Removing One's Rocks

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This would be reason number 1 as to why I don't bother criticizing random stuff people like such as Twilight, cause I myself have been into things just as stupid

lacktheknack:

Piorn:
At least I don't read my porn/VN/Doujin in public/living room or tell everybody about it.

Would you be horrified if I told you I saw a dude hiding his face in a bus, reading 50 Shades of Grey?

OT: Heh. Heh heh. Erin's expression is priceless.

Pshhh. My friends read that shit in the middle of class

Loonyyy:

Problem being the presentation. The book is marketed as a romance, the author claims it's a romance, and it's sold as one and taken as one, and that's been the pop culture reaction to it.

How does it being sold as romance change anything? Have you taken a look at the romance genre? It has always been full of ridiculous tales. Romance books are packed to the brim with "nonconsent" stories for centuries. i.e. A woman gets raped and ends up loving it.

How could things get anymore irresponsible than that?

However, it doesn't matter because it's fantasy. It isn't real. And romance novels aren't meant to be instructional how-to guides.

cynicalsaint1:

So where to couples go to learn about how to act out their BSDM fantasies without it getting abusive or even becoming rape?

You're an exceptionally rude person, so I'm just going to address a couple silly things you've said.

They could read an actual how-to BDSM guide. Or join a group with others who practice, every city in the western world is guaranteed to have at least one if you go looking for them.

It is not as if 50 Shades of Grey (an absurdly delusional novel where the portrayal of BDSM isn't the most ludicrous thing by far) is the only readily available source for this stuff. In the digital era, there exists countless forums and online communities one could go to for actual understanding.

Finally, by your rationale we could never compare anything. There is no absolute equivalence, you could compare two toys off the same assembly line and there will be real anomalies between them, but that kind of thinking is absurd, same as yours.

Fiction is full of unrealistic depictions of everything, from spaceships to eating. To hold one silly little romance book to high standards of safe realism despite everything else we let slide is hypocritical and harmful in itself.

And this is all ignoring the fact that in the book itself the characters improper pseudo-BDSM relationship ends up causing them to have all sorts of problems. It is no more the writers fault if some silly people imitate that than anything else.

Hah, "Touch Fluffy Tail". Nice!

Grey Carter:
Removing One's Rocks

Actually, no. Not a better love story than Twilight.

Read Full Article

I don't know. I mean, the 'love' story in Twilight has a 100+ year old guy stalking a high schooler, thinks sparkles = monster, goes on super violent tirades, and physically abuses his 'love', all the while the 'heroine' does nothing except think that the abuse is her fault, and her one act of standing up for herself is to decide to not get an abortion that would save her life.

Gonna go ahead and say Erin's Japanese dating sim is a better love story than that tripe (as well as 50 Shades, seeing as it's Twilight fan fiction).

Jumwa:

They could read an actual how-to BDSM guide. Or join a group with others who practice, every city in the western world is guaranteed to have at least one if you go looking for them.

The problem with the former is it is a fair step further than reading a fictional novel about the subject. Wanting to know how it's done is generally step taken after trying to figure out if it is something you'd even want to try. While various kink groups do exist, they are, by and large, on the fringes of society.

Someone looking to dip their toe into a bit of bedroom kink is likely not going to be comfortable with groups that regularly include the kink as a part of any gathering, many of which feature on-premises action. Worse still, if you happen to be a single male, you aren't welcome. So, actually, there are lots of reasons why someone wouldn't want to do what you suggest.

Jumwa:

It is not as if 50 Shades of Grey (an absurdly delusional novel where the portrayal of BDSM isn't the most ludicrous thing by far) is the only readily available source for this stuff.

It is far and away the most famous work portraying the subject.

Jumwa:

Finally, by your rationale we could never compare anything. There is no absolute equivalence, you could compare two toys off the same assembly line and there will be real anomalies between them, but that kind of thinking is absurd, same as yours.

False equivalence is a classic rhetorical fallacy. In your case, you attempt to draw equivalence between someone playing a game (for example) and learning violent actions and reading a book dealing, in large part, with BDSM and using it as a source of ideas.

The basis for a claim of false equivalence is fairly significant. Starting with the most obvious, you are attempting to draw a link between two different media consumed for two different purposes leading to two very different end states. Moreover, that end state is of profound importance - while BDSM may exist in a legal gray area (no pun intended) in many parts of the world, unabashed violence directed at your fellow man is frowned upon openly in every corner of the world.

