Jimquisition: Go Fish

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Easily the best episode of the Jimquisition I've seen to date. I think you need to seriously think about doing episodes like this in the future. "Real talk" Jim is a very cool Jim.

What leaves me with no sympathy for Fish over this is that he wasn't just 'snapping' at people who insulted him. When people call him 'outspoken,' what they really mean is that he was constantly starting the kind of shit he left complaining about. He would go out of his way to insult or piss off people who didn't do anything to him, sometimes who hadn't even interacted with him before. He was repeatedly guilty of the same sort of 'abuse' people were throwing at him, and Jim is just glossing over that. Hell, plenty of the people Fish 'snapped' at were 'snapping' at him over that delightful way he phrased his 'interesting opinions.' If Fish wanted to fling shit at people, he should have been tough enough to take it himself.

I put 'abuse' in quotes because of personal experience. I've experienced the kind of online 'harassment' that gets you a bunch of angry Youtube comments and a thread of people wishing you dead on 4chan, and I've also experienced the kind of harassment and abuse that leaves you black and blue every other day and locks you in dark, windowless rooms to teach you that you're inherently worthless and better off dead. The former was a minor annoyance that any decent humanities education (especially in the arts) teaches you to completely brush off, the latter was horrific and scarring.

MCerberus:
My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

Indeed. In fact, most of the time I sympathise with the people who get hatemail and threats because they probably don't deserve it.

Fish is, instead, a dickhead who is routinely on the offense. He didn't just snap, he had an outburst in a chain of outbursts. He didn't just have a bad day, he's had a string of bad days near constantly since he arrived on the scene, proclaiming his hipster ass superior to everyone else's. He didn't have his HP worn down, he's a One Hitpoint Wonder who's constantly on the verge of that KO.

Fish probably does need thicker skin, though. Not because he's a celebrity on teh interwebz, but because he IS that guy who's always on the attack, always making an ass of himself.

The guu doesn't deserve death threats, though, even if his shitty Futurama reference reads as telling someone to kill himself. Ridicule and insults? Well, I'm not sure anyone DESERVES them per se, but Fish makes it really hard to defend him if you're aware of his history.

bravetoaster:

Sure, no one is perfect, but most people aren't assholes.

Or, alternatively, we're all better at covering it up.

Xariat:
Being trained in how to deal with the media is by no means a requirement for making games. There is no reason for a indie dev to be held to a higher standard when his occupation is making games.

Of course not, I never meant to imply that ALL game developers should be trained in handling their own PR.

But you will notice that the vast, VAST majority of game devs aren't actually public people, there are TONS of devs who are more experienced, have created more things, and are more deserving of respect for their work than Fish who aren't public at all. But the difference between them and Fish is that Fish MAKES himself public, none of this hate would ever have come his way if he hadn't decided that he wanted to put himself in the spot-light. He decided that he wanted to shout in order to be heard, he decided that he wanted his opinions to be respected, he decided to make himself public. And once you make that choice, you sure as fuck better be prepare for what that will entail, and Fish quite clearly didn't give it ANY thought, he apparently thought that making deliberately antagonistic loud-mouthed statements whenever he could wouldn't draw the ire of anyone at all.

This is even accounting for the fact that anyone with a drop of sense could tell him that every time he lashes out he not only does nothing to help himself, he is FUELING the fire, because people are amused by people like him and will line up to poke him with sticks to see if they can get a reaction out of him. This is to be expected and prepared for, there are THOUSANDS of people out there who hear whatever crap Fish decided to post on Twitter, at least a decent number are bound to be twats, if Fish doesn't EXPECT to be attacked when he puts himself out there in the way he does on the internet, then he is more naive about the workings of the webs than my 55 yer old mum.

Really, maybe I don't give Fish enough credit, this could all be one giant clever marking stunt. After all, what better way to grab a shitton of attention than pulling something like this?

Xariat:
Yes when the storm is to big to overcome one should back down, but when the storm follows you around everywhere you go whats the point? one can only take so many rainy days before one starts yelling at the clouds. I'm pretty sure you've done that at some point, it's not going to help, the sky is not listening, but at least it takes out some frustration.

