Jimquisition: Gamer Guys

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very extreme and feticiuos examples you picked that does not really prove anything. Yes, there are silly gamers like that. though its not so much a gamer as a nerd problem (dont mix the two). Nerd culture revolved around them being bullied, by pretending the new wave nerds are the same you are simply ripping apart nerd culture. Now whether this culture was good or not is neither of us decision, but essentialy it would be like saying that republicans are liberals because a few of them have said something that does not conflict with liberals, therefore they are all liverals and those liberals who are truly liberal are just crying babies (the "real gamers"). you cant just rip apart a culture and expect no backlash.

Jimothy Sterling:
Implying I've ever been in there.

but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D

and im not even picking up the example of "raping his wife" back in the old episodes..... (yes i did listen to old episodes what i could find of them (not all available, though it seems internet archive has got them now so maybe a re-listen).

th3dark3rsh33p:
People still think there is an issue with fake gamer girls? Well that sure is interesting. However, it was funny as always Jim.

would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows it way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.

Strazdas:

but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D

I am in a very happy straight marriage.

That doesn't mean *I'm* straight, for there are more sexualities than simply straight and gay.

Jimothy Sterling:

Strazdas:

but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D

I am in a very happy straight marriage.

That doesn't mean *I'm* straight, for there are more sexualities than simply straight and gay.

I see, makes sense now. Thank you for such a swift response.

I don't have any problems with girlgamers or dudebro's or whatever. If you play singleplayer you won't ever meet one.

That said, people posing as something they're not, is something that has always existed. In every fandom or hobby you get that. It's best to just ignore those twats. What's really important is that you yourself enjoy playing the game and don't waste your time and energy on these 'people'.

Edit: Oh and thank God for Jim

*deleted*

Jimothy Sterling:

Strazdas:

but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D

I am in a very happy straight marriage.

That doesn't mean *I'm* straight, for there are more sexualities than simply straight and gay.

Jim Sterling: bending sexualities since 1984.

Silentpony:
Obviously this is a spin on the fake gamer girl malarkey going about. I honestly have a good example of a fake nerd girl. There was a girl in my bio-class last semester who after talking with her for a few days admitted she was a hard-core Star Wars fan, loved the movies, read the books and played all the games. I was genuinely impressed. But then! She says that she and her roommate were going to get a pet ferret. Jokingly I asked if she was going to name it 'Boba Ferret" and she looked at me, dead eyed and asked if that was from something. I said "No, its a spin on Boba Fett's name." "Whose Boba Fett?" And then she moved on, saying they were going to name the little ferret 'Whiskers'.

Now I don't know her reasoning behind making up the Star Wars bit, and I honestly don't care. It was painfully obvious to me she just made up the 'I'm a Star Wars fan' and thats enough for me. Are all fans/gamer girls like this? Hell no. But really, please stop pretending there aren't two catagories. There are and please not men can fall under it too. If it makes you feel better, we can label them 'True Fans/Gamers' and 'Hipster Fans/Gamers'. See? Gender neutral and implies that one group is a fan because they truly enjoy it, while another is doing so ironically or whatever hispters do

Why have to codify anything? Maybe she loved the movies for something other than everyone's favourite bounty hunter. If she says she's a fan she's a fan.

My girlfriend claims to love star trek but I'm pretty sure the last day when we were talking about the latest movie she had't a fucking clue who Gene Roddenberry was. I didn't slap her around the kitchen for not living up to some arbitrary level of Trek-lore.

Take this analogy. Two...MMA fans. One has watched the UFC since it's inception, trains at a Gym, has fought a couple of fights, and studies multiple martial arts. The other started watching last year and only got into it because he thought some of the clothing lines associated with sport were pretty badass, and made him feel badass wearing them, so now he's watching and getting a bit of a kick out of what he's seeing.

Are both these guys even appreciating the same things when sitting down to watch a match? Hell no. Is their fundamental enjoyment out of what they are watching any different?

Hell no. They are both fans.

There are no categories man. There is only...love.

