The Big Picture: The New Originals

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While I certainly plan on seeing Pacific Rim as soon as is physically possible (ie, slightly before midnight on this coming Thursday), to be honest I do take issue with the statement describing it as "original".

Because it's not.

It's basically a fusion of a handful of very common tropes in Japanese anime & kaiju films.

It's certainly new to Hollywood, but much as Bob resents the America-centric productions of Hollywood and embraces the more global perspective apparently ensconced within Pacific Rim, his piece here betrays that he suffers from that Hollywood-centric perspective in filmmaking.

I wanna see it purely cause its giant robots VS giant monsters.

that's pretty much the only reason to in all honesty

Innegativeion:

Well, supposedly, but it's by the District 9 guy.

Since humans have been telling stories for most of our existence, originality generally comes in the form of the telling rather than the theme. I'm pretty sure nearly every theme has been done.

Besides, class disparity is still pretty topical.

I forgot it was the District 9 guy. That makes it worth seeing.

The fact it's topical is what gives me pause. It seems like a lot of movies and the lot have included class disparity as of late. Most of the time they do so with little to say on the subject. So hopefully this one actually does have things to say instead of just being a revenge-fantasy flick.

It may be a new property, but I fail to see what's new in any way about Pacific Rim. Or Elysium, for that matter...

The issue I see, moreso than retreading established franchises, is that the order of the day in filmmaking tends to be loud 'splosions and overwrought spectacle with nothing relatable. Always bigger, ever more "epic" and vacuous.

Pan's Labyrinth was fascinating - will Del Toro ever again get to make another movie on that scale with that sort of intent? Doubtful.

How about we try to steer filmmaking away from the current Bay/Emmerich status quo by voting with our wallets? Anybody?

*tumbleweeds*

The World's End? Hell yes!
Pacific Rim? - Meh...

Seems just not very appealing to me. Of the movies del Toro made and I have seen I only consider Pans Labyrinth good. Then despite that there is probably something else going on the trailers very much concentrate on the giant robot action that would give Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay a giant boner.
The technology will probably lead to some neat development within the movie (some sort of memory melting stuff?) but the mere concept of having a robot that gets controlled by synchronized pilot just seems so very inefficient that it stops my suspension of disbelieve right before it gets even going.
And then it seems like the movie build up enough of buzz so it ain't going to miss my 7 Euros...

RatherDashing89:

hermes200:
I think videogames could benefit from the same speech.
We need some more new IPs. Even something flawed like Remember Me is preferable to the same generic grey and brown FPS that comes out of the pipeline.

With that said, I find it ironic that MovieBob is the one saying it. He is the guy that constantly defends Nintendo redoing (because they are not really reboots or remakes) the same games for the last 15 years and calling Mario with a raccoon costume "originality". It also makes his advertisement of his SMB3 book extra ironic, since that game (while a masterpiece at its time) has been remade so many times that Nintendo has a group of people constantly employed in creating 2D Mario levels.

If I remember correctly, his argument was not that the Mario iterations were original, but that Nintendo has earned the right to "rest on their laurels" instead of being expected to knock it out of the park every time. Which shouldn't prevent us from criticizing the games themselves, IMO, but anyway. Going to MovieBob for opinions regarding modern games reminds me of the AVGN at E3 a few years back commenting (genuinely) "Hey, there's a new Sonic game coming out! Should be cool." Both guys have a vast knowledge of older games but aren't really interested in modern gaming and thankfully don't comment on them much. (Yes, I know about the Game Overthinker. What I've watched of that doesn't really seem to address modern games a whole lot except to compare them to older stuff.)

He made a big picture recently on Bioshock Infinite, so I guess that, even when he has the fondest memories on past games, he keep himself relatively up to date with new games.
I know he might not be the best source of criticism concerning modern videogames, and I think videogames in general has been more successful at remaking or rebooting old franchises than movies (like Deus Ex, Tomb Raider or XCOM). I just can't help to point out the irony of someone ranting about the lack of original ideas and content in one medium, and then pulling a 180 to praise a game that started a trend of remaking itself constantly, and a company "resting on their laurels" for 25 years, in another medium (fair enough, the game is still a masterpiece, and its unfair to put blame on it for the reaction the creators took from its success, but its not like an entire book dedicated to it could forget to address the elephant in the room).
I guess it wouldn't be as noticeable if it wasn't because one video starts immediately after the other, but still...