Sure I have, but yelling at a cloud won't generally cause it to rain HARDER.

Lashing out on the internet on the other hand...

Xariat:
I don't think Fish stuck with twitter just to spite the haters

He has stated so, on twitter, when asked about why he didn't just disengage.

He literally said that he doesn't wanna leave twitter because it would have that the haters would win.

Xariat:
he used it just like everyone else, because he wanted. The hate came with the package, and he managed to live with that for quite a while.

There was no hate until he himself lit the fire. People don't just attack random game devs for no reason what so ever. As mindless and hatefilled as the faceless collective internet can seem at times, even IT needs provocation.

He drew a target on his own face.

That doesn't necessarily excuse the people who fired at him. But it DOES mean that I am ENTIRELY unwilling to lend him any sympathy for the situation he ultimately ended up in.

Xariat:
And you don't want to ignore and look away from everything people say to you, we humans want to know what others think of us, what they say to us and about us. Even if we know it's all negative stuff we still read most of it, because that's how we work.

I suppose some people might.

I can't relate

I have long since learned to simply fuck off when I am getting shat on, sure it might not happen a lot, but if I said something stupid, and I know the rest of the thread is going to be nothing but people shitting on me, I have no qualms about simply walking away.

Sure it doesn't feel good, it's can feel pretty wretched.

But it beats sticking around and simply absorbing the endless bile, it beats it by a fucking country mile.

Does that attitude make me a coward in the eyes of the average person?

I dunno, that's for you to judge I suppose.

Xariat:
And he was aggressive, yeah I get that and I too think he should have calmed down. But so what? there's a lot of mindless hate and shit on the internet. If the masses is replying with the same coin maybe they too need some thicker skin?

First off, I would bet that most people who have sent Fish shit via Twitter haven't done so more than once, outside of a small core of devoted shit-flingers, which is a group that will arise around almost anyone that puts themselves in the public eye.

Secondly, I am almost certain that a lot, perhaps even the majority, of the people slinging any shit in the first place, don't even bear any particular ill will towards Fish, at least not anymore than they do towards a thousand other people and things. No, they do it because it's funny. Are you familiar with the term "lolcow"? Fish is being milked for drama he is being milked for reactions and indignation. His reactions towards criticism are so overblown and amusing that people can't help but line up to, as before stated, poke him with sticks. After all, there's nothing he can actually do to retaliate, so it is an endless well of entertainment for no price. And Fish is willingly indulging them by continuing his childish ravings.

Xariat:
I'm not gonna address your whole Will Smith thing because Will Smith is an actor in a completely different business who is experienced with the media and he has had training in how to respond to the media.

Eh, I suppose the comparison was hyperbolic at best.

In principle the comparison still stands, Will Smith wants to be respected and profitable, and so he doesn't shout out any thought that enters his mind.

Fish clearly also wants to be respected, if he didn't then he wouldn't pine for attention, nor would he have starred in a fucking documentary that pretty much amounts to "LOOK AT ME FOR FUCK'S SAKE": The movie.

Xariat:
And I don't think death threats makes people scared that boogeymen from the internet will come and kill them. it's the knowledge that people out there want you, your friends and your family, dead that gets you. It's not a nice feeling when people you don't know want you dead for trivial reasons.

I'm really having a hard time believing that anyone but a tiny, tiny minority of the people that make online "death threats" actually wants anyone dead. They grasp out for the most immediately shocking, upsetting thing they can think of because they're pissed, and what do they find? Murder, or perhaps rape. There isn't an actual desire to see anyone dead, there aren't THAT many complete psychopaths on the internet.

They're simply using the crudest insults they can think off.

Elevating them above any other kind of non-committal, impotent, internet shit-talking is not only silly, the only concrete effect it actually has is to give the people doing it even MORE power.

Xariat:
I'm gonna close of with a disclaimer here:
Of course I think Fish could and should have handled this better. He should have taken the high road and not replied to any hate, not because he is a public person but because acting like a prick isn't cool. I think it's wrong for him to call foul when he too is playing rough. However I don't blame him, receiving hate mail is a bigger deal than what people who hasn't gotten any might think. I have been in a position where I got a lot of shit thrown my way, to a muuuuuch smaller degree than Fish, but it is still a very unpleasant situation to be in.

