Jimquisition: Gamer Guys

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SonicWaffle:
We don't live in a perfect world, so we might as well content ourselves with adapted versions of proven stories rather than strive to create new stories that are a better fit for the medium? Great Expectations is a popular book with clear long-lasting appeal, but would you rather play the FPS adaptation or a totally new game I've just made about Bubbalicious, a levitating horse who can fire flaming daffodils out of his ears? One might be a great story, but that won't necessarily translate to a great game story, whereas the story for Bubba's Equine Quest was created to be a video game and therefore the narrative structure is designed to fit a game rather than the game having to be fit in around the narrative.

But great adaptations, as you pointed out earlier in this thread, are few and far between. What we get more often is an game being hampered to fit around the established story rather than being designed to work hand-in-hand with the medium of video games.

My point with the ideal world thing is that you are working off an idealist logic where people will be creative for the sake of creativity. Which isn't the case. And yes, choose source material is important, therefore nobody suggests to make an FPS out of Great Expectations. Here is the thing: In the translation from one medium to another things will be changed, and figure out how to make something work in a medium it wasn't designed in is a challange that pushes the envelope. If you are just using established formeulas you will not think creatively, and you will just end up stagnating.

TreuloseTomate:
I'm a bit lost here. Are "gamer girls" really such an issue? I've actually never met any of these caricature gamer girlz that some people seem to be complaining about. What year is this?

Oh, oh, sir I know this one. Its 2013.

Anyways, I have no problem with girls ciaming to be gamers as long as they're not on about facebook games.
Hell my sis plays ff games and fire... it begins with an e but i cant spell it.
I forgot the point i was trying to make. :(

Really, on further thought, this utterly baffles me. If we're a formerly-shunned group, now coming into prominence, wouldn't we want people claiming to be geeks? It's the people who like games but hide it - acting like gaming is still shameful - that we should have a problem with.

You know, I'm curious.

I agree with Jim, that the gatekeeping and boys club mentality has got to go. And I certainly see subtle problems of guys treating women differently, and judging fellow guys geekiness rather leniently, while applying much more strict tests to females, more frequently, and extrapolating wildly from that. But where exactly are all the guys who actually believe and express a problem with women specifically and openly? Sure, you see an occasional troll, and an occasional poorly written article, but I rarely see a large number of unironic people openly criticizing the whole gender. I always see sexist guys couching there sexism in arguments that seem reasonable on the surface, often times not being discriminatory by being categorically different to women, but by matters of degrees, slightly scoffing at a guy who hasn't played Zelda, and outright exile for a girl who can't name some obscure piece of trivia. Am I lucky, in that I see the problem in its more subtle and nuanced forms? Or is there really hoards of gamers out there with a girls-are-icky mentality, not covering there misogyny with so much as a shred of plausible deniability? And I mean by community, not individuals.

Also, Does anyone else have a video ad for some stupid reality TV show that pops up at the hin of a mouseover, and that blocks half of the text field, making writing a response extremely annoying?

I had a good laugh, this was a great episode XD.

Makes the whole "fake gamer girl" thing some people go on about look even more stupid when you flip it, hopefully this helps make them stop going on about it.

God damnit this show has gone from one of my most hated to my second favorite... MovieBob is #1! But damn that was a great episode XD

Xanadu84:
You know, I'm curious.

I agree with Jim, that the gatekeeping and boys club mentality has got to go. And I certainly see subtle problems of guys treating women differently, and judging fellow guys geekiness rather leniently, while applying much more strict tests to females, more frequently, and extrapolating wildly from that. But where exactly are all the guys who actually believe and express a problem with women specifically and openly? Sure, you see an occasional troll, and an occasional poorly written article, but I rarely see a large number of unironic people openly criticizing the whole gender. I always see sexist guys couching there sexism in arguments that seem reasonable on the surface, often times not being discriminatory by being categorically different to women, but by matters of degrees, slightly scoffing at a guy who hasn't played Zelda, and outright exile for a girl who can't name some obscure piece of trivia. Am I lucky, in that I see the problem in its more subtle and nuanced forms? Or is there really hoards of gamers out there with a girls-are-icky mentality, not covering there misogyny with so much as a shred of plausible deniability? And I mean by community, not individuals.

