Jimquisition: Go Fish

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Go Fish

In this extra episode, Jimquisition lends a rambling mouth to the controversy surrounding Phil Fish and his dramatic exit from the videogame world.

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My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

OK, Jim.

Your own personal deaf threat:

I'm gonna poke out your earwax with a q-tip!

This is why I DON'T go on twitter.

That improvised format wasn't all that bad, honestly. You managed to keep it going without reiterating your points excessively.

From what I have read from him it looks like Fish just needs to grow up. Not in the sense that he can't face the real world or insults or whatever, but that he just comes off as an abrasive know-it-all. Nobody likes that kind of attitude. Hopefully if and when he comes back to the industry he will have taken some of your advice to heart.

I now feel as if I should've sent Jim some hate mail, it seems I've been missing out on one of the many channels of community interaction.

I should make it well-written, too, as it's my first...

Yeah, this is pretty much my position on the whole thing too. Fish may not be the greatest person in the world, but I don't think I've ever seen one man get so much abuse from people on a regular basis.

And I do hope he does come back to game development, because from what I've played of it so far, I really enjoy Fez, and would love to see a Fez 2.

Personally when it comes to dealing with people who criticize my stories in less than pleasant ways, I tend to keep a very polite tone, partially because it makes me feel like the bigger man, partially because it makes the guy swearing like a sailor look immature by comparison. Though I do get snarky from time to time, for example, one time I blocked a guy because he was being a dick, but he got back in through another username. He started ranting and swearing at me, and said that what I did was immature, to which I replied "Someone who's swearing like a 13 year old, shouldn't be criticizing other people for being immature."

I can understand where Jim is coming from, sometimes you need to let some steam off. However, the way I see it, it's a lot better to let it off in small doses here and there, little snarky comments directed at the extra rude are a good way to do it, like that sexist guy who commented on your Legend of Zelda article. I guess the point is to let off your anger in small controlled amounts, don't let your anger get the better of you, and unless it's called for, don't be a dick.

this is one of the rare occassions where i can agree with jim.

mobbing, even against the most evil and/or douchiest kind of people isn't justified.

DVS BSTrD:
This is why I DON'T go on twitter.

that applies to all of the internet.

dicks will be dicks.

maybe we should create a decency or shame module for internet users....

This is one of the better shows in awhile, Jim. Don't bother apologizing. I think you really helped put this thing in perspective.

you know how i know i need to grow up, because i laughed at i hope you die of fat. even though i don't i hope Jim lives a long happy life and stays with the gamer community for a long time i really do. as to the actual contents of this video its hard for me to take a side seeing as how im only vaguely aware of what was said by either side. im just glad i don't get that kind of hate from anybody.

When you wake up in the mornings... You feel almost intimidated by responses to things you wrote the day before. This rings true on forums aswell. I think its the reason many steer clear of the Religions and Politics forums.

MCerberus:
My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

No one is perfect, we are all assholes. Fish is no more of a "ponce" than someone that calls him one for being unable to live up to their incredibly unrealistic standards of what a human being must be.

I really liked this episode. While I can see past the persona in the normal videos in order to "get the message" I find it really engaging when you speak normally without the ranting or script. You should do talks at conventions and stuff.

In regards to the content of the video, I think the problem lies with that when you are typing words at a screen rather than speaking to somebody face to face it is difficult to see them as a person with emotions. While I strive to be fairly polite online, I realise that I can come across as incredibly snarky at times, considerably more so than I ever would in reality, and I occasionally have to remind myself that it really isn't fair to the person on the receiving end.

Some people are simply incapable of the introspection required to notice it, or are surrounded by like minded individuals to the point where that kind of behaviour seems normal. So when they get it pointed out to them they get defensive, because they cannot see what they are doing wrong.

I think a lot of this is down to the internet still being in it's "infancy". People haven't really evolved a proper etiquette for speaking to people online like we do in reality. As such people are much more likely to be a lot ruder than they would be to be people face to face.

Although I have never received the kind of hate people such as yourself and Fish have, to a smaller extent I sometimes get the same kind of feeling when I log onto here and see I have been quoted. Especially if it has been in a heated debate or a controversial topic. I normally ask myself "So who is going to take issue with my opinion now?" and feel reluctant to read what they have said.

So I can only imagine what it must be like for people who get actual harassment.

