Jimquisition: Gamer Guys

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I like the flip Jim!

My friends and I have never had issues with this subject, but I have come across guys that snicker about girl gamers. It seems to be a problem among guys that can't get dates. Me and my circle don't have bad luck with ladies and many of my girl-friends have spent a lot of time gaming with me.

This subject does make me miss cutie I was with a few years ago. She was way better at Killzone 2 and Battlefield: Bad Company 2. I would get really mad but then I would think, "wow, this is kind of hot".

WaitWHAT:
"Guys leading me on with their muscular buns and slick calf muscles."
"using their supple, smooth bodies and elegant nipples to sell themselves on sex appeal"

Jim....it's time for you to come out of there.

image

(<3)

OT: Well, I didn't think that this was such a problem. I'd've thought that everyone could get on nicely, liking the things they like and peacefully letting others do the same. But if Jim's having to do a video on it, I may well have been wrong.

FYI: Jim's been "out" awhile.

Uhh..this is still a thing?

Come on, the problem is a little more widespread than what genitals you own while playing with your controller, it's just how internet culture works. People filter themselves into small niche groups, then find another group to pick on, it's how the internet has worked since it's become popular. Weeaboos pick on furries, goons pick on weeaboos, everyone picks on bronies. Join any niche internet community, and you will see examples of this.

Yes, none of it is right, or justified, but you will not fix such a problem simply trimming at the weeds that pop out of the soil. To fix a problem like this one, you have to pull the roots out.

Jannes Ehmke:
I agree here, a phrase I hear way too often for saying 'out of all the call of duty games I prefer the first one, the more recent ones seem to have lost the plot of what the game was about' that "Oh you're one of those guys..."

On the other hand I never finished Zelda or Mario, mostly because when I was young we never had a console, I got to play games on my father's work computer after hours, meaning that what most memorably what I got to play was along the lines of Doom and Quake, and later Age of Empires.

So then you get scoffed for being an old gamer who dislikes the way the industry is going, but then get scoffed for not playing the same titles the others did. A few friends are in the same situation, we get flak from all directions and ended up withdrawing from the community as a whole, playing by ourselves or amongst ourselves.

That being said, what is a true gamer, does our dedication to making the best of a situation, finding a way to play games even when we had such restricted access not count. That by the time we could have our own PCs, we spent the majority of our free time in a garage to LAN, sometimes for weeks on end. Does that not warrant the term gamer?

My point here being that if I was to be given Jim's test I'd likely fail, but then it doesn't change the fact that I've been gaming since I could create cognitive thought and have dedicated my life to it.

I realise that it's satire to a degree and that it's disproportional but at the end of the day true feeling lays behind it and in effect is an attitude no different to those you describe so flatteringly.

But his point with the test is there shouldn't BE a test. It's not just that it's sarcastic, but also that the whole "test" thing is ridiculous. We are now gauging how much like you have for the things you like so the club can stay all exclusive? I'm a gamer, but really gaming gets in the way of activities that are actually productive to me, we all have these things we do that aren't necessarily productive. My point is who gets all worked up where they fit into that niche?

Don't get all hurt when people don't intend to disclude you. He is talking specifically to the "all boys club" jerks who don't want to give up their shiny exclusivity. Save your hurt feelings for the real jerks.

DrThodt:
Uhh..this is still a thing?

Come on, the problem is a little more widespread than what genitals you own while playing with your controller, it's just how internet culture works. People filter themselves into small niche groups, then find another group to pick on, it's how the internet has worked since it's become popular. Weeaboos pick on furries, goons pick on weeaboos, everyone picks on bronies. Join any niche internet community, and you will see examples of this.

Yes, none of it is right, or justified, but you will not fix such a problem simply trimming at the weeds that pop out of the soil. To fix a problem like this one, you have to pull the roots out.

Firstly, 40%+ of the gaming population shouldn't be a niche, perceived or otherwise. Secondly, until there's a grand high dictator-for-life of the gaming industry, pulling a problem out by the roots is nothing more than a fancy way of saying "ignore the problem and maybe it'll go away". All we have is various kinds of weedkiller (criticism and supporting non-weeds when possible).

Darmani:
Why only OUTCASTS play games here we game here because we're outcasts and she's not just not one of us she's categorically from appearance never going to HAVE To be one of us. I mean if a white couple joins a black church I assure you they will both stand out AND get talked about.

I'm having a really hard time understanding you, here. Gamers are outcasts not because we play games and games are regarded distastefully by popular culture, but because we're physically unappealing? Are you suggesting that video games are the province of ugly people, and that we're social outcasts because of it?

