Jimquisition: Gamer Guys

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Where can I nominate this video for "best visual effects" for this years Academy Awards?

Boi Gamurz~! ;D

This was... an interesting episode.

Monxeroth:

B-b-baka Jim!
I-it's not like i..i enjoyed the..episode or anything...stupid!

J-Just take my comment already, o-okay?! Gosh...!

Obviously this is a spin on the fake gamer girl malarkey going about. I honestly have a good example of a fake nerd girl. There was a girl in my bio-class last semester who after talking with her for a few days admitted she was a hard-core Star Wars fan, loved the movies, read the books and played all the games. I was genuinely impressed. But then! She says that she and her roommate were going to get a pet ferret. Jokingly I asked if she was going to name it 'Boba Ferret" and she looked at me, dead eyed and asked if that was from something. I said "No, its a spin on Boba Fett's name." "Whose Boba Fett?" And then she moved on, saying they were going to name the little ferret 'Whiskers'.

Now I don't know her reasoning behind making up the Star Wars bit, and I honestly don't care. It was painfully obvious to me she just made up the 'I'm a Star Wars fan' and thats enough for me. Are all fans/gamer girls like this? Hell no. But really, please stop pretending there aren't two catagories. There are and please not men can fall under it too. If it makes you feel better, we can label them 'True Fans/Gamers' and 'Hipster Fans/Gamers'. See? Gender neutral and implies that one group is a fan because they truly enjoy it, while another is doing so ironically or whatever hispters do

hah! I agree, the groovy special effects were magnificent, should have added some moar twilight zone business.

And about the topic, it is true... As Legion, I expected the episode to be about that odd focus on Frat Boy audiences from some developers...But hey! That's still due for some other week.
Anyhow, that was quite funny, I suppose the real conflict comes down to the fact that a lot of people in general are insecure, and they can't believe their most obscure likes are shared by other people, so they tend to be dubious about it when it presents itself.

But to be honest this competitiveness into the most "hardcorest geekness" or extreme fandom is everywhere. Often when someone loves something very profoundly, they feel that the object is in some way "theirs" and theirs only. We see it manifested in gender conflicts here, but you can observe it in bands (I knew them before they were mainstream), movies (I watched her artschool thesis film), etc...

I suppose that as much as I don't share that need, playing devil's advocate, I understand how people feel that they "struggled" to bring up a certain medium, author, genre, etc. So they become defensive when their love becomes collective.

Likewise when I began playing some competitive games like Dota or LoL, I started seeing how terribly poisonous people are to anything other than their very own personal experience. It's not even "prove that you are a gamer" anymore, it becomes "prove that you are a gamer like me or you are an idiot". And that is really silly, that we need to generate these safe niches where no one but a select few are allowed in.

However, it's hard to shake that silliness, I was once at a friend's house and I mentioned that I was developing games, and a girl who I had not met before became quite interested, telling me that she loved games, but I didn't pay much attention, I was immediately dismissive, I thought to myself: yeah I'm sure you love Mario, Call of Duty and Angry Birds. But later when we did actually start talking about games, she brought up Okami, and Shadow of the Colossus, I was in awe. We spoke for a good while, and although after that time I never saw her again I suppose that brief interaction did show me that I was not as devoid of prejudice as I prided myself to be... and if there's anything that Disney has taught us is that things aren't always as they seem haha.

As I see it now, I don't know anyone who has spent the +1000 hrs I have on Disgaea, but I would hardly call that a boon, it's more of a problem. Good on anyone who hasn't circled that far down that vortex. The thing is, true colours come out in time, and even when you least expect it you can be surprised.
Moreover, if anyone DOES happen to be a phoney, well that's a shame but it's really their problem to deal with in the long run.

PS: are we talking of Shadow Hearts Covenant, From the new world, or the original one?
and how fabulous were the stud cards? Oh god I was so young... and they did that to me.

and now I wait to see when you throw an explanatory video up for people who didn't get it.

oh, and since you asked ...

Amon
Tirawa
Dark Seraphim
Tatan'ka
Fides

feauxx:

Therumancer:
Awesome special FX Jim. :)

That said, after I got done laughing I decided I'd toss out something similar to my usual comments about the overall point of this episode.

Like it or not there are differences between guys and girls as far as perception and manipulation goes. In general dudes can be manipulated through media by an attractive girl, or the belief they are dealing with one, far more easily than girls can be manipulated by hot guys. This is why you see so many companies using spokesmodels, filling events with party girls (or booth babes), or in the case of Japan doing things like getting female voice operators to talk in higher pitched tones of voice (attractive for the culture apparently).