One of my best friends gets regular hate mail, he's a semi-big ideologically driven youtuber, if he doesn't get at least one message containing a "death threat" every day, then it's a really slow week.

He has only once publicly acknowledged their mere existence, and that was in a video where he picked out the funniest ones and ridiculed them, and personally he has never conveyed to me that it troubles him on any level.

I simply cannot respect a person that acts like Fish does, not only is he unable to take the shit with a light heart, he had ended up going so far as to effectively say "I'm taking MY ball and I'M GOING HOME!" In a feeble attempt to redirect the annoyance of the people that wanted Fez 2 against the people he perceives as having wronged him.

Anyway, we might just fundamentally disagree about this issue, and there is nothing truly wrong with that.

But allow me to, as an epilogue to my, by this point, disastrously and inexcusably long post, to vent a little. Sorry that you had to read all this, and sorry for any spelling and grammar mistakes, but editing this beast is frankly WAY too much of a fucking hassle.

----------Warning! Only conjecture, opinions and insults below this line!-------------

He is a child, despite his ENORMOUSLY inflated ego, his grandest accomplishment is making a single game that is nothing more than "solidly good". This entire thing is not just about him getting abuse, he might be fine with the abuse if it came with compensation, what he really wants is for people to hold him aloft and declare him so kind of great visionary and genius, and because people aren't doing it, and because he is unwilling to change his attitude to see if it might help, he has decided to do one final, spiteful act of vengeance. But like any spoiled child who has run to his room after yelling at his mother because he didn't get any candy, he will eventually come crawling back, spouting meek, insincere apologies and begging everyone to take him back.

And I, for one, hope he stays away, he doesn't deserve recognition, and he doesn't deserve the attention he has gotten.

Thanks for this episode, Jim. It needed to be said. Especially after I read some of the spiteful comments in the original article about this event here on the Escapist.

I admit, I don't know the guy (Fish, that is), and I'm not particulary interested in his games either.
But even if I did, and even if I considered him the epitome of douchebaggery, I still would never send hate his way.

Why?

Because I know what being hated on feels like, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
And even though I can think up viable reasons as to why people are doing it, deep down I still can still never understand them.

And thats just from ONE source.

Imagine receiving it from thousands.

Somehow, I don't think it gets any easier.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

It's worth pointing out that Kevin Smith threw the mother of all hissy fits when critics tore Cop Out apart, yet was happy to ride the critical buzz of Clerks, Chasing Amy and all his other View Askewniverse films for all it was worth.

Artists are not wilting daisies. They don't need to be kept locked away where the nasty people of the world can't hurt them. They don't need special treatment. They're normal people, and at the end of the day, if they fuck up then they deserve a metaphorical arse-kicking just like anyone else.

If you do nothing but encourage an artist, you simply end up enabling them to produce whatever meaningless piffle they feel entitled to. The Star Wars prequels came about because people did nothing but encourage George Lucas.

Discourage an artist, criticise him, and you give him a challenge to overcome. Critics ripped the shit out of Cop Out. And you know what Smith did? He then went and made Red Tape, his best film in years.

curious, did you mean red state

i looked damn everywhere and couldn't find any information on red tape, as i wanted to watch the movie that is supposed to be good and by kevin smith.

although i do agree on this opinion, if you don't challenge and question an "artist", then their work has a higher chance of being meaningless junk. Plus people need to get it under their skin that opinions will come at you left and right no matter what you do in life, learn to observe and absorb if deemed necessary.

Kudos on showing a modicum of support for M. Poisson.
Pity you couldn't address the lack of professionalism demonstrated by your contemporary in the first instance... or would that perhaps cut a little too deeply, hmmm?

I think it's no coincidence that what you said towards the end, Jim, is pretty much EXACTLY what I said on Destructoid and here on the Escapist. I'm glad to see we're on the same page.

