Jimquisition: Go Fish

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT
 

I agree with many, that this show has been one of the better ones; what's with the pictures of children in costumes anyway?
Although I don't entirely agree with Jim, I think this episode helps to see the other side of the story.

Yeah, I gotta agree with Jim on this in general. If enough people treat a person like a monster long enough, guess what? They become a monster. Even if it's just briefly. If it persists, then the status of "monster" might last longer, and longer.
The bad people out there? They'll likely just get worse.

Kinda reminded of a line from Frankenstein:
"Everywhere I see bliss, from which I am irrevocably excluded. I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous."
Bear in mind I'm not talking about anyone in specefic here, but I'm just reminded of it.

Yeah, a person might bring some ire on to them, but well, you gotta take what you dish out even if the person deserves it in your opnion. If they snap at you, and you provoked them, then it's your fault. You are part of the problem.

If a person can't or isn't allowed to vent, and/or fight back enough, guess what? It builds and builds, and they do something rash.

I'm not saying coddle everyone, but basically what Jim's message is in this video.

Also, Thank God for Jim. I appreciate what Jim says, and the effort he puts into it.

The thing with Phil Fish is that he doesn't just fight back, sometimes he starts fights like that whole Japanese games suck thing.

And yeah, a person can only take so much abuse before snapping, but it's not hard to imagine that the process was sped up incredibly by the abrasive things he's said so that much at least is his own fault.

Thank god for you Jim! Both your persona, and your personal self!

Refreshing to see you unscripted, and rather interesting to see you talk about something that obviously also is a personal thing.

A /tip of the hat to you and a pat on the back for your good work. No need to be so modest ;)

Fish is kinda an asshole, but because of that it's ok to be an even bigger asshole to him?

Why is the hypocrisy of that lost on so many people?

I was not looking forward to hearing a faux-smug opinion from Jim, and so I'm glad that you did this unscripted and sympathetic. You did good, Jim.

Jim, I love your unscripted episodes. There is a rawness about them that really works, especially when talking about things that have affected you personally.

Deathfish15:

Jimothy Sterling:
Go Fish

In this extra episode, Jimquisition lends a rambling mouth to the controversy surrounding Phil Fish and his dramatic exit from the videogame world.

Watch Video

@Jimothy Sterling (Jim)

Got to ask, since you're on the side of Fish,:
Do you feel that the GameTrailer guy's comments (about Fish being a "blowfish") were beyond unprofessional? Do you think that him personally attacking a video game developer, the people that make his job even possible, is something that should be taken serious?
I think what I'm getting at is: Should that guy get fired?

I can understand someone saying a game is poorly made. I even understand when pointing out that developers like the guy behind The War Z are nothing but crooks [when obviously warranted]. But that's the line. To personally attack a developer for no other reason than to be a pompous asshole is to basically no longer be a reporter about video games or the industry; instead he's turned troll. And I personally think the best way to kill a troll is by fire...

I specifically said in the video I *wasn't* taking sides. This was purely about the assertion that Phil is weak or thin-skinned for leaving the industry. It wasn't about him vs. Marcus. I like the pair of them.

I think Marcus misstepped when he turned a criticism of Blow/Fish's attitudes into personal insults. I think Phil misstepped when he reacted to it the way he did. I think the pair of them wasted what could have been a lovely Saturday making each other and themselves feel bad, and I hope they both continue to do the things they love, with less of the things they hate.

Jim didn't you just do a show about how we need less sequels? naughty, naughty in looking forward to Fez 2

As too your liking those who make games speaking out. I can't help but feel that is a terrible idea, (looks at those in charge of Epic, Activision and EA) as what ever they say there will always be more than enough people who bitch and whine and we all no that those who bitch and whine are the loudest.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

I think I've seen that video twice now and it's still utterly deplorable. Everybody on that panel should be ashamed. It's fine if you think Japanese games suck. Even if it's not a very well educated opinion it is just an opinion, but saying that to a Japanese dev working in the games industry, and then having your peers chuckle and laugh it up? What a fucking terrible way to encourage other developers in by mocking their country and their games, right to their face in a crowd full of people. Just because you've been given some magical spot on a panel doesn't make you any smarter or wiser than the people not on it. Jonathan Blow doesn't exactly come off any better. For someone who is supposed to be some auteur designer, his complete narrow mindedness in regards to AN ENTIRE NATION'S game industry is pathetic.