The reaction to female gamers is what it is because of how saturated the market has become with women trying to manipulate guys, to the point where it's become expected. This goes so far as to get girls who pretend to hang out at social events, cons, etc... to create a scene and to also lead guys in specific directions. You even see it at Renfaires and such where the people running booths will hire the cutest girls they can get to walk the grounds showing off whatever they are selling, and pretending to be other tourists. When you go to conventions, and not just gaming ones, you see the same exact thing going on. That's not paranoia either, I've met a good number of women who have done this kind of thing. As a matter of public record companies like Ubisoft formed things like the "Frag Dolls" as a
promotional gimmick to sell their products, which is a variation on this.

On a more personal level a lot of girls, especially young girls, learn at an early age to manipulate guys. Whether it's football or video games, a lot of girls feign interest in whatever guys like to get things out of them. This can be anything from a "Camwhore" trying to get guys to buy her things off her Amazon gift list, to a girl trying to get you to do her homework or be her personal free taxi service.

Geeks, by being social outcasts who really wish they could have hot girlfriends, become prime targets for manipulation. Once you get burned a bunch of times, paranoia of a sort sets in, and it's a fairly justified paranoia.

One thing I will point out that rarely enters into these discussion is that the less attractive and/or more freaky a girl is, the more likely she is to be accepted as a gamer or within the geek culture. As a general rule, if a girl could be hanging off the arm of some Jock or successful/socially apt dude, the more suspicious a geek is likely to be of her ultimate motives.

Obscure gaming questions tend to be "touring questions" in cases like this. Sort of like what a real lesbian might do to root out guys pretending to be lesbians online (lol). It's less about there being a correct answer, or an actual test of knowledge, but rather a matter of reaction. To give an example, if someone comes up to a real geek and asks a question about some obscure Japanese video game, he might not know the answer but the way he inquires about it, and mentions ones that he has plays is what is going to make him genuine. When it comes to some geek girl being asked say "what is your favorite Shadow Hearts transformation?" (if such came up) it's less about her having to have played that game to be real, but more about whether she becomes defensive. A "proper" answer for someone that was ignorant would be to say "I haven't played that is it similar to [insert other RPG where you combine and transform characters, like say Soul Fusions in Persona or Demon Combining in other SMT games or whatever)" or something similar that fits
into the conversation.

To be honest one of the reasons so many people (including me) laugh at pics with geek girls making snappy comebacks "Oh I haven't read the entire run of Batman, but neither have you" is that they miss the point in the course of trying to defend the trend. If you like Batman you might not know every bloody obscure thing he's ever done (like say using a Bat-Monster truck loaded with fully automatic tranquilizer guns) but if your a serious fan you can turn something you didn't know into quite a conversation and that's kind of the point.

Ah well, I doubt many people read this far, and very few will agree with me, but that's my two cents.

When it comes to the acceptance of geek girls of all stripes and physical apperance into the "community" (such as it is) it's not something that can be forced. It will happen over time, but understand that the social intertia of decades upon decades of geeks being manipulated by cute girls is not something that is going to disappear comparatively overnight because more girls are gaming and discovering/getting involved in fandom for real.

Did you just use a whole lot of words to basically say girls are lying, manipulating, untrustworthy extortionists while simultaneously insulting men for being spineless weaklings who's willpower evaporates the moment they see a girl, making them vulnerable to be wrapped around any girls evil little finger?

Yes, he did. Ignore him.

Jim is funnier and more interesting to watch when he mixes the clown acts with some serious bits.
This extended act doesn't seem to work for him. The hater is not played convincingly enough to be genuinely offensive or silly and the scene lacks the punchlines that could've made it witty.
The show would be more interesting if Jim had controversial opinions again. Troll the Escapist hard like.

Interesting fact: This phenomenon of poo-pooing 'gamer girls' is not only something that goes beyond video-games, it goes beyond gender politics.

Let me tell you about a hokey team called the Chicago Blackhawks. You may have heard of them. They won two Stanley Cups in the last 4 years and are the hottest thing in Chicago right now. But not too long ago, they were literally unwatchable. I don't just mean they were terrible (they were) but the owner Bill Wirtz was driving fans away. Home games were blacked out, zero fan outreached occurred and by the mid 2000s only a few die-hards came to the United Center to see the Blackhawks.

Then Bill died, and before he was even in the ground, his son Rocky was taking measures to reverse decades of damage to the franchise, both in terms of team success and fan base. By 2009 the Blackhawks were back in the playoffs, and folkds were coming out the the United Center to see the Hawks in record numbers.