Creating a valid equivalence for argument relies upon finding two examples of something with an obvious and provable link; you're just grasping at straws with your example.

Jumwa:

Fiction is full of unrealistic depictions of everything, from spaceships to eating. To hold one silly little romance book to high standards of safe realism despite everything else we let slide is hypocritical and harmful in itself.

BDSM is an activity that any two people could consent to and then engage in using only the objects likely already on their person. By contrast, building and then piloting a spaceship is far outside the realm of what the average person is going to be able to accomplish. Having the most famous book on the subject ever written in the English language means that lots of people are going to read it specifically to learn about a subject loaded with taboos.

When the book is chock full of lots of stuff that is dangerous to all involved, that becomes a problem. The catch is that the group who reads the book for information is self-selected to all but ensure they won't be able to identify the parts it gets wrong.

Jumwa:

And this is all ignoring the fact that in the book itself the characters improper pseudo-BDSM relationship ends up causing them to have all sorts of problems. It is no more the writers fault if some silly people imitate that than anything else.

No one blames the writer for anything other than bad writing. There does not appear to be any malice on her part or even intent that the book be used as a guide. But, again, when you reach the level of popularity that 50 Shades of Grey has, the author's intent becomes lost and largely irrelevant in the argument.

Jumwa:

Loonyyy:

Problem being the presentation. The book is marketed as a romance, the author claims it's a romance, and it's sold as one and taken as one, and that's been the pop culture reaction to it.

How does it being sold as romance change anything?

Because it's about how the story is presented, and is interpreted by a large number of people. I'm not complaining about depicting unrealistic scenarios or abusive relationships. I'm objecting to the depiction of abusive relationships as an ideal, and to the despicable portrayals of mental illness and BDSM. If the story was meant to be about an abusive relationship, and was marketed, and written as such, it wouldn't get this complaint. It's the context. MacBeth is a great work in which many horrible characters treat each other abominably, however, it's meant to be about that, and at no point does the play stop for the characters to soliliquise about how good abusive people and circumstances are. FSOG could be a great satire. But it's not how it's presented.

Have you taken a look at the romance genre?

Yes. Presumably since I answered this question I can ignore the rest of the rant, since clearly someone would only be this presumptuous, rude, arrogant and dismissive if my argument would fall apart if I answered "No"? No? Ok then. The irony of you making this statement in full admission of having little knowledge of the text in question is more than a little ironic. "Have you taken a look at FSOG, and domestic violence?" would be my response, were I feeling similarly rhetorical and poorly reasoned.

It has always been full of ridiculous tales. Romance books are packed to the brim with "nonconsent" stories for centuries. i.e. A woman gets raped and ends up loving it.

Duh. In fact, the very site I linked has discussions of that very topic. And I'm well aware of nonconsent, and dubious consent etc. The question of consent is a good one, since Grey in the story threatens to rape her, and then tries to manipulate her into agreeing to do things she doesn't want sexually. Which is abominable. Which is then presented as a romantic ideal.

Oh, you mean to compare the two? Sorry, I don't have to judge every book ever fucking written to criticise one. I'll judge them on their own merits if there's a requirement, but that's just an attempt to justify a wrong with other wrongs. Do I have to explain why that's fallacious? Because if I do, there's no point in discussing anything, it won't go anywhere.

How could things get anymore irresponsible than that?

1.) Presentation. There's a difference between depicting something and glamorising it. I'm claiming that FSOG glamorises abusive relationships.
2.) Some of that stuff is abhorrent. Doesn't make this any better.

Just for the example, since you managed to make the mistake twice: Since Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, and Justin Bieber happened, nothing I do can be judged, because by comparison, I'm insignificant, and anyone who tried to judge me would have to give substantive criticisms of everyone else that someone was willing to bring up. Obviously, this argument is fallacious.

However, it doesn't matter because it's fantasy.

It does if you think that media has any effect on society. And I've no problem with fantasies. It's the presentation of this fantasy. Please aim to discuss the things I have said, rather than those you'd wished I'd said.

It isn't real.

So THAT'S why it was in the fiction section! NOW IT MAKES SENSE.

And romance novels aren't meant to be instructional how-to guides.