Strazdas:
would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows i oft way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.

Even in the case of that extremely unlikely scenario you gave there, to me the person who is making the irrational distinction between 'real' and 'fake' has alot more to answer for than the person, who must be a girl by default as presumably a male could not possibly err in such a way, who didn't know the main character of a game they'd claimed to have played.

The point is yes there are people who claim to like things more than they do (stones in glass fucking houses btw because I guarantee that all of us have done this at least once, even if only to keep up small talk with a stranger, friend of a friend etc.) but to classify people as cultural fraudsters through some fanciful and completely arbitrary scale to which reasonable looking girls seem to get a 23.58 point auto-deduction from the word go and is both titanically arrogant infinitely more misguided imo.

where are the outraged crowds that demand girls to stay out of gaming?

excluding anonymous youtubers of course.

I've never met a fake gamer girl. I feel like I'm missing out on a REALLY good in-joke here.

So... there is a general suspicion of these people rather than a hate in general or desire to keep them out? That's kinda weird but hardly worth mentioning.

Maybe we're actually talking about the fighting genre's community. That's make complete sense.

Combustion Kevin:
where are the outraged crowds that demand girls to stay out of gaming?

excluding anonymous youtubers of course.

Admittedly this issue is a particular bugbear of mine for various reasons, but yea it's pretty much a thing:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarabrown/2012/03/26/dear-fake-geek-girls-please-go-away/

Articles like this, aren't that uncommon and Googling will give you close to 8million hits, with various memes, blogs etc.

Sexy Devil:
I feel like Jim might've just stumbled upon the real, underlying point of contention for a lot of us. Warning: pity party 2013 post below. It eventually has a point but there's going to be a lot of self-pity prior to it. Just skip to the bolded bit if you want to hear the conclusion that I'm trying to establish.

I have an essential tremor, I'm autistic, I just generally look weird, and I have a myriad of other whacky conditions that are generally mocked in society. Basically what I'm getting at is that I'm the type of nerd that The Big Bang Theory mocks so relentlessly; the type of nerd that a lot of you are so adamant doesn't actually exist. The type of nerd that, no matter how much I try, will just never be accepted in society. If I try to make friends I fail miserably. If I awkwardly sit in the corner and don't speak to anyone then assholes see that and throw garbage at me (not joking). The only way that people will tolerate me is if I do nothing but viciously mock myself for their amusement.

While a lot of you got into gaming and internet culture because you liked it, I got into it because there simply wasn't anywhere else that I could go. And really, the initial idea of nerd culture was that it was a place for people like me who couldn't fit in anywhere else. Now things have changed - nerdy shit is the next big thing, and we've kind of become that irrelevant group who have been sidelined and forgotten about. So when someone like Anita Sarkeesian comes along and says to us "Hey, your refuge from the world might be pretty cool if you change everything about it so that it appeals to everyone else" we get absolutely livid. It's essentially saying that the very people who drove us to this place want to take it for themselves.

And it's not just women that we're hostile to, the frat boy type guys tend to get their fair share of shit on the internet too. The difference is that on the internet you can't really tell if someone's a frat boy, but women are pretty obvious, and seem so foreign to us that they may as well be an entirely different species. Consequently, women in general tend to be generalised as those elusive creatures from high school, and take the brunt of the shit. That "you have to answer these questions correctly or else we hate you" thing is more of a code to make sure that we can feel safe around you. That's what's really at the core of all of it - the misogyny, the fake gamer girl bullshit, all of it. People tend to ironically befriend us because it's funny to them (I know this sounds completely ridiculous, but I swear it has happened to me a whole bunch of times), and we need to be absolutely sure that you're not one of those people.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying that it's entirely rational, but the alternative is that we lose the one place in the world that we can treated like humans, instead of robots who exist to be made fun of. And if society would just stop fucking treating autistics like we're inferior, then maybe we'd stop being so fucking scared of the general populous. This is just me though; I could very well be completely off-base and the people complaining might genuinely be misogynists.