And those die-hard fans? They were pissed.

They were pissed that they had endured decades of awefulness only to now have packs of fair-weather fans driving up the price of tickets. They were pissed that games were on TV only to be surrounded by a bunch of idiots who didn't know a damn thing about hockey.

That resentment has faded now. The new fans helped by educating themselves about the game, and the old-guard can now see what having a broad base of support brings to their team (in comparison, the 1991 Hawks made it to the Finals, and no one but themselves gave a shit).

So I think that the resentment of newcomers will play out. Admittedly, the gender-politics angle is going to complicate the process, but when the benefits of a broader user base begin to be realized (like a wider variety of games) I think this attitude will fade.

Escapist is a very nice reprieve from this bullshit.

Sadly the moment I browse into other websites like Kotaku....*sigh*

I actually agree with most of Jim's satirical points. Geeks have finally carved out some of their own spaces, and when people treat those spaces as essentially a theme park, it's quite frustrating. Many of us did get bullied for being geeks, and one of the big escapes for us, were video games. But we didn't just passively consume, we actually got into the meat of it, and started having a deeper understanding of what makes games good and bad. For instance, what elements are critical to good map design? Generally speaking, some axis of symmetry is an easy way to make sure that one team doesn't get screwed hard. But do Farmville players care about issues like natural dialogue trees? In general, no.

Having someone who clearly doesn't care about your hobby come in and feign an interest just to get attention is pretty much always annoying.

Darmani:

PuckFuppet:
I'm regularly into all sorts of things I have no actual interest in, like theatre or Downton Abbey, if the girl I'm hitting on in that moment happens to be into something that I can easily bullshit an interest in. It works too... so why is somehow a bad thing?

if you do it and bullshitting you are 20/80 likely to be called a pick up artist

I'm regularly called a "gentleman" for actually taking the time to listen, regardless of my intent.

My point was to illustrate the fact that both sexes engage in what was being the described in the post I responded to as a "female" or "girl" thing. If you believe that the response to a male doing what I described is for that person to be referred to as a "pick-up artist" in a derogatory sense, similar to the way some people are called "fake gamer girls", then so be it.

In all honesty though I find it hard to imagine a situation whereby two individuals conversing about their likes and dislikes could not include some amount of bullshitting or feigning of interest from either party. It isn't some sort of terrible plague that afflicts single women in bars nor is it some kind of dark looming terror that is invading the "exclusive male fun" space, it is common social interaction. In many cases it is even considered to be both a courtesy and to be very flattering.

EDIT: Or maybe I'm just a sociopath!

I dont usually type lol but LOL.
I still think its weird that this is a thing.
What it really comes down to, the actual source (and this is in our genes so there's always going to be dbags like that) is that some guys can't get over the fact that all girls don't want to sleep with them. Of course teenage hormones make something like that worse too, that's not to say that there aren't grown men in their 30s who are total dbags too. Some people never grow up.

The attitude of guys trying to test and prove that girls aren't really gamers is very alive and well online, and is especially thriving at conventions.

I have a hand of the king pin on my purse, and at the ottawa comic con I had guys not even trying to hide that they were quizzing me on what actually happens in the series, including asking several things which had I not read the books yet would have been super spoilerific.

And then talking to some women who actually do cosplay, the amount of questioning they can get as to whether or not she "really" knows who character she's portraying is, is insane.

Yeah, it's an issue Jim's gone over before.
But it still exists.

Is anyone else sad that we didn't get any footage of Kane when talking to NOD about his plans during the last segment? I think Kane is way more charismatic then that Killzone dude who is clearly a Kane impersonator cause he's a bald charismatic middelagedish man.

I miss those days of gaming...

Great video otherwise besides the lack of Kane!

Peace Through Power!!

feauxx:

Did you just use a whole lot of words to basically say girls are lying, manipulating, untrustworthy extortionists while simultaneously insulting men for being spineless weaklings who's willpower evaporates the moment they see a girl, making them vulnerable to be wrapped around any girls evil little finger?

Nope, you might want to read it more carefully.

All I've done is point out social trends. With trends you cannot say "this applies to all people" merely enough for it to create the current problems.

In short, enough girls manipulate guys, or are used to manipulate guys, especially those socially awkward enough to constantly immerse themselves in deep escapism, that it makes guys paranoid. Most guys get burned by this, especially nerds, and then stop falling for it but become paranoid, which presents a barrier when you see women becoming genuinely interested in geek culture.

The point isn't so much that this is "right" but that you have to understand why it exists, it's actually the result of a defensive mechanism more than a sense of elitism when you get down to it. That's the crucial problem with Jim's analysis.