Never claimed that they were. Again, you've missed the point. Which seems to be a trend. It's entirely possible that you don't think media has any influence on society, because you don't pay attention to it. Heck, it seems you didn't pay attention to my post.

I really love manga and anime, but what I love about it is mostly the drawing style and art aesthetics, particularly the older stuff that got me into it (for context, I'm talking about stuff from the the 70's and 80's because I'm old fart compared to a lot others on these forums). However, what I have come to hate about manga and anime is the grotesque over-saturation of the content into what I call high-school musicals. There's just too much focus on high-school students and high-school relationships. I don't mind that sort of thing on occasion, but anime and manga, at least much of what I see imported here to America, has become almost entirely nothing but high-school musicals. From the view of a lot of anime and manga, once you're past the age of 22, you may as well just lie down in a grave because you're life is dead anyway, nothing happens after that (true for some, not for others; depends almost entirely on how you choose your life going forward).

What I would like to see would be more ordinary stories, like just ordinary sic-fi and fantasy novels (or even ordinary drama and romance novels), turned into manga and anime. In my opinion, manga and anime are not genres; they are formats of artistic style and expressive idioms. The themes, settings, subject matter, and characters that can be portrayed in anime and manga can be damn near anything you want. It's not truly limited to all these high-school musicals with nothing but high-school students and high-school teachers. Unfortunately, over the years, anime and manga have become pigeon-holed into exactly that, the genre of cutesy high-school musicals, and I think it's a same, because, in my opinion, it's an underuse of the true expressive capacity of the style.

Occasionally, I can find a gem that expands beyond the high-school musical scenario, but it's been getting harder as the years go by.

Jumwa:

The Gentleman:
For the record, that book (50 Shades of Gray, and yes, I know that the title is something else, but let's be honest as to what it's referring to) is terrible. Like the original work the fanfic was based on (Twilight), it teaches extremely dangerous practices in a D/s relationship to the point that a sizable part of the BDSM community has read it to teach newcomers what not to do that they may have in mind.

I've seen this argument a lot, but I rarely see it applied to other things.

Not a lot of people kick a fuss over video games manshooters and how they give unrealistic depictions of what it's like to be in a war, or even use a gun.

Or that racing game's encourage people to drive haphazardly.

The book wasn't meant to be a how-to guide on BDSM. It's a work of fiction about some messed up people doing stupid things (with a ridiculous premise). It's meant to entertain, to titillate, not educate. And why should it? Not everything needs to be about that.

I've never read the thing myself, the eye-roll worthy anecdotes from my partners read-through were more than enough for me. It just seems this is a rather unfair standard because it has to do with sex.

To be honest, I can see both sides. See on the side of "this is an unrealistic BDSM relationship" I think that a lot of BDSMers hate the thought that people could go into a supposed BDSM relationship based upon the book, because people DO take what they read and watch WAY too seriously and often mistake it for true, without realizing that the relationship they're entering is actually abuse (which from what I've heard that's essentially what the relationship in 50 Shades of Gray is, it's abuse). Not to mention BDSMers already kind of get a bad reputation for being "sinful", "abusive","weird" and a whole host of other words that are not pleasant, so it's very possible that people read a book like 50SoG and think they're right that the BDSM community is just full of people who obviously have psychological disorders and like to either be hurtful or being hurt. So it's understandable that sometimes those in the community would want to say "No no no! We're not like that! That book is wrong!"

On the other hand though, as poorly written as it is (and from what little snippets I've read it's horrible), people should be allowed to enjoy what they like without ridicule. Fiction is fun, we use it to engage in fantasies that we know are bad for us, that we couldn't do in real life, but it gives us that little adventure in our head to make us happy.
Not every charater you come across has to be a role model for you. If you're so dense that you can't figure out the difference between what is acceptable in reality and what is acceptable in fantasy then that's your problem and hopefully you can figure it out. It's the same thing as parents blaming Eminem for their child's violent behavior. Eminem never claimed to be your child's guardian, he never assumed care of said child, and it's not his responsibility what other people do, even based upon his music because he can't account for all the crazy in the world. If he or any other artist of any sort DID, they wouldn't be able to make art ever again.

Jumwa:

They could read an actual how-to BDSM guide. Or join a group with others who practice, every city in the western world is guaranteed to have at least one if you go looking for them.