Darmani:
Samus Aran part...
Mainly the frustration with male nerd gatekeeping. It IS wrong and a problem, to a degree. Most girls in gaming I know are perfectly legit. Others just dabblers, others are tangentially related (they like cosplay and its between conventions and this social gathering seems okay and they know who they cosplay as). They are all accepted. BUT also there is natural part where someone who who looks and acts say totally against nerd type joins.

You're operating under the assumption that there is a "nerd type" beyond "someone who likes nerdy things". Does someone have to look like Urkel before we accept that they might actually like video games?

Darmani:
Lets say Brad Pitt got on an interview and professed his gamer credentials. It would seem ridiculous, at least to me.

Why? Is this the beauty/outcast thing again? Vin Deisel is pretty much the epitome of the musclebound jock stereotype, and the guy loves D&D. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Brad Pitt said he liked to play video games; they are an entertainment medium with something for everyone.

Darmani:
Male nerds are doing that to females who have been IN the culture and the vast swaths joining in recently. At least part of the initial rejection is they are new and different. And its underlining all response to them (women are reacting as a collective, experiencing as a collective, responded to as a collective).
If somemone looks like they could hack it as normal and NOT socially rejected it feels off they just take a shirt FROM the socially rejected and they are part of group that's trendy (so not just socially accepted but usually with the power).

So it is an appearance thing. Someone who looks "normal" can't possibly be a nerd because they don't know how we poor, marginalised few have suffered!? I'm sorry, but it's nonsense. Most nerds I know look and act totally "normal". There's no way to know what someone is into just by looking at them, because even if they're wearing, say, a Nuka Cola t-shirt you can't extrapolate that they also love anime and were always picked last for team sports.

Darmani:
Then add in the activities. Gamers gather to share stats and game, sometimes, or discuss geek ephemera. But can you have that conversation with the person who looks like she would be anywhere but here? I mean she has that tshirt but.. uhm okay. That's assuming no cosplay, not glompme signs, no cross fandom stuff.

That depends. Is she interested in having that conversation? You can't judge that based on how "normal" you think she looks. She might be a supermodel decked out in designer fashions and still have a better K/D ratio on CoD than you do. She might be wearing a Batman t-shirt just because she likes the logo and has never read a comic in her life. If a girl wants to have a conversation with you about geek culture, it's probably a safe bet that she wants to talk about geek culture because it interests her; after all, if we're as ugly as you seem to be saying, what other reason would she have for talking to us than because she wanted to chat about things that interest her?

JarinArenos:

Firstly, 40%+ of the gaming population shouldn't be a niche, perceived or otherwise. Secondly, until there's a grand high dictator-for-life of the gaming industry, pulling a problem out by the roots is nothing more than a fancy way of saying "ignore the problem and maybe it'll go away". All we have is various kinds of weedkiller (criticism and supporting non-weeds when possible).

Is it really 40%+ of the gaming population that reacts in this way? If that's really the case, there really is no hope for it. As far as a valid solution, I'm really just leaning towards a more sociological approach, not simply getting into shouting wars that no one wins. I've seen such tactics applied, and the minority always just ends up oppressed, and feeling alienated from their own community. Sound familiar?

I fuckin' loved this one Jim, excellent use of Holmes as well.

Phasmal:

Darmani:

Why only OUTCASTS play games here we game here because we're outcasts and she's not just not one of us she's categorically from appearance never going to HAVE To be one of us. I mean if a white couple joins a black church I assure you they will both stand out AND get talked about.

Are you being held in gaming against your will?
Never `having` to be one of us? As if it's some terrible thing to resort to?
You don't sound like you enjoy it.

You know, you might have had a point if only conventionally attractive women who are new to gaming got this fake shit, but they don't. I'm kind of a plain-jane myself, and not new at all to gaming- and I was an OUTCAST too, and I still get this crap.
And it has to stop.

Agreed. Sorry I ever did it. Just saying it happens for a reason and its not some unsympathetic ones. The message is still right. Stop gatekeeping its horrible. Stop assuming any girl you see isn't part of the deal, that's sexist. Don't quiz her, you may personally only be dealing iwth fear or skepticism but she's been going through this hour after hour for ten years and its unwelcoming.

I am alittle perplexed - is the whole "OMG, lots of fake girl gamers" thing a thing again/still? I thought it'd died away already.

Imp Emissary:

Jim could never fit in there. He's too.....Awesome! Yeah, awesome....
<_<

>_>

Anyway, xD Ya killed me again Jim! You really don't do thing half way, do you?

