ARTARTARTARTFART

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ARTARTARTARTFART

We solve this dispute once and for all.

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I've Read this "comic"

...

It's actually quite nice and agree with it's message :)

Need to reverse your 'b'.
;P

OT:
I tend to agree.
I USED to be of the 'B-B-U-BU-BUT ICO IS ART!' crowed, then I grew up and realized there's NO point in trying to kiss the asses of critics.

So, who is ready for another rousing forum discussion of games and art? I know I'm not, so I'm gonna go get a waffle. Let me know how it plays out.

Holy shit, Cory's art has come a long way since those days :D

He's gotten really good, the improvement is astounding.

I don't know why we keep trying to get the approval of people who don't care about games in the first place.

It's like trying to convince someone who has no interest in football that it's not just a pasttime to yell at the screen for a couple of hours.

WELL WHY SHOULDN'T WE...I mean...but the media...

Well, yes, you are right, but honestly, I'm a rather unstable gentleman, and I simply detest the mere idea of someone who disagrees with me with such blatant stupidity going unharmed.

*Blows on bubble pipe*

I have to wonder why we should even give a shit whether or not we get the elusive and utterly arbitrary "art" label.

Pssh, I was totally on-board with your argument and its reasons, until that disgustingly dismissive "Deal With It" ending. Only douches do that man, you really need a decent PR department.

For the most part I don't care if the general public sees one of my hobbies as childish; right up to the point where it gets scapegoated every time something bad happens and lawmakers attempt to ban it and try and say it's more dangerous than guns.

Yeah, I always did wonder why we listened to a film critic on whether or not video games were or weren't art, when he wouldn't know anything about it.

It's like asking a painter if the plumbing and electrics are done right.

Well said Grey, and well drawn Cory. =w= b

I will remember that phrase.
And I got one for movies.
"I saw that movie. It's cutscenes were pretty good, but even Metal Gear has more gameplay."
Disclaimer: I LOVE Metal Gear!

I read the bible once, the controls were shit.

Games are still good and fun to play, so personally I don't care if some critics don't believe it's art.

Love you, Ebert, but I don't agree with you on this count. Hope that you and Gene Siskel are bashing some good movies in the afterlife, though. :)

Thank you for making this comic strip guys. Truly, you deserve a montage.

canadamus_prime:
I have to wonder why we should even give a shit whether or not we get the elusive and utterly arbitrary "art" label.

Luckily, we already have it. But as to why we need it, in the United States at least, it gives us protection against censorship due to being protected speech. That is a very, very important distinction. I actually do not at all agree with them that "art" is a label that is arbitrary, not when there are immense legal ramifications at stake.

OT: As for pleasing critics of other media, who cares? No one asks a music critic to rate a restaurant or a movie critic to rate a book unless they have expertise in both disciplines. Frankly, critics of other media are simply unqualified to give an informed opinion.

Daystar Clarion:
Holy shit, Cory's art has come a long way since those days :D

He's gotten really good, the improvement is astounding.

Well, that was one of his first strips. It's fairly common to see a wast difference between early strips and the newest one in a comic that's been consistently maintained for years.

Still, if you think that's a massive improvement, you should see some of the webcomics that I've seen.

It's still good, though. He's clearly become better at it.

So good. This might be my favorite Critical Miss yet!

But, always remember. Those who can't do, teach... and those who can't teach, critique

Daystar Clarion:
Holy shit, Cory's art has come a long way since those days :D

He's gotten really good, the improvement is astounding.

Agreed, last Friday's comic lacked structure and cohesion...please don't report me

Would you feel like an artist if you were told exactly what to make comics about, how they are to be scripted and exactly how to draw them? I wouldn't. Same applies to games.

canadamus_prime:
I have to wonder why we should even give a shit whether or not we get the elusive and utterly arbitrary "art" label.

Same reason anyone acts like labels mean things: Government funding.

Product Placement:

Daystar Clarion:
Holy shit, Cory's art has come a long way since those days :D

He's gotten really good, the improvement is astounding.

Well, that was one of his first strips. It's fairly common to see a wast difference between early strips and the newest one in a comic that's been consistently maintained for years.