Jim, if you ever do leave this show or move it somewhere else, I hope it is something you never feel you are forced into due to hostility. I hope it is a deliberate choice that you feel is the best for your career and whatever future you have planned :-)

As for Phil Fish, I've somehow managed to miss this whole thing, from what he originally said to what the responses were. Quite frankly I'm not interested, either, I know what Internet arguments are and from what I understand so far I doubt what happened is much different. Either way, I'm inclined to agree with Jim that it certainly wasn't ONE comment that brought him to make the decision, and while it does seem a very drastic move things that explode on the Internet can have very drastic effects on a person. Especially when they know your name and all that baggage is tied directly to your career and professional reputation.

And everybody is prone to saying stupid things online, I've done it more times than I could count. And I think people deserve to be called out for their bullshit when they're generating it, but death threats and insults when they aren't doing anything stupid are just unnecessary and as vile as all the other vile shit that comes out in Internet arguments. So I don't think he's beyond forgiveness, and nor is he deserving of extensive harassment. If the Amazing Atheist can make the comments he's made and still come out with a semblance of a career intact, then certainly if Phil Fish decides to toss his hat back in I think he won't have a tough time being welcomed back.

You can hate Fish all you like but the bottom line is this...

Fish makes games. Some would even call him a game maker. We are now short one game maker because someone of little value in this industry felt entitled....not for his own publication, but Game Informer of all places. This person of little value who only talks about video games threw shit at someone the industry actually NEEDS, and it just happened to be one shit too many.

Not a fan of Fez and never even heard of Phil Fish prior to this weekend, but I know the industry needs more creators and needs a whole lot less people like the Annoyed Gamer.

The real issue is the entitlement of some of these....I don't even know what to call them...what? Videogame talker critic people? I mean, they're most certainly not journalists. Journalists have standards report the news, not rumors. Journalists usually have expectations that they must met or they will be held accountable.

So when a guy like Beer gets pissy at Fish and Blow for not gossiping or commenting on a (at the time) rumor, it only highlights why gaming media cannot be taken seriously and why the industry would be better off without 95% of them. Gaming media has been shit for YEARS. This isn't new and neither is this sort of behavior. Fish has at least made a contribution to this industry. What has gaming media done for the industry? These are the same people that will line up to call gamers whiny and entitled for not enjoying the shit Mass Effect ending, and will call out developers as whiny and entitled for not commenting on rumors. Yeah....95% sounds about right.

I'd include Sterling in that number but he seems to be the only one with the balls to call out EA and other pigs in this industry.

Lastly, yeah Jim...you can't pick a side because of David Cage. You basically did the same thing only you took it quite a few steps beyond.

The thing with Fish is that it seemed like he kicked the hornet's nest and complained about being stung. Then he proceeded to kick the hornet's nest again.

Fish very much acted like a self-centered, arrogant prick. That doesn't mean that he was a self-centered, arrogant prick, and I do think a lot of people crossed the line when talking to and about him (including Marcus Beer), when you act an asshole, people will respond in kind.

Fish doesn't necessarily need thicker skin, or at least wouldn't, if he's stop running his mouth off and actively trying to piss everyone off. If he wasn't notorious for comments like Japanese game devs suck, or my personal favorite "suck my dick, choke on it," this wouldn't have ever been a problem. Fish brought the abuse on himself, he has nobody to blame. And honestly, what Marcus said wasn't even that harsh, especially given some of the shit that comes out of his mouth. All he said was what most of us are thinking: If you didn't have a comment on the situation (Xbox One self publishing change), then just say "No comment right now," and leave it at that. Don't get indignant over it.

Also should point out, nobody forced Fish to respond to the abuse he got, but he did, constantly. I've never liked Fish personally, because he's only ever made Fez, and believes it was a revolution for indie games, when it's anything but.

Jim really starts to remind me off Doug Walker, as in I enjoy both their personas and their real... well real versions of themselves. And it was genuinely pleasant to hear Jim just talking about stuff. Thank God for Jim.

Yep, that's the internet for you. I hope Fish is happier not paying attention to this stuff than the was doing so.

Nice video, Jim. I do think the internet can use some more happy pills.

I do hope you have the self awareness to realize that you are sometimes part of the shill choir you are commenting on. While I don't think you've made any death threats, I'm sure there are at least a few that feel you've been unfair to them.