Thank you for this episode, it's something that's been bothering me for a while now; no new exciting IPs being released first as movies. They're all loosely based on something, like current books or video games and the reboot and re-imagining that so many pieces of media are getting is making me throw up. Definitely will support Pacific Rim as much as I can.

I'd love to watch Pacific Rim this weekend but apparently it's gonna take the bicycle deliveryman three more weeks to tug that heavy movie reel all the way to a theatre near me.

I'm all for supporting original works, but I think it would've been better to do more of that instead of saying "Go see Pacific Rim! Go see it because it's an original work! Watch it because it's also probably good! Pacific Rim, new stuff, both good things! You should totally watch Pacific Rim (oh BTW movies x, y, and z are also original, go see them too) but seriously you guys, Pacific Rim!". I will say that it intrigues me despite a few things that would normally really bother me (mostly the two-person system, WTF, shouldn't it be 3 or 4 if it's more than one?). Personally I'm notably more excited for "The World's End" though.

Well, a friend invited me, and it'll be during my vacation, so I'm going. I was never feeling the hype though. I guess I haven't gotten over my boundless contempt for Hellboy 2.

So I'm not going for newness, but hey, I didn't see any of the reboots or whatever this summer either, so...

While I am really hoping to see this, it is derivative:

1) Evangellion

2) Robot Jox http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102800/

Robot Jox was a terrible, horrible movie but the control scheme for the robots from Pacific Rim are stolen directly from it.

If Robot Jox is as good a Giant Robot movies as we are going to get, we should never make another giant robot movie again. That film was an abomination.

I'm kinda surprised, I expected people to be complaining that Bob was encouraging originality for the sake of originality. I agree with him though, and I plan on seeing Pacific Rim with my friends when it comes out. Its getting ridiculous the amount of sequels and reboots in hollywood. We complain about it in video games but there are practically no movies coming out that aren't based on something, even if they are good

MacNille:
I almost feel asleep.

Not sure if genuine typo or cleaver Metal Gear joke

Bravo Bob. Great OP ED piece.

Magog1:

Count_A'ight:
This statement goes against what Bob was preaching but oh well. Everybody see Pacific Rim! Yeah it looks great and it has very positive buzz behind it but I'm seeing it for a different reason. If Pacific Rim does big business, Hollywood will scoop up any mech property that is ripe for a live action movie, like Gundam or Battletech or Robotech. Speaking of Robotech, Toby Maguire already bought the rights to live action Robotech, with plans to produce it. He got Lawrence Kasdan to write the script for the first movie. If Pacific Rim does good business, we will be seeing a live action Robotech soon after.

Has it occurred to anyone this in fact might be a terrible idea? Hollywood doing Robotech.
I mean it could be done anyone ever see Robo Jox. It's as good to a giant robot movie as your ever gonna get guys.

Ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Jox

Oh I agree that Hollywood would probably screw up a Robotech movie. Battletech/Mechwarrior would best work as a series...and not the semi-crappy cartoon they made a while back. A serious take on Mechwarrior would be like Game of Thrones with giant robots.

Robot Jox was awesome when I was a kid. It is appalling now. Seriously, Alexander's mech at the end had a chainsaw dick. That sounds awesome, but it is not. Though Robot Wars made Robot Jox look like a masterpiece.

YES! A great big stonking YES to this. YES!!!!!

Funcakes:
Elysium? Isn't that just another class disparity movie? Am I missing something?

Depends if you liked District 9 or not. You may also have had to survive the tedious agony that is In Time.

OT: You mention stagnation and regurgitation and then bring up The World's End? Simon Pegg being Simon Pegg in yet another Simon Pegg Movie isn't regurgitation?

Though you'll be happy to hear I'm going to be seeing Pacific Rim with my Father. Booking the tickets however has been nightmarish. I have a suspicion it's not going to be shown anywhere near us.