I just took a lot of what Fish said as jokes, the "boycott harder, nerds" comment for instance when Fez was released on Steam. I saw a lot of angry comments after that one. How that could offend anyone is beyond me.

Not only that, but Fish probably doesn't see himself as a company or a public figure, so being forced into that position without knowing how to handle it can be rough.

MCerberus:
My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

That about sums it up. It wasn't that he got a lot of crap from gamers, it was that he stirred up a lot of crap and then complained when some of it hit him in the face.

I tend to get pushed away by people like Phil Fish, and his personal actions and communication went a very long way towards convincing me to avoid his game. Should developers' personalities have that much of an influence over their product's perception? That's probably a larger discussion for another time.

MCerberus:
My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

Summed up nicely mate. Seems to me Jim is ignoring the fact Phil Fish acted like a knob head as if somehow all this abuse and hate he was getting was because of objective opinions. No, he was trying to get a rise out of people. He made disgusting comments right up until his demise. Good riddance.

Im not surprised Fish lost it.

A large amount of the anonymous troll hordes that throw feces at people from the safety of their computers are complete and utter scum.

Deal with that bile day in day out and you'll snap too.

I don't really know much about Mr Fish of the journalist in question other than they got into a pissing contest.

I did however really like your comment Jim on the whole 'thick skin' comment and how it may not have been that the final comment was all that bad, only that it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

In dealing with the public in general that can be so true. The first asshole threatening your person or family you can deal with, fair enough. The second, the third, no problem. The fourth may get some verbal back in kind, the fifth, the sixth....by the time fifty fifth person turns around and may just simply call you a 'faggot' you may be fit to do murder.

Patience really is finite and nobody ever considers what the other person in an interchange has undergone previously.

gmaverick019:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Discourage an artist, criticise him, and you give him a challenge to overcome. Critics ripped the shit out of Cop Out. And you know what Smith did? He then went and made Red Tape, his best film in years.

although i do agree on this opinion, if you don't challenge and question an "artist", then their work has a higher chance of being meaningless junk. Plus people need to get it under their skin that opinions will come at you left and right no matter what you do in life, learn to observe and absorb if deemed necessary.

I was actually about to say something myself, but you beat me to it, gmaverick. I will say this much though: never discourage a person from creating. But by all means, please criticize them, question them, challenge them, inspire them to get better. There are few things in this world that require the same amount of passion as modern-day liberal arts, and if you active discourage a person from creating and tell them to go kill themselves (extreme, I know), he or she just might.

Or maybe I'm tripping. I don't believe that the "You suck" method of reinforcement is a very good teaching tool, that's for fuck's sure.

MrBoBo:

MCerberus:
My problem isn't with Fish needing a thicker skin.
I just have no sympathy because every time I heard him make a statement, he's acting like a ponce.

Summed up nicely mate. Seems to me Jim is ignoring the fact Phil Fish acted like a knob head as if somehow all this abuse and hate he was getting was because of objective opinions. No, he was trying to get a rise out of people. He made disgusting comments right up until his demise. Good riddance.

Be that as it may, it still does negate the fact that scores of people are both sides seem to do nothing but spew massive vitriol over the slightest thing they don't like. For fuck's sake, there's a news story about one of the members of BlOps2's development team getting very similar threats and insults simply because he was trying the game a little more fair for everyone.

Fish may be a jackass of the highest caliber, but come on. Wishing death upon him for that is just silly. And I'm not even gonna try and play the white knight here; as far as I'm concerned, CliffyB can go fuck himself, but that's where my anger ends. I don't want him dead... maybe a roundhouse to the temple, but that's about it.

By all means, if you don't like Fish, continue to not like him; I'm not trying to tell you otherwise. But actively wishing death on someone who honestly doesn't deserve it is just mean[1].

Edit: Jacked up my syntax up there. Fixed it so it made proper sense.

[1] I'm not saying that you or the person you quoted are making death threats. I'm simply making a general statement on the matter.

Never heard of this Phil Fish guy before. I do however have to wonder why he even cares (cared?) what people thinks (thought?) of him and what he does (did?).