I'm sick of this attitude that indie devs are this beacon of hope and they should never be challenged, and that they are the true wizards and magicians producing the truly artistic games. I love some indie games, I hate some indie games. But the fact that 'indie' has become a brand that developers indulge in, a brand that somehow gives them a right to mock and laugh at other parts of the industry, is perturbing as hell. When a person who tells people to 'kill themselves' is turned into a martyr, you know things are messed up.

I feel like this quote is relevant.

image

Well, if he decided to leave, maybe that's the best path he have to choose, being an asshole or not. He can decide to go back if he have the desire to make the things he love. Also, he probably should leave Twitter or any other social sites for a while and start repairing the things he have broke before. I probably feels off when Phil Fish start to bash the Japanese developer (even though I kinda agree with him for obvious reasons), but those kinds of words shouldn't have been spoken in the first place, especially if you don't want to provoke people on hating you because that is the result of arrogance.

If he can keep himself together, maybe he received a comeback after making a full measured decision. A better individual, if you will.

Dear Jim,

Please don't die of fat or cancer.

Anytime Jim does an extra episode, it's like Christmas. Thank God for Jim!

I can't say that I am too familiar with the man or the events that Jim just described. However, I hate every time I hear that people are issuing death threats to anyone. Be it crappy musicians, politicians, or people of controversy, there is no need for that sort of garbage. And the fact that Jim just implied that he gets that EVERYDAY makes me realize how little I want to be some "in the public eye" individual with a Twitter account.

I mean, doesn't Jim have it bad enough with the paparazzi following him everywhere?

I agree with you on most of this Jim. The fact Fish tried to fight back against people on the internet was not a great move on his part. But the problem I have with the whole issue isn't so much that he's quitting or that he fought back. But it's just how far he takes things when he decides to make a comment. He's someone who I think needs some quality PR around to keep him from putting his foot in his mouth as much as he does. I'm not against people in his position having controversial opinions I disagree with, I think there are many who don't mind Cliffy B existing despite his opinions not always been in line with theirs. But telling someone who you arguing with online to "go kill yourself" is a step over the line for me. Sure, he hit his breaking point, and I don't condone him for lashing out when he reached said point. And given that he may have gotten some harsh comments from various people, perhaps even to that degree, in the end, he stooped to their level and, in a sense, became one of those horrible commentors himself. And, as you said, it was a fight he wasn't going to win. And in that sense, not only was he guaranteed the worse outcome, but he looks worse for having done so.

All that said, a break from all of it is probably what he needed most. With some time away and some ability to clear his head, he'll hopefully return with a drive to make more games regardless of who tries to knock him down. Until then, if we need game devs with personality, we still have Cliffy B... and Suda... and Kojima... And Newell. And I'm sure there's more.

bringer of illumination:
snip

What a load of shit. Being trained in how to deal with the media is by no means a requirement for making games. There is no reason for a indie dev to be held to a higher standard when his occupation is making games. Fish is only human, why should he be required to take the high road when so many other people don't take it? Is it okay for thousands of random people to constantly throws shit and bully someone simply because they're not public people?

Yes when the storm is to big to overcome one should back down, but when the storm follows you around everywhere you go whats the point? one can only take so many rainy days before one starts yelling at the clouds. I'm pretty sure you've done that at some point, it's not going to help, the sky is not listening, but at least it takes out some frustration.

I don't think Fish stuck with twitter just to spite the haters, he used it just like everyone else, because he wanted. The hate came with the package, and he managed to live with that for quite a while. And you don't want to ignore and look away from everything people say to you, we humans want to know what others think of us, what they say to us and about us. Even if we know it's all negative stuff we still read most of it, because that's how we work.

And he was aggressive, yeah I get that and I too think he should have calmed down. But so what? there's a lot of mindless hate and shit on the internet. If the masses is replying with the same coin maybe they too need some thicker skin?

I'm not gonna address your whole Will Smith thing because Will Smith is an actor in a completely different business who is experienced with the media and he has had training in how to respond to the media.

And I don't think death threats makes people scared that boogeymen from the internet will come and kill them. it's the knowledge that people out there want you, your friends and your family, dead that gets you. It's not a nice feeling when people you don't know want you dead for trivial reasons.