IMPORTANT PART

So what I've quite poorly been trying to say is that the way Jim and other supporters of the feminist movement in gaming have been going about it is quite poor. They're basically just telling us what assholes we are for not supporting it rather than trying to show us that the end result isn't going to be just another place where we don't belong.

And for the record, I had no part in any of the shit flinging going on recently. I've just kind of silently been pissed off about it. I really don't care what happens though, just trying to give insight into why some people might be so strongly opposed to the notion of feminism coming into gaming.

You know what, buddy? I think you hit the nail on the head. You see, why can't people like you make an article on the escapist, rather than people such as Jim, from time to time. Some of the stuff you write hits the point so hard, it fucking HURTS!

Like you, I grew up on gaming, because had nothing else. Growing up in the centre of London, I couldn't leave the house alone, so was forced to occupy myself with video games, whilst my family didn't care for me. I wasn't very social, therefore, my social skills suffered.

Then, growing up in more rural areas, kids in school were just absolute arseholes. Bullied every day, because I preferred to spend my time on video games, and films, rather than talk about girls and football.

My only escapism was video games. I swear, they literally saved my life from despair sometimes. I grew up with all these awesome games, some of which, yes, sexualise women overtly, but on the whole, it wasn't doing any damage to woman, wasn't doing any damage to me, and I wasn't doing any damage to anyone else.

And now, suddenly, over the last 2 or so years, we've had morons from both sides of the pond - people in the gaming industry, and outside of it, telling me I'm some sort of bad guy because I play Dead or Alive, or I point out that video game women are better looking, and have better personalities, than many real women.

How the heck is this our fault?

And you know what, feminists? If you don't like the way games are, then don't play them. I don't like women's bullshit fashion shows, the dumb magazines women read, or books like Fifty Shades of Grey, or Twilight, or like the same cheesy romantic stories or songs they listen to - for the way they misrepresent, and even demonise men.
But should those industries, and the people that like them, change, just because I find them offensive and ridiculous? No, of course they shouldn't. Therefore, why the heck should I and the gaming industry be haggled because people like Jim Sterling get offended by things they really don't need to be offended about?

Terramax:

And now, suddenly, over the last 2 or so years, we've had morons from both sides of the pond - people in the gaming industry, and outside of it, telling me I'm some sort of bad guy because I play Dead or Alive

Please show me that. Please show me where people (as in 'people in the gaming industries' or names that matter) attack the consumers of those games.

I won't even adress the rest of your post. I have no sympathy for your and Sexy Devils position, I don't give a fuck if you had only the nerd culture to go. There is no reason to such hostility towards people who are genuinly interested in this culture just because you don't deem them worthy. There is no reason to keep gaming in a glass bubble and not subject it to any kind of criticism and improvement. There is no reason to fling the same shit towards other people if one paragraph above you complained about the same thing being done to you.

This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :P

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?

WolfCross:

Strazdas:
would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows i oft way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.

Even in the case of that extremely unlikely scenario you gave there, to me the person who is making the irrational distinction between 'real' and 'fake' has alot more to answer for than the person, who must be a girl by default as presumably a male could not possibly err in such a way, who didn't know the main character of a game they'd claimed to have played.

The point is yes there are people who claim to like things more than they do (stones in glass fucking houses btw because I guarantee that all of us have done this at least once, even if only to keep up small talk with a stranger, friend of a friend etc.) but to classify people as cultural fraudsters through some fanciful and completely arbitrary scale to which reasonable looking girls seem to get a 23.58 point auto-deduction from the word go and is both titanically arrogant infinitely more misguided imo.

I know the "extremely unlikely scenario" exists. Sure, the evidence is humorous when it comes from me alone, and i dbout anyone did research for this particular case, but they certainly do exist. and being a girl has nothing to do with it, there are males who act the same. except the only thing people seem to claim dont exist are female variant, even jim admited they exist.
You seem to not distinguist a person who has perhaps done it to keep up small talk with somone and a person who goes around touting you about it demanding i admit that "He is a nerd".
i got abosolutely nothing agaisnt girls playing games. i do however dislike, and for a reason, people who pretend to do so to get attention, be them male or female. Its just that female ones are much more in the spotlight now, because people are sexist this way.