Rather than QQing about it on the internet, I think the real solution here is simply time. Girls will break into geekdom and be accepted once geek-boys learn to be a lot less paranoid about it. Screaming about elitism isn't really relevant, this isn't a "No Girls Allowed" sign hung on a clubhouse, but people who have been trained to believe that any girl who is interested in them must have some angle.

Please also note that on a lot of levels this is more insulting towards your typical gamer than girls if you really want to read insult into it, as a key element is people who are by and large social outcasts to begin with. Again not all hardcore gamers ARE totally maladjusted nerds, but enough are for this trend to exist.

PirateRose:
[

Um, I thought geeks guys spent decades upon decades of being ignored and shunned by cute girls. Thought the whole stick was they couldn't get any attention, even fake attention, and the booth babe thing was just a recent development in the last decade as video games became more mainstream. I mean video games went from being a strictly nerdy thing to a dudebro thing joining ranks of cars and sports in the wider male culture. Thus a sudden idea even within gaming culture that casual players play Call of Duty and Halo.

And honestly, it's not a problem with women being in the advertising and promotion of products. It's the marketing teams that believes you guys fall for it. If the women had any real choice when it came to their careers, they'd pick being on the fashion runway over being sexual harassed all day. You guys act like you can't control yourselves when you see a pretty face, the marketers who are dominated by men that think they know everything are the ones that manipulates and abuses you. Your refusal to think, oh she's attractive, check out her butt real quick, now I'll go on my way to the next booth because what she's selling isn't interesting and I know she's just working and doing her job and has to smile because she'll get fired otherwise and she probably doesn't want me to harass her period, especially if I'm not interested in the product she is presenting.

Well, ignored and shunned unless they want something. Take a look at the whole "Camwhore" thing that has become infamous on the internet, where the whole schtick is for girls to get to know geeky guys entirely by remote with no chance of meeting them and convince them to give them things. Do all girls do this? No, but it's happened enough geeks have reactively become paranoid, and always look for the angle here, and think "is this person just trying to get to know me so I will do something for them".

Speaking in terms of stereotypes, the cute girls shunning nerds is only part of it, as the cute girls also stereotypically try and get the geeks to do their homework, cover for them, or take a fall for them. Are all girls this manipulative? Of course not. But again, it's a trend that has bred paranoia among those who are on the fringes of society to begin with. When you become rejected for being a geek, it becomes unusually for those who rejected you (which are average people, not just the exceptional ones) to seek out your company unless they want to temporarily make use of you.

... and again, it doesn't matter if it works when it comes to the booth babes and stuff, the intent is obvious and by being obvious it again contributes to that paranoia.

My entire point here is that your dealing less with geek elitism more than being defensive.

Darmani:
[Because we're sure to have plenty of people agreeing gating gamer girls or.. anyone to the hobby is not cool I'll manually thank this.
Stil the reaction to this situation is less "test her" and "suspect her" and more "okay accept and listen" play your doubts close to the chest and open up with dialogue that's inviting a level of discussion you're interested in and of course listen to theirs if it might be of interest.
DON'T insult her, don't mention her dress, ask and don't accuse or just observe (not creeper or at least don't get caught) so you know if she's knew or perhaps familiar and something of a personality.

Yeah guy gamers insecurity and exclusive shunning. BAD stop doing that.
.

The point is that it's an understandable reaction and not something people are just going to shelve in the compatively short time we've seen girls genuinely interested in geek culture. A lifetime of being shunned and rejected does not go away overnight, nor does what decades of social trends have done to the psyche.

The thing is that girls are not being "vetted" out of elitism but as a defensive reaction, something that I think needs to be understood without mockery before you can even seriously address this kind of issue.

It's also not nice, but girls are the comparative newcomers to this arena, and like any newcomers to anything instant acceptance isn't going to happen.

As I've said a few times here, the point isn't so much that it's right, but rather me presenting the issue as it is. As I've also pointed out I think it's the kind of thing that will go away with time, and only with time, all the internet ranting in the world won't help.

It might not be much of a relief, but if current trends continue I'd imagine we'll see gaming be a lot more co-ed by 2030. I think it will take a few generations of youthful interest to adapt. Those who have been beaten down into certain ways of thinking aren't going to change overall, and rather tend to make individual exceptions. However if things continue the way your going you'll see kids coming up from the beginning with both boys and girls being genuinely interested, you'll also increasingly see a trend for "geekdom" to be less shunned, and over time you'll see assimilation even if this doesn't comfort anyone now.

