human rights violators so there arguably might as well be no law enforcement. And sadly this kind of thing can, does, and has happened in real life. Military and law enforcement actually working against the people that they are supposed to be serving and protecting. And actually crime and murder can be and is motivated by all sorts of things such as love, hate, or revenge. Or sometimes it may be all about passion or pleasure. Not just profit. And there can be profit from murder such as in the case of hired assassins for example but that's beside the point. In general murder can be committed simply because the victim has something that the murderer wants. It could be money, it could be the victims life for whatever reason (revenge, passion, etc) or it could be something else like essential supplies needed for survival. Which goes back to the kill or be killed concept. Groups can do this as well as individuals.

And just because a person might see themselves as a hero (which in actuality may or may not be the case depending on the person) that doesn't necessarily make it so. But that too is beside the point.

The point is that you seem to want to believe that the general setting in The Last of Us (or perhaps something similar to said setting) is unrealistic. I'm sorry to say but that's very naive. We probably have no way of knowing for sure what the result would be if a zombie apocalypse decimated the human race. But based on what is known about human history, human behavior, and human nature the setting presented in The Last of Us (or once again perhaps something similar to said setting) is not unrealistic. It's a distinct possibility. It's not guaranteed to happen but it's certainly a very real possibility.

And by the way in The Last of Us the player doesn't get "jumped by murderers" as often as you seem to be implying. You might want to actually experience the game for yourself before making such a call.

Remember when the protagonists accomplished shit that actually helped people? Like (oh here it comes) Gordon Freeman actually helping the citizens of City 17 fight the bad guys and make actual progress to creating freedom and hope and shit? And then Alyx pops in and makes some quip about how impressive your abs look in your Hazard Suit and the bleak despair of it all actually feels a little lightened for a while.

No, it's much more "dark and real" when grim, depressing assholes are grim, depressing assholes because assholes.

TurkeyProphet:

I think the reason the comments are mostly negative is because it wasn't a good summary of the game and a lot of them like me assumed he would talk about the story. He has talked a lot about silent protagonists, just using crappy exposition to tell stories, using idle chatter to build characters, games just throwing characters at us and expecting us to care, bad dialogue in games, using gameplay to tell the story and the proper way to make horror survival game. He even has article recently about stealth games giving us non-violent solutions and he fawned over the storytelling technique of Spec Ops and clearly he appreciated The Walking Dead.

So here we have a game that encourages non-violent stealth, that clearly understands how to implement survival horror and can tell a story very well using techniques he has discussed and what do we get? "Naughty Dog sucks and uh... it's just a generic action adventure like Uncharted".

Yahtzee;'s descriptions and summaries are rarely all that accurate, which feeds my overall point that people love it when it's not about a game they like, then scream and throw poo at him for doing it when it's something they like. It's further puzzling because people beg and cajole him to do these reviews and then are...Surprised when he does it to their games. It's like, "have you ever seen a ZP review before? He's established this as his shtick a long time ago."

And as for it being a stealth game, you know what establishes this as an action adventure game? Just about every piece of promotion and just about every game site I visited that offered classification. Just for the record.

Now, if you dislike inaccurate descriptions, fine. If you're calling out only the ones you like and then accusing Yahtzee of being lazy or "teh bias" in what is his usual form, that's hypocritical and more than a little ridiculous.

Everyone seems to think their favourite games are beyond reproach and gets upset when he mocks them. Well, not everyone. I usually prefer it when he mocks games I like, or at least have played significantly. I can't be alone, just by raw volume of viewers. However, the lion's share appears to be fine with Yahtzee's style and even finds it funny until it's their pet titles on the line. Then it's srs business and Yahztee should be more accurate/nicer.

And honestly, I think we all know better.

Shamanic Rhythm:

Let's not forget the classic "Yahtzee isn't a reviewer, he's a comedian, and he has to make everything seem bad because it's funny."

Ahh yes. Which usually translates into "This is a game I don't like, so it's okay."

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