It is not as if 50 Shades of Grey (an absurdly delusional novel where the portrayal of BDSM isn't the most ludicrous thing by far) is the only readily available source for this stuff. In the digital era, there exists countless forums and online communities one could go to for actual understanding.

Never said it was the only source. But your original post was about the BDSM community's reaction to it and using it as a "What not to do" guide. From everything both you and I have heard its pretty much exactly that, and being a rather popular book its not exactly hard to understand why people are actually into the BDSM don't like the way its portrayed.

Finally, by your rationale we could never compare anything. There is no absolute equivalence, you could compare two toys off the same assembly line and there will be real anomalies between them, but that kind of thinking is absurd, same as yours.

No, Of course you can compare things, that doesn't mean you can compare all things to all other things arbitrarily, and I'm sorry but there is absolutely no connection between driving, combat, and sex other than they are things that people can do. To suggest that people react to them in the same way whenever they're presented in fictional media is utterly ridiculous. I mean you weren't even comparing the same media to the same media you were comparing "video games manshooters" and racing games to a book about BDSM. Those ballparks aren't even in the same city.

I thought about this while watching Oreimo Season 2 last night and going <3 <3 hnnng kirino and ayase. I realized how messed up it was not only was I cheering for him and his sister to get together, but that she and ayase are also middle school students :|

The Gentleman:
For the record, that book (50 Shades of Gray, and yes, I know that the title is something else, but let's be honest as to what it's referring to) is terrible. Like the original work the fanfic was based on (Twilight), it teaches extremely dangerous practices in a D/s relationship to the point that a sizable part of the BDSM community has read it to teach newcomers what not to do that they may have in mind.

Exactly, porn needs to be straight forward and honest about the way that it would actually work in real life. Everyone knows that that private detective gets all the ladies because he's British and he talked to them for all of 3 minutes. And that that town is filled with nothing but women and he's the only guy in town...

Seriously though, 50 shades is porn, so why should we hold it to any standard higher than that? Don't look at it from an educational stand point, just think "well, does it get people hot and bothered?" By the sales, I'd say so. I'll just be looking down on those that read it in public. It can wait until they get home.

One, "Cory and Grey are the straightest shotas" is the creepiest thing I've read all day
and today I've read the unspeakable, so good job on that.
Two, I can't help but feel that the newest manservice anime "Free" should have been used somewhere in this strip.

Three best laugh I've had all day too, great work.

Loonyyy:
I'm objecting to the depiction of abusive relationships as an ideal, and to the despicable portrayals of mental illness and BDSM. If the story was meant to be about an abusive relationship, and was marketed, and written as such, it wouldn't get this complaint.

Spoiler alert, in case anyone cares, the first book ends with the couple breaking up because of how badly he treats her in their twisted version of a BDSM relationship. That alone negates almost everything you've said.

Loonyyy:
...since clearly someone would only be this presumptuous, rude, arrogant and dismissive..

I was none of those things. It was a sincere question, and I went on to explain my point. The romance genre, for centuries at the very least, has been full of absurd premises that make a bit of bad PR for BDSM look completely mild by comparison.

You are lobbing all sorts of ridiculous claims at me. Previously you brought up that because the book was romance, it changes the expectations of realism. I pointed out the heaps of fantastical absurdities in the genre that are quite normal to indicate solely that the book being marketed as part of the romance genre makes absolutely no claims to its realism. That was my sole point. Not that the book is therefore unable to be judged.

How about taking some of your own advice: Please aim to discuss the things I have said, rather than those you'd wished I'd said.

As for social responsibility, now that the author is quite famous and popular, I do hope she takes that into consideration now. However, when she wrote her distasteful little story she could have had no idea how immensely popular and influential it could get. And to expect every writer of fiction, from piddling fanfic creators to part-time wannabes, to exhibit an immense amount of social awareness in everything they create would be absurdly unrealistic and quashing to creativity.

And if your argument is that content creators should be socially aware and responsible in case their work takes on some massive pop culture significance and might potentially influence someone, then why only on this one issue? After all, you stress that it doesn't apply to any other.

If you could discuss without being so arrogantly rude, it would help convey your point. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121603-Science-Proves-That-Trolls-Ruin-Everything

I mean you weren't even comparing the same media to the same media you were comparing "video games manshooters" and racing games to a book about BDSM. Those ballparks aren't even in the same city.