Which reminds me, you used to be somewhat arrogant and self-centered Jim... well, that was atleast the impression I got when I first watched one of your videos quite some time ago. That luckely changed at some point, and now you seem much more like a normal human being who actually has som interesting stuff worth listening to.

Anyway, most comments on the internet aren't worth reading, and even fever are worth remembering... my own included.

rhizhim:
this is one of the rare occassions where i can agree with jim.

mobbing, even against the most evil and/or douchiest kind of people isn't justified.

DVS BSTrD:
This is why I DON'T go on twitter.

that applies to all of the internet.

dicks will be dicks.

maybe we should create a decency or shame module for internet users....

I have two issues with this proposed policy. One basically goes along the lines of "muh free speech". I don't think anyone should be censored or shamed for having the wrong opinion, or saying it in the wrong way. The second is the recent uprising of trolls. First of all, let me get this rant about the word "troll" in. No, troll does NOT mean "somebody I don't like". No, it does NOT mean "somebody who doesn't like me". No, it does NOT mean "A rude person" or "A racist person" or "A bigoted person. A troll is someone who intentionally acts stupid, hateful, or in some other unpopular manor to provoke a funny reaction. Now, on with my post. I can't tell you how often I see people on YouTube and Reddit naively respond seriously to obvious trolls. Someone will go to any random gaming video or thread, and say something along the lines of "lolol so gey le call of dute modern warfare is better fags", obvious stuff that wouldn't last an hour on any respectable forum, but it still gets bombarded with people trying to debate him, or insult him, or act fanboyish, which is exactly what they want! By adopting this "decency or shame" policy, we'd be opening the door for opportunistic trolls to abuse it by intentionally acting indecent around people who act in an immature or funnily intelligent way. The kid (and the more-than-likely like-minded people he associates with) to try to shame him according to policy, so they'll trip all over their own feet, giving the troll the amusement he originally sought. All in all, not a good idea at all if you ask me.

Phil Fish made a game called Fez. I did not care for it very much. I thought it was alright at best, not much else I can say about it. It was enjoyable enough, but nothing to write home about. I'd give it maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10. I enjoyed it enough to where I wasn't going online to complain about it, or insult its creator, and if I'd ever met Phil Fish I probably would have told him that I thought he'd made a pretty good game and shake his hand. I harbored no ill will towards the man, wished him good luck in his career. I really had very few negative things to say about him or his game.

Now obviously the entire internet isn't like me, but I'm willing to guess this is how a LOT of gamers would feel if Fish had just been known as "the guy who made Fez."

But then one day I see one of his tweets where without any provocation, without any reason, just because it's something that popped into his head that he felt was important enough for his thousands of followers to read... (I'm paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to look up the actual quote)

"Anybody who is still buying Nintendo hardware is either socially underdeveloped or emotionally stunted. Or both."

...Now that's just kind of a mean thing to say. If he doesn't like Nintendo consoles, that's fine, but why feel the need to suddenly insult so many people so gratuitously?

This developer who I don't know, and who certainly doesn't know me just said that I had social and/or emotional problems based solely on the fact that I was looking forward to Shin Megami Tensei IV or Ace Attorney Dual Destinies, and I like my 3DS.

I would never go as far as to send death threats or tell him to kill himself. I personally hate that right now we seem to be in a community where the vast majority of us think that's no big deal and is just "talkin' smack."

But hey, this guy just said something that wasn't directed at me personally, but was clearly talking about someone like me that insulted me, and I don't thinks so unreasonable that I get offended by that and maybe want to say he's being an asshole.

If Phil Fish didn't want people to call him an asshole, maybe he shouldn't have insulted so many people so needlessly. I know that as someone in the spotlight in this community, there's no way to eliminate all of the random abuse from total strangers, but I think most of here can agree there is a lot that Fish himself could have done to prevent a fairly large amount of it.

If people are going to egg you in the street, maybe wear a poncho. Don't leave the poncho at home and start yelling that the people who aren't throwing eggs probably throw like sissies and think that won't backfire on you...