Also, Does anyone else have a video ad for some stupid reality TV show that pops up at the hin of a mouseover, and that blocks half of the text field, making writing a response extremely annoying?

The line between "trolling" and "actual shameful belief" is a hard one to judge on the internet. But really, just go browse the comments on other sites when this topic comes up. The Escapist at its worst is milder than a lot of other game news sites at their best.

WaitWHAT:

Imp Emissary:

Wife actually. Got a kid too. Short of.

After this video, I doubt he'll need much persuasion.

Also,
image

image

With the lion, or the old man?

Yup, the flipped argument still holds water for me. I just hate fake people I guess.

That is assuming that "fake gamer girls" is even really that much of a problem. I know they are out there, but I doubt it's as much of a problem as some have said it is. I've encountered enough fake gamer guys for sure, but they are fake in different ways that girls are accused of being fake.

I hate guy gamers as well! I prefer my gamers to be amorphous, genderless blobs.

Jimothy Sterling:
Gamer Guys

Jimquisition travels to another time and another place, examining a world taken over by gamer guys and their testosterone-addled inanity. Something must be done!

Watch Video

It's not the fact that they are girls, rather certain types of individuals who always make a big deal about being something and it's crept into the gaming domain. Less Guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurl Gamers and more attention seeking idiots that happen to be female. The reason they are characterized as such (the gurl part) is that they tend to appear in games which have their player base dominated by males. It's not the server pop. making the observation. Unless they start communicating, no one would know otherwise. I've met maybe two or three of these creatures in the past several years, and those were glimpses at best. This is mirrored in the community as a whole, which is why I am confused with regards to your choice of this week's show.

I have never seen a serious post or thread that stated that the OP wanted there to be no female gamers. I am certain that such people exist, but this is hardly a gamer problem.

Silentpony:

rbstewart7263:
Snip

Close, but that sounds more like a disagreement of opinion. I mean if you said you like Bioshock: Infinite and said Sonic employee agreed, declaring their undying love for that game, and then you ask "Whats your favorite Vigor?" They look down at their shoes and say "Oh no, these aren't Vigors, they're Nikes." THAT is a example of the Hipster Gamer.

What I don't get is why Jim is so eager to defend the hipsters? Sure, it doesn't harm us true gamers if some guy or girl says they like something when they really don't, but is that the type of message we want to send? That its okay to lie? That walking around saying things that are blatantly untrue is totally fine so long as whats being said is something we agree with? Where's the line? At what point do we say no they're not just trying to fit in, they're lying and we need to call them on their shit. How would any one of us feel if we met someone who loved Dungeons and Dragons but didn't know what a d20 was? Or loved baseball, but didn't know what that bat thingy was for? Embracing rhese obvious liars strikes me as finding it funny when people posted on their facebook last 4th "Happy 2013 B-day America!" or "Wait wiat, Louie Armstrong played jazz and walked on the moon?!"

Its not cute. I don't care about the attention. Its lying. Its being dumb and we should not reward it.

(Sorry, totally went on a rant after the Snip. My bad)

well his initial inquiry into gaming was forced which is where the comparison came from. I think he was reaching for a tip but who knows. either way its still not cool to judge people who are trying to fit in even if they fail at it.

I don't get it.

But then I didn't get all the hype over the female version either. It's like watching a parody movie of a movie I was never interested in in the first place.

This episode infuriated me and aroused me at the same time, it's a confusing feeling.

Monxeroth:
Meanwhile in the big bang theory....

Y-y-you mean TV is misrepresenting my interests!?
STOP THE PRESSES!
Seriously, it's just sad at this point.

Funny video but ,honestly, I've never heard anyone talk like that. All of my friends online and off love the idea of women showing an interest in our hobby - even if it isn't entirely genuine.

Maybe I just don't frequent the wretched hives of scum and misogyny where this kind of talk goes on. Maybe I'm just out of touch...

Many perfectly reasonable complaints about guygamers with no particular passion for video games, as they are about girlgamers with no particular passion for video games.

Amusing episode Jim. My favorite SH fusion is a tie between Jutendouji from Covenant and La Sirene from FTNW.

I'm glad you lampshaded the !@#$ out of that intro. XD That made it worth it.

Also, on the actual topic...Anyone whining about fake gamer girls and stuff needs to get over it.

I haven't met any. I rarely see girls gaming on line, and when they do they're usually at least semi competent. Hell my GF is a big gaming fan, although she's not what you'd call hardcore.