Thank God for you Jim. (And I don't just say that because it makes me look like a Geek Boy. I also really mean it. ;D)

Did we learn our lesson then? :D

It was a good setup for a joke, but you wore it down to the point of it not being funny before the video was finished. I got a little more than halfway through the rant before I got bored with it.

Actually this sorta fell a little flat on me as a gamer geek who is bitter that the people who used to take the piss out of me in school for being a gamer are now the target audience for most triple A titles....

Gender issues aside ofc and i do see what Jim was getting at which is a different point entirely

DrThodt:
Is it really 40%+ of the gaming population that reacts in this way? If that's really the case, there really is no hope for it.

I think the 40%+ figure was meant to indicate female gamers, rather than gamers who get all shitty about female gamers.

SonicWaffle:
My point remains the same - why does the priority need to be adaptation at all? If novels work better than movies as the basis for a video game, then shouldn't something designed with a video game in mind be a better fit than either? Rather than adapting books because they might work better, we should be coming up with new ideas that will work better because that's what they were written for.

In a ideal world all that would be true, but we don't leave in a ideal world.
1: There will always be adaptations from one medium to another.
2: Great adaptations demand creative thinking. It's a easy way for innovation too.

I found this was quite good, but taking a juxtaposing scenario to bring light to the mediocrity of "dying nerd culture" and "hate to girl gamers" made it a little difficult to follow; I found myself getting a bit muddled up when you flipped from one topic to another at very short notice.

WaitWHAT:

Imp Emissary:

Jim could never fit in there. He's too.....Awesome! Yeah, awesome....
<_<

>_>

Anyway, xD Ya killed me again Jim! You really don't do thing half way, do you?

Thank God for you Jim. (And I don't just say that because it makes me look like a Geek Boy. I also really mean it. ;D)

Did we learn our lesson then? :D

:D I have no idea what your talking about.

Also, don't mean to kill your hopes, but Jim is already married. Or he was the last time I checked.

Lilani:

But again I ask: is that any excuse to treat people who have done nothing wrong poorly? If you have psychological baggage, then you should either deal with it, or at least accept responsibility for what happens. If someone has a bad experience with a black person, that doesn't make them becoming a flaming racist "okay." They're still going to be responsible for what they say and do, and being racist is still not acceptable. If they can't bring themselves to treat people with respect, then the only responsible course of action is to get help and separate themselves from those situations as much as possible.

But that's just the thing. Where's the line between simply "being cautious around black people because of a prior bad experience" and "being a bigoted racist"? And remember, in this case, this is a case not of "being black" but "utilizing traits commonly attributed to black people". There's a difference and the people who know it can shamelessly take advantage of it.

A "gurrrl gamer" isn't necessarily female, they're simply someone who's utilizing female sex-appeal in order to get ahead. Guys do that too. Quite commonly, actually.

So if a person's baggage regarding women is really so great that it's preventing them from treating them with a certain level of respect and decorum, then they need to isolate themselves until they've got it under control.

Oh no. No no no no no. I'm sorry, but you're off the mark here. Isolation will only serve to make the confirmation bias worse. It's a vicious cycle, and isolation is not something you'd want to enforce unless the person in question is clearly and obviously a physical danger to themselves and people around them.

You can't just run around for your entire life being a total asshole and hiding behind "Oh, but I have issues with my past!" every time someone calls you out on it.

Agreed on this one. But, to go on with an analogy, as a rule of thumb if you meet such a person, write down a therapist number for them and hand it to them; and only go medieval on their ass if they refuse to see reason.

Goliath100:

SonicWaffle:
My point remains the same - why does the priority need to be adaptation at all? If novels work better than movies as the basis for a video game, then shouldn't something designed with a video game in mind be a better fit than either? Rather than adapting books because they might work better, we should be coming up with new ideas that will work better because that's what they were written for.

In a ideal world all that would be true, but we don't leave in a ideal world.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. We don't live in a perfect world, so we might as well content ourselves with adapted versions of proven stories rather than strive to create new stories that are a better fit for the medium? Great Expectations is a popular book with clear long-lasting appeal, but would you rather play the FPS adaptation or a totally new game I've just made about Bubbalicious, a levitating horse who can fire flaming daffodils out of his ears? One might be a great story, but that won't necessarily translate to a great game story, whereas the story for Bubba's Equine Quest was created to be a video game and therefore the narrative structure is designed to fit a game rather than the game having to be fit in around the narrative.

Goliath100:
1: There will always be adaptations from one medium to another.

Correct. This does not mean those adaptations should take precedence over new IP.

Goliath100:
2: Great adaptations demand creative thinking. It's a easy way for innovation too.