I purposely compared disparate genres because I didn't think listing off other authors/books was very productive in a community that revolves almost entirely around gaming and movies.

I've mentioned it before, but how about how rape is portrayed in romance? (i.e. Just a way of romancing a gal and giving her what she really wants but can't bring herself to ask for!) That disturbs me far more than simply misconstruing BDSM yet it's not been a big deal to people. And 50 Shades is guilty there too, not as much as many other popular romance novels however. Yet it's not something that gets mentioned a lot.

I could come up with tons of problems with the book as regards realism or potential issues (including the unrealistic idea of a twenty year old self-made billionaire orphan), however my entire point, as I stated from my first comment, was just that it seemed arbitrary to pick on misconstruing a healthy BDSM relationship as a big issue to pick at with 50 Shades. Especially since the book didn't seem to depict it as a healthy BDSM relationship, but rather two messed up people in a messed up relationship that has tons of problems and seems ill-fitted from beginning to end.

I wouldn't judge people for say, liking Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, or whatever. Because perhaps the things I like could be seen just as bad. For example, I really enjoy playing Black Ops 2 while a lot of people despise the franchise. Though to be fair, it's a video game and my girlfriend enjoys it too. If she started getting.. into, books like... the Grey one, um.... we'd have a talk.

I'd basically tell her what most people think of it - it's for moms that want more of 'spice' in their life. I did not quote that, people on the internet have stated this way before I even found out the book existed lol.

A Weakgeek:
I have never understood the appeal of "romance" novels/visual novels/lenghty films with porn in them. To me, its going through tedious and laughingly terrible plot with a halfboner at best. Then once the "steamy" scenes happen, even if they are well made I've just lost interest by then.

I guess im more into instant gratification when it comes to porn.

I can't speak for other mediums, but you generally read romantic visual novels with "porn" not because of the "porn" but because of the story itself is good and the sexual content is just sort of an icing on the cake at the end (not to mention it is a little unrealistic if you are dealing with a romance between young people who stay entirely celibate, so I could even argue for realism).

On the other hand there are quite a number of visual novels that are porn and focused on sexual content and fetishes, but what you are doing is equating that specific type with the entire medium. To put that in perspective, it's like as if you heard about a single porn movie and then declared that every movie ever made has terrible plot and is only about the sex. Kind of silly if you ask me.

In this case I would recommend not talking about things you don't know about. It might sound like a no-brainer but apparently a lot of people have trouble with the concept...

Erin sure is one to talk about "normal human relationships" (pfft!). She gets along better with the video game characters in her head than her coworkers and family!

Jumwa:

Loonyyy:
I'm objecting to the depiction of abusive relationships as an ideal, and to the despicable portrayals of mental illness and BDSM. If the story was meant to be about an abusive relationship, and was marketed, and written as such, it wouldn't get this complaint.

Spoiler alert, in case anyone cares, the first book ends with the couple breaking up because of how badly he treats her in their twisted version of a BDSM relationship. That alone negates almost everything you've said.

And then... Spoiler alert, she goes right back at the beginning of the next book to him after practically starving herself for several days, and they're right back to square one. Worse still in fact, because both of them become such big depressed messes in those few days that they're terrified of ever parting again, no matter how bad things get for them. Even though they've known each other for less than a month at that point.

And then, spoiler alert! The relationship is still abusive, and not primarily because of the BDSM element. Although believe me, Mr. Grey is a pretty shit dominant in that regard too.

If you want a good summary of why people are angry about this book in particular, try here: http://jennytrout.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/lets-talk-about-50-shades-in-a-calm-and-rational-way/

The basic points are that it's frequently marketed as being what women really want and being touted as romantic, but neither the publishers nor the author were willing to actually say "No, hang on, it's just a fantasy and you really shouldn't be hoping for something like this in real life." But then the author went and actually said "Nothing freaks me out more than people who say this is about domestic abuse. Bringing up my book in this context trivializes the issues, doing women who actually go through it a huge disservice. It also demonizes loads of women who enjoy this lifestyle, and ignores the many, many women who tell me they've found the books sexually empowering." Which to me sounds like she's not willing to even discuss the implications in her books, and will use the fact that people liked it as a defence.

Fappy:
That's my girlfriend right there. Yup.

She plays dating sims AND reads smut like 50 Shades of Grey XD

And you accept that without letting it get in the way of your relationship? You, sir, are a paragon among boyfriends... or is it only girlfriends who get upset about that? I don't really have much experience.

