Escapist Podcast: 102: Open World Games & Batman in Man of Steel Sequel

102: Open World Games & Batman in Man of Steel Sequel

This week, we discuss the move of many next-gen games to open world and the SDCC announcement that Batman will appear in the Man of Steel sequel. We also discuss spoilers.

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Seriously guys are you going to fix the video freezing at 10:54 ever?

I have a friend that believes that if a movie has been out for longer than 6 months then it's fair game to spoil. I've had many movies spoiled because of her. Like the part in the Avengers where...

...and I wasn't a happy camper when she just let that go. I will admit only a real handful of them I actually cared about, and most of them were movies I had no intension of seeing anyways and just let her spoil them.

If it's something I want to experience myself then I'm really sensitive to spoilers because to me that still ruins the experience, but if it's something I couldn't care less about then spoil away.

Darth Sea Bass:
Seriously guys are you going to fix the video freezing at 10:54 ever?

Oh good, it's not just me lol. When it happens, just put your cursor on the video-time-bar-thing on 10:55 and it'll go on like nothing happened.

KefkaCultist:

Darth Sea Bass:
Seriously guys are you going to fix the video freezing at 10:54 ever?

Oh good, it's not just me lol. When it happens, just put your cursor on the video-time-bar-thing on 10:55 and it'll go on like nothing happened.

Oh i know how to get round it, It's just kind of annoying though. :/

Yes, the 10:54 glitch just moved from funny to annoying. Sometimes my cursor won't sit on 10:55, so I miss some seconds.

Music and aliens: Mars Attacks! had the whole country music being a weak spot for the martians. I also remember somewhere in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books or radio shows there was this massive rock band that was so loud that they had to play from space when they went to a planet because the sound just obliterated the ground or something like that.

Darth Sea Bass:

KefkaCultist:

Darth Sea Bass:
Seriously guys are you going to fix the video freezing at 10:54 ever?

Oh good, it's not just me lol. When it happens, just put your cursor on the video-time-bar-thing on 10:55 and it'll go on like nothing happened.

Oh i know how to get round it, It's just kind of annoying though. :/

Hmm, I'll email our IT department to let them know about it; hopefully we can find a solution soon. My first suggestion will be to try clearing out your cache before listening to the podcat to see if that helps clear up the 10:54 glitch.

So random stab at the spoiler formula without informed consent to spoil.

If RQ/TI < 1 than you can spoil

T = Time since its released (for more recent media use months, older media use years)
Q = Quality of work 1-10 (1 = Sharknado, 10 = Citizen Kane)
R = Its relevance to the subject 0-10 (0 = doesn't care, 10 = boarder-line religion)
I = Negative impact to the overall work if spoiled 1-10 (1 does nothing, 10 is major/central plot hook/twist)

For those of you who don't have itunes and also have trouble with the RSS audio version is here.

http://www.themis-media.com/videos/get/0/e15a29097a5b663fa43b258772591ecc/7802.mp3

TAdamson:
For those of you who don't have itunes and also have trouble with the RSS audio version is here.

http://www.themis-media.com/videos/get/0/e15a29097a5b663fa43b258772591ecc/7802.mp3

That never works for me. It just stops at some point.

On spoilers: I think that the type of movie is also a highly important factor that hasn't been put in the equation.

Anyway good podcast guys, thoroughly enjoyed it.

Lieju:

TAdamson:
For those of you who don't have itunes and also have trouble with the RSS audio version is here.

http://www.themis-media.com/videos/get/0/e15a29097a5b663fa43b258772591ecc/7802.mp3

That never works for me. It just stops at some point.

That happens for me too, just skip forward a few seconds.

There's at least one more factor in the whole spoiler thing that you didn't touch on at all: regions.

Game of thrones for example is not being broadcast by any channel where I live and the DVD's don't come out until a full year after the season has ended in the U.S. Translation: I can't legally watch season 3 until early summer next year. Thus creating this weird situation where pretty much every website I visit is abuzz with red weddings and whatnot while, for all intents and purposes, season 2 just ended for me. Greaaaaat...

I'm surprised Fight Club wasn't mentioned in their conversation of spoiler, because the spoiler ruins the entire movie but not knowing it has such an impact, its also much better a second time through.

Final Fantasy going 90% open world = :(

I realize I'm in the minority here but I prefer the enclosed storytelling involved in the FF type RPG to those of a Fallout/Oblivion. Open world typically means poor character development with 500 tiny stories (20 of which might be intriguing). Open world also means that there is little to no feeling of a lasting impact on the world.

I can only speak in generalities of course. For all I know FF will be open in the way that FF2 & FF3 were for the SNES in that you could explore certain regions but it still had a character driven story with an impact on the world.

Criticising a story for not being good when you don't experience it the way it was meant to is a bit unfair.

I like mysteries, and in them spoilers can ruin the experience. I lost all interest in Shutter Island when it was spoiled for me.