Also off topic, but have there been any articles in this whole debacle with the headline "Beer Battered Fish." because that's all I can ever think about when I hear about this stuff >_>

SageRuffin:

gmaverick019:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Discourage an artist, criticise him, and you give him a challenge to overcome. Critics ripped the shit out of Cop Out. And you know what Smith did? He then went and made Red Tape, his best film in years.

although i do agree on this opinion, if you don't challenge and question an "artist", then their work has a higher chance of being meaningless junk. Plus people need to get it under their skin that opinions will come at you left and right no matter what you do in life, learn to observe and absorb if deemed necessary.

I was actually about to say something myself, but you beat me to it, gmaverick. I will say this much though: never discourage a person from creating. But by all means, please criticize them, question them, challenge them, inspire them to get better. There are few things in this world that require the same amount of passion as modern-day liberal arts, and if you active discourage a person from creating and tell them to go kill themselves (extreme, I know), he or she just might.

Or maybe I'm tripping. I don't believe that the "You suck" method of reinforcement is a very good teaching tool, that's for fuck's sure.

very true, there is a right and a wrong way going about things, and many people (in a trollish manner) take the latter rather than former, and death threats are pretty fucking extreme/beyond what is needed to get your opinion across. hell at my work we openly criticize each other all the time, but we still function amazingly because we don't act like a ponce about it, this is something critics/fans/devs and hell even pubs need to realize.

Can pretty much be expanded to everyone on the internet.

As for Fish, I don't know the whole story, I only know his previous words and actions in the past. The man is a smug, self-righteous, antagonistic prick. He believes himself above the common people (whether or not this is true in reality is up for debate, but judged primarily through his words and actions, it certainly is true on the internet) and has consistently been abrasive to anyone that doesn't bow to him.

But he's still human. He needs to be given some PR education, or at the very least told to keep his mouth shut, and he likely needs to have some therapy for his attitude. Perhaps investigate the likelihood that he has a mental illness of some type. Either way, the backlash to Fish is both well deserved and over the top.

Fish taking a break is a good thing. Fish leaving the industry is not. People bad-mouthing Fish is going to happen, since he's painted a giant target on himself in the past, but acting like a spoiled child isn't going to endear himself to the world. Give him some help on dealing with his position, and then let him get back to doing what he's good at: making games.

Who cares how fish quit and what made him quit ? All the rage is about him being a d1ck to others over ze internetz.

You know which developer has a loud mouth, isn't afraid to speak his mind, and didn't quit because of it?

David Jaffe.

The difference is, Jaffe always framed his opinions as opinions, not statements. Jaffe never went out and kicked the hornet's nest (at least, as far as I remember.)

And Jaffe never went into forums and called the customers nerds who fail at making any kind of difference.

Jim, you're a cool guy. I couldn't even imagine someone insulting you....

Legion:

Some people are simply incapable of the introspection required to notice it, or are surrounded by like minded individuals to the point where that kind of behaviour seems normal. So when they get it pointed out to them they get defensive, because they cannot see what they are doing wrong.

I think a lot of this is down to the internet still being in it's "infancy". People haven't really evolved a proper etiquette for speaking to people online like we do in reality. As such people are much more likely to be a lot ruder than they would be to be people face to face.

I quoted you because yours was the first post in the thread that seemed both reasonable and empathic.

I personally have suffered a great amount of bullying, both in cyberspace and in the real world. I find that in my opinion it doesn't so much come down to online etiquette, rather then that it is even easier to get away with things. People bully other people to feel better about themselves and their insecurities, often when confronted with how much they hurt the other person they will blow it off by saying he's being a whino or a baby. They don't see anything wrong with their behavior. Real or virtual. You can probably draw conclusions from people's reactions in even this topic, about who is prone to cyber-bullying.

I know for a fact though that people don't blow up, and stop doing the thing they love if they are not dealing with some serious pain. That most people online will call him more names rather then empathize with this, is sad to me.

I don't agree with what he said about hoping the other guy committing suicide and I sincerely hope that when he calms down he will apologize for this.

Remember that it is easy to judge others while we can never have any clue of what they are really going through.

Kind regards

Glad to hear someone making this point, even if I personally dislike Phil Fish.