Sure, there are a lot of people who are ready to attack anything with tits. like the athene youtube videos (thier shit videos but thats not really relevant now). half the comments seem to be "you got big tits" or "show your tits". then again she does cover almost half of the screen of a gaming commentary with a webcam pointed at her tits, who seem to always be barely covered (seriusoly, she done this for like 8 games, i didnt bother checking deeper), so the intentions are also questionable.

neonit:
This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :P

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?

B-b-but, neonit-san, things like that are like, totally perpetuate rape culture and stuff! S-s-stop it, or put up a trigger warning f-for mansplaining! Mulders are always right, and totally not hypocrites!

Strazdas:
very extreme and feticiuos

Since I'm quoting you anyway, it's "facetious." Not a slam or anything. Just trying to be helpful.

Nerd culture revolved around them being bullied, by pretending the new wave nerds are the same you are simply ripping apart nerd culture.

I hope you're not pretending all "old school" nerds were bullied, because that's just false.

Now whether this culture was good or not is neither of us decision, but essentialy it would be like saying that republicans are liberals because a few of them have said something that does not conflict with liberals, therefore they are all liverals and those liberals who are truly liberal are just crying babies (the "real gamers"). you cant just rip apart a culture and expect no backlash.

Republicans are liberals from 50 years ago.. :p Have you ever looked at the top 50 conservative rock songs of all times? It includes such conservative groups as the Beach Boys (gay friendly, except Mike Love), the Beatles (hippies who loved the reefer), and The Who (who wrote apolitical songs they tried to co-opt).

but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D

Jim's already said something, but I only think it's fair to point out he's openly stated in the past that he is bisexual. However, I'm baffled that anyone could think the only alternative was lying. A little disturbed, too.

would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows it way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.

I'd call her what she is: a liar.

Edited to clarify: partially tongue in cheek.

Sexy Devil:

While a lot of you got into gaming and internet culture because you liked it, I got into it because there simply wasn't anywhere else that I could go.

And while you may hate that others are included, I personally hate the notion that this is what gaming culture has to be. Especially since it's never entirely been true. Just the irony that virtually from its inception as widespread technology, the internet has had people screaming about "NERDS" should be a tip-off.

So when someone like Anita Sarkeesian comes along and says to us "Hey, your refuge from the world might be pretty cool if you change everything about it so that it appeals to everyone else" we get absolutely livid.

So livid that you don't even care that she didn't say that.

Please, there's enough wrong with Anita's statements that you don't need to lie to make more. And if you don't have any pertinent criticisms, stop co-opting our legit criticisms with your "nerd culture."

See what I did there?

grey_space:

Why have to codify anything? Maybe she loved the movies for something other than everyone's favourite bounty hunter. If she says she's a fan she's a fan.

Impossible! Everyone loves Baby Fatt! Han Solo sends him Life Day cards!

This is an interesting point of the phenomena, though. People drop it at one question, really, which is annoying. On a bad day, I could probably fail that. In part because I think a guy who gets like three minutes of screen time and fewer than five lines shouldn't be fellated like he is and in part because I'm a space cadet. Doesn't change the fact that I was practically immersed in Star Wars (and Trek) since I was like, two. I come from a long line of nerds.

You either have to have ALL THE KNOWLEDGE or you are assumed to not be a true fan.

Terramax:
I've never met a fake gamer girl. I feel like I'm missing out on a REALLY good in-joke here.

Unless you count PR, most people will never meet one. That's part of the joke. The term is tossed around with such frequency because the standards are ridiculous.

Lightknight:
So... there is a general suspicion of these people rather than a hate in general or desire to keep them out? That's kinda weird but hardly worth mentioning.

Maybe we're actually talking about the fighting genre's community. That's make complete sense.

No, it's pretty much the broader community.

As outraged as people were at that neckbeard who sniffed his teammate, nothing he said was that far out of line with what girls are normally told to deal with or get out.