I don't care in the slightest about Fish or Blowhard or any of that crowd. I just want to say, Jim, that I believe this is the first all-talking-face Jimquisition since the very first one, and you've grown up a lot since then. Good on you.

Off-topic: NFL fantasy football can kiss my ass.

Hey Jim! Yeah you!

Have I told you that I appreciate you and I think you're a unique individual that brightens my day when I see your show, even if I don't always agree with you?

Well, there you go. Much love. Call me.

What exactly did this Fish guy cop it for anyway?

I remember hearing some vague mentions of him being a bit of a knob, but nothing specific.

Jimothy Sterling:
Go Fish
In this extra episode, Jimquisition lends a rambling mouth to the controversy surrounding Phil Fish and his dramatic exit from the videogame world.

Watch Video

You know where I expect to hear death threats from? Over-zealous religious, political and military people. Not a fucking gaming community, or any gaming community for that matter.

You know how much I tolerate death threats? None. Whatsoever. Anyone low enough to wish, think and/or vocalize their opinion of death upon another human being, something that time will inevitably do to all of us anyways, is, to me, just another pile of redundant pile of protoplasm incapable of putting first rational thought and emotion before their words. These people are not beyond forgiveness, but the amount of change needed to sway my opinion of them requires more than what the average person is capable of.

No matter your opinion of Fish, or of anyone else for that matter, he does not EVER deserve to have such hatred and bile thrown against him. Criticize his words or actions to your heart's content - such things help all of us to see and/or think things a little differently than what we alone would've seen - but the absolute moment that criticism turns into threats of violence with no resounding collective voice to attempt to correct that movement, is the moment we ALL are guilty of ignorance.

I may not agree with what the man says or does, but nothing he does or will ever do in the gaming industry will warrant what attacks were levied upon him. Not a goddamn thing.

I like being one of the million who shower praise more than one of the million that shower hatred and flaming arrows... and sometimes napalm.

I can relate very well to what you're saying. It's happened to me both IRL and on forums. When I started going on forums more, I was someone who never backed down and could argue for too long, because that's how I had been brought up and handled my problems IRL. But on the internet a lot of people are both incredibly dumb, and doesn't have anything to do with their time, so they could just keep at it too.

These days I've turned off quotes on the forums I visit, and if I ever do reply it's because I randomly saw it. It's almost never anyone that wants to have an intelligent conversation though, but are instead looking to start an argument, so I try to write a reply to piss them off/provoke them, and then I simply walk away. I don't even check what they replied to me. I win.

I think the easiest and best solution is to just ignore them. If he hadn't spent a lot of time on twitter/whatever, he probably wouldn't have known what they said, and it wouldn't have happened.

I agree that they're allowed to snap too.

Dustin Triplett:

MCerberus:
My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

No one is perfect, we are all assholes. Fish is no more of a "ponce" than someone that calls him one for being unable to live up to their incredibly unrealistic standards of what a human being must be.

Sure, no one is perfect, but most people aren't assholes. If that's how you see the world, then I'm genuinely sorry for you and the awful people you have to interact with. Most people are generally quite good. They can have bad days, bad moods, various triggers/berserk buttons, but if I stop a random stranger on the street and ask for directions, I'll probably have a positive interaction at least 99% of the time.

I've never seen anything sympathetic about Phil Fish. He may be (and, from the praise Fez has gotten, probably is) a fantastic game designer, but, as a person (as far as I can tell from his role in Indie Game and bits here and there on the web), he's a cunt. That said, I don't quite get why anyone gives a damn about him, at least not to the point of harassing him online. If you don't like someone and you don't have to deal with someone, then... don't.

Related: I had originally hated Jim's stuff on the Escapist--I don't know if it was him, me, the topics he talked about, or some combination of the above--so I simply didn't watch it. I later gave him another shot and found that he's pretty goddamn awesome. (Edit: Thanks for hanging in there and making a great bunch of shows, Jim.)

Let's not confuse legitimate criticism of opinions and ideas with blind personal attacks.

Keep calm and Thank God For Jim. ;)

I don't think my opinion of the Fish/Beer escapade has changed much- it wasn't terribly different from what Sterling said at the beginning to begin with.

(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.823359.19934086, if you really care.)

But this Jimquisition did somewhat illuminate, to my mind, Jim Sterling- and perhaps the reasons for the persona he's adopted for doing shows like this one.