GabeZhul:

A Weakgeek:
I have never understood the appeal of "romance" novels/visual novels/lenghty films with porn in them. To me, its going through tedious and laughingly terrible plot with a halfboner at best. Then once the "steamy" scenes happen, even if they are well made I've just lost interest by then.

I guess im more into instant gratification when it comes to porn.

I can't speak for other mediums, but you generally read romantic visual novels with "porn" not because of the "porn" but because of the story itself is good and the sexual content is just sort of an icing on the cake at the end (not to mention it is a little unrealistic if you are dealing with a romance between young people who stay entirely celibate, so I could even argue for realism).

On the other hand there are quite a number of visual novels that are porn and focused on sexual content and fetishes, but what you are doing is equating that specific type with the entire medium. To put that in perspective, it's like as if you heard about a single porn movie and then declared that every movie ever made has terrible plot and is only about the sex. Kind of silly if you ask me.

In this case I would recommend not talking about things you don't know about. It might sound like a no-brainer but apparently a lot of people have trouble with the concept...

I was quite specifically talking about the ones with porn in them. I wasnt equating anything with anything else.

If one enjoys watching a bunch of still images of anime characters with text scroll under is all fine and dandy. I'll stick to actual porn for getting off and actual novels/comics for stories myself though.

sageoftruth:

Fappy:
That's my girlfriend right there. Yup.

She plays dating sims AND reads smut like 50 Shades of Grey XD

And you accept that without letting it get in the way of your relationship? You, sir, are a paragon among boyfriends... or is it only girlfriends who get upset about that? I don't really have much experience.

We are both highly critical of each other's pornographic tastes (for lack of a better description), but we accept each other and move on :P

Ha I can't believe Erin reads that crap. Now excuse me while I go back to Katawa Shoujo. I love my sweet Hanako~It's not the same shut up.

Haha, this strip nailed it.

Jumwa:

I mean you weren't even comparing the same media to the same media you were comparing "video games manshooters" and racing games to a book about BDSM. Those ballparks aren't even in the same city.

I purposely compared disparate genres because I didn't think listing off other authors/books was very productive in a community that revolves almost entirely around gaming and movies.

I fail to see how this makes the comparison anymore valid.

however my entire point, as I stated from my first comment, was just that it seemed arbitrary to pick on misconstruing a healthy BDSM relationship as a big issue to pick at with 50 Shades. Especially since the book didn't seem to depict it as a healthy BDSM relationship, but rather two messed up people in a messed up relationship that has tons of problems and seems ill-fitted from beginning to end.

But its not at all arbitrary.
Its an extremely popular book focusing on a relatively common sexual fantasy in a rather problematic way.

Solo-Wing:
Ha I can't believe Erin reads that crap. Now excuse me while I go back to Katawa Shoujo. I love my sweet Hanako~It's not the same shut up.

I think I know how you feel there. Though I'd rather go with Lily myself. Don't look at me like that...

Also, I think katawa shoujo is more of a romance novel than FSOG, but only based on what team four star has read out loud.

When men do it they're pigs. When women do it it's just a book. Double standards are fun.

Flaery:
Yes, Cory and Grey, you are the straightest shotas.

This is the first comic in quite a bit that I can really relate to.

Is your avatar from Nana to Kaoru?

I like this comic. None of what I'm about to say is directed at the comic. But what strikes me as odd in this thread is all of the men who judge 50 Shades of Grey. If you are a straight male and you like vanilla sex, 50 Shades of Grey wasn't written for you. It's like when people who don't like huge tits buy Dead or Alive and then demand that they stop with the huge tits. Dead or Alive wasn't made for you. It was made for me and people like me who share my appreciation/fetish for huge, unrealistic tits. So don't come in here and impose your standards on our game. If you don't like huge tits, don't buy a game with huge tits. I could understand if it was the only fighting game on earth, but it's not. There are plenty of other fighting games, go play those and leave ours alone.