To sign off in four words - "Fuck you Odeon Cinema" X3

Bob, the only off putting thing I've had with Pacific Rim was your overselling it. It's past the point of tedious.

Though as others have said, slapping a new title on an old set of tropes does not originality make. I've been into anime long enough to see even the deconstructions become dated so to me it remains to be seen if I'm getting the biggest budget power rangers fight ever using G-Gundam tech, or if I'm going to want to go home to watch Godannar again.

I planned on seeing Pacific Rim no matter what Bob said. So wait, I thought Bob thought Man of Steel was merely OK overall? Then again, That Lone Ranger screenshot reminded me of his Pirates of the Caribbean 4 review, and I saw it anyway, and liked it.

I'm not paying to see this movie, I don't know if the movie is good or bad, but just watching the trailers makes me scream "EVANGELION RIP OFF!!!!" and well I can't see it , I won't enjoy it.

It bothers me A LOT that movie bob is calling this thing a new ip, something "fresh" I mean, probably for hollywood movies is "kind of new" but come on .... it is ripping Evangelion even in the poster

image

And as I saw the trailer it keeps ripping more and more, sorry I just ugh .... it's not original ok?

Then the fact that del toro is directing it makes it even worse, the only movie in wich I have fallen sleep in a cinema is hellboy, yeah i know a lot of people liked it, but I just don care for del toro directing.

Shadowsetzer:

Zero Serenity:
I was looking for a good analogy to convince my girlfriend to see this with me. Evangelion live action with no whiny emo teen lead? Yes please.

Nice to know I wasn't the only one getting this vibe. I was kind of wondering if someone had seen the idea for the (now scrapped?) live action Eva movie and decided to make an expy of it.

yeah. was the first thing i saw-i saw the kanji , i thought "angels" i saw the mecha, though-well, mecha. one looks a bit like eva 01 with this round thing on the head.
the sounds, some scenes looked like evangelionreal action movie.

well, i love eva, i like del toro (pans labyrinth <3)so i might watch this.. the last time i was in cinema was.. hmn i dont know, the alice in wonderland by burton(which sadly sucked)..so 3 years ago..

luvd1:
... Yes. I wonder if bob (now after watching the film) still feels the same, coz the reviews so far are not to complementary.

Not sure where you got that. Has a 85% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

Drauger:
I'm not paying to see this movie, I don't know if the movie is good or bad, but just watching the trailers makes me scream "EVANGELION RIP OFF!!!!" and well I can't see it , I won't enjoy it.

It bothers me A LOT that movie bob is calling this thing a new ip, something "fresh" I mean, probably for hollywood movies is "kind of new" but come on .... it is ripping Evangelion even in the poster

image

And as I saw the trailer it keeps ripping more and more, sorry I just ugh .... it's not original ok?

Then the fact that del toro is directing it makes it even worse, the only movie in wich I have fallen sleep in a cinema is hellboy, yeah i know a lot of people liked it, but I just don care for del toro directing.

When people are saying it's original they're not talking about its overarching stylistic choice or themes (which there's nothing original out there ever, everything is based on something before it) they're simply talking about how it isn't an adaptation, or a sequel.

There's no Pacific Rim manga or tv show to base it off of. It's not Pacific Rim 2. etc etc

TransEquus:
While I am really hoping to see this, it is derivative:

1) Evangellion

2) Robot Jox http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102800/

Robot Jox was a terrible, horrible movie but the control scheme for the robots from Pacific Rim are stolen directly from it.

Congratulations, you discovered that "giant robots" is a genre in and of itself, and there are plenty of examples of giant robot movies.

I'd bake you a cake for your achievement but you would probably complain the the cake was too much like every other cake because it was made of cake bread and covered in icing.

I can see this discussion devolving into what constitutes 'original'. Technically nothing is as everything is based on stuff that came before it. It's just the amount of sources and their popularity that change. However, I get what Moviebob is saying and he's really asking for more variation, not suggested these films were pulled from the ether...

I can't be the only person who isn't super excited about pacific rim, I might go see it but honestly, other than all the buzz that I've seen on the sites I frequent I haven't so much as clicked on a trailer for. Giant Robots, fighting giant monsters just seems so very very boring to me. Isn't that something that a jillion billion anime, books, and such has already done?