Xanadu84:
You know, I'm curious.

I agree with Jim, that the gatekeeping and boys club mentality has got to go. And I certainly see subtle problems of guys treating women differently, and judging fellow guys geekiness rather leniently, while applying much more strict tests to females, more frequently, and extrapolating wildly from that. But where exactly are all the guys who actually believe and express a problem with women specifically and openly? Sure, you see an occasional troll, and an occasional poorly written article, but I rarely see a large number of unironic people openly criticizing the whole gender. I always see sexist guys couching there sexism in arguments that seem reasonable on the surface, often times not being discriminatory by being categorically different to women, but by matters of degrees, slightly scoffing at a guy who hasn't played Zelda, and outright exile for a girl who can't name some obscure piece of trivia. Am I lucky, in that I see the problem in its more subtle and nuanced forms? Or is there really hoards of gamers out there with a girls-are-icky mentality, not covering there misogyny with so much as a shred of plausible deniability? And I mean by community, not individuals.

Also, Does anyone else have a video ad for some stupid reality TV show that pops up at the hin of a mouseover, and that blocks half of the text field, making writing a response extremely annoying?

You have to look for them.
You really have to look for them.
If you don't want to dig deep you will usually find these kinds of people on poorly worded articles or just articles focused on gender treatment within games in general.
From my experience on Kotaku- Any article related about Anita and any gender related articles written by Patricia tend to awaken a few of them in the woodworks.

However where they openly talk about this stuff? You would have to go to the deepest parts of Reddit and other "bro" centric websites and find the groups that relate guys and gaming.
I have only seen screenshots of the comments there on Tumblr and Facebook.
Honestly I have never been there myself, and I don't plan on sacrificing my brain cells on them either.
They are for the most part funny...if it weren't for the fact that they are very damn serious about what they are claiming.
Which usually revolves around the evils of "friendzoning"
and as Jim said- The secret agenda of Feminazis "destroying the male space" one activity at a time.

I never understood the "problem" with "girl gamers." I wish I could find a girl who knows anything about gaming or just wanted to play. I mean a girl that like the same things I do would be awesome... near impossible but awesome.

Therumancer:
The point is that it's an understandable reaction and not something people are just going to shelve in the compatively short time we've seen girls genuinely interested in geek culture.

Females have been interested in "geek culture" just as long as males have. The person considered the world's first computer programmer was a woman.

In any case, "geek culture" is a bullshit idea that should be thrown away like the outdated garbage it is.

A lifetime of being shunned and rejected does not go away overnight, nor does what decades of social trends have done to the psyche.

And you don't think that many women have been shunned and rejected their entire lives? Women only fairly recently got the right to vote, and they are still regularly the victims of domestic violence. For much of history, they have been considered as the property of men.

In recent history, they have been considered as little more than Barbie dolls or sex objects, and that treatment definitely applies to "geek culture."

The thing is that girls are not being "vetted" out of elitism but as a defensive reaction, something that I think needs to be understood without mockery before you can even seriously address this kind of issue.

Well, that needs to stop, regardless of the underlying cause. The fact that women are frequently beaten by men is not excused if the reason for that beating is male insecurity.

It's also not nice, but girls are the comparative newcomers to this arena, and like any newcomers to anything instant acceptance isn't going to happen.

No, women are definitely not newcomers to geeky hobbies, or to rejection and abuse. The majority of the people cracking Nazi codes and building aircraft for the Allied forces during WWII were women. And they never got the respect that the men did.

And who are you to judge somebody's "acceptance" on the type of genitals or chromosomes they have?

The thing is that girls are not being "vetted" out of elitism but as a defensive reaction, something that I think needs to be understood without mockery before you can even seriously address this kind of issue.

Well, that needs to stop, regardless of the underlying cause. The fact that women are frequently beaten by men is not excused if the reason for that beating is male insecurity.

It's also not nice, but girls are the comparative newcomers to this arena, and like any newcomers to anything instant acceptance isn't going to happen.

No, women are definitely not newcomers to geeky hobbies, or to rejection and abuse.

UGHHHHH!!! JIM, Bob JUST MADE A VIDEO ABOUT GENDER.

When will this crap be over with? I mean for the love of freaking crapping Pete and whatever other PG obscenities there are! I am SO. FREAKING. SICK of this kind of video.