Brilliant satire, put the gender discussion in a whole other viewpoint. Hopefully people who malign "girl gamers" without understanding the hateful repercussions of their actions will feel a little more ashamed after they see their rhetoric through the opposite lens, but that's not very likely. It's more likely that they'll just call Sterling a "liberal feminist shill" or something to that degree.

Jim's argument would only make sense if girl gamers were complaining about guurl gamers. At best it's a video criticising casuals, at worse it's idiocy that ignores why some guys don't like casuals who also happen to be girls.

Silentpony:
Obviously this is a spin on the fake gamer girl malarkey going about. I honestly have a good example of a fake nerd girl. There was a girl in my bio-class last semester who after talking with her for a few days admitted she was a hard-core Star Wars fan, loved the movies, read the books and played all the games. I was genuinely impressed. But then! She says that she and her roommate were going to get a pet ferret. Jokingly I asked if she was going to name it 'Boba Ferret" and she looked at me, dead eyed and asked if that was from something. I said "No, its a spin on Boba Fett's name." "Whose Boba Fett?" And then she moved on, saying they were going to name the little ferret 'Whiskers'.

Now I don't know her reasoning behind making up the Star Wars bit, and I honestly don't care. It was painfully obvious to me she just made up the 'I'm a Star Wars fan' and thats enough for me. Are all fans/gamer girls like this? Hell no. But really, please stop pretending there aren't two catagories. There are and please not men can fall under it too. If it makes you feel better, we can label them 'True Fans/Gamers' and 'Hipster Fans/Gamers'. See? Gender neutral and implies that one group is a fan because they truly enjoy it, while another is doing so ironically or whatever hispters do

Sounds like she liked you and made some shit up. people do it all the time. Had a dude on rollerblades at sonic give me my food and somehow the topic of videogames came up. he asked "so what is the latest gaming happpenings?" lol I said "bioshock infinite" He then went on about how he just HATED that game and the music. lol. and we parted ways as we should have! lmao

also is this a slow week or somethin? I guess anita sarkeesian forgot to have a bowl movement and we have no controversies to go on eh? lol

WaitWHAT:
"Guys leading me on with their muscular buns and slick calf muscles."
"using their supple, smooth bodies and elegant nipples to sell themselves on sex appeal"

Jim....it's time for you to come out of there.

image

(<3)

Jim could never fit in there. He's too.....Awesome! Yeah, awesome....
<_<

>_>

Anyway, xD Ya killed me again Jim! You really don't do thing half way, do you?

Thank God for you Jim. (And I don't just say that because it makes me look like a Geek Boy. I also really mean it. ;D)

Yeah, my cousin only plays LoL and COD these days. He's a faker.

Mahoshonen:

So I think that the resentment of newcomers will play out. Admittedly, the gender-politics angle is going to complicate the process, but when the benefits of a broader user base begin to be realized (like a wider variety of games) I think this attitude will fade.

Yeah, but the thing is, I've been playing video-games for 20 years. But since I have boobs people assume I only got into the hobby recently and only play Farmville.
Pretty much all fandoms have that whole 'you're not a true fan, GRRRR!' attitude to some extent, but when it's some gender or race that's always doubted, it gets sexist/racist.

Izzyisme:

feauxx:

Therumancer:
Awesome special FX Jim. :)

That said, after I got done laughing I decided I'd toss out something similar to my usual comments about the overall point of this episode.

Like it or not there are differences between guys and girls as far as perception and manipulation goes. In general dudes can be manipulated through media by an attractive girl, or the belief they are dealing with one, far more easily than girls can be manipulated by hot guys. This is why you see so many companies using spokesmodels, filling events with party girls (or booth babes), or in the case of Japan doing things like getting female voice operators to talk in higher pitched tones of voice (attractive for the culture apparently).

The reaction to female gamers is what it is because of how saturated the market has become with women trying to manipulate guys, to the point where it's become expected. This goes so far as to get girls who pretend to hang out at social events, cons, etc... to create a scene and to also lead guys in specific directions. You even see it at Renfaires and such where the people running booths will hire the cutest girls they can get to walk the grounds showing off whatever they are selling, and pretending to be other tourists. When you go to conventions, and not just gaming ones, you see the same exact thing going on. That's not paranoia either, I've met a good number of women who have done this kind of thing. As a matter of public record companies like Ubisoft formed things like the "Frag Dolls" as a
promotional gimmick to sell their products, which is a variation on this.