But great adaptations, as you pointed out earlier in this thread, are few and far between. What we get more often is an game being hampered to fit around the established story rather than being designed to work hand-in-hand with the medium of video games.

Imp Emissary:

Also, don't mean to kill your hopes, but Jim is already married. Or he was the last time I checked.

image

J-Jim? Married? SAY IT ISN'T TRUUUUUEEEEEE!!

w/e. I'll just put him on the list of people to seduce from their husbands, right after George Takei. Mmmmmmm

Jimothy Sterling:
Gamer Guys

Jimquisition travels to another time and another place, examining a world taken over by gamer guys and their testosterone-addled inanity. Something must be done!

Watch Video

I hear you on the "gamer guys" the "bro gamers".

I know some of the video was suppose to be jokes, but the method of calling people out and saying they aren't gamers, isn't exactly a perfect one. Heck I had never even heard of the game you said that the guy on facebook didn't know about.

I've been gaming for 23 years of my 27 year life, and I've definitely haven't seen or heard it all. Plus, obscure Japanese games have never been my thing, not really from the lack of interest, but from lack of funds for collecting and brain space to remember all aspects of gaming I come into contact with. Heck I've read and watched tons of articles and videos on "retro games", and I still learn things and see games I hadn't heard of.

Gaming and games are just so large a medium that I think there really aren't many certain questions that can be asked that are truly fair to determine who is a gamer and who is leech along for the blood-sucking ride. I would think a quiz would be in order, though the problem would be that it has to be administered where the person can't look things up on the internet. Though I think that "friend" of yours on Facebook showed how much of a true "gamer" he is, by not even faking that he knew it by making a quick Google search, because some gamers can get embarrassed(not that they need to be) that they don't know something about their hobby, that they will search for the answer so they can give it to try and hide their ignorance of certain gaming minutia.

But again, I'm rambling and going to deep into this.

WaitWHAT:

Imp Emissary:

Also, don't mean to kill your hopes, but Jim is already married. Or he was the last time I checked.

image

J-Jim? Married? SAY IT ISN'T TRUUUUUEEEEEE!!

w/e. I'll just put him on the list of people to seduce from their husbands, right after George Takei. Mmmmmmm

Wife actually. Got a kid too. Short of.

Also,
image

SonicWaffle:

thebakedpotato:
So am I... I go out and wear my company T Shirt to see if I can get a free drink. All that happens is I end up talking to the bartender about what games they like.

I did once have a barman compliment me on my Penny Arcade t-shirt!

Well, I say compliment, he told me he wasn't going to mock me for ordering cider because Penny Arcade is awesome. Same thing, right?

Which company, out of interest?

I can't really say... NDA and whathave ya.
I can say that I live in Austin though.

Imp Emissary:

WaitWHAT:

Imp Emissary:

Also, don't mean to kill your hopes, but Jim is already married. Or he was the last time I checked.

image

J-Jim? Married? SAY IT ISN'T TRUUUUUEEEEEE!!

w/e. I'll just put him on the list of people to seduce from their husbands, right after George Takei. Mmmmmmm

Wife actually. Got a kid too. Short of.

Also,
image

He's got a bastard son? Oh snap we getting all Game of Thrones up in this thread. At least we can hope he will stop us from the white walkers.

At some point, sex just stops being relevant. However it works both ways Jim, so be careful not to attract too much of a crowd.

Also since things were reversed I expected to see something like this.

Here's the thing that I don't think people are talking about. Yes the whole Stigma of Fake Gamer Girls is Effing Stupid...

But there are fake Gamer girls. Just like there are Fake Gamer Guys! This is a thing that has always existed There will always be people trying to profit off of a fandom without being in said fandom. But who are we to be the gatekeepers.

If someone starts out as a fake fan and then likes it... Then they're a real fan.

DrThodt:
Is it really 40%+ of the gaming population that reacts in this way? If that's really the case, there really is no hope for it. As far as a valid solution, I'm really just leaning towards a more sociological approach, not simply getting into shouting wars that no one wins. I've seen such tactics applied, and the minority always just ends up oppressed, and feeling alienated from their own community. Sound familiar?

Not to be a bit too blunt or heavy-handed about it, but I'm sure that the holdout enclaves of the KKK and similar groups feel oppressed and alienated, too. (and yeah, I'm introducing a far bigger issue for comparison, dissimilarity of size doesn't mean there isn't a parallel.)

Talking about an issue helps change the popular acceptance of it. There's plenty of people who don't think there's a problem simply because they don't think about it. Typically because they're the ones being catered to. A bit of education can go a long way.