As for spoilers, it's not just how long something has been out, but rather how likely it is your target audience is aware of it. Some little known foreign mystery story from a decade ago is probably not as well known than a big Hollywood movie from a few months ago.

Attack on Pacific Rim is an amazing combo.
I'd watch its anime.

You can loose some stuff from spoilers but I don't mind to much.

WMDogma:

Hmm, I'll email our IT department to let them know about it; hopefully we can find a solution soon. My first suggestion will be to try clearing out your cache before listening to the podcat to see if that helps clear up the 10:54 glitch.

I download the mp4 video file directly and watch it offline... and it still happens then as well, so it is a problem with the file itself.

I am actually torn on spoilers, and for 2 very distinct reasons either:

1.
a spoiler is taking a subsection of a story, and placing it out of context, or by delivering the story out of sequence so that it does not have the same impact/suspense.

so basically if you think of spoilers in this way its kind of like hearing the puch-line to the joke before you hear the setup. like a spoiler of "characterX is killed by characterY" that on it's own shouldn't mean anything because knowing that characterX is going to die (depending of the genre: if horror/slasher then 50-90% of the lead cast is expendable anyways, if action/adventure then 10-50% of the lead cast is expendable, but only for pivotal encouragement, but I digress cause I could be here all day) is just going to be one portion of one scene, but the act of the character dying isn't important it is: what they were doing, who killed them, why they were killed, and foremost how they died.

knowing that characterX is going to betray their friends again doesn't mean anything, but: why they betrayed them, how did they betray them, and what price was paid by who for this betrayal. these are the important parts, so if you wore to say "and then this character betrays their team" you aren't actually saying anything. you haven't modified my enjoyment of the content all you have done is just engaged more question into my mind, and told me you don't know how to tell a story, or a joke.

or 2.
a spoiler literally removes all potential investment to the work then why was the work even supposed to be of interest anyways. this also lends itself to the instance of a movie/show/book you can only consume once, or else it has no value.

if we dissect this logically based on what (Justin? [one on far left] I am so bad with names I will not go into that issue) was saying if the spoiler literally destroys the ability to consume the piece meaningfully then was it really worthwhile for it to be a "secret" in the first place. I know that even Bob has chastised directors/writers/movies for having their movie being completely based around a single "twist" so that once you know it that's it, "nothing else is of value here".

what does this really infer to the viewer/consumer the content essentially saying "I got a secret, but I'm not going to tell you till later if at all" over, and over, and over.... again. basically is the same as that same content calling me a stupid child.

I think the reason that most spoiler have no effect on me is that I really haven't seen/heard/read a piece of content where knowing one pivotal part completely modified my enjoyment of it. like with Into Darkness know who the bad guy was/is didn't do anything because you have just given me a name (yes I know the majority of that character's back story, and considering my aforementioned issue with names) you haven't told me anything about why I should care.

how about this the next time you go to put down a spoiler how about instead you don't just give the one line "characterX gets killed by characterY" give the actual scene. tell the reading who these people were, tell the reader why they were killed, tell the reader how it happened, tell the reader why we should even care that the person died in the first place.


this form not only allows the read of your spoiler to have a sense of caring for what is going on, but also gives them still an amount of unknowns that they could still enjoy the content themselves.

Too many times these spoiler don't damage the content the way so many people artificially think they do they just point out the value personX has at telling/relaying a story, or it just says how dumb that scene in the content even was, or worse yet how dumb the content was to begin with. because sometimes knowing plot-twistX doesn't destroy the movie for me it allows me to consume the content completely once, or know if the content is even worth seeing.

If I avoided spoilers then I would have seen movies like "The Life of Pie", and been pissed off that no buddy told me how much crap it was.

The important point for me with spoilers is that seeing/reading something knowing spoiler information is a different experience to seeing/reading it without the spoiler information.

Maybe both experiences are really fun, or the spoiled version is even more fun... But if it hadnt been spoiled for me I could have experienced it without spoilers and then also experienced it with the spoiler knowledge. Two enjoyable experiences, and the opportunity for one of them would have been completely ruined if Id received spoilers.

Another interesting thought came up as a side note in the discussion, too - is the "time limit" idea on spoilers still valid for something that is changing formats? I think the specific example from the podcat that made me think of it was a story from comics that is now the probable basis for a movie. Ive had plenty of time to read the comic if I wanted... but I dont particularly enjoy comics. I do enjoy movies. Is it still ok to spoil the movie because the story existed in comics for a long time?

bliebblob:
There's at least one more factor in the whole spoiler thing that you didn't touch on at all: regions.

You're completely right. It's not cool to spoiler things for people that they can't watch at all or have to wait for. That's a complete exception to any other spoiler rule.

Otherwise, I'm surprised nobody is offended by my cavalier approach to spoilers. I guess that means I should just carry on, then.

Shinsei-J:
Attack on Pacific Rim is an amazing combo.
I'd watch its anime.

You can loose some stuff from spoilers but I don't mind to much.