My test is "Whats the most annoying mob to fight in Hello Kitty Roller Rescue?"
Gamers play the game not the cover

neonit:
This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :P

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?

It does cut two ways, but it looks particularly ridiculous when cutting the "other way" requires relying on fals equivalence.

Zachary Amaranth:

neonit:
This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :P

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?

It does cut two ways, but it looks particularly ridiculous when cutting the "other way" requires relying on fals equivalence.

Thing is, if you want to point out the stupidity of other "way of thinking", people tend to chose the most extreme cases. Every time someone points out the immature "tru gamers!111" who dont want girls in their tree houses, another person could point out the extremes on the other side. That would include feminists who believe that everyone out there is doing their best to oppress the women, support rape and genital mutilation on males etc etc etc.

In short, my point is - both sides have idiots that tend to overreact and act like a bunch of whiny kids, those people should be ignored. What media tends to do, is put an effing megaphone in front of them, because that generates views.

Also, i fail to see the "false equivalence", could you explain what you mean?

Terramax:

Sexy Devil:
~super snip~

~super snip~

Well, one way to think about it is that internet culture and gaming culture are subsets of the overarching "nerd culture" which seems to be moving in on their territory and becoming what is popular these days. Being something that has become popular, it has developed into something that can appeal to wider audiences of people (and diluted in a few places unfortunately.)

I sympathize with both of your plights and I'm sure someone in the vast reaches of the internet you will (or most likely have, since you are here already) found a place to be accepting of who you are and whatever choice in games you like.
I can't help your situation out in the real world, nor can I truly understand whatever you went through, but I can talk to you through here.

I will also agree that the feminism has been going kinda strong, especially in north america where double standards are holding a lot of social power. But I think it's also something that is in some ways needed, due to a problem with how girls who are legitimately being assaulted/oppressed/undervalued/etc, for just being themselves.

There are some people who take the feminism torch and burn anything that could in anyway "objectify" women, using the term more as a buzzword than an issue. Those people damage the movement more than helping it. Those are the type of people who may tell you that you are assholes for liking a particular game or your personal tastes in people.

But not everyone who supports feminism is trying to take down men or make fun of you. I can only advise that people who do should not be fought against but simply ignored. I'm sure most of Anita's popularity has come from just people taking arguing about her and drawing attention to her.

Ultimately, this is culture thing and not something meant to single any of you out, so you are not at fault. But also the whole affair is, at it's core, just trying to make everyone better and more accepting human beings on both sides of the fence, not just this side. I know a lot of us have a little social ineptitude to various degrees, but I'd be a fool to not want to improve myself in any way, even a little. Sticking to the old community I know is comfortable, but maybe a bigger one wouldn't hurt.

neonit:
Also, i fail to see the "false equivalence", could you explain what you mean?

http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/

JarinArenos:

neonit:
Also, i fail to see the "false equivalence", could you explain what you mean?

http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/

Well, that's interesting.
Read this:
http://just-smith.tumblr.com/post/52991271199/male-superheroes-are-never-objectified

Quote: "This picture is an example of a popular argument. It has 55k notes, and text posts making the same point probably have even more."

JarinArenos:

neonit:
Also, i fail to see the "false equivalence", could you explain what you mean?

http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/

Oh yes, its a cool comic about the difference between male power fantasy and sexualization of women in gaming.
Now, how does this relate to the issue at hand? Because i honestly see no line between what i said before and this comic.

Correct me if I'm wrong Jim, but I think a lot of people are unaware of the huge shitstorm that happened on your Destroctoid article regarding a Legend of Zelda game revolving around Zelda.

Was filled with a lot of people claiming that it would be a bunch of croc poop and what not.

I think a disclaimer either at the end of your video or in the description would do a lot to clear up the confusion.

Zachary Amaranth:

Lightknight:
So... there is a general suspicion of these people rather than a hate in general or desire to keep them out? That's kinda weird but hardly worth mentioning.

Maybe we're actually talking about the fighting genre's community. That's make complete sense.