On a more personal level a lot of girls, especially young girls, learn at an early age to manipulate guys. Whether it's football or video games, a lot of girls feign interest in whatever guys like to get things out of them. This can be anything from a "Camwhore" trying to get guys to buy her things off her Amazon gift list, to a girl trying to get you to do her homework or be her personal free taxi service.

Geeks, by being social outcasts who really wish they could have hot girlfriends, become prime targets for manipulation. Once you get burned a bunch of times, paranoia of a sort sets in, and it's a fairly justified paranoia.

One thing I will point out that rarely enters into these discussion is that the less attractive and/or more freaky a girl is, the more likely she is to be accepted as a gamer or within the geek culture. As a general rule, if a girl could be hanging off the arm of some Jock or successful/socially apt dude, the more suspicious a geek is likely to be of her ultimate motives.

Obscure gaming questions tend to be "touring questions" in cases like this. Sort of like what a real lesbian might do to root out guys pretending to be lesbians online (lol). It's less about there being a correct answer, or an actual test of knowledge, but rather a matter of reaction. To give an example, if someone comes up to a real geek and asks a question about some obscure Japanese video game, he might not know the answer but the way he inquires about it, and mentions ones that he has plays is what is going to make him genuine. When it comes to some geek girl being asked say "what is your favorite Shadow Hearts transformation?" (if such came up) it's less about her having to have played that game to be real, but more about whether she becomes defensive. A "proper" answer for someone that was ignorant would be to say "I haven't played that is it similar to [insert other RPG where you combine and transform characters, like say Soul Fusions in Persona or Demon Combining in other SMT games or whatever)" or something similar that fits
into the conversation.

To be honest one of the reasons so many people (including me) laugh at pics with geek girls making snappy comebacks "Oh I haven't read the entire run of Batman, but neither have you" is that they miss the point in the course of trying to defend the trend. If you like Batman you might not know every bloody obscure thing he's ever done (like say using a Bat-Monster truck loaded with fully automatic tranquilizer guns) but if your a serious fan you can turn something you didn't know into quite a conversation and that's kind of the point.

Ah well, I doubt many people read this far, and very few will agree with me, but that's my two cents.

When it comes to the acceptance of geek girls of all stripes and physical apperance into the "community" (such as it is) it's not something that can be forced. It will happen over time, but understand that the social intertia of decades upon decades of geeks being manipulated by cute girls is not something that is going to disappear comparatively overnight because more girls are gaming and discovering/getting involved in fandom for real.

Did you just use a whole lot of words to basically say girls are lying, manipulating, untrustworthy extortionists while simultaneously insulting men for being spineless weaklings who's willpower evaporates the moment they see a girl, making them vulnerable to be wrapped around any girls evil little finger?

Yes, he did. Ignore him.

I notice that you were both unable to rebut anything he said. I guess that means it's all true.

Leave it to Jim to kick in the openest of doors. I mean, did this really have to be said? Is anyone who is sensible enough to consider your (in this case implied) arguments on their own merits likely to hold these views in the first place? I wonder how much of a difference this kind of video makes.

Don't get me wrong, it was enjoyable all the same.

stueymon:
While I loved this video, and I fully appreciate this problems exists. I have to wonder, who has actually experienced it?

Male or female, where and how did you experience a "Fake girl gamer" insult?

I can't say I have but that said, I rarely engage in talks ingame and I don't otherwise socialise with people I'd consider ignorant

There was a hilarious case where the editor of a gaming website had a guy be a shit to her because she was wearing a Bioshock Infinite t-shirt. When he tried to tell her how she'd obviously never played the game, she responded by telling him how it ended.

Holy shit, Jim. My sides are in orbit!

Lost it at "THIS AFFECTS ME! THIS FUCKING AFFECTS ME!"

Oh man, very well done. Good show. Great episode.

Once again, the problem is not the fact that fake gamer PEOPLE are annoying, it is the fact that they DO actually ruin our culture. Remember what happened to Metal in the 80s when it got all popular with the poseurs? Yeah, exactly. The influx of poseurs in gamer culture IS actually ruining the culture itself because their numbers allow them to sway the industry to their shallow opinions (such as "MAKE MORE DUDEBRO SHOOTERS!"). This is what happened to Metal (leaving all the good Metal to be made in Europe and to struggle in the underground in America) and this is what is happening to geek culture now.

So you are COMPLETELY missing the point when you think it's about us just being butthurt for some arbitrary reason that I don't know what you think it is. The point is that these poseurs ARE hurting the culture, and once they exhaust themselves and get bored of it, they'll leave, leaving it devastated beyond recovery and putting us back in the underground with them making fun of us.