Still, I think it's less of a "thick skin" thing and more the fact that Phil Fish was one of those people who felt that he needed to fight back against internet assholes and decided that the best way to do that was to be an asshole on the internet. I sympathize with him more than the idiots sending him death threats, but I don't sympathize with him much. I think he's being rather over-dramatic with quitting the whole industry over it, but I think it goes more to show how awful gamers can be than it shows anything about Phil.

Even if I don't have much respect or admiration for the man, I'm hoping he'll be able to turn around and get the resolve to return to the industry.

ciasteczkowyp:
Who cares how fish quit and what made him quit ? All the rage is about him being a d1ck to others over ze internetz.

He quite because a veritable shit-ton of people were being "d1cks" to him over "ze internetz". Let's not try to totally dehumanize someone because he tends to be an asshole. He had a career in game development and he left because of the sheer amount of harassment he was getting. Even if he acted like a total scumbag sometimes - and he did - I still think it's really sad to see something like this happen.

Jimothy Sterling:
I specifically said in the video I *wasn't* taking sides. This was purely about the assertion that Phil is weak or thin-skinned for leaving the industry. It wasn't about him vs. Marcus. I like the pair of them.

I think Marcus misstepped when he turned a criticism of Blow/Fish's attitudes into personal insults. I think Phil misstepped when he reacted to it the way he did. I think the pair of them wasted what could have been a lovely Saturday making each other and themselves feel bad, and I hope they both continue to do the things they love, with less of the things they hate.

This is completely unrelated, but I just wanted to say that I always end up reading what you write in your voice and accent, with all the little pauses and inflections. I find it endearing and just a bit strange, lol.

People don't think he should have a "thicker skin" because he makes games. People think he should have a thicker skin because he's an infamous ass who dished out just as much as he took. I realize he gets poked at a lot, but I believe people shouldn't cause more trouble then they are willing to receive. That said, Fish's skin should have been infinitely-thick. If there is one thing that I cannot stand, it's someone acting dickish to just about everyone, but also expecting to be handled delicately in returned. That, to me, comes off as an individual who feels they deserve to live a privileged life. Even if he didn't instigate this particular squabble, the guy was far from a saint. Your constant use of the word "abuse" makes me feel you are (perhaps subconsciously) attempting to paint him as a victim in all this, maybe even because what he has endured seems so similar to your situation. It's not though.

Jim, I feel for you. You might get under some people's skin, and you might have gotten a LOT of hate for that, but everyone you've spoken badly about was certainly calling for it. More often then not, you are speaking up for the little guy; the person who can't defend themselves that well. Fish on the other hand, he'd happily stomp his foot on that same demographic.


I'm sorry, but we're supposed to feel bad for this guy? This is the guy who was "abused" by the internet...? I mean, hell, I even agree with what they elaborated on later in that video, but the way they initially answered... holy shit. The pointing and laughing, the smugness and the general lack of humanity in all this was staggering. That poor bastard who asked the question probably didn't even fully understand what was happening, it was obvious he understood very little English. Rather then use any kind of tact or consideration, they saw his fumbling over English words as a weakness and attacked him as brutally as possible, in front of a crowd of people and cameras no less. Fish and his friends made themselves out to be the most despicable kinds of human beings, and I actually applaud the internet for showing him the same kind of empathy in return. It's called Karma.

It's a product of over-saturation of communication.

Whereas before, only the truly dedicated to praise or criticism could comment, now it's widely available to everyone. Since it takes less effort to comment, people put less effort into the comment.

So when you look at all the insults and criticisms thrown your way, you need to remember, that most people left their brains behind once they clicked the 'Post reply' button.

With that in mind, I will make sure that my own brain in engaged whenever I post a comment, and not get caught up in the delirium of communication intoxication.

xPixelatedx:
-Snip-

I think this is a case of "an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" here. Except it ends with the whole world being assholes to each other. If we're not going to act like he was a victim, we certainly can't act as if the people threatening to rape and murder his family were justified. Yes, he was an asshole. Yes, people were assholes to him. Is there karma for them? If that is in the form of people being assholes, will those people have karma after them?

Phil Fish certainly was not a nice man, I will not deny that. He seems like he was awful to a lot of people, but then it seems that many more people were much, much worse to him. He was a victim here, but he wasn't the only victim and he wasn't only a victim. The comments he made were not justified, nor was the sheer magnitude of hate he received. I won't deny that he was in the wrong, but the people insulting and threatening him certainly aren't in the right.

Jim talked about Phil Fish in an earlier episode of the Jimquisiton as well. It basically talked about how Mr. Fish said some not-so-nice things about Japanese game developers, and Jim was talking about how, for some people, that might effect some players views on Fez, regardless of the actual content in Fez. Now, this feels like a less extreme example of "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!" And, well, yeah, I can totally understand that. Speaking for myself, I totally would not be able to handle all the vile comments and insults thrown at me. For some people, ignoring or dismissing this kind of stuff is easy, but for others, it's not. And I think those who tell Phil Fish and the like to "grow up" or "deal with it" are really being insensitive of the matter. Sensitive... Now there's something the gaming community seems as far away from being as ever!

I don't really know much about Fish and haven't seen what's been going on to drive such a spirited narrative, but unless Mr. Fish was the only one working on Fez 2 I think he's being incredibly selfish by putting a bunch of people out of work (friends and co-workers no less). If people were harassing him that badly a better response would be to lock down his online presence and take an extended vacation.

All assuming that this threat to stop Fez 2 is actually true. I find it hard to believe one person could make that decision in even a small company with no one else being able to do anything about it.

This was pretty much what I was thinking when I found out about Phill's drama. I'd also like to point out that when a company like EA or Activision gets criticized there aren't really hard feelings even for the people who work for it because it's a huge company with millions of dollars. However someone like Fish is one man who stands alone against this sort of thing. But hey Fez is on GOG so I guess he has the same opinion on DRM as I do, I hope he gets back into it and I think he will in the end.

FloodOne:
You know which developer has a loud mouth, isn't afraid to speak his mind, and didn't quit because of it?

David Jaffe.

The difference is, Jaffe always framed his opinions as opinions, not statements. Jaffe never went out and kicked the hornet's nest (at least, as far as I remember.)

And Jaffe never went into forums and called the customers nerds who fail at making any kind of difference.

And Jaffe, the asshat he is, has never tried to frame himself as a poor innocent victim.

To my knowledge, anyway. I can't say as I pay him much mind.

Necromancer Jim:

ciasteczkowyp:
Who cares how fish quit and what made him quit ? All the rage is about him being a d1ck to others over ze internetz.

He quite because a veritable shit-ton of people were being "d1cks" to him over "ze internetz". Let's not try to totally dehumanize someone because he tends to be an asshole. He had a career in game development and he left because of the sheer amount of harassment he was getting. Even if he acted like a total scumbag sometimes - and he did - I still think it's really sad to see something like this happen.

I wouldn't say I'm dehumanising him, but I can't feel bad that someone who could dish it out but not take it left a business which is the only reason people paid attention to him in the first place. If he had ragequit from Twitter in other circumstances, nobody would care. Similarly, I don't see why differing circumstances don't make for different results. A guy who wades into fight after fight like your typical keyboard warrior should expect more flak than someone whose only crime is making games. The rage over the CoD nerf is directed at someone who probably wasn't even solely responsible for the change people hate. Blowfish's comments are the direct source for the hatred he gets. He strikes me as the internet version of Gollum--a sad little creature who is more than happy to be an evil little shit until he bites off more than he can chew, and then ERMAGERD, TAKE PITY ON POAR MISRUBLE Gollum Ghurgee Blowfish!

By way of example, I read a story about a white dude who got knocked out recently by a black dude. The white guy got up in a black couple's face, saying that "niggers" like them were why he lost his job. He got his ass knocked out for his trouble. Now, maybe the guy deserves some pity. He was an unemployed man drunk off his ass, but then, what is the expectation when you aggressively get in someone's face?

At the very least, let me phrase it this way: why does he deserve better behaviour than he himself displays?

Captcha: laugh at me. Odds are, I deserve it, so go ahead.

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