No, it's pretty much the broader community.

As outraged as people were at that neckbeard who sniffed his teammate, nothing he said was that far out of line with what girls are normally told to deal with or get out.

Well, our culture hasn't exactly been known for social aptness, particularly around women. We do have extremely anti-social or just plain awkward members in our ranks. Women are going to have to expect to run into those kinds of people when at nerd-centric events but I don't think there's a general overall culture that believes women must allow themselves to be molested by strangers in some way.

I do think there's a lot of bitterness that some people are holding onto. Like when they find out that just being a nerd isn't what is keeping them from finding a woman now that women are becoming more common in our culture. It's a lot easier to have something to blame like the kind of things you're passionate about but things get more difficult when you've got to accept that your social awkwardness is to blame. So when a guy at a conferrence is the 100th+ guy to walk up to a girl (who has been badgered the whole conferrence because she's a girl) and gets a cold shoulder then these are the kinds of things they think. It's not much different from when a guy dismisses a girl as just being a lesbian if she rejects him even though the kind of mentality that would require that kind of thinking is much more likely to blame.

But do you generally have evidence that our culture as a whole is particularly anti-female gamer? I feel like this would be more some vocal minorities who were personally upset in some way. I only say that because I haven't personally run into this kind of individual and I feel like I would have if it were at all common. Then again, I likely wouldn't befriend individuals who would be that arbitrarily bigotted.

grey_space:

Snip

I'm sorry, I have to disagree entirely. The whole reason we use the label 'Fan' is because its supposed to mean something. If we let people who are not fans, pure and simple, walk around claiming they are and watering down the word, then whats the point in calling yourself a fan anyway? Or indeed arguing anything is truly nothing mattered? Your analogy was faulty because both people are still watching. A better analogy would be those same two people talking about MMA, and the true fan asks if the other saw the last broadcast. The hipster says he loves it, but couldn't believe the Great Dane won best in show because the Border Collie was clearly the superior dog. Get it? They're not talking about the same thing!

Personally I don't watch Dr. Who and more importantly I don't claim to! If a friend asks me if I saw this episode or that, I say no I'm not a fan. I don't go into an attention grabbing song and dance number about how the Doctor and Will Smith uploaded a virus to the Alien mothership and the President led an fighter-jet attack. People would call bullshit, as well they should. If someone like me can call themselves a Dr. Who fan having never seen an episode and indeed never intending to, then no one is a fan of anything. Fandom does not exist anymore because we have dropped the definition of 'fan'. Without it, everyone is just dom.

Sorry Jim, but this was just bad this week. The satire was laid on too think and only serves to show the opposite of what your intending. I'm presuming this is a defence of "Geek Girls" rather than a condemnation, and the thing is... you're wrong Jim. The problem I, and many others, have with fake geek girls isn't the girls bit, it's the fake bit. I love geek girls and gamer girls, I know quite a few and they're great geeky girls who share a lot of my hobbies. Some I have an entirely platonic relationship with, others it's something more. I've even had sex with some of them, (I know, shocker, geeks have sex). Very occasionally, we've even dated long term. "Geek" as a sub-culture is entirely gender neutral now and I like that, but fake geek girls do exist.

Fake geek girls are people that feign interest in the subculture in order to manipulate people, particularly men, into doing something... usually buying something or paying for something. Occasionally it's done by women as an ego boost because geeky guys tend to be less superficial and they outnumber the women quite significantly, that means (to put this bluntly), ugly and fat women get attention amongst geeks that they wouldn't get anywhere else. Go on call me a sexist if it makes you feel better, but it's fucking true and you know it.

Like I say, it's not the girl part I have the problem with, it's the fake part. If fake geek guys actually did exist as you satirically claim in your video. I'd hate them just as much.