I'm gonna close of with a disclaimer here:
Of course I think Fish could and should have handled this better. He should have taken the high road and not replied to any hate, not because he is a public person but because acting like a prick isn't cool. I think it's wrong for him to call foul when he too is playing rough. However I don't blame him, receiving hate mail is a bigger deal than what people who hasn't gotten any might think. I have been in a position where I got a lot of shit thrown my way, to a muuuuuch smaller degree than Fish, but it is still a very unpleasant situation to be in.

SonicWaffle:

Just "try to remember that the person you're sending death threats to has probably had a pretty rough day"

It is horrible that such a statement is true, it actually makes me a little sick in the stomach that such a thing has to be said.

So it's a case of death of a thousand twats then? WARNING: TVtropes link.

I'm not a fan of you Jim. But I did like this show and the honesty / lack of spin of this episode. A lot.

You're ace Jim Sterling; stay strong brother.

That was a very honest video and I think that a puts a lot of online tirades into perspective.

Question about Phil Fish (I seem to have totally missed all this): What was this endless load of abuse everyone said he was getting? Honest question. Why was he getting the abuse? Fez was really good, it couldn't be for that? Was it for his fairly justified rant on MS regarding update charges?

Oh well. I hope he comes back, at least to put out Fez 2.

No, I don't think anyone should threaten Fish, especially not with death or bodily harm.

At the same time, he told a member of the media to kill himself, and this isn't his first public outburst.

So quite frankly, I couldn't care less about his poor widdle hurt feewings. The guy's a douche, and when you constantly behave like he did, you are subjected to far more criticism than normal....and a lot of it is your own damn fault. The guy kicked a dog and then complained that it bit him in response, so he proceeded to kick it some more. Screw 'im. The industry's better off without children like him as the face of gaming. This industry will never gain any respect if that's what people see when they think of gaming.

Jonny49:
I feel like this quote is relevant.

image

It's worth pointing out that Kevin Smith threw the mother of all hissy fits when critics tore Cop Out apart, yet was happy to ride the critical buzz of Clerks, Chasing Amy and all his other View Askewniverse films for all it was worth.

Artists are not wilting daisies. They don't need to be kept locked away where the nasty people of the world can't hurt them. They don't need special treatment. They're normal people, and at the end of the day, if they fuck up then they deserve a metaphorical arse-kicking just like anyone else.

If you do nothing but encourage an artist, you simply end up enabling them to produce whatever meaningless piffle they feel entitled to. The Star Wars prequels came about because people did nothing but encourage George Lucas.

Discourage an artist, criticise him, and you give him a challenge to overcome. Critics ripped the shit out of Cop Out. And you know what Smith did? He then went and made Red Tape, his best film in years.

Zombie_Moogle:
I'm inclined to disagree. Lone Survivor dev Jasper Byrne went on record about receiving a 6-page email where someone threatened to kill his daughter... because he ported the game to the Vita

See, it's things like that make say, "That's enough Internet for me today."

I just want to know where all of this immaturity comes from. It's in the gamer community, it's in the publishers, and it's in some these devs...

I don't condone the bile spewed towards Fish, but he didn't help himself out, either.

I'm glad someone with a fairly wide audience took the time to say this. It did need to be said.

With those new glasses, Jim sorta looks like Bill Gates. Am I right, or weird?

Jennacide:
Fish doesn't necessarily need thicker skin, or at least wouldn't, if he's stop running his mouth off and actively trying to piss everyone off. If he wasn't notorious for comments like Japanese game devs suck, or my personal favorite "suck my dick, choke on it," this wouldn't have ever been a problem. Fish brought the abuse on himself, he has nobody to blame. And honestly, what Marcus said wasn't even that harsh, especially given some of the shit that comes out of his mouth. All he said was what most of us are thinking: If you didn't have a comment on the situation (Xbox One self publishing change), then just say "No comment right now," and leave it at that. Don't get indignant over it.

Also should point out, nobody forced Fish to respond to the abuse he got, but he did, constantly. I've never liked Fish personally, because he's only ever made Fez, and believes it was a revolution for indie games, when it's anything but.