I get what Movie Bob says by original but I just can't get excited for the whole monsters vs giant robots. Maybe it's my inner nerd but the whole monsters vs giant robots seems like a bad idea. I'd just build a giant death ray, put it in orbit and then when ever a monster sticks his head out of his hidey hole I'd blast him. No muss no fuss, no annoying teenage robot pilots.

Eh... I get you, Bob. I really, really do. But what I hate about this is that I, a member of the British viewing public (which, let's face it, the Hollywood system has a low opinion of already - see the official response to the poor box office of "Epic") should bear the brunt of creative decisions based on my purchase of a 8($12) ticket on opening night (making a movie date for two cost more than a DVD purchase) just because the studios can't get their heads around a system by which nothing other than opening weekend sales count towards future decision making.

When I make the (quite literally, in the philosophical sense) rational choice to just wait to buy the DVD and watch it on my huge bloody flatscreen that I bought from the same parent corporation, I'm somehow the bad guy because I didn't express my support for originality in precisely the one exact way that the studio might, on a good day, listen to.

The whole damn system is wrong (insert Simpsons gif here)

Drauger:
It bothers me A LOT that movie bob is calling this thing a new ip, something "fresh" I mean, probably for hollywood movies is "kind of new" but come on .... it is ripping Evangelion even in the poster

And then, Evangelion is a "rip-off" of earlier mecha anime, not to mention countless Kaiju films.

Except of course it's not, it's a deliberate attack on the overt militarism in certain strains of mecha anime (most notably the various Gundam properties). Hence that weird ending which pissed a lot of people off, it did so on purpose.

See, you can borrow an idea and add your own spin on it. In fact, that's kind of what Hollywood does most of the time.

Are you sure that, rather than identifying a rip-off, you're not just spotting a reference to a cult classic. Maybe, rather than some evil outsider stealing your precious special genres for their own, someone actually set out to make a film which referenced things they like and which you also like, with visual clues which you would notice and pick up on and possibly get some kind of smug enjoyment out of because you noticed something which would go over the head of the "average moviegoer".

Sorry, I just don't get how it disrupts your enjoyment, particularly since its potential success will probably lead to more films of genres you like.

Ok Bob, I'll give Pacific Rim a chance if I can find the time to go see it.

When I want originality and newness, I read books. When I want painfully flat, badly slapped together, regurgitated bullshit, I beat myself over the head with a stick until it knocks some sense into me and then I go read another book. The times when I go see a movie in theaters are rare occasions and while I did love The Faun's Labyrinth and I consider Del Toro a very talented director, somehow I think I'll pass on this one. At least until it's at the cheaper theaters.

Makes a video encouraging the support of originality.
Makes a book worshiping the current poster boy of nostalgia and stagnation in the games industry.

Just saying.

If I do see a film in the coming weeks, I'll be seeing this one.

Fifty-One:
With you 100% on this one Bob. Besides, what other movie shows a giant robot smashing a giant monster over the head with a battle cruiser?

It's not a movie, but Neon Genesis Evangelion has that.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcop8bWdxl1rhiga3o1_500.jpg

Pacific rim. Original. Ha, ha ha. Good one.
Oh wait you were serious, come on Giant robots verses monsters. What was giant shark Vs mega octopus pioneering.
I know it's new IP but so were Oblivion and After Earth. And you didn't tell people to see those.

I've only really loved Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth so far. I like Hellboy. Hellboy 2 was uneven, though I would like to see a Hellboy 3 to see where it goes from here.

That written, giant, human powered robots fighting giant monsters is Manga stuff. Seen cartoons about it. I'm interested, and Bob's enthusiasm is contagious, but I'm not sold. I do want to know what people think of this before I plunk down my hard earned cash (and more importantly, my time) to see it.

Del Toro and Edgar Wright are two filmmakers that have yet to make a film I dislike.
I plan on seeing Pacific Rim, I plan on LOVING World's End, and I also still need to see Cloud Atlas.

Oh, and I want to watch Despicable Me 2, but that sort of goes against what he was saying here.

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