Very awesome!

JonB:

bliebblob:
There's at least one more factor in the whole spoiler thing that you didn't touch on at all: regions.

You're completely right. It's not cool to spoiler things for people that they can't watch at all or have to wait for. That's a complete exception to any other spoiler rule.

Actually, I feel it's pretty justified as the alternative is completely unreasonable. You can't seriously expect the whole internet to keep it's mouth shut for a full year, especially if it's about something as prominent in current pop culture as game of thrones. Heck, discussing this kind of stuff while it's still hot from the oven is at the base of many entertainment news sources' revenue, possibly even this one.

On the other hand it's also not reasonable to expect people in my position to just deal with it. When something is as big of a deal as the red wedding, spoilers can and will pop up pretty much anywhere: news, facebook, even webcomics. Making your only failsafe option not going online at all, which isn't realistic either.

If anyone is "at fault" it's whoever is forcing this delay between regions, but even that's debatle as not doing so would probably mean cheating themselves out of a good chunk of profit.

So yeah... Quite the cacaphony huh? :) Might make a good topic for another podcast, as it also ties into possibly justified piracy and the idea of oceans on the internet.

*Gurren Lagan spoilers and Knights of the Old Republic spoilers below*

*warning*

Ok so I believe that Gurren Lagan is still good to rewatch after knowing that Kamina dies and the scope of the show keeps on going uphill until you're dealing with the whole universe, but I would never tell anyone that beforehand. And if someone was going to watch it or I was advising someone to, as my friends told me before I saw it, to not read ANYTHING about it beforehand. Because I can appreciate that the experience is different when you share Simon's mindset that Kamina is invincible and that he couldn't possibly die so it's such a shock for it to come out of nowhere. Also, the spectacle of the ever-growing scope, scale and stakes of the show is presented in a great way such that it would lose a lot of impact and value if you are just waiting through the mountain-sized robot battles to see the planet-sized ones for eg.

On the other hand, I knew the "twist" of Knights of the Old Republic when I played for the first time a few months ago just because I had heard of it and that did have some details that were interesting to see with the knowledge of why they happened. Like when your main companion that is in on your false memories about halfway though the game will suddenly ask you about details of your (fake) past out of the blue - because you know that she's nervous your fake memories might be wearing off. Knowing the twist beforehand did not prevent the experience from being good because even the reveal is done very well even if you already knew it.

*Gurren Lagan and Knights of the Old Republic spoilers above*

Honestly, I don't think spoilers necessarily completely ruin things for me, but I will lose all immersion knowing they're there. Like, if someone says "Movie X was pretty good, but I hate those plot twists where you find out the main character was just dreaming. I wish they didn't have that for an ending," Movie X can still be freaking amazing, but I'll spend the whole time trying to figure out how that dream ending fits in with everything. It won't have the same effect.

As far as time until things are spoiled? I was reading a random thing on Mass Effect 3. Since I haven't played that yet, it was nice when spoilers were hidden, so I could avoid them. So, personally, unless it's a classic that's being spoiled by an English teacher somewhere, I'd rather light warning ("Everyone's seen Movie X, right?" is kinda nice, and should give away what you're about to say) first. Of course, if you're just eavesdropping on someone's conversation, and they spoil the movie for you, try focusing on some other noise if you don't want it spoiled. Random people in Starbucks should be able to chat about Movie X the second they watch it (not sure what else Starbucks is good for, anyway) and not have to worry about spoiling it for someone who isn't part of the conversation (plus, if you don't know they're talking about Movie X, it may not be about Movie X).

Moving to open world is logical. Now we have more power and finally can do something more than a narrow corridor that despawns as soon as you turn a corner, so we can finally have bi and open environments that allow the player to choose his approach instead of forcing it on a rollercoaster.

Stardrive.... it was a fun game, but after like 5 games it becomes very repetative and kinda boring, since its quite "gota go this way or get crushed" deal.

Microsoft defending the privacy: The government does not care. they can force them by law, they can do that without asking. hacking into a regular persons computer is not that hard, its just that 99,99% of the time there is absolutely nothing of value there. the ONLY way to be 100% secure is to never connect to internet. some people will do that, yes, the rest, well, you got a webcam in your home that is a standart, hence easier to program a worm for as you dont need to account for variuos models. An frankly, if government wanted to see me masturbating, the heck do i care.

Spoilers: i dont mind spoilers unless i know im going to see it soon. like i didnt lsiten to pacific rim cast sicne i knew im going to wathc it on saturday. but beside i usually forget the spoilers intentionally or something. and they dont ruin the movie for me, its the journey thats important, nto the ending.
and i do think there sohuld be an expiry date. if a movie is out 20 years, everyone that really cared already saw it, the rest should be ok with spoilers. i mean sure i watched the usual suspect in like 2008 (and it wanst spoiled for me before), but i wouldnt have screamed "How dare you spoil a 15 year old movie" if somone did.

 

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