I reckon it's just a sadder, more pathetic version of the hate placed on "casuals", as well as a heaping spoonful of virgin nerdrage.

When you can pretend that 'no girls are into your hobbies', you can twist logic hard enough to believe that is the reason no girls will go near you (and that it's not your overwhelming body odour, your half-formed, unkempt neckbeard or your completely unfounded superiority complex).

But when there are undeniably girls enjoying the thing you enjoy, you have to stretch logic well beyond the breaking point in order to keep that illusion going. So, clutching at straws, you come up with this insane narrative that it's some conspiracy carried out by girls in order to... do... something, what exactly the supposed end-game of this apparent nefarious plot is I've never been able to figure out.

Yes indeed Captcha, it is a 'no brainer'.

Winnosh:
But there are fake Gamer girls. Just like there are Fake Gamer Guys!

Reminded of this guy I saw on a "game news" snippet on some entertainment channel or something. Talking about "super mary-oh world" so very enthusiastically, when it was obvious he'd never heard of it, and kept blatantly mispronouncing things. And no, he didn't have any sort of accent otherwise.

I'm getting sick of this forced gender debate. There have always been chicks into gaming, all guys knows that. They've been in our circles of friends for years and not treated any differently.

What people seem to be angry about but unable to put into words is that:
-Video gaming has been traditionally a "nerd thing"
-The "nerds" have usually used video games or comic books as fantasy escapism because of some sort of social damage
-The "nerds" includes girls who've been in our circles of friends for since ever.
-Starting around 2007ish mainstream culture started liking bits of nerd culutre
-This gets more people interested in traditionally "nerd things". This includes gaming.
-These new people suddenly start trying to make the sub-culture change to suit them, and paint the nerds as "bad people" if they disagree.

In the case of gaming and gender, a very small, very vocal minority who says they speak for all women and all feminists decides nerds are conspiring to keep women out of games and using games to oppress them, label anyone who disagrees as "misogynists", "Women Haters", and potential rapists. This is what started all the "nice guy" hate that labled socially awkward nerds users of women and has groveling on forums about how "I don't want to be one!".

All this with the help of the gaming media, so fearful of being called any one of those things, suddenly starts shaming gamers with finger waggling articles and videos about how awful we all are without questioning the reasoning or rationality behind it all. Did women not exist in gaming for the past 10-35 years? Were the nerd girls made silent by big bad nerd boys? Is there not an increasing number of women in game development?

And as for the newbies having their "nerd-cred" questioned by vets... how do you think sub-culture works? It's always been like that no matter WHAT it is.

Seriously, what's your first reaction to a suburban teen white boy who says he's a hardcore rap fan?
image

Jim, stop betraying me with your enormous penis and manly charisma! It's very distracting.

Nurb:
And as for the newbies having their "nerd-cred" questioned by vets... how do you think sub-culture works? It's always been like that no matter WHAT it is.

And if the reactions were the same, you would be right. But they're not. I've not seen or heard of a single example of a male cosplayer getting randomly quizzed on his character to "prove he isn't a fake geek". Meanwhile, this happens to female cosplayers all over the place.

Nurb:
In the case of gaming and gender, a very small, very vocal minority who says they speak for all women and all feminists decides nerds are conspiring to keep women out of games and using games to oppress them...

I think they're just speaking for themselves. Where does Jim or anyone else say they are speaking for all women? You do know it is possible for men to have opinions about gender, right?

This is what started all the "nice guy" hate that labled socially awkward nerds users of women and has groveling on forums about how "I don't want to be one!".

WTF are you talking about?

Were the nerd girls made silent by big bad nerd boys?

Pretty much. Not just nerd girls, but also nerd boys with different ideas about sexuality, etc.

And as for the newbies having their "nerd-cred" questioned by vets... how do you think sub-culture works? It's always been like that no matter WHAT it is.

Gaming is no longer a subculture. In any case, subcultures mostly suck for these reasons. People shouldn't be treating each other this way, regardless of the context.

Seriously, what's your first reaction to a suburban teen white boy who says he's a hardcore rap fan?

That it's a completely normal thing?

I haven't looked up the statistics lately, but I believe that young, white suburban males are by far the largest consumers of rap music. So, it would be completely unsurprising for such a person to be a fan of it.

Imp Emissary:

Wife actually. Got a kid too. Short of.

After this video, I doubt he'll need much persuasion.

Also,
image

image

You're kind of my hero Jim. Thank god for you indeed.

Also: Never been called a "fake gamer girl" yet. Here's hoping it'll never happen.

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