By the same note, 50 Shades of Grey was written mostly for women/people attracted to men, and people into BDSM and steamy, kinda-corny romance. So if none of that appeals to you, don't buy it and then get mad when it doesn't meet your personal standards. I could understand if it was the only book on earth, but it is most definitely not. And even if some of the stuff that happens in the book is dangerous, so what? A lot of the stuff that happens in a sexual fantasy is dangerous. A lot of the stuff that happens in fantasies is downright implausible. That's why it's a fantasy. That's why it needs to be written down, because it can't happen in real life. You're supposed to indulge your fantasies. You're supposed to have a good relationship with pleasure, and you're supposed be honest with yourself about what you're into. Because if you repress your sexuality, if you repress your urges and deny them, all of that pent-up energy turns against you and messes with your head, until you end up doing some really messed up things.

I'm not into 50 Shades of Grey. It's not my thing. But I've got all three volumes. Because after all the shit this woman put up with, I felt like being a rebel and giving her my money. Good for her, indulging her fantasies and apparently the fantasies of other women out there. It's healthy to do that, and that's her right. I don't judge people for what they're into. You can't help what you're into. It's not a choice. As long as you're not hurting anybody else, and as long as you never try to re-create anything implausible or dangerous in reality (and they usually don't. Don't give me that "they end up needing to do it in real life" bullshit because that's not how it works), then I love and tolerate you for the individual you are. I think everybody's a little bit freakier than they'd like to admit, and most of us have some sort of fetish even if we aren't aware of it yet.

So be yourself. Fantasize. Indulge. You've got to have a good relationship with pleasure. And maybe through fantasy, you'll find something safe (enough) and fun that you can try with your partner, which may even strengthen your relationship.

Grey Carter:

Flaery:
Yes, Cory and Grey, you are the straightest shotas.

This is the first comic in quite a bit that I can really relate to.

Is your avatar from Nana to Kaoru?

Certainly so, Kaoru is one handsome bastard.

Wait a minute, doesn't "kawaii" mean something like "scary." So how could a non-threatening guy be scary?

...Fuck, I'm such a super-nerd.

Iron Lightning:
Wait a minute, doesn't "kawaii" mean something like "scary." So how could a non-threatening guy be scary?

...Fuck, I'm such a super-nerd.

You're thinking of kowai, it doesn't have the extra "e" sound at the end.

Flaery:

Iron Lightning:
Wait a minute, doesn't "kawaii" mean something like "scary." So how could a non-threatening guy be scary?

...Fuck, I'm such a super-nerd.

You're thinking of kowai, it doesn't have the extra "e" sound at the end.

awww, super-nerd status revoked.

Caramel Frappe:
I wouldn't judge people for say, liking Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, or whatever. Because perhaps the things I like could be seen just as bad. For example, I really enjoy playing Black Ops 2 while a lot of people despise the franchise. Though to be fair, it's a video game and my girlfriend enjoys it too. If she started getting.. into, books like... the Grey one, um.... we'd have a talk.

I'd basically tell her what most people think of it - it's for moms that want more of 'spice' in their life. I did not quote that, people on the internet have stated this way before I even found out the book existed lol.

My wife read it. Enjoyed it, even. It wasn't a big deal, you'll be fine. :)

Flaery:
Yes, Cory and Grey, you are the straightest shotas.

This is the first comic in quite a bit that I can really relate to.

Excuse doesn't Shota refer to prepubescent boys presented in a sexual situations?-
Both Cory and Grey are adults so why are you calling them that?

OP:Yay I love me My Anime/Manga references-Thanks for the laugh :D

Belated:
*snip*

Well, what seems to me is the, supposed danger, involved in being exposed to BDSM at first seem to rile some people, while others scoff at the idea of this being a romance. The latter one making the advertising for the book out to be misleading. I think we are allowed to judge on that merit.

Mind you, I'm parroting what someone else has said here. At the time, I'm not interested in that book. Maybe I am more interested in what I like: just straight up fantasy and maybe sci-fi. I feel like I'm dabbling here and there. So, the shadow trilogy of alexey Pehov and Mortal Engines from Philip reeves are what I have liked thus far. I'd have to take more 'risks' and see which books I like for myself.

But at the same time, how am I going to game?

I apologize for going off a tangent though.

knight steel:

Flaery:
Yes, Cory and Grey, you are the straightest shotas.

This is the first comic in quite a bit that I can really relate to.

Excuse doesn't Shota refer to prepubescent boys presented in a sexual situations?-
Both Cory and Grey are adults so why are you calling them that?

OP:Yay I love me My Anime/Manga references-Thanks for the laugh :D

Read the small black text just below the first panel.

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