History shows this is what happens when an underground culture becomes popular then gets kicked out of the popular scene.

Windknight:

stueymon:
While I loved this video, and I fully appreciate this problems exists. I have to wonder, who has actually experienced it?

Male or female, where and how did you experience a "Fake girl gamer" insult?

I can't say I have but that said, I rarely engage in talks ingame and I don't otherwise socialise with people I'd consider ignorant

There was a hilarious case where the editor of a gaming website had a guy be a shit to her because she was wearing a Bioshock Infinite t-shirt. When he tried to tell her how she'd obviously never played the game, she responded by telling him how it ended.

ooo. link? please.

Windknight:

stueymon:
While I loved this video, and I fully appreciate this problems exists. I have to wonder, who has actually experienced it?

Male or female, where and how did you experience a "Fake girl gamer" insult?

I can't say I have but that said, I rarely engage in talks ingame and I don't otherwise socialise with people I'd consider ignorant

There was a hilarious case where the editor of a gaming website had a guy be a shit to her over her because she was wearing a Bioshock Infinite t-shirt. When he tried to tell her how she'd obviously never played the game, she responded by telling him how it ended.

It does happen but It still boggles my mind how this is gamings version of "starving children in africa". lol honestly though Im a guy so I dont know what its like to be harassed online like that. probably infuriating but nothing to slit wrists over. thats just me though.

The Master from Buffy, season 1.
Oh joy!!!

What to expect next week?!

uanime5:

I notice that you were both unable to rebut anything he said. I guess that means it's all true.

That's sarcasm, right? Because if it's not you have some warped logic.

uanime5:

Izzyisme:

feauxx:

Did you just use a whole lot of words to basically say girls are lying, manipulating, untrustworthy extortionists while simultaneously insulting men for being spineless weaklings who's willpower evaporates the moment they see a girl, making them vulnerable to be wrapped around any girls evil little finger?

Yes, he did. Ignore him.

I notice that you were both unable to rebut anything he said. I guess that means it's all true.

I just broke his wall of text down to the gist, which was at the core just insulting. I don't waste my time rebutting an insult. I suggest you don't guess anything from that.

Therumancer:
Nope, you might want to read it more carefully.

All I've done is point out social trends. With trends you cannot say "this applies to all people" merely enough for it to create the current problems.

In short, enough girls manipulate guys, or are used to manipulate guys, especially those socially awkward enough to constantly immerse themselves in deep escapism, that it makes guys paranoid. Most guys get burned by this, especially nerds, and then stop falling for it but become paranoid, which presents a barrier when you see women becoming genuinely interested in geek culture.

The point isn't so much that this is "right" but that you have to understand why it exists, it's actually the result of a defensive mechanism more than a sense of elitism when you get down to it. That's the crucial problem with Jim's analysis.

Rather than QQing about it on the internet, I think the real solution here is simply time. Girls will break into geekdom and be accepted once geek-boys learn to be a lot less paranoid about it. Screaming about elitism isn't really relevant, this isn't a "No Girls Allowed" sign hung on a clubhouse, but people who have been trained to believe that any girl who is interested in them must have some angle.

Please also note that on a lot of levels this is more insulting towards your typical gamer than girls if you really want to read insult into it, as a key element is people who are by and large social outcasts to begin with. Again not all hardcore gamers ARE totally maladjusted nerds, but enough are for this trend to exist.

Well, ignored and shunned unless they want something. Take a look at the whole "Camwhore" thing that has become infamous on the internet, where the whole schtick is for girls to get to know geeky guys entirely by remote with no chance of meeting them and convince them to give them things. Do all girls do this? No, but it's happened enough geeks have reactively become paranoid, and always look for the angle here, and think "is this person just trying to get to know me so I will do something for them".

Speaking in terms of stereotypes, the cute girls shunning nerds is only part of it, as the cute girls also stereotypically try and get the geeks to do their homework, cover for them, or take a fall for them. Are all girls this manipulative? Of course not. But again, it's a trend that has bred paranoia among those who are on the fringes of society to begin with. When you become rejected for being a geek, it becomes unusually for those who rejected you (which are average people, not just the exceptional ones) to seek out your company unless they want to temporarily make use of you.

... and again, it doesn't matter if it works when it comes to the booth babes and stuff, the intent is obvious and by being obvious it again contributes to that paranoia.

My entire point here is that your dealing less with geek elitism more than being defensive.

The point is that it's an understandable reaction and not something people are just going to shelve in the compatively short time we've seen girls genuinely interested in geek culture. A lifetime of being shunned and rejected does not go away overnight, nor does what decades of social trends have done to the psyche.