It almost makes me wish that your point was wrong; so that I'd have more leverage by which to debunk its worth. But no, it's 100% legitimate. But MAN has it been hammered in enough by now.

By the way, I stopped at the 2:24 mark, so if he actually says something original towards the end (which I doubt, because I assume it's one of his countless videos in which he just makes the same point over and over and over and over again in a redundant loop for six minutes), please let me know. Otherwise...

Guess what Jim? The specific complaint you're satirizing is the 'complaint' that comes from guys that are actually very HAPPY to have women playing video games and fantasizing about that meaning that it's because those women are attracted to them. It's selfish and silly, but...

You're making a freaking video about it???

What is the point? What is the point of making a video about random comment trolls? No, not even trolls; just people saying a potentially annoying thing a lot on forums.

How often do you even HEAR this silly fantasy posted or said aloud? This is a bad habit that Bob really suffers from; refuting 'some group opinion' without offering any citation of who it is that's saying it. And I'm sure SOMEONE is saying it; you can find any opinion conceptually possible expressed on the internet. Which raises the question once again: WHAT IS THE POINT?

Jim, please, in your next video, talk about people who post flaws in the video that a dozen people have already pointed out.

Then, do some biting satire on people who arrange their points into numbered lists for no reason.

After that, do a three-parter on users that write all in one paragraph.

...And then stop spreading your genius so thin that it renders you a petty whiner half the time. That really disappoints me and makes you look less brilliant than you are. Don't feel the need to make a video every single week for a show like this.

Or rather, get off of a website like the Escapist. I know this is a really douchebag thing to request, but I've long felt that this site sort of forces internet commentators to become a lot less creative than they really are. You, Bob and Yahtzee seem to have so much potential, that has to be choked down into videos the length of a lunch break.

With love,
Ultra Hammer

MortisLegio:
I never understood the "problem" with "girl gamers." I wish I could find a girl who knows anything about gaming or just wanted to play. I mean a girl that like the same things I do would be awesome... near impossible but awesome.

You got me, I've never met these so called "fake gamer girls", I don't even think I have met any "fake gamer guys" for that matter. How do you even identify these people from other gamers? is it the clothing? the way they talk? If you ask these "fake" people if they know who Zelda is and they don't, doesn't mean anything...it just tells me they probably haven't played the game not that they are fake. I just don't understand how people are even judging "fakeness", is there some kind of book with rules and regulations I am unaware of that lists things that only "real" gamers would know or do?

Sounds like its Time for a list of Measured Appropriate Responses to any given Issue. Just so we've got things Clear.

One Group Showing Interest in Another Group: Mild Apathy.
Group Shamming Newcomers: Mild Disgust to those doing the Shamming. Mild Protectiveness to the Shamed.
Group's Activity being caught out as having problematic Thematic/Stylistic Elements: Mild Disappointment to those who created Activity. But otherwise no Enjoyment lost from Enjoying it.

Lack of Genre Diversity*: WHY THE F*** ARE ALL THE MODERN WESTERN RPGS TRYING TO BE MASS EFFECT?! AS IF I WANTED ANOTHER GAME WITH SLOW MOVING MORONS! EITHER GIVE ME A GAME WITH TURN BASED COMBAT, OR LET ME ZIP ACROSS THE BATTLEFIELD LIKE A NINJA! GUYS, THIS IS WHY I'M BUYING JAPANESE LATELY!

(*Personal and Exaggerated Example to get Point Across, No offense intended to Mass Effect, I just don't have the patience for it.)

Company introduces Prohibitive Meassures: "Why Bother even using their Service? It's a Freaking Hastie!"

...

Notice a Pattern?

In an Enlightened Society, Minority Issues, as well as Gender, Sexuality, and other Related issues... Should be the thing we least have to worry about. We should be able to just let others enjoy what they want, and give Honest, Non Hostile Criticism of Franchises and their Flaws, Ideological or not, without Blowing up... While we all yell together and start Yelling about what Bulls*** those seeking a quick Buck are putting us through today, and why we haven't seen certain kinds of things lately.

Unfortunately... I guess we aren't an "Enlightened Society" yet, otherwise we'd be able to just give a whole Crowd of disapproving glares to Bigots and they'd Back off, knowing that Society's Values would be against them.