I'd also like to point out that I have no issue with casual gamers either. If I meet a girl who isn't really much of a gamer, she maybe plays one or two games but that's about it, probably owns a Wii (and that's her first console). That kind of person... great, she'll be at least accepting of my hobbies even if she doesn't share them, and maybe we have other things in common. We could still quite easily be friends, or should it be an option, more. Casual is fine. It's when that same casual girl then puts on thick frame glasses and takes photos of herself on Facebook captioned "such a nerd", because she's watched one episode of Star Trek this one time. That's irritating simply because it's a lie. It's not especially harmful, it just pisses me off, just like how people posting pictures of Neil DeGrasse Tyson on facebook probably don't "fucking love science". I really hate posers. It's superficial crap. Just be yourself for fuck sake and stop trying to make "geek" into a damn fashion statement.

That's my position, and largely the position of everyone else who complains about fake geek girls. Don't strawman us again Jim, I expect better from you.

Ok, all of you who believe the fake gamer girl thing, ask yourself this, and actually think about it.

Are these fake women MORE of a problem than female members of our community getting a nasty grilling for no reason other than their gender? Are they more of an issue than the hostility thrown at anyone female for speaking about games without sitting the written exam?

I really freaking doubt it.

Sexy Devil:
While a lot of you got into gaming and internet culture because you liked it, I got into it because there simply wasn't anywhere else that I could go

You could have gone into academia, perhaps become a research scientist or something? I'm pretty sure Stephen Hawking doesn't catch a lot of shit from his colleagues for his disabilities and quirks.

I'm curious as to why you thought gaming and "internet culture" was your only refuge. You could have read books, like we did in the old days.

And really, the initial idea of nerd culture was that it was a place for people like me who couldn't fit in anywhere else.

I don't agree. Nerds are simply people who are intelligent and have strong (often obsessive) interests in things. I don't really believe in the concept of "nerd culture" - nerds are individuals with a whole variety of different interests. That's what makes them special. Conflating them all into a single culture is problematic.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying that it's entirely rational, but the alternative is that we lose the one place in the world that we can treated like humans, instead of robots who exist to be made fun of. And if society would just stop fucking treating autistics like we're inferior, then maybe we'd stop being so fucking scared of the general populous.

A good start might be treating other people like humans, rather than stereotypes such as "girls" or "frat-boys," etc. You didn't like it when people threw shit at you, so why do it to others? Sure, it's difficult to lead by example, but people who do so, tend to end up better over the long-term. People will respect and like you for acting decently, even if it doesn't get immediate results.

I really don't care what happens though, just trying to give insight into why some people might be so strongly opposed to the notion of feminism coming into gaming.

I don't think it's so much about "feminism coming into gaming" as being about how gamers should stop acting like such dicks. There's no feminism required to do that.

Phasmal:

Are these fake women MORE of a problem than female members of our community getting a nasty grilling for no reason other than their gender? Are they more of an issue than the hostility thrown at anyone female for speaking about games without sitting the written exam?

I agree that we shouldn't examine female newcomers on their fandom knowledge just because of their gender. I think we should have exams for every newcomer, whether they're male or female.

Miroluck:

Phasmal:

Are these fake women MORE of a problem than female members of our community getting a nasty grilling for no reason other than their gender? Are they more of an issue than the hostility thrown at anyone female for speaking about games without sitting the written exam?

I agree that we shouldn't examine female newcomers on their fandom knowledge just because of their gender. I think we should have exams for every newcomer, whether they're male or female.

Who said anything about newcomers? I still get the grilling as if I were a newcomer.
And I'm really sad that people think loving games needs an entrance exam. How is someone supposed to learn if they are shunned for not knowing enough?

Phasmal:

Miroluck:

Phasmal:

Are these fake women MORE of a problem than female members of our community getting a nasty grilling for no reason other than their gender? Are they more of an issue than the hostility thrown at anyone female for speaking about games without sitting the written exam?

I agree that we shouldn't examine female newcomers on their fandom knowledge just because of their gender. I think we should have exams for every newcomer, whether they're male or female.

Who said anything about newcomers? I still get the grilling as if I were a newcomer.

That's unfair. Entrance quiz would help with that too - if person who passed it would recieve some kind of certificate or ID or something.

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