The thing is that girls are not being "vetted" out of elitism but as a defensive reaction, something that I think needs to be understood without mockery before you can even seriously address this kind of issue.

It's also not nice, but girls are the comparative newcomers to this arena, and like any newcomers to anything instant acceptance isn't going to happen.

As I've said a few times here, the point isn't so much that it's right, but rather me presenting the issue as it is. As I've also pointed out I think it's the kind of thing that will go away with time, and only with time, all the internet ranting in the world won't help.

It might not be much of a relief, but if current trends continue I'd imagine we'll see gaming be a lot more co-ed by 2030. I think it will take a few generations of youthful interest to adapt. Those who have been beaten down into certain ways of thinking aren't going to change overall, and rather tend to make individual exceptions. However if things continue the way your going you'll see kids coming up from the beginning with both boys and girls being genuinely interested, you'll also increasingly see a trend for "geekdom" to be less shunned, and over time you'll see assimilation even if this doesn't comfort anyone now.

I understand what you're saying here, but does any of it make it okay to gatekeep or assume the worst of every female who appears to have nerdy inclinations you come across? Do you really think the male sex has the market cornered on being manipulated and mocked by females? Please. Growing up, most of the grief I got for any nerdiness or awkwardness came from other girls. The ones who most often took advantage of my naiveté, and eagerness to trust and make friends with them? Other girls. The ones who mocked and spread the most rumors about the games me and my friends played, or the art we did in class? Other girls. The ones who had the sharpest insults and turned the most people against me? Other girls.

Now I'm an adult, and I'm over all that. I don't distrust every girl I encounter who claims to share a few of my interests, or claims to want to be my friend. In fact, I get excited when I come across someone like that. And if they are taking advantage of me, then I'll find out sooner or later and I'll deal with it as necessary.

So the way I see it, this "defensiveness" and the results it brings which you seem to think are somehow deserved are just childish pains that some just can't seem to let go of, and are now taking out on people who do not deserve it. Yeah, people are going to make fun of you and take advantage of you in life. As a kid, and an adult. That happens, no matter what your interests or hobbies are. But you're going to have to decide which person you are more okay with being: the person who trusts until they are given a reason to be untrustworthy, or the person who distrusts and pushes back until they arbitrarily decide they have "proof" enough to trust in someone.

Don't try to tell me your scars are special, or that it somehow gives you the right to treat me like shit. I grew up, and I got over those girls. Now it's time you did the same.

rbstewart7263:
Snip

Close, but that sounds more like a disagreement of opinion. I mean if you said you like Bioshock: Infinite and said Sonic employee agreed, declaring their undying love for that game, and then you ask "Whats your favorite Vigor?" They look down at their shoes and say "Oh no, these aren't Vigors, they're Nikes." THAT is a example of the Hipster Gamer.

What I don't get is why Jim is so eager to defend the hipsters? Sure, it doesn't harm us true gamers if some guy or girl says they like something when they really don't, but is that the type of message we want to send? That its okay to lie? That walking around saying things that are blatantly untrue is totally fine so long as whats being said is something we agree with? Where's the line? At what point do we say no they're not just trying to fit in, they're lying and we need to call them on their shit. How would any one of us feel if we met someone who loved Dungeons and Dragons but didn't know what a d20 was? Or loved baseball, but didn't know what that bat thingy was for? Embracing rhese obvious liars strikes me as finding it funny when people posted on their facebook last 4th "Happy 2013 B-day America!" or "Wait wiat, Louie Armstrong played jazz and walked on the moon?!"

Its not cute. I don't care about the attention. Its lying. Its being dumb and we should not reward it.

(Sorry, totally went on a rant after the Snip. My bad)

What's this? The walls are shifting around me and there's a light, I'm being pulled toward it, someone help me...

*poof*

Oh Jim, you truly are a champion of gaming, a fine warrior on a great crusade. Hear this lowly ones, we must fight this oppression, with Jim Sterling as our champion we surely cannot fail. THANK GOD FOR JIM...

*puff of smoke*

phew... What happened there then? Look at this... That portal must have greater reach than we had thought Mr. Sterling, next time, take that into account please... ^^ =p

*loud boom*

... That was... Uncomfortable... Must've only been half-way back there... How's that for satire Jimbo?

I may have been playing a little too much Spelunky recently. Though I do love how every time there's a fight over who gets stuck playing as the girl but no one can ever be bothered to unlock more characters... But I digress.

Jim, that was fucking orgasmic... I can still feel it, all the way down my spine. Thank GOD for Jim!

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