Hey, Jim.

First, don't ever feel a need to apologize for doing a show like this one; it was really interesting- dare I say, touching?- to hear you speaking off-the-cuff and from the heart.

Secondly, I've had days when just coming back to confront replies to comments I've made was stressful- and I'm not playing to a tiny fraction of the audience that someone like you (or, to be fair, Fish) is. Certainly there are benefits to getting a tall soapbox to express your opinion from, even if you don't get paid for the privilege, but easy it's not. It doesn't just take a "thick skin" which might imply a dumb numbness to what anyone else might say or think; it requires courage. And that's before it gets to the point of death threats.

Thirdly, though I can certainly get snarky, I hope anything I've said regarding the Jimquisition has been constructive, not merely abusive. It's never been intended otherwise. I really appreciate the show and the amount of thought and work that go into it.

So, thanks.

(Insert fat joke here to pretend I don't actually care.)

Carry on.

Every time I see this person on twitter, or in the news..he's acting like a foul mouthed diva. I saw him make those comments in GDC, which totally validates the notion he's a smug, holier than thou little prick. No, I won't sympathize with someone who doesn't have a mental filter..whose outwardly rude, most likely not on purpose..but still. I won't excuse that because he made a game. If I acted like that in public, or at work, I'd be fired, or punched in the mouth. Rightfully so..I was being a fuckin tool.

You got a behavioral problem? Yeah, a lot of us do. Do the responsible thing FOR YOURSELF, and sort it out.

All I read about is why this guy catches so much venom and hatred..

Most of it is because of things he has said. I mean, he made a good fucking game. Nobody hates him because he made a good game. They hate him because he acts like an asshole.

I mean, have we all forgotten why he's received so much negativity? He doesn't handle getting knee deep into shitholes he dug himself into well, at all. He just digs himself deeper.

Now he's going to blame the industry.

The only who has MY sympathy at the moment for shit like this Vonderharr. He didn't do anything wrong, say anything, act the fool. He made a change, that a lot of people didn't like, and lashed out with death threats. Kind of like what Phil did with Marcus Beer, told him to kill himself.

And I've watched hundreds of hours of futurama, I didn't get that reference.

You know what I find the saddest part of this whole thing, in terms of how it reflects on our community? That Jim's closing message was to think about the feelings of the people you're harassing.

Not "don't harass people, you cockbiscuit"

Just "try to remember that the person you're sending death threats to has probably had a pretty rough day"

It's depressing that we're so used to the idea that we can give people shit whenever we want for whatever reason we want, even guys like Jim who tell us how pointless it is accept it as a given that it's going to happen. That's a pretty bad state for the gaming community to be in, guys.

On a slightly more positive note, thank God for Jim. You were the answer to a trivia question on Twitter and won me a copy of Company of Heroes, which I'm enjoying very much. Ta!

Negative things are more easily remembered than positive ones. And the ones that want to insult and threaten someone, because it makes their day better somehow, are always more vocal than the people who like you. Which leads to people feeling overwhelmed. Anyway, I hope you never leave Jim. Fuck the wankers.

I personally don't believe this guy for a second, I'm talking about Fishy here, not Jim. I think this is all just a big old marketing thing. Stir up controversy, stay relevant, take fake break, release game to jubilation of victorious return, profit.

This man is too abrasive a person and too replaceable to really garner this much attention otherwise. I was pretty much unaware of 100% of the stuff he had said, the stuff said about him and this general debacle until a friend sent me a picture about the Minecraft thing a while back also involving Fishy.

In reality not much will be lost when he leaves, there have to be at least 100 different Fishies in the ocean dying to grow a pair of legs and walk into the indie gaming jungle. Maybe the next Fishy will know to just ignore his twitter and to not just grow thick skin but instead practice the art of ignoring stuff. Like me, who is now going to ignore the rest of this stuff and wait for his prediction about this being all a media stunt to come true.

Life is to short to worry about other people shooting themselves in the foot about hateful things other people said to them.

Jim, thanks so much for taking time to make this extra episode. I agree with you completely, no one withstands insults forever and sometime they will snap and it's not going to be pretty. I loved Fez and would love to see Fez 2.

I hope you still do the Jimquisition for a long time to come and know that trolls aside, you have a great community that supports you and cares for your opinion and well being. Thank God for you.

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