... That doesn't happen... To any extent as far as I'm aware... So I guess we have a while to go.

(P.S. Being United against Corporate BullS*** is probably a Great way to Unite People. Rage against a Common Foe is just as Good at Uniting People as Love is it seems. As Sad as it is to hear sometimes.)

You know I was tempted to write a reply and act like I had no idea why you made this episode or what issue this was supposed to be about, but I couldn't think of a way to make that work.

Oh well.

I'm sure there's people who fake an interest in things (not just games but anything) to get in with some crowd, but unless they're trying to sell me something then I don't care. Someone's pretending to enjoy themselves when they aren't? That sucks for them.

Also if you REALLY want to know if they're fake, wouldn't talking to them like they're the real thing work better than a quiz? If they're fake it'll probably show and if they're real then you don't have to look like a dick by interrogating them about it.

Hold up, didn't he have another video making the same point?

Dear Elton John, what have you done with Jim and what are your ransom demands?

yours truly,
-Gaemer4LiefHungHunk

Azaraxzealot:
Remember what happened to Metal in the 80s when it got all popular with the poseurs?

There were lots of new experimental and groundbreaking metal bands, despite the popularity of glam-metal?

The point is that these poseurs ARE hurting the culture, and once they exhaust themselves and get bored of it, they'll leave, leaving it devastated beyond recovery and putting us back in the underground with them making fun of us.

Except for the part about there being a greater diversity of games than ever before, and that gaming culture is thriving in all of its forms?

History shows this is what happens when an underground culture becomes popular then gets kicked out of the popular scene.

You might be referring to an alternate version of history which is completely made-up. Gaming has succeeded wildly over the last decade because of the connectivity of the internet, and the influx of new people with an interest in the hobby.

I think a more accurate reading of history would show that things die when they get ignored, not when they become popular or mainstream.

Beating on reanimated horse skeletons again, I see?

Slow day at the Jimquisition head office?

Got it out of your system yet?

DjinnFor:
Beating on reanimated horse skeletons again, I see?

Slow day at the Jimquisition head office?

Got it out of your system yet?

You never know... It might be fun To break the bones of a Reanimated Skeletal Horse every Lunar Cycle. Its a healthy way to vent Frustration at least.

*Gets Bat*

*Beats Horse*

Oh hey, I feel Better Already.

spplmj:
Aww man... from the title I thought he was going to talk about the Dudebro gamers that the majority of publishers seem to cater to now.

I was thinking that too, and I'm glad it wasn't.

Honestly if they're not the people who annoy everyone on voice chat, then why should we care?

Sure they make COD the biggest gaming franchise ever, and a ton of other publishers try to copy it and that kind of sucks. But if you're blaming COD fans for that your anger is misplaced.

Did I enjoy that? Did I enjoy seeing Jim absolutely lose his freaking mind? Hell's ****ing Yes I did!

Normally I dislike most of the "I will dismiss a minority completely but use another minority to claim a huge problem" thing that happens a lot on here but that video did crack me up... also I think I might like men now! ... or just Jim

Jim seems to have a habit of tricking me that the last show was his best and the following week, out comes a better, more thought-provoking show that drives the point straight home in an outrageously funny way. I love it! Thank God for Jim!

Great video, Jim, as is the norm.

I honestly appreciate that you'll take the time to make gender related videos, and tackle issues like homosexuality in games, even if some people are tired of it.

Keep talking about the thinks you feel should be talked about! You've become a heroic figure to me, taking on the controvercial topics!

After playing World of Warcraft for a good 5 years in a manner I would consider "unhealthy" I had the misfortune of encountering "GURRRRL Gamers" in their primordial form. It was simple, they used their status as females with sex-appeal in an attempt to garner attention or/and in-game favours from males who were unfamiliar with how to interact with women.

Really it was a specific form of "trolling". I didn't exactly enjoy the company of those females and I also didn't enjoy the company of the males their manipulations worked on.

The whole "gatekeeping" thing is something I've never engaged in as I've always been a better judge of character than to need to resort to that type of method to confirm my suspicions as to the nature of someone... it's also downright pathetic and rude.

As for the episode? Jim drew himself as a strawman and a pretty big strawman indeed. It's a scenario where the "victims" are just as bad as the "villains"... and like all situations where that is the case deserves to be ignored by the majority.

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