I hadn't heard of Fish before except once, a while ago, apparently he was getting a lot of flak for something, I can't remember what but it may have been the japanese games thing, on that note, did he ever say precisely WHY he didn't like japanese games in a slightly more articulate manor than "they just suck"? I mean I take no issue with the man for having an opinion that doesn't coincide with mine, I've heard the same remark from plenty of people, but from a developer, who understands the ins-and-outs of games, I'd expect a slightly more in-depth analysis when he voices an opinion like that, at the very least to explain what about them he doesn't like, that would at least partially disavow the whole "racism" accusation, so did he ever elaborate?

OT: nice job Jim, from watching I get the feeling you've made these points many times

I don't really understand why someone who insulted or provoked in any other way somebody else gets surprised when they get to ear a response. Isn't their own skin "thick" enough? Can't they take the "criticism" back? Aren't they the ones being childish and in need to grown in the first place?

And yes, good criticism is supposed to be an incentive to perform better and should be respected. But sometimes it gets frustrating and mixed up with all the rest. I mean, a lump of gold combed through a mount of manure is still going to be covered in some when it comes out.

Just learn to "deal with" the fact that sometimes all that anger is not really meant towards you and ignore it as best as you can - both sides.

I liked this video, the unprepared nature made it more sincere. While I don't know the full ins and outs of the situation in question, I do agree that "need a thick skin" argument is lacking an understanding of human reality and that there's no valid point to flaming people for flaming's sake.

I just can't sympathise with Fish because he was all too happy to deal out insults. He called gamers the worst kind of people. He called people "f***ing ingrates" because they didn't like the price of his game and told them to "shut the f*** up". He deserved everything he deserved everything that happened to him, in my opinion. He deserves no respect.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

To be fair, at least they did go on to explain afterwards reasons why they didn't like Japanese games, and even Blow admitted it was mostly an opinion. Though Fish still played the dick in that role when he started it off.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

The community didn't start the problem by launching unprovoked attacks on Fish. He started the problem by acting like a conceited, bigoted, self-fellating ass.

Now that's actually wrong, people jumped down his throat just because he took awhile to make the game. Then he lashed out at the assholes that wouldn't get off his ass for taking so long to make the game. Then the rest of the internet joined in after that because they got pissed off that Fish was getting pissed and held him to a higher standard. My guess is he didn't start out as the ponce, but everyone else made him into the twitter ponce.

Now that's not to say he can't be a dick of his own fruition, the previous video was proof of that alone. However, that wasn't the start of the internet hating him, which started the moment he popped up on the internet. That's when he started showing that he, too, when having his buttons pushed, could play the part of the anus.

Jonny49:
I feel like this quote is relevant.

*snip*

That logic is also a gigantic enabler of artists like TomPreston who can say any outright wrong (Samus and Link aren't blond), ironic (Japanese animation is dumb, that's why I reference my characters with it!), or just odd (hey guys, I didn't know tracing a photograph for profit could be highly illegal).

Jennacide:
Fish doesn't necessarily need thicker skin, or at least wouldn't, if he's stop running his mouth off and actively trying to piss everyone off. If he wasn't notorious for comments like Japanese game devs suck, or my personal favorite "suck my dick, choke on it," this wouldn't have ever been a problem. Fish brought the abuse on himself, he has nobody to blame. And honestly, what Marcus said wasn't even that harsh, especially given some of the shit that comes out of his mouth. All he said was what most of us are thinking: If you didn't have a comment on the situation (Xbox One self publishing change), then just say "No comment right now," and leave it at that. Don't get indignant over it.

Also should point out, nobody forced Fish to respond to the abuse he got, but he did, constantly. I've never liked Fish personally, because he's only ever made Fez, and believes it was a revolution for indie games, when it's anything but.

Thanks, now I don't have to make a huge post.

Suffice it to say, everything Jennacide posted here. Said it better than I ever could.

The only time I ever heard anything from Fish was when he'd say something that would sic the journalists on him. As such, I currently don't have the highest of opinions of the guy. Have never threatened the guy, obviously, because I'm not a complete psychopath, but everything I hear about him makes him come across as a bit of a dick. I was unaware that he was apparently being picked on all day everyday, so... I dunno.

Really felt like this episode was coming from a very sincere, and personal place. Well done Jim.
:( Please don't leave us. We love ya, Jim. :3

As for the Fish thing? I don't really know what happened, and I don't think I really want to. I guess that I will be hoping that Fez 2 doesn't die over all this, though. Seeing as a lot of people liked the first game.

Thank God for you. Jim.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here