Still, if you think that's a massive improvement, you should see some of the webcomics that I've seen.

It's still good, though. He's clearly become better at it.

I'm aware that it's one of the earlier comics, I've been reading them since day 1 after all :D

There IS one valid reason to want to draw the respect of critics: non-gamers listen to them on the idea of what is and isn't worth indulging in (not that I think this is a good thing, but it's how things are for the moment). If gaming is going to draw general respect, and with it examination, funding as an artform and protection from idiots who want to censor everything they don't like, it needs popular opinion behind it.

I don't think there should be any question as to whether games are art, but that's what we have to deal with now. Video games skyrocketing popularity occurred when many big name critics were grown. They see it as a kids thing because kids got into it. Once the generations that grew up on video games reach similar prominence, I suspect we'll see a change.

This comic lacks in gameplay and emmersion. The cinematics aren't that good either.

OT: I'm guessing something like a certain webcomic made you want to strangle people who claim what art is and isn't?

It's why we should feel privileged that we can enjoy the merrits of movies, literature, AND games.

I think this is one of your best strips ever. Extremely insightful. Our complexes, our industry, our immaturity and our adolescence, all condensed in three comic strips.

Absolutely masterful.

Bravo!

Captcha: rain go away
You know it's July and I'm in Greece, don't you Captcha? What rain? It's the middle of the freaking summer and I am in one of the most popular summer destinations in the world...

I think 'thomas was alone' is propaply one of the best examples of games as art as:
1. it has a clear story that is easy to follow.
2. it is emotional without ever seeming like it forcing it.
3. the characters have an arc.

and most importantly.

4. gameplay, effects/reflects both the story and the characters, the gameplay is not a mere tool to get to the next point in the story, and characters never do anything in gameplay that would contradict their personalities (in fact their gameplay is what their personalities/character relations are based of).

I agree with this comic, and that's something I never thought I'd say.

What I think we should do is stop trying to make games fit some arbitrary label and just keep doing what we're doing. By trying to make games more like movies (this is for you David Cage) we demean the entire medium. It sends the message that it can't stand on it's own and needs other mediums to support itself. And for what? To impress some snooty twat-racket who never scored a Pump Action/Afterburner combo in Bulletstorm in his life?

In short; We just need to stop giving a fuck.

I've read books, too scripted, no optional paths, just a hallway of text (except in Fighting Fantasy gamebooks, which are awesome)

This strip was awesome, why do some gamer's try to appeal to critics who obviously care little about games (which are always outside of their area of expertise)

TizzytheTormentor:
I've read books, too scripted, no optional paths, just a hallway of text (except in Fighting Fantasy gamebooks, which are awesome)

This strip was awesome, why do some gamer's try to appeal to critics who obviously care little about games (which are always outside of their area of expertise)

book noob, go read some choose your own adventure books.

I kind of long for the day when art goes back to just meaning the work you did.

ticklefist:
Would you feel like an artist if you were told exactly what to make comics about, how they are to be scripted and exactly how to draw them? I wouldn't. Same applies to games.

Many portraits of people were made under the direction of the people paying the painter, they are still considered art today.

Indeed, they lack any kind of reader interaction or even motivation on our part. Though that choose your own adventure, man, the gameplay was really old school.

In any event, I've never been sure what the deal was. The only difference between games and movies is the degree of audience interaction. Does a higher degree of interaction make something cease to be art? Does the ability to choose alternate dialogue make the dialogue any less so? I can understand them not liking the form, like I do not enjoy modern art in most of its form (garbage). But I understand that it is art that other people appreciate.

Personally, while I do see videogames as an art form, I don't think they're the same kind of art as movies. Just like movies aren't the same kind of art as books, and books aren't the same kind of art as video games.

They each offer something that the others can't in some way. To me, it doesn't make sense to be saying that one is inherently better than the others. Sure, I do prefer video games to other forms of medium, but that's just me.

Daystar Clarion:
Holy shit, Cory's art has come a long way since those days :D

He's gotten really good, the improvement is astounding.

Yeah, looking at his old